Author Topic: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain  (Read 757043 times)

Offline Jookie

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3320 on: November 6, 2019, 09:30:26 am »
Ox saying that he's not pressing at the intensity that's required just yet, which is why I don't imagine he'll play against City from the get go

I think you can almost see this in his performances this season. His best games have come against teams of slightly lesser quality when the pace isn't quite as high.

In saying all that, his current performances are promising. A lot of the good things we've seen in the last few months are the good things we saw in Jan-Mar 2018.

Think it'll be after Xmas at the earliest before we see the very best of AOC. In the meantime he'll be a good rotational option and an impact sub in other games. Hopefully in the New Year we'll see him push for a more regular starting place.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3321 on: November 6, 2019, 09:35:33 am »
Thought last night was his best performance since coming back. MOM for me - felt like a massive leap forward for him. The City game might still be a little too much for him too soon, but you never know - sure he will play some part in it.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3322 on: November 6, 2019, 09:36:01 am »
Interesting to note that he was playing firmino's role last night..

In the first half. Played left wing in the second with Salah through the middle.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3323 on: November 6, 2019, 09:37:49 am »
Still perplexed how he only scored 20 career goals across 200 appearances for Arsenal. Mind you his record in the league for us isn't much cop either yet.

He was played as a winger at Arsenal and kept away from the goal. In hindsight, that seems madness. Klopp and his staff didn't have the hindsight we have now, they just figured it out and changed his position to suit his skill-set.

Offline royhendo

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3324 on: November 6, 2019, 09:54:06 am »
Nice looking back at Babu’s o.p. in that regard eh?
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Offline MD1990

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3325 on: November 6, 2019, 10:25:47 am »
He has made some return from the awful injury he had.

Pace is as good as ever & is looks a goal threat was very close againt Villa & Man Utd too.
Improving with every game.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3326 on: November 6, 2019, 10:30:12 am »
Amazing he’s not long turned 26, seems to have been around for absolutely years.

Continues to make a great comeback from some horrific injuries. Offers shooting from outside the box with the sort of accuracy we don’t seem to have from our midfielders. Continues like this and must be making a shout for a starting spot.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3327 on: November 6, 2019, 10:31:39 am »
He was played as a winger at Arsenal and kept away from the goal. In hindsight, that seems madness. Klopp and his staff didn't have the hindsight we have now, they just figured it out and changed his position to suit his skill-set.

It was more that he was moved around as a 'versatile' player to play RWB, LW, RW and CM - since Arsenal were playing 4-2-3-1 instead of the 4-3-3 we see Liverpool play at the moment which allows the midfielders to do more around the goal.  He did always strike the ball cleanly mind you.  Think also part of it is that Liverpool's system is designed around moving the ball quickly and counter-attacks, having fast players create space and  exploit it - whereas at the time he was playing for AFC it was more short passing, possession based tapping it about.  He kept on saying he wanted to play CM as it was 'his best position', and always managed to hold the ball decently well, but never managed to do a lot when he got a chance due to having a shaky defensive game - something he's been improving over the last season or two it seems.  Him losing his man at the near post was something I remember him doing a lot (letting players run and not seeing it until too late), but his all-energy style of game really works at Liverpool far better than it ever did at Arsenal where positioning was more important than athleticism.

Offline gjr1

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3328 on: November 6, 2019, 10:32:59 am »
I’d like to see him start against city but if he’s not quite ready then he’s not ready
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Offline cheshiremike

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3329 on: November 6, 2019, 10:57:47 am »
Fantastic player.

Only midfielder we have who will get 10+ goals in a season for us.

Only midfielder who will shoot outside of the box also.

If he wasn't injured last year I think he would of made a difference in the games we drew.

Also missed him in champions league final against RM.

Offline Bolrick

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3330 on: November 6, 2019, 11:23:59 am »
When coutinho was here, he was the one shooting outside the box most of the times.

Well ....with Ox, we have that option back.
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Offline newterp

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3331 on: November 6, 2019, 12:10:03 pm »
I think you can almost see this in his performances this season. His best games have come against teams of slightly lesser quality when the pace isn't quite as high.

In saying all that, his current performances are promising. A lot of the good things we've seen in the last few months are the good things we saw in Jan-Mar 2018.

Think it'll be after Xmas at the earliest before we see the very best of AOC. In the meantime he'll be a good rotational option and an impact sub in other games. Hopefully in the New Year we'll see him push for a more regular starting place.

For sure - it's giving us an option against "lesser" teams (let's face it - everyone raised their game against us this season) and allowing for some needed rotation. Now if we can Naby to keep building on his two Genk performances as well (and Lallana too) - we have some very solid midfield rotation available.

Offline iRed

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3332 on: November 6, 2019, 12:12:19 pm »
Surely he has to start against City?

Offline Jookie

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3333 on: November 6, 2019, 12:19:51 pm »
Surely he has to start against City?

Why? Based on 2 games against Genk and 1 against Arsenal's ressies? I find the assertion that he has to start a bit weird in the context of how we are doing this season.

I'm not disparaging AOC here. Said before he's done well. But so have Henderson and Wijnaldum against much, much better opposition.

It's a much bigger risk playing AOC against City than Henderson and/or Wijnaldum. I also like the idea of someone like AOC (and Origi) being able to come on and run at their tiring defence. Whether that's us trying to force a goal or looking to counter.

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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3334 on: November 6, 2019, 12:24:28 pm »
Why? Based on 2 games against Genk and 1 against Arsenal's ressies? I find the assertion that he has to start a bit weird in the context of how we are doing this season.

I'm not disparaging AOC here. Said before he's done well. But so have Henderson and Wijnaldum against much, much better opposition.

It's a much bigger risk playing AOC against City than Henderson and/or Wijnaldum. I also like the idea of someone like AOC (and Origi) being able to come on and run at their tiring defence. Whether that's us trying to force a goal or looking to counter.

Yeah, I think Klopp will go for his tried and tested midfield yet again as he has always done in the big games.

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3335 on: November 6, 2019, 12:28:00 pm »
It's only a risk considering his injuries and him not being 100% just yet. He started in both legs in the quarterfinal against them as well as the league game when we won 4-3.

Offline Nick110581

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3336 on: November 6, 2019, 12:35:27 pm »
Lovely to see this lad back and looking sharp.

He is a genuinely nice lad and talks really well.

I would start him behind Bobby in a ten with Gini and Fab sitting more.

The game is massive but he could be the difference.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3337 on: November 6, 2019, 12:37:22 pm »
He is just a great option. A player that not only takes on shots from outside the box, but gets them on target a lot. Exactly what is needed against a defensive wall we often see.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3338 on: November 6, 2019, 12:39:18 pm »
Lovely to see this lad back and looking sharp.

He is a genuinely nice lad and talks really well.

I would start him behind Bobby in a ten with Gini and Fab sitting more.

The game is massive but he could be the difference.
Surely he'd be occyping the areas Firmino likes to work in.

If he's going to start it will be in midfield but this game is a massive step up from anyhting he's played so far. Our pressing and shape needs to be spot-on from the start.
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Offline Nick110581

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3339 on: November 6, 2019, 12:41:09 pm »
Surely he'd be occyping the areas Firmino likes to work in.

If he's going to start it will be in midfield but this game is a massive step up from anyhting he's played so far. Our pressing and shape needs to be spot-on from the start.

They would interchange. Would cause havoc with their defence.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3340 on: November 6, 2019, 12:43:36 pm »
This was the o.p. It highlights his similarity to certain other players in impact, but underlines that goal scoring is the lacking ingredient. Safe to say that skillsets are fluid. :)

The next bit was really interesting.

Look at players in terms of a skillset rather than production. For a team to be effective, it needs a healthy mix of a variety of skillsets. For me, the most crucial one is players that can operate in tight spaces, offer penetration and an ability to destabilise a low block. We have lots of players who can score goals. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Sturridge, Origi, Solanke, Ings, Gini, Lallana, Coutinho - they all look good for 7+ goals per season. However, in terms of players who can link the front 3 to the rest of our team in a low block, we have Lallana, Coutinho then who?

...Thus we end up needing to go around the block everytime ...but the second your attacks have a  distinctive pattern, you are easy to stop as we demonstrated with Lukaku above.

Oxlade Chamberlain is something we don't have. A Lallana/Coutinho type player with that penetration in midfield coupled with pace. It is that little burst of pace that makes Coutinho more effective than Lallana in terms of playing through the lines of a team. Lallana has the skills to beat people but not really to then burn away from them ...he still has that skillset we are sorely lacking in, and a unique approach to it that we lack. Keita offers that same skillset (and a fuckload of others) also. We need to add as many players as we can like this into our squad rather than finding reasons to just dismiss them, talk about signing DM's, more goalscorers, etc. Those things will not dictate how effective we are in the league. Our ability to break down a low block will. As Pep showed last season, and throughout his career, there are certain types of players who will help you in this pursuit. They look a lot like Chamberlain.

His rankings in each column of the table below are drawn from his time at Arsenal. It'd be interesting to contrast that with his time since he arrived here. He was already near the top of the charts on each column highlighted before Jurgen got a hold of him, and doing that while spending a lot of his time at wing back and so forth. Arsenal used to stockpile players in the positions where we use him now.


Part 2 - Can he unlock sides with creative passing?

I want to show the statistical output of Arsenal & Liverpool players in terms of their creative passing.

Key Passes(KP)/90 = This shows the number of goalscoring chances created per 90 minutes played. A goalscoring chance ranges from laying the ball off for a Coutinho shot 35 yards out or Firmino's cross to Can against Hoffenheim. Both = 1 Key Pass
Expected Assists(xA)/90 = This is the value of all goalscoring chances created per 90 minutes played. Effectively this is the likelihood of creating a goal every 90 minutes played. Laying the ball off to Coutinho to score a 35 yard screaming = xA 0,01. Firmino's cross to Can = xA 0,91.
xA/KP = This is the average value of the chances a player creates. A high score can mean the chances a player creates a typically good goalscoring chances. E.g. Welbeck created the least chances on this list, however the very few he created were good goalscoring chances. This should be looked at in conjunction with KP/90.
Assists/90 = This is actual output. How many assists were created on average per game played.

Anybody scoring orange/red in most if not all categories is a player who is highly involved in the teams creative output. Anybody who is red in multiple categories is showing an elite output. Anybody scoring very high in one category and low not in any others is likely an outlier and can be dismissed.

Player      Key Passes(KP)/90    Expected Assists(xA)/90   xA/KP   Assists/90
Mesut Özil      2,88    0,26   0,09   0,28
Philippe Coutinho      2,33    0,25   0,11   0,28
Roberto Firmino      2,05   0,23   0,11   0,21
Alexis Sánchez      1,9    0,25   0,13   0,28
Sadio Mané      1,57    0,18   0,11   0,2
Daniel Sturridge      1,52   0,19  0,13   0,12
Jack Wilshere      1,48    0,13   0,09   0,09
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain     1,44    0,26   0,18   0,4
Alex Iwobi      1,42    0,14   0,1   0,18
Aaron Ramsey      1,39    0,32   0,23   0,29
Adam Lallana      1,34    0,16   0,12   0,27
Granit Xhaka      1,19    0,08   0,06   0,07
Jordan Henderson      1,19    0,11   0,09   0,17
Emre Can      1,18    0,08   0,07   0,08
Santiago Cazorla      1,16    0,12   0,1  0,29
Olivier Giroud      1,06    0,15   0,14   0,23
Georginio Wijnaldum      1,03   0,16   0,16   0,27
Divock Origi      0,8    0,1   0,12   0,19
Francis Coquelin      0,76    0,03   0,04   0
Theo Walcott      0,51    0,12   0,23   0,09
Mohamed Elneny      0,39    0,02   0,04   0,13
Danny Welbeck      0,36    0,14   0,39   0,24


Also wanted to show Dribbling on it's own because it's usually the most important element to breaking down a low block.

Player      Dribbles/90
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain         3,51   
Alexis Sánchez         3,04   
Philippe Coutinho         2,81   
Sadio Mané         2,73   
Jack Wilshere         2,72   
Roberto Firmino         2,02   
Daniel Sturridge         1,99   
Theo Walcott         1,92   
Alex Iwobi         1,72   
Aaron Ramsey         1,46   
Santiago Cazorla         1,31   
Adam Lallana         1,27   
Divock Origi         1,17   
Mesut Özil         1,01   
Georginio Wijnaldum         0,91   
Francis Coquelin         0,91   
Emre Can         0,8   
Granit Xhaka         0,69   
Mohamed Elneny         0,39   
Danny Welbeck         0,36   
Jordan Henderson         0,21   
Olivier Giroud         0,15   

So, statistically speaking, he is perfect for our system in that Lallana/Coutinho role. Or in a wide forward role as a creative hub rather than a goalscorer. Which is fine as we have fucking tonnes of players who can finish.

Apart from he's now scoring goals. I think we can see now what Babu was hinting at.


Summary
I like him.

I want to be clear though, I am not saying he is like, or a replacement for, Coutinho. I was demonstrating how he is a FAR more well rounded player than people give him credit for and closer to the level of Coutinho in that regard than the likes of Ibe or Barkley that have been trotted out as comparisons of "other shite English players".

They look nothing alike in terms of how they play when you watch them, however, the net result in terms of what they provide on the pitch in terms of breaking through the lines, playing in tight spaces, committing players in a low block, and creating good goal scoring chances for team mates are very similar.

He is obviously not without his weaknesses but then that is true of all players. We aren't trying to sign a 24 year old Steven Gerrard here. It's just a player with a skillset we need that is sorely lacking so far this season who will be useful for us to have going forward. He could grow into much more for Klopp, in the way Kevin Großkreutz did at Dortmund as a versatile player who was used more often than not. Who knows. It should be fun finding out with more meep meep than ever before in this side.

It really was a nice post this one.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3341 on: November 6, 2019, 12:45:27 pm »
They would interchange. Would cause havoc with their defence.
It would get congested, Firmino likes to drop in-between the lines and Salah and Mane make diagonal runs into the space he's created. If AOC is swapping posaitions with Firmino when he drops deep, it doesn't give Salah or Mane the space to run into.
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Offline Nick110581

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3342 on: November 6, 2019, 12:50:30 pm »
It would get congested, Firmino likes to drop in-between the lines and Salah and Mane make diagonal runs into the space he's created. If AOC is swapping posaitions with Firmino when he drops deep, it doesn't give Salah or Mane the space to run into.

Well, I would play him.

He offers a spark.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3343 on: November 6, 2019, 01:28:56 pm »
When Klopp said in the summer that it's a like a new signing having him back, I didn't really see his point then. The more I watch, the more I'm getting it. Come after Christmas I genuinely think he'll be competing for a place in the first team midfield.

I think this Man City game will have come too soon for a starting position, great option to have off the bench if we're struggling to break them down.
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Offline Dubred

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3344 on: November 6, 2019, 01:34:34 pm »
Well, I would play him.

He offers a spark.

Think given how he naturally tires during the game after his long absence, that spark is ideal later in the game if we need it.

Offline Samie

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3345 on: November 6, 2019, 01:52:33 pm »
Ox should start against the blue mancs on Sunday.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3346 on: November 6, 2019, 01:58:56 pm »
Ox should start against the blue mancs on Sunday.

Don't think so. He already himself has admitted his pressing isn't up to the required standard, and pressing this City side will be essential on both ends of the pitch. We don't necessarily need to have him in this game as City aren't going to park the bus.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3347 on: November 6, 2019, 01:59:51 pm »
Pfft! No one told you to make sensible remarks.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3348 on: November 6, 2019, 02:02:58 pm »
Pfft! No one told you to make sensible remarks.

Go do the draft you lazy fcker!  ;D

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3349 on: November 6, 2019, 02:39:43 pm »
Has scored more CL goals than Eden Hazard.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3350 on: November 7, 2019, 12:05:54 am »
His current season feels very similar to his first season. Playing and scoring in Europe, getting regular sub appearances. 2 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league so far this season against 1 start and 7 sub appearances in that season. He started getting more starts around this point (after the November international break) so going by a similar timeline trajectory, if not City, then after the break he should be getting more league starts. He is very different from our other options in the fact that he has a proper shot on him, especially from distance which can be helpful in creating more disruption in deep teams. Really hope that he stays fit for a long time now because he'd be massive over the course of the season.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3351 on: November 7, 2019, 04:07:54 am »
Mate is a season ticket holder at Arsenal. Said he always thought Ox had the potential to be class but needed to be ‘man managed’ a bit more as that isn’t something Wenger would do

The man will excel under Klopp, it’s just a shame we had the unfortunate injuries inbetween

He’s an extremely likeable character as well and captain material, although our team is blessed with quite a few of them

Offline newterp

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3352 on: November 7, 2019, 02:07:11 pm »
been called up by England...ugh

Offline dudleyred

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3353 on: November 7, 2019, 02:20:47 pm »
been called up by England...ugh

Know what you mean but pleased for him

He’s old enough and experienced enough to look after himself and swerve training etc if he doesn’t feel right

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3354 on: November 7, 2019, 02:22:16 pm »
Good news.

He needs game time
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Offline tornado

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3355 on: November 7, 2019, 03:25:46 pm »
England call up should be good for his confidence as well..
And dont mind a couple of 30 min cameos..

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3356 on: November 7, 2019, 03:30:22 pm »
He was in the last England squad too

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3357 on: November 7, 2019, 03:39:35 pm »
He was in the last England squad too
He wasn’t was he?  He was in the one before that but not the last one...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3358 on: November 7, 2019, 03:48:04 pm »
I hope they'll use him sensibly.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #3359 on: November 7, 2019, 03:57:15 pm »
I hope they'll use him sensibly.

I hope they use him in the same role that Trent played in the last two England games.
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