Author Topic: Trump Faceached & Twattered. "Instakarma's gonna getcha....." #bannedontherun  (Read 845343 times)

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #200 on: June 29, 2019, 01:33:29 pm »
Agreed, he looked like a confused old man at times. I posted this in the other thread, but Pete stood out for me, and I loved this line in particular:

We should call out hypocrisy when we see it. For a party that associates itself with Christianity to say that it is OK to suggest that God would smile on the division of families at the hands of federal agents, that God would condone putting children in cages has lost all claim to ever use religious language again.”

NOBODY calls them out on their hypocrisy, that should be a central theme. I know it probably won't move many voters but I'd love to see him up there debating Pence on this stuff. Just show this whole evangelist movement up for what it is

I would like Mayor Pete to continue to point out this hypocrisy. There is potential for a young vs old evangelical split to occur. There are signs that there is a divide simmering under the surface. Hopefully other Dem candidates have the balls to call it out too and make it a thing in the media.
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #201 on: July 1, 2019, 08:26:58 pm »
Pete Buttegeig raised nearly 25 million in the quarter just ended, from nearly 300k donors. That's huge.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/01/politics/pete-buttigieg-fundraising-2nd-quarter/index.html
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Offline Redcap

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #202 on: July 2, 2019, 04:43:41 am »
As a young, non-black (I'm Asian) observer, Pete has been easily the most exciting candidate out there. I think of all the candidates, he's the one most likely to turn out the young vote because he's the only one on the stage whose words I can relate to. He's got something of that Obama x-factor that's so far not shining through for anyone else (except Beto, but that guy has zero substance).

But looking at the field of candidates, and the lack of traction he's had with the police shooting, I just don't know if he's going to be able to turn out the black vote enough to win the nomination.

Which is an interesting experience. I've never been in a situation where I've felt so good about a candidate but at the same time an entire, very large minority group clearly isn't feeling the love, at all.

It will be interesting to see how he can turn that around. I suspect he won't be able to win the nomination without being able to do it.

Offline Geppvindh's

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #203 on: July 2, 2019, 06:32:20 am »
As a young, non-black (I'm Asian) observer, Pete has been easily the most exciting candidate out there. I think of all the candidates, he's the one most likely to turn out the young vote because he's the only one on the stage whose words I can relate to. He's got something of that Obama x-factor that's so far not shining through for anyone else (except Beto, but that guy has zero substance).

Interesting, but the younger vote base has moved further left than your typical Obama profile politician (who I tend to agree Mayor Pete has an uncanny similarity to). He's a centrist Democrat, and while he is not going to lose many Democrat votes to Trump, I'm worried he might not inspire the left wing base either. Also not seen enough of him, but is he aggressive enough? There's always the worry about having another decent Dem President wanting to reach across the aisle, at a time when the Dems cannot afford to drop the ball again with regards a Supreme Court vacancy or two, should they win the presidency.

Quote
But looking at the field of candidates, and the lack of traction he's had with the police shooting, I just don't know if he's going to be able to turn out the black vote enough to win the nomination.

Which is an interesting experience. I've never been in a situation where I've felt so good about a candidate but at the same time an entire, very large minority group clearly isn't feeling the love, at all.


Correct and I don't see many of the other candidates (bar Harris & Biden) drawing in black voters either, which is extremely worrying.

Quote
It will be interesting to see how he can turn that around. I suspect he won't be able to win the nomination without being able to do it.

My guess is whoever wins the nomination, he'd be top of the pile in their consideration for VP - young, erudite, gay, gets the mid-west under the belt, and build a strong rep to run in 2024 or 2028.

My larger worry though is how Trump seems to have normalised corruption, ineptness and set the bar so low for himself. I'm also pretty disappointed that the Dems have not been raking enough shit on the GOP/Trump after reclaiming the House. They're still playing decent politics with McConnell and Trump on the other side. I'm still very unclear on what the Dem strategy in 2020 is - if it was to go all out anti-Trump, they should already be turning the screws now with some major bombs closer to the election. They ran a pure policy/healthcare campaign for mid-terms but you cannot rely on that as your only strategy in a presidential election, especially given who is on the other side.

Offline Redcap

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #204 on: July 2, 2019, 07:06:30 am »
Interesting, but the younger vote base has moved further left than your typical Obama profile politician (who I tend to agree Mayor Pete has an uncanny similarity to). He's a centrist Democrat, and while he is not going to lose many Democrat votes to Trump, I'm worried he might not inspire the left wing base either. Also not seen enough of him, but is he aggressive enough? There's always the worry about having another decent Dem President wanting to reach across the aisle, at a time when the Dems cannot afford to drop the ball again with regards a Supreme Court vacancy or two, should they win the presidency.

I don't think he's necessarily a centrist. I don't think we actually know that much about his core issues. If you have a look at his wikipedia page, he's pro Green New Deal and pro-single payer healthcare. I think those are the two key issues. I don't think he needs to be any further left than he is on immigration because I think overcommitting in the primaries on Trump's signature issue is probably a very dangerous move. I think what he isn't though, is someone who has done the homework on the issues like a Warren has, which is why I think Warren would be a good running mate if he gets the nomination.

Is he aggressive enough? I think that remains to be seen. To be honest, I don't doubt any major candidate as far as their ruthlessness if they get into office. I think we've all learned a lot from the Obama years, and we've learned a lot more since then. The most moderate of moderates is going to to be hardened to battling McConnell's shenanigans.

But as far as the general election goes, I think having a bit of cut through with people outside of the social-liberal bubble is a very good thing, and I think along with Warren and Sanders (because of their focus on inequality), he's probably as good a bet as any for being able to reach through to the other side.


My guess is whoever wins the nomination, he'd be top of the pile in their consideration for VP - young, erudite, gay, gets the mid-west under the belt, and build a strong rep to run in 2024 or 2028.


Agree. Unless they're worried about a 'too much heat at the bottom of the ticket situation', but that seems secondary.

My larger worry though is how Trump seems to have normalised corruption, ineptness and set the bar so low for himself. I'm also pretty disappointed that the Dems have not been raking enough shit on the GOP/Trump after reclaiming the House. They're still playing decent politics with McConnell and Trump on the other side. I'm still very unclear on what the Dem strategy in 2020 is - if it was to go all out anti-Trump, they should already be turning the screws now with some major bombs closer to the election. They ran a pure policy/healthcare campaign for mid-terms but you cannot rely on that as your only strategy in a presidential election, especially given who is on the other side.

Not sure I agree to be honest. Trump is his own worst enemy with 52 per cent of the electorate (he hasn't had a disapproval rating under 52 per cent since May 2017). After 4 years of him (5 by next year), you don't need to convince people that can be reached at all of Trump's flaws. The Democrats need to run a strong campaign that convinces people to turn out for whoever they nominate, and not just not vote for the Republicans. Because Trump's approval rating has never sunk lower than 36.9 per cent, and you can bet your bottom dollar that whatever you manage to throw against him, his base is going to turn out.

My dream ticket would be Warren-Buttigieg or Buttigieg-Warren. Substance and cut-through, both.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #205 on: July 2, 2019, 08:48:00 am »

I think Warren-Harris would be the most impressive ticket, unfortunately I don`t see Kamala playing second fiddle to anyone, And why should she?

Also i don`t think they are that compatible politically beyond both being Democrats.

So Warren-Buttgieg makes most sense at this point.

Biden has already been shown up for what he his, Trump would have a field day running against him. Bernie? He`s not going to get the support he needs.

Perhaps someone like Booker or Castro would make good VPs.


Rolling Stone ranks the runners:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/2020-democrat-candidates-771735/
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #206 on: July 2, 2019, 08:55:21 am »
As a young, non-black (I'm Asian) observer, Pete has been easily the most exciting candidate out there. I think of all the candidates, he's the one most likely to turn out the young vote because he's the only one on the stage whose words I can relate to. He's got something of that Obama x-factor that's so far not shining through for anyone else (except Beto, but that guy has zero substance).

But looking at the field of candidates, and the lack of traction he's had with the police shooting, I just don't know if he's going to be able to turn out the black vote enough to win the nomination.

Which is an interesting experience. I've never been in a situation where I've felt so good about a candidate but at the same time an entire, very large minority group clearly isn't feeling the love, at all.

It will be interesting to see how he can turn that around. I suspect he won't be able to win the nomination without being able to do it.

Interesting stuff. Pete is really impressive. I think you are right about the Obama x factor.

But even Obama didn't have the black vote until Iowa and then they broke for him, and he was black and straight. They were looking to pick the candidate that could deliver the win really. I think that minority voters in this election will be even more pragmatic as the stakes are so much higher with Trump. That explains Biden's strength with the black vote at present, despite Kamala Harris being a strong candidate.

I think fear of having 4 more years of Trump will eclipse an aspirational candidate this time.

I think he'll make a fantastic VP pick for Harris or Warren though.

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Offline lorenzo

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #207 on: July 2, 2019, 01:38:11 pm »
I think Warren-Harris would be the most impressive ticket, unfortunately I don`t see Kamala playing second fiddle to anyone, And why should she?

Also i don`t think they are that compatible politically beyond both being Democrats.

So Warren-Buttgieg makes most sense at this point.

Biden has already been shown up for what he his, Trump would have a field day running against him. Bernie? He`s not going to get the support he needs.

Perhaps someone like Booker or Castro would make good VPs.


Rolling Stone ranks the runners:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/2020-democrat-candidates-771735/
can you link the polls? Or this just all your opinion?

Offline KillieRed

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #208 on: July 2, 2019, 04:07:46 pm »
can you link the polls? Or this just all your opinion?

Yes, that`s my opinion based on limited reading. Is that ok?

Would be happy to see your polling.
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #209 on: July 2, 2019, 05:04:38 pm »
Interesting, but the younger vote base has moved further left than your typical Obama profile politician (who I tend to agree Mayor Pete has an uncanny similarity to). He's a centrist Democrat, and while he is not going to lose many Democrat votes to Trump, I'm worried he might not inspire the left wing base either. Also not seen enough of him, but is he aggressive enough? There's always the worry about having another decent Dem President wanting to reach across the aisle, at a time when the Dems cannot afford to drop the ball again with regards a Supreme Court vacancy or two, should they win the presidency.

I think he is aggressive enough. The problem I have is that he tacks right because of his sexual preference and the prejuduces that come with that. For example, why attack the evangelicals? It's refreshing. But is this really the voters that will separate themselves from Trump? That attack line seems to be according to his own personal experience rather than retail politics. 


One of Obama's failings to me was wanting to avoid to be seen as an angry black man and play into any prejudicial stereotypes. Admirable, but retail politics suffered and it gave McConnell too much licence and all the anger was on the opposite side.


Don't get me wrong, I like Pete and Obama, but I'm afraid that Pete may have to tack to far to the centre. As a VP candidate he'd be great as a midwestern attack dog. But I don't want him setting policy and leding debates on big issues.

Quote
Correct and I don't see many of the other candidates (bar Harris & Biden) drawing in black voters either, which is extremely worrying.


Black women had no problem turning out big time for Doug Jones in Alabama to flip that seat. They will not stay home, no matter who is leading the Democrats. My bigger worry is having a leader that doesn't get non-voters and 3rd party voters from 2016.

Quote
My guess is whoever wins the nomination, he'd be top of the pile in their consideration for VP - young, erudite, gay, gets the mid-west under the belt, and build a strong rep to run in 2024 or 2028.


I agree 100%.

Quote
My larger worry though is how Trump seems to have normalised corruption, ineptness and set the bar so low for himself. I'm also pretty disappointed that the Dems have not been raking enough shit on the GOP/Trump after reclaiming the House. They're still playing decent politics with McConnell and Trump on the other side. I'm still very unclear on what the Dem strategy in 2020 is - if it was to go all out anti-Trump, they should already be turning the screws now with some major bombs closer to the election. They ran a pure policy/healthcare campaign for mid-terms but you cannot rely on that as your only strategy in a presidential election, especially given who is on the other side.


Will Trump get more people to the polls? Doubt it. Especially with all the voter suppression they are trying to do.


The Dems should run on healthcare and environemntal policy. Both those issues are complete failures of Trump and the GOP. And both of those issues will energise young new voters and can attract previous non-voters as well as 3rd party voters like the Greens.


I saw the stat that the Dems could flip Trump states without Trump voters, just 2/3 of the 3rd party voters in some states.
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Offline lorenzo

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #210 on: July 3, 2019, 07:00:26 pm »
Yes, that`s my opinion based on limited reading. Is that ok?

Would be happy to see your polling.
Latest ABC Poll 29% Sanders 23% Harris 11% Warren 11%
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1146451301670297600

After the debate Favorable 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/democratic-debate-poll/

Some more data for you

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/451215-harris-surges-past-warren-to-claim-third-place-in-post-debate-poll

There is more to life when people stop be drawn into assuming shit from MSM, do some research and maybe just maybe your find, a lot of MSM are protecting their personal interest.


For example this is WashPost:  Sander is losing ground July 3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/02/some-bad-some-even-worse-poll-news-bernie-sanders/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.760a4a4e0674

Poll from April
https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1205a2Democrats2020.pdf

Poll on July 3
https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1206a12020Democrats.pdf

Reality is sometimes MSM talk shit

I saw this again people seem to forget the reason that people voted Trump wasn't because all of there are racist is because the system is rigged for rich people.

Joe has already stated that he keep everything the same and his track record with working with republicans is horrible.

Harris is corporate as they come another Clinton

Mayor Peter not only is getting all his funds from Corporate companies, Enjoy his appeal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT5MlOoUUI

Joe/Harris/Peter all funding by big companies and i always find it interesting in when people assumes that after, a massive company contributes to these candidates what do you think they want in return?

Must be fairer society and help the poor.

You know balance wealth/Stop police brutality/stop all these wars/ stop people loosing their homes over health care/ or dying because they can't afford it.   

For me personally it has to be either Warren or Sanders
« Last Edit: July 3, 2019, 07:12:19 pm by lorenzo »

Offline John C

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #211 on: July 6, 2019, 09:02:46 pm »
Vile disinformation is well underway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oMoNYfFq7E

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #212 on: July 7, 2019, 01:59:09 am »
Dems need to forget about working across the aisle or trying to puck up disaffected Trumpers.



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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #213 on: July 8, 2019, 07:18:25 pm »
Eric Swalwell is dropping out. There goes the torch...
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #214 on: July 8, 2019, 07:44:03 pm »
Warren raised 20 mil and she is not supposedly concentrating on fundraising.


1. Buttigieg $24.8M [/font]
2. Biden $21.5M [/font]
3. Warren $19.1M[/font]
4. Sanders $18M [/font]
5. Harris $12M [/font]
6. Bennet $2.8M [/font]
7. Bullock $2M[/font]
8. Hickenlooper $1M[/font]



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Offline lorenzo

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #215 on: July 9, 2019, 07:30:57 am »
Warren raised 20 mil and she is not supposedly concentrating on fundraising.


1. Buttigieg $24.8M [/font]
2. Biden $21.5M [/font]
3. Warren $19.1M[/font]
4. Sanders $18M [/font]
5. Harris $12M [/font]
6. Bennet $2.8M [/font]
7. Bullock $2M[/font]
8. Hickenlooper $1M[/font]
Into perspective Warren raised from 350,000 people at $28 while
No one but Sanders got more with 1m people at $18

Offline Redcap

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #216 on: July 9, 2019, 07:44:59 am »
Warren raised 20 mil and she is not supposedly concentrating on fundraising.


1. Buttigieg $24.8M [/font]
2. Biden $21.5M [/font]
3. Warren $19.1M[/font]
4. Sanders $18M [/font]
5. Harris $12M [/font]
6. Bennet $2.8M [/font]
7. Bullock $2M[/font]
8. Hickenlooper $1M[/font]





Surprised some of the bigger (small) names, like O'Rourke, Booker, Gillibrand and Castro aren't ahead of the likes of Bennet et al.

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #217 on: July 9, 2019, 10:01:15 am »
Into perspective Warren raised from 350,000 people at $28 while
No one but Sanders got more with 1m people at $18

But they are all small donations for her. She has done no fund raising events like Buttigieg, Biden, Harris
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #218 on: July 9, 2019, 10:02:37 am »
Surprised some of the bigger (small) names, like O'Rourke, Booker, Gillibrand and Castro aren't ahead of the likes of Bennet et al.

I don't think they have reported yet.
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Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #219 on: July 9, 2019, 06:47:35 pm »
I'm fully on Team Warren  - Bernie's time passed, he should pull out and get behind her (phrasing)
« Last Edit: July 9, 2019, 07:02:41 pm by Mumm-Ra »

Offline Something Worse

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #220 on: July 9, 2019, 08:11:14 pm »
I'm fully on Team Warren  - Bernie's time passed, he should pull out and get behind her (phrasing)

Not yet.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #221 on: July 9, 2019, 09:53:51 pm »
The Impeachment billionaire is now running. He'll need a heck of a lot of donors to qualify for September debates. I guess the Starbuck billionachino campaign and Bloomberg didn't scare him off.
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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #222 on: July 9, 2019, 11:00:49 pm »
Latest ABC Poll 29% Sanders 23% Harris 11% Warren 11%
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1146451301670297600

After the debate Favorable 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/democratic-debate-poll/

Some more data for you

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/451215-harris-surges-past-warren-to-claim-third-place-in-post-debate-poll

There is more to life when people stop be drawn into assuming shit from MSM, do some research and maybe just maybe your find, a lot of MSM are protecting their personal interest.


For example this is WashPost:  Sander is losing ground July 3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/02/some-bad-some-even-worse-poll-news-bernie-sanders/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.760a4a4e0674

Poll from April
https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1205a2Democrats2020.pdf

Poll on July 3
https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1206a12020Democrats.pdf

Reality is sometimes MSM talk shit

I saw this again people seem to forget the reason that people voted Trump wasn't because all of there are racist is because the system is rigged for rich people.

Joe has already stated that he keep everything the same and his track record with working with republicans is horrible.

Harris is corporate as they come another Clinton

Mayor Peter not only is getting all his funds from Corporate companies, Enjoy his appeal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT5MlOoUUI

Joe/Harris/Peter all funding by big companies and i always find it interesting in when people assumes that after, a massive company contributes to these candidates what do you think they want in return?

Must be fairer society and help the poor.

You know balance wealth/Stop police brutality/stop all these wars/ stop people loosing their homes over health care/ or dying because they can't afford it.   

For me personally it has to be either Warren or Sanders


Who.the.fuck.cares?

If that's how you fringe lunatics from the left play it out again this time around, enjoy four more years of Trump. We'll get to see the environment get permanently fucked, civil liberties erode, racism and bigotry become the new norm, and who knows what else. But hey, at least we won't have a corporate Democrat in the White House.

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #223 on: July 10, 2019, 06:45:09 am »
Interesting article about how Warren is shunning some conventional strategies in her campaign. Interestingly her chief strategist was Obama's digital media guy.

 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/09/elizabeth-warren-campaign-2020-1402253
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #224 on: July 10, 2019, 06:59:23 am »
Who.the.fuck.cares?

If that's how you fringe lunatics from the left play it out again this time around, enjoy four more years of Trump. We'll get to see the environment get permanently fucked, civil liberties erode, racism and bigotry become the new norm, and who knows what else. But hey, at least we won't have a corporate Democrat in the White House.

The last two Dem Presidents were centrist corpratists that consistently caved and had no coattails down ballot. Clinton was dominated by Gingrich and Obama by o'Connell. They couldn't even get the right wing of the Dems to cooperate fully. And what were the results of all their bridge-building? The election of two Republican populists of limited ability...Bush jr and Trump.

I hope that with Biden running thst the Obama presidency gets some needed critique. And I don't see why a populist from the left can't win this thing and excite all the Dem races from dog catcher on up in 2020. They may win the presidency with Biden, but what other levers of government? What coattails will Biden have?

I think your living in a fantasy world thinking that voting in a conventional uninspiring centrist president is going to quickly correct everything and create lasting change. To reverse what Trump has done will take a wave election.
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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #225 on: July 10, 2019, 07:02:39 am »
I think history has told us repeatedly that populists are really really bad for us.

Left or right.
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline GreatEx

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #226 on: July 10, 2019, 07:07:57 am »
Yep. Fuck populism. On my Aussie Rules forum, one of the resident right-wingers was trying to "trigger the libs" over the Greek election, as though people like me would be upset that a lefty populist was beaten by a centrist/centre-right party. But I guess everything is just tribal warfare on the interwebs.

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #227 on: July 10, 2019, 07:16:40 am »
I'm fully on Team Warren  - Bernie's time passed, he should pull out and get behind her (phrasing)


   G. Elliott Morris (@gelliottmorris)
2019-07-09, 6:08 AM
Per last week's Economist/YouGov poll, Bernie Sanders is no longer the 1st choice of 2016 Sanders voters; Elizabeth Warren is.

2016 Clinton voters...
Biden: 32%
Warren: 17
Harris: 17
Buttigieg: 7
Sanders: 5

2016 Sanders...
Warren: 29
Sanders: 24
Harris: 11
Buttigieg: 9
Biden: 6
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #228 on: July 10, 2019, 07:19:03 am »
I think history has told us repeatedly that populists are really really bad for us.

Left or right.

When was the last lefty populist in the US?
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Offline Iska

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #229 on: July 10, 2019, 07:31:50 am »
When was the last lefty populist in the US?
Huey Long?

Offline Max_powers

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #230 on: July 10, 2019, 08:13:14 am »
The last two Dem Presidents were centrist corpratists that consistently caved and had no coattails down ballot. Clinton was dominated by Gingrich and Obama by o'Connell. They couldn't even get the right wing of the Dems to cooperate fully. And what were the results of all their bridge-building? The election of two Republican populists of limited ability...Bush jr and Trump.

I hope that with Biden running thst the Obama presidency gets some needed critique. And I don't see why a populist from the left can't win this thing and excite all the Dem races from dog catcher on up in 2020. They may win the presidency with Biden, but what other levers of government? What coattails will Biden have?

I think your living in a fantasy world thinking that voting in a conventional uninspiring centrist president is going to quickly correct everything and create lasting change. To reverse what Trump has done will take a wave election.

I think a more left-leaning democrat president like Warren would only work if Democrats control both Senate and Congress both with workable majorities. Otherwise it will be a frustrating term where republicans obstruct everything. Or they will have to do what Trump has done, a lot executive orders and legal challenges.

Its easy to forget that Obama was not really a centrist candidate, he was definitely more radical than Clinton. Before Obamacare was passed democrats tried hard for a Single Payer system, but just couldn't get enough support. I think with Obama a lot of policies were enacted with good intentions but executed poorly. During his administration he did enact a number of regulations on banking and financial industry to prevent another 2008 like recession. There were many advances in LGBTQ rights, during his presidency. A lot of his policies just would have been dead on arrival with the attitude of republicans.

I think in reality the biggest damage Trump as done is by gutting many governmental organization and de-funding them, or installing his idiot cronies to powerful positions. Just by changing the direction of EPA, ICE, DOE, etc would really help bring some normality but all this will take some time.

Supreme court is probably a lost cause, I doubt any of the democrats are going to get to appoint a new justice other than to replace RBG. I trust all of the candidates to select a liberal judge for that role.

No matter who the democratic candidate is, it would be too much to ask to them to fix all of america's problems. Any candidate that promises that is either naive or just happy to lie.  Healthcare, student debt, corporate tax avoidance, income inequality, national debt, stagnating wages these are all complex issues that would take decades to solve, even if everyone in both parties work together. In current climate, I don't see much getting done in the next term, other than some of Trump's more abhorrent policies getting scraped.

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #231 on: July 10, 2019, 01:06:45 pm »
Huey Long?

Louisiana...has come a long way since then... :)
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Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #232 on: July 10, 2019, 02:27:03 pm »
Looking at the polling where it matters in the swing/battleground states and Trump’s approval ratings are way down compared to 2016 in pretty much everyone, some by very large margins. Even in the red states he’s tanked and is down double digits to some of the Democrat frontrunners.

As was said, it’s not just daft racists and fake Christians who voted for him in 2016, it’s people who have been fucked over, the left behind etc... the one in the rustbelt who Trump promised the world to in 2015/16 and has delivered fuck all to and reneged on every single promise he made to them, whilst gutting their healthcare. He’ll lose many who took a punt on the ‘outsider’ in ‘16.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 02:28:42 pm by OneTouchFooty »

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #233 on: July 10, 2019, 03:50:44 pm »
Mods, why is the main Trump thread locked? It got a bit testy but then calmed down, assuming there wasn't a load of deleted posts that I missed

Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #234 on: July 10, 2019, 04:50:28 pm »
Looking at the polling where it matters in the swing/battleground states and Trump’s approval ratings are way down compared to 2016 in pretty much everyone, some by very large margins. Even in the red states he’s tanked and is down double digits to some of the Democrat frontrunners.

As was said, it’s not just daft racists and fake Christians who voted for him in 2016, it’s people who have been fucked over, the left behind etc... the one in the rustbelt who Trump promised the world to in 2015/16 and has delivered fuck all to and reneged on every single promise he made to them, whilst gutting their healthcare. He’ll lose many who took a punt on the ‘outsider’ in ‘16.

Agree. I think Trump and the GOP are not doing well in urban and suburbsn areas of even 'red' states.

Evidence of this is that the Dems just announced the location of the 3rd and more important debate in September....Houston, Texas.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 05:48:02 pm by Giono »
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #235 on: July 10, 2019, 05:10:08 pm »
I think a more left-leaning democrat president like Warren would only work if Democrats control both Senate and Congress both with workable majorities. Otherwise it will be a frustrating term where republicans obstruct everything. Or they will have to do what Trump has done, a lot executive orders and legal challenges.

Depends on what you mean by "workable majority".  They're never going to secure enough Senate seats to overcome the filibuster for example.

As we all know, Trump is a showman.  That's what this parade is all about - he's not just feeding his ego, but creating the impression that stuff is getting done.  It's just another way of him repeating the lie that everything's great, it's never been better, he's the best President in the universe etc.  But the people on the ground in those forgotten districts who voted for him see the reality.  The question is how many of them will vote Trump second time around.

Any number of independents will switch; plus we'll have new young voters who will need to get off their asses to vote.  And any number of disillusioned Republicans would rather not vote at all than vote for a Democrat, which works just as well. 
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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #236 on: July 10, 2019, 05:54:38 pm »
Depends on what you mean by "workable majority".  They're never going to secure enough Senate seats to overcome the filibuster for example.

As we all know, Trump is a showman.  That's what this parade is all about - he's not just feeding his ego, but creating the impression that stuff is getting done.  It's just another way of him repeating the lie that everything's great, it's never been better, he's the best President in the universe etc.  But the people on the ground in those forgotten districts who voted for him see the reality.  The question is how many of them will vote Trump second time around.

Any number of independents will switch; plus we'll have new young voters who will need to get off their asses to vote.  And any number of disillusioned Republicans would rather not vote at all than vote for a Democrat, which works just as well. 

And those that don't vote too. Texas is full of them.

A candidate that speaks directly to people about things that directly affect them could motivate them? Winning over non-voting cynics is a much easier row to hoe than trying to nibble at Trump voters.

I don't dislike Biden. Who could. But will he excite those younger new voters, those people feeling marginalised and ignored, those who need a reason to vote? So far he is "I'm Obama's guy and I'll beat Trump". Is that enough?
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Offline Caligula?

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #237 on: July 10, 2019, 07:35:12 pm »
The last two Dem Presidents were centrist corpratists that consistently caved and had no coattails down ballot. Clinton was dominated by Gingrich and Obama by o'Connell. They couldn't even get the right wing of the Dems to cooperate fully. And what were the results of all their bridge-building? The election of two Republican populists of limited ability...Bush jr and Trump.

I hope that with Biden running thst the Obama presidency gets some needed critique. And I don't see why a populist from the left can't win this thing and excite all the Dem races from dog catcher on up in 2020. They may win the presidency with Biden, but what other levers of government? What coattails will Biden have?

I think your living in a fantasy world thinking that voting in a conventional uninspiring centrist president is going to quickly correct everything and create lasting change. To reverse what Trump has done will take a wave election.

The point I was trying to make is that ANY Democrat would be preferable to the monstrosity that occupies the Oval Office now. If the far left are going to play that bullshit game again like in 2016, then everyone's fucked. Yeah, I have my preferences as well. But I've come to the conclusion that at this point in time, any Democrat occupying the White House would be about a million times better than Trump. So Biden and Harris are corporatist? I don't really fucking care. I'd take them in a heart beat over Trump. Beggars can't be choosers. Think of it like this: You have a couple million in your bank account and are pondering which new Ferrari model to purchase. The stock market crashes and you lose 90% of everything you have. You won't be pondering which new Ferrari to choose anymore. You'll just have to make do with anything that'll get you from point A to point B because your circumstances have vastly changed.

Offline Something Worse

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #238 on: July 10, 2019, 07:43:09 pm »
The point I was trying to make is that ANY Democrat would be preferable to the monstrosity that occupies the Oval Office now. If the far left are going to play that bullshit game again like in 2016, then everyone's fucked. Yeah, I have my preferences as well. But I've come to the conclusion that at this point in time, any Democrat occupying the White House would be about a million times better than Trump. So Biden and Harris are corporatist? I don't really fucking care. I'd take them in a heart beat over Trump. Beggars can't be choosers. Think of it like this: You have a couple million in your bank account and are pondering which new Ferrari model to purchase. The stock market crashes and you lose 90% of everything you have. You won't be pondering which new Ferrari to choose anymore. You'll just have to make do with anything that'll get you from point A to point B because your circumstances have vastly changed.

That horse is very dead, you can stop flogging it.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

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Offline Giono

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Re: US 2020 Election - Primary Season
« Reply #239 on: July 10, 2019, 11:04:39 pm »
The point I was trying to make is that ANY Democrat would be preferable to the monstrosity that occupies the Oval Office now. If the far left are going to play that bullshit game again like in 2016, then everyone's fucked. Yeah, I have my preferences as well. But I've come to the conclusion that at this point in time, any Democrat occupying the White House would be about a million times better than Trump. So Biden and Harris are corporatist? I don't really fucking care. I'd take them in a heart beat over Trump. Beggars can't be choosers. Think of it like this: You have a couple million in your bank account and are pondering which new Ferrari model to purchase. The stock market crashes and you lose 90% of everything you have. You won't be pondering which new Ferrari to choose anymore. You'll just have to make do with anything that'll get you from point A to point B because your circumstances have vastly changed.

Why are Dems the beggars in this situation? Trump does what he wants and the GOP march in step into some imaginary past. But the Dems are the ones that have to compromise on real solutions to real problems that face most Americans?

That's the attitude that lost the Dens more than a 1000 seats at state and national level during Obama's 8 years.

And now, it's a very never-Trumper Repug position to demand that the Democrats field a candidate that is suitable to them and won't critically harm the GOP. Same geniuses that turned a blind eye and winked at the tea partiers and now feign shock now the tea party IS the GOP. How convenient.

The Dems won in 2018 because of turnout. They need ideas to generate turnout in 2020 to flip the senate/congress and to end the filibuster to end the red state veto. Not just "well at least our presidential candidate is safe".

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