Poll

Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1157549 times)

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #160 on: December 3, 2019, 10:48:44 pm »
In today’s political environment it’s not just the message the politicians are promoting – but whether anyone is listening.

We’ve convened our very own focus groups in a marginal Labour seat on the edge of  Birmingham – before Friday’s attack happened.

Our sample of voters was made up of people who voted for Brexit in the referendum and Labour at the last General Election – now targeted by the Tories.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Ry9SMUurM_k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Ry9SMUurM_k</a>

This video is too depressing for words. We are totally, utterly, irretrievably fucked.
Yes...

It is depressing.  Depressing because they’re so fundamentally wrong on many issues.

But also utterly depressing because it highlights just how important a strong leader is to those who don’t listen so much to the finer details of policy.

This is exactly why so many of us said Corbyn was a car crash form day one. 

And what will happen is that people will insult them, call them all sorts of names, totally ignore them and then elect another gibbering water of offal when labour lose the next election and Corbyn steps down.

I’m not saying these people are right, of course I’m not, but if you just poo poo what they say and vilify them then you deserve whats coming...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #161 on: December 3, 2019, 10:53:16 pm »
I know there was some debate regarding the BBC during this election campaign in the old thread, but this piece from Peter Oborne sums it up for me:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/election-coverage-bbc-tories
I put a link up to a study conducted in 2015 into how the press have gone for Corbyn big time in a now locked thread, but it was dismissed on here by someone as " yeah just like all other former Labour leaders", which of course is totally wrong considering Blair became somewhat of a darling to certain elements of the press. The fact is it is still going on with Corbyn and Boris is still getting away without being properly challenged, especially by the bbc which is odd considering the tory/bbc license fee debacle. It does make me wonder if some kind of deal has been struck whereby if the tories win they will suddenly revoke the over 70's tv license and the bbc won't take the hit for it.
« Last Edit: December 3, 2019, 10:56:58 pm by RF »

Offline TSC

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #162 on: December 3, 2019, 10:53:28 pm »
Sorry I wasn't being clear, I meant they would just ditch the WA and go back to No Deal as the default Brexit.

Agreed that as Brexit is basically the only thing the Tories are campaigning on in this election, it is obviously nearly impossible for them to concede too much ground on that issue.

Parliament ruled ‘no deal’ out recently though.  That was the driver behind the current brexit ‘deal’.  Otherwise the Tories would have let it slide to the default position of ‘no deal’. 

That parliamentary decision preventing ‘no deal’ may be overturned in the event of a majority Tory govt though (I’m not sure) although a big majority would be required. 

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #163 on: December 3, 2019, 11:00:19 pm »
And yet they're pretty comfortable with over 100,000 people directly dying because of Tory policy, more than 120,000 kids homeless at Christmas, the NHS being screwed into the floor, Police, Ambulances, Fire Services, Prisons, Hospitals, Schools, Teachers, Nurses, Doctors and all the rest being fucked off, underfunded and their businesses being given to rich mates so that they can make a profit?


Yeah they sound fucking wonderful mate.

Do you truly believe all Tory voters think like Dominic Raab or Duncan Smith though Andy?

I don’t.

"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline TSC

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #164 on: December 3, 2019, 11:01:25 pm »
In today’s political environment it’s not just the message the politicians are promoting – but whether anyone is listening.

We’ve convened our very own focus groups in a marginal Labour seat on the edge of  Birmingham – before Friday’s attack happened.

Our sample of voters was made up of people who voted for Brexit in the referendum and Labour at the last General Election – now targeted by the Tories.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Ry9SMUurM_k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Ry9SMUurM_k</a>

This video is too depressing for words. We are totally, utterly, irretrievably fucked.

I watched that last night on the news.  More of the ‘get brexit done’ rhetoric with not one iota as to what it means.  What made it worse was it was on ch4 news, so cant even discount it as usual ‘bbc vox pops’.  If it is representative of attitudes then only a miracle at the ballot box is preventing brexit (boris ‘deal’ or ‘no deal’) underpinned by 5 years of a hard right Tory govt.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #165 on: December 3, 2019, 11:05:00 pm »
I watched that last night on the news.  More of the ‘get brexit done’ rhetoric with not one iota as to what it means.  What made it worse was it was on ch4 news, so cant even discount it as usual ‘bbc vox pops’.  If it is representative of attitudes then only a miracle at the ballot box is preventing brexit (boris ‘deal’ or ‘no deal’) underpinned by 5 years of a hard right Tory govt.

The people in those focus groups are saying exactly the same things as the people in my pub and club down here in South Essex. Totally representative of their attitudes. I can't sway them, we need that miracle.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #166 on: December 3, 2019, 11:06:02 pm »
The people in those focus groups are saying exactly the same things as the people in my pub and club down here in South Essex. Totally representative of their attitudes. I can't sway them, we need that miracle.
This election is now too late.

We need to try something different.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #167 on: December 3, 2019, 11:06:27 pm »
Whatever he says, assume the opposite.
It shows just how these right wing politicians operate today.
Yorkopite posted something the other week about Trump and Johnson getting the same advice years ago.
Never apologise, deny everything. attack anyone who attacks you.
Am afraid it's working, absolute proof from Trumps own mouth only a few months ago saying the NHS will be part of any trade deal yet here is today saying where did this rumour even come from.

Posted a video yesterday similar. Brexit party MEP also saying roughly the same.

Brexit party MEP being interviewed by BBC, he says one of the biggest myths is the Brexit party wants to bring in a insurance based system for the NHS,  maybe he should have a chat with Frottage as thats exactly what he wants. video below.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/12/film-nigel-Frottage-insurance-based-nhs-private-companies
« Last Edit: December 3, 2019, 11:12:11 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #168 on: December 3, 2019, 11:12:28 pm »
A fair bit of talk around that the Tories having been relatively quiet so far are ready to massively increase their social media marketing for the last few days of the campaign.

Parliament ruled ‘no deal’ out recently though.  That was the driver behind the current brexit ‘deal’.  Otherwise the Tories would have let it slide to the default position of ‘no deal’. 

That parliamentary decision preventing ‘no deal’ may be overturned in the event of a majority Tory govt though (I’m not sure) although a big majority would be required. 

Unfortunately no Parliament can bind the hands of the next one, so a straight majority for No Deal in the New Parliament and it is very much back on the table (it is very possibly back on the table at the end of the transition period even if that doesn't happen)
« Last Edit: December 3, 2019, 11:14:35 pm by filopastry »

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #169 on: December 3, 2019, 11:20:00 pm »
Do you truly believe all Tory voters think like Dominic Raab or Duncan Smith though Andy?

I don’t.



They vote for what they vote for.

They are either ignorant or uncaring about what their voting decisions in life have caused this country and the people of this country.

It's like saying "Have you met Bill? He's a mass-murderer, but once a year he takes the kids out and buys them lollies.. He's a great guy.."
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #170 on: December 3, 2019, 11:38:57 pm »
A fair bit of talk around that the Tories having been relatively quiet so far are ready to massively increase their social media marketing for the last few days of the campaign.

Unfortunately no Parliament can bind the hands of the next one, so a straight majority for No Deal in the New Parliament and it is very much back on the table (it is very possibly back on the table at the end of the transition period even if that doesn't happen)

Yep that’s why the Tories were desperate for this election, despite Johnson’s lies suggesting otherwise.  I can understand why Labour and others agreed to it as power beckoned but thought at the time ‘don’t give the Tories their election’.  Leave them stuck in a brexit cul-de-sac.

There was a story on the news earlier regarding Arron Banks ‘social media’ army are already all over Twitter, Facebook, etc., which resonates with your point re social media marketing.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #171 on: December 3, 2019, 11:59:56 pm »
They vote for what they vote for.

They are either ignorant or uncaring about what their voting decisions in life have caused this country and the people of this country.

It's like saying "Have you met Bill? He's a mass-murderer, but once a year he takes the kids out and buys them lollies.. He's a great guy.."

No it isn’t - that’s reductio ad absurdum and you know it.

You admitted in the locked thread that despite despising Corbyn, you’ll be voting Labour. A poster who characterised many posters in here as centre-right got sarky at you and (probably) sealed the whole thread’s fate.

By the same token, many Tory voters don’t think like the ERG nutters. Nor would they see the examples of Tory callousness you outlined in your previous post as the fault of the Tories.

You can blame that on them, their newspaper, the telly, their upbringing, Corbyn or whatever. My belief is that the majority of Tory voters are not as despicable and uncaring as you believe.

And my biggest regret about the current state of British politics is it’s polarisation. As I said elsewhere, General Elections used to be a choice between centre-right and centre-left. Now it’s Hobson’s choice.

"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #172 on: December 4, 2019, 12:33:51 am »
'Nor would they see the examples of Tory callousness you outlined in your previous post as the fault of the Tories.' so whose fault would they see it as?

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #173 on: December 4, 2019, 12:48:09 am »
'Nor would they see the examples of Tory callousness you outlined in your previous post as the fault of the Tories.' so whose fault would they see it as?


Really?

Have you never read a copy of the Mail, or the Express, or the Sun? Those are newspapers that reinforce readers’ prejudices about all manner of social ills. The culprits are anyone but the Tories.

Or have you never listened to a Tory politician explaining how caring they are, and how their spending on social care/education/NHS is record breaking?

But you knew this? And you didn’t believe a word. Is it too difficult to imagine someone inclined to believe it?
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #174 on: December 4, 2019, 02:49:58 am »
Really?

Have you never read a copy of the Mail, or the Express, or the Sun? Those are newspapers that reinforce readers’ prejudices about all manner of social ills. The culprits are anyone but the Tories.

Or have you never listened to a Tory politician explaining how caring they are, and how their spending on social care/education/NHS is record breaking?

But you knew this? And you didn’t believe a word. Is it too difficult to imagine someone inclined to believe it?


Why are they inclined to believe it though? You've portrayd them as being successful in life so they can't be too stupid. They're either wilfully ignorant or of the I'm alright jack mentality. Have you challenged them on thiis? If you have I'd be interested to hear their views.
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #175 on: December 4, 2019, 06:54:21 am »
This election is now too late.

We need to try something different.

A massive recession. Then maybe we can out populist the right wing populist.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #176 on: December 4, 2019, 07:16:59 am »
A massive recession. Then maybe we can out populist the right wing populist.
Let’s not do the populist thing...

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #177 on: December 4, 2019, 07:40:00 am »
Let’s not do the populist thing...



What do you suggest we do? Keep praying that there is some amazing, centrist leader out there who will unite all and take the country with them?

Maybe we can get Blair and Brown back? Or maybe a Cooper-Burnham double act?

Maybe even a return of Clegg mania? I have heard, or I have been forced to believe, that he is a top guy.
« Last Edit: December 4, 2019, 07:41:55 am by a treeless whopper »

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #178 on: December 4, 2019, 07:59:55 am »


Why are they inclined to believe it though? You've portrayd them as being successful in life so they can't be too stupid.

That's nonsense, though. Trump. Johnson. Even Corbyn. Abbott may have done well in exams but she doesn't come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #179 on: December 4, 2019, 08:45:26 am »
What do you suggest we do? Keep praying that there is some amazing, centrist leader out there who will unite all and take the country with them?

Maybe we can get Blair and Brown back? Or maybe a Cooper-Burnham double act?

Maybe even a return of Clegg mania? I have heard, or I have been forced to believe, that he is a top guy.

Maybe start to care less about the optics, and more about the trying to actually make a difference to people's lives

Lurching towards populism is never a good thing. Hoping for terrible news to get your favourite party elected is never a good thing.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #180 on: December 4, 2019, 09:16:23 am »
No it isn’t - that’s reductio ad absurdum and you know it.

You admitted in the locked thread that despite despising Corbyn, you’ll be voting Labour. A poster who characterised many posters in here as centre-right got sarky at you and (probably) sealed the whole thread’s fate.

By the same token, many Tory voters don’t think like the ERG nutters. Nor would they see the examples of Tory callousness you outlined in your previous post as the fault of the Tories.

You can blame that on them, their newspaper, the telly, their upbringing, Corbyn or whatever. My belief is that the majority of Tory voters are not as despicable and uncaring as you believe.

And my biggest regret about the current state of British politics is it’s polarisation. As I said elsewhere, General Elections used to be a choice between centre-right and centre-left. Now it’s Hobson’s choice.



As I said they are either ignorant or uncaring of their voting actions.

The ironic thing is that Tory voters quite often come across as 'patriotic' and 'I love my country!' - and yet they are more than happy to see the country and the people in it wrecked.

They sound like great people mate. I bet if you told them about all the stuff I mentioned before they wouldn't give a shiny shite would they?

Also, I don't 'despise' Corbyn. I'm very, very disappointed in him as a Labour Leader as I feel that someone more dynamic, with less baggage and with a different view on the EU could have really made a difference and got Labour over the line. As a man, he comes across as a decent - if extremley odd person - who has some good ideas and some strange ideas.
« Last Edit: December 4, 2019, 09:24:19 am by Andy @ Allerton »
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #181 on: December 4, 2019, 09:59:34 am »
Really?

Have you never read a copy of the Mail, or the Express, or the Sun? Those are newspapers that reinforce readers’ prejudices about all manner of social ills. The culprits are anyone but the Tories.

Or have you never listened to a Tory politician explaining how caring they are, and how their spending on social care/education/NHS is record breaking?

But you knew this? And you didn’t believe a word. Is it too difficult to imagine someone inclined to believe it?
That doesn't explain the whose fault it is, a bit of research and they'd soon know. Maybe they really just don't give a shit?

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #182 on: December 4, 2019, 10:10:33 am »
There was a piece on the other night when ex miners in Yorkshire were interviewed. When Thatcher died they had a street party complete with mock coffin which was then tossed on to a bonfire.

Some of those interviewed were determined to vote Tory, despite a life time of supporting their union and voting Labour, just to "Get Brexit done".

Solidarity, hey?
They might ask where the solidarity for them has been in the last 30 years. Not the solidarity shown during the strike, but after that when the pits were indeed closed (more quickly that even Scargill had thought) and those communities and local economies were trashed. The solidarity of the rest of the country voting Tory or New Labour, which clearly prioritised other areas and other demographics, or the Scottish left which switched to independence, or the new new old Labour party, which became dominated by cosmopolitan urban identity politics, the very opposite of solidarity, with every identity valued on the left blaming old white men (and the ex-miners, by and large, are old white men) for all society's ills. Frottage was the only political leader speaking to them. There's belatedly some good stuff in the Labour manifesto for them, but buried deep in a list of expensive policies which begs the question of priorities and seriousness.
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #183 on: December 4, 2019, 10:18:17 am »
Really?

Have you never read a copy of the Mail, or the Express, or the Sun? Those are newspapers that reinforce readers’ prejudices about all manner of social ills. The culprits are anyone but the Tories.

Or have you never listened to a Tory politician explaining how caring they are, and how their spending on social care/education/NHS is record breaking?

But you knew this? And you didn’t believe a word. Is it too difficult to imagine someone inclined to believe it?

Meanwhile, in the real world, this is what all Tory voters enable.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/04/food-bank-northampton-people-abandoned-by-state

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #184 on: December 4, 2019, 10:20:24 am »
Is nationalising lots of stuff appealing to those communities?

Which communities IS it appealing to??
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #185 on: December 4, 2019, 10:29:24 am »
That focus group just shows how much the narrative plugged by the right wing media in this country plays a part in public perception.

Corbyn seen as untrustworthy while Boris is seen as a loveable buffoon you can trust. It's even pointed out in the video that if he can lie to the Queen he can lie to anyone, yet they still consider him to be trustworthy.

Every progressive policy of Corbyn's is scrutinised asking "where the money's coming from" because that's the message the right wing media has been pushing ever since the manifesto came out.

These people are clearly idiots but it's not their fault. They think what they read every day is the facts, the "news".
« Last Edit: December 4, 2019, 10:32:10 am by Red Viper or RedViper87 please? Thanks x »

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #186 on: December 4, 2019, 10:29:32 am »
All those attacking Robinred for not seeing the world in over simplistic/lowest common denominator/black and white terms, solely for attempting to empathetically put himself in others' shoes and try to help improve understanding of people with different political views..

This is all contributing to the current state of UK (and US) politics. If you think 'the other side' are being extreme and nasty and ugly and are idealogues who care more about their politics than people, wouldn't it be better to combat that by alternative means rather than doing the same things to prop up your own 'side'?

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #187 on: December 4, 2019, 10:34:51 am »
As I said they are either ignorant or uncaring of their voting actions.

The ironic thing is that Tory voters quite often come across as 'patriotic' and 'I love my country!' - and yet they are more than happy to see the country and the people in it wrecked.

They sound like great people mate. I bet if you told them about all the stuff I mentioned before they wouldn't give a shiny shite would they?

Also, I don't 'despise' Corbyn. I'm very, very disappointed in him as a Labour Leader as I feel that someone more dynamic, with less baggage and with a different view on the EU could have really made a difference and got Labour over the line. As a man, he comes across as a decent - if extremley odd person - who has some good ideas and some strange ideas.

I don't think this kind of attitude is helpful.  These are the people that those on the left need to convince if they're ever going to get anything done, so saying that they're happy to see the country and the people in it wrecked isn't helpful.

The fact is that most people don't care about politics or think about it like we do.  I honestly think they don't understand the link between austerity and people suffering.  When I talk to people about cuts to council budgets for example, they think about getting the bins emptied less often and don't realise the link to things like social care.

When you do get them to understand the link, they will then blame it on the previous Labour government for overspending, and see it as a necessary evil to prevent further suffering down the line.  I personally don't think the Labour opposition have done enough to dispel that narrative, especially during 2015.

Not saying I agree with any of this, just saying it's helpful to try and understand what's driving people away, especially in the spirit of trying to make these threads more civil and reasonable.  Classing all Tory voters as thick or evil is not going to help anyone.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #188 on: December 4, 2019, 10:35:09 am »
They're not nasty, they love their family and friends same as we all do.

What they are is manipulated and misinformed.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #189 on: December 4, 2019, 10:36:21 am »
That focus group just shows how much the narrative plugged by the right wing media in this country plays a part in public perception.

Corbyn seen as untrustworthy while Boris is seen as a loveable buffoon you can trust. It's even pointed out in the video that if he can lie to the Queen he can lie to anyone, yet they still consider him to be trustworthy.

Every progressive policy of Corbyn's is scrutinised asking "where the money's coming from" because that's the message the right wing media has been pushing ever since the manifesto came out.

These people are clearly idiots but it's not their fault. They think what they read every day is the facts, the "news".
They are wrong.   It they aren’t idiots.

They may be ignorant, but calling people idiots just isn’t making things better or addressing the reasons why they feel that way.  Just blaming the media is perhaps a sop for finding more addressable issues
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #190 on: December 4, 2019, 10:36:39 am »
They're not nasty, they love their family and friends same as we all do.

What they are is manipulated and misinformed.
Good post.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Red Viper

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #191 on: December 4, 2019, 10:42:52 am »
They'll find out how wrong they are when Brexit is a disaster but then I suspect they'll find a way to rationalise it away and blame it on Labour, probably on the front pages of the dreadful newspapers they read.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #192 on: December 4, 2019, 10:44:53 am »
A massive recession. Then maybe we can out populist the right wing populist.

And that worked well in Germany in the early '30's...

Be careful what you wish for.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #193 on: December 4, 2019, 10:46:04 am »
They'll find out how wrong they are when Brexit is a disaster but then I suspect they'll find a way to rationalise it away and blame it on Labour, probably on the front pages of the dreadful newspapers they read.

There will be a new bogey man after Brexit makes things worse, we've had benefits cheats and immigrants in the last 10 years, post brexit we will probably be sold the line that Europe as a whole has 'punished' us and thats why things are so bad.


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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #194 on: December 4, 2019, 10:46:16 am »
Maybe start to care less about the optics, and more about the trying to actually make a difference to people's lives

Lurching towards populism is never a good thing. Hoping for terrible news to get your favourite party elected is never a good thing.

Yes, but Centrist politicians have had no answer to the surge in populism but to hope for an inspirational leader. At the end of the day most populists will always lie and blame others and therefore its doubly important for the so called sensible politicians to do the right thing.

Unfortunately, the financial crisis happened under comparatively mainstream politicians and much of the distrust in politicians here happened under them as well.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #195 on: December 4, 2019, 10:47:35 am »
I’ll give it one more try: the suggestion is that all Tory voters are either uncaring or ignorant of the consequences of their vote.

There are many shades and nuances in politics and political thought. For the past 3 years, these boards have seen long, detailed, protracted debates - examining core beliefs - and what it means to be a Labour voter. Sometimes those debates have become so heated, and personalised, that they’ve been shut down.

My contention is that it’s far too simplistic to create a narrative that essentially states, “Labour good, Tory bad”.

And then we get the polarisation I referred to most strikingly at G.Es. Because of our FPTP system, which practically forces voters into a stark choice.

I’ll finish with an illustration of what I’m driving at. Take two privately educated politicians whose background, education and upbringing made them natural Tories. They have successful political careers, and hold high office. Then take two classic Labour equivalents, who rise through the union ranks to hold high office, and influence.

Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke. Len McCluskey and Ian Lavery. Two Tories and two staunch Labour men. I could go on, but I’ll leave it there.
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #196 on: December 4, 2019, 10:47:41 am »
And that worked well in Germany in the early '30's...

Be careful what you wish for.

Unfortunately this is a time for the populists and is a phase thats going to have to be ridden out. Sensible, mainstream and centrist politicians have nothing to attract the masses to them.

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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #197 on: December 4, 2019, 10:58:33 am »
And that worked well in Germany in the early '30's...

Be careful what you wish for.
and we’ve already had a massive recession.

It was a cause of brexit
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #198 on: December 4, 2019, 11:09:31 am »
Unfortunately this is a time for the populists and is a phase thats going to have to be ridden out. Sensible, mainstream and centrist politicians have nothing to attract the masses to them.

You are advocating leadership by the senseless?

Personally i prefer my government to be run by people who are not only smarter than me, but who have the well being of all the countries citizens in mind.
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Re: Politics thread III
« Reply #199 on: December 4, 2019, 11:28:29 am »
Unfortunately this is a time for the populists and is a phase thats going to have to be ridden out. Sensible, mainstream and centrist politicians have nothing to attract the masses to them.

And yet in most European countries, the far right populists have maxed out at around 20%.

So the eensible, mainstream and centrist politicians are still able to attract about 80% of the masses.