Author Topic: Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted  (Read 377088 times)

Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2880 on: August 12, 2022, 11:35:25 pm »
Indeed, you've still got two unanswered questions for this forum which you swerved Liny. We 'definitely' need answer please.

I plead the fifth John ;D
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2881 on: August 12, 2022, 11:41:22 pm »
I agree with most of that. My only quibble is your comment about Trump's only possible defense is to claim ignorance. He might do that, but since this would be akin to admitting that he is/was wrong and stupid, I think it unlikely. And even if he did go down this route, it surely would not ring true to most people. These are not random documents - many of them are of the most sensitive variety, which are surely a tiny subset of all the documents that even a present would view. Further, as I posted earlier, SCI documents are highly controlled, even at the presidential level. Trump stole them - he secreted them away. They weren't just lying around in the Oval Office.

SCI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information

SCIF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information_facility

Well I'm not saying it's a GOOD defence. ;D 

I've watched a fair few videos on the various investigations Trump is under, and frankly he has pretty dumb lawyers who are offering tissue-thin arguments in court. I think the lawyers will try anything they can think of, if only to try and slow this down.  For example, Trump's repeatedly tried the "Executive Privilege" argument, which is patently false as there is only one Executive and that's the current President.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say Trump views himself as a king in exile, looking to return. As such, he continues to try and assert the power and influence of the presidency when he is a private citizen. But that in itself is irrelevant to the crime at hand, which as I said is fairly straightforward.
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Offline John C

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2882 on: August 12, 2022, 11:48:03 pm »
Did my post get deleted?

Anyway you know it’s bad when the onion predicted this in 2017

https://www.theonion.com/mar-a-lago-assistant-manager-wondering-if-anyone-coming-1819579801?fs=e&s=cl
:wave  I'm happy to acknowledge one of your 84,000 one liners was deleted by me.

Sometimes discussion occurs without needing your one line, repetitive, non-observational input. No offense like :)

Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2883 on: August 12, 2022, 11:48:24 pm »
The Macron file would be interesting. Maybe there's intelligence to suggest that he actually is a member of RAWK and controls the Libertine account? ;D
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2884 on: August 12, 2022, 11:50:25 pm »
:wave  I'm happy to acknowledge one of your 84,000 one liners was deleted by me.

Sometimes discussion occurs without needing your one line, repetitive, non-observational input. No offense like :)

Nah fair enough, thought I was going insane or posted it in another thread. I dunno every time it seems like the walls are closing in on his something happens somewhere and off he goes to cause more trouble. I mean honestly I hope with all my being that the c*nt finally gets what’s coming to him, but history tells me otherwise

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2885 on: August 13, 2022, 12:08:33 am »
Does accepting a presidential pardon actually disqualify a person from holding office?  I've done a quick google and seen nothing to suggest so. Trump can certainly be disqualified under the 14th Amendment, but that relates to the insurrection.

I think it's mostly likely that if Trump is tried and convicted, Biden would commute the sentence rather than outright pardon Trump. That way the crime stays on his ledger and otherwise Trump's supporters are largely too dumb to realise accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.

Did a quick google as well and found this: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/05/can-trump-run-for-president-from-prison.html

Looks like there's only three things necessary to run for president. You need to be a US citizen, at least 35 years old and must have lived in the US for at least 14 years. No other clauses about  not having been convicted of crimes or anything. The article even says he could run, if he was in state prison. Biden giving him a pardon wouldn't change the situation. Trump could still run for president. There's not way the pardon could make it harder for him, as the pardon gives you back all the rights as a citizen, i.e. you can run for public office again (I think that's for state andd local level, where there might be other prerequisites to run for office like not having a criminal record). For the presidency it doesn't matter, if you're a criminal though as far as I understand it...

Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2886 on: August 13, 2022, 12:29:51 am »
So assuming this is the silver bullet that finally takes down trump, what are the chances of him being a flight risk?

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2887 on: August 13, 2022, 12:52:01 am »
So assuming this is the silver bullet that finally takes down trump, what are the chances of him being a flight risk?

I would say very high. He only has a few years to live and is supposedly a proper spoiled brat. He wouldn't wanna live those years in prison for sure. I can totally see him become a Steven Segal type figure.

Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2888 on: August 13, 2022, 12:52:05 am »
I think it's fairly likely that the FBI will inform Trump that they have enough to secure a conviction, but that there is a way out for him. Sign a contract saying you can't ever run for office again and announce you won't be running in 2024. Then no charges will be filed in exchange, basically to avoid civil unrest when the MAGA nutters march on Washington again. That's what I think the top priority should be for the FBI, to ensure that lunatic doesn't get back in but at the same time avoiding something catastrophic. If Trump gets that offer, he would be crazy to turn it down. I wouldn't put it out of the question that he's in such denial that he'd respond to that by announcing a presidential run though, he may be too far gone in his head ::)

Anyway, if he goes into exile, I think it's nailed on it's for Israel.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 12:56:38 am by Linudden »
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Offline Hedley Lamarr

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2889 on: August 13, 2022, 12:57:57 am »
Trump will probably claim declassification, but if the documents taken are still marked 'sensitive' or 'top secret' declassification hasn't properly taken place. Removing that disclaimer is a necessity.

I don't think he'll go to prison or anything, best case is he's excluded from running for office.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2890 on: August 13, 2022, 01:14:12 am »
I would say very high. He only has a few years to live and is supposedly a proper spoiled brat. He wouldn't wanna live those years in prison for sure. I can totally see him become a Steven Segal type figure.

Needs to put on a few more pounds...
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2891 on: August 13, 2022, 01:17:46 am »
Trump just leaked the warrant to Breitbart without the names redacted. Those FBI agents are now is serious danger.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2892 on: August 13, 2022, 02:18:36 am »
Quote
MSNBC confirms that the “Espionage Act” being used in the warrant means that there was evidence that Trump had transferred information to a third party (foreign gov’t or organization).

This is a whole new level of treachery.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2893 on: August 13, 2022, 06:12:35 am »
I don't think so. No Democrat will do it of course. But if Trump is convicted of something like espionage, his brand will be so toxic, I doubt any electable Republican would touch it either.

Nixon was also very toxic yet Ford pardoned him almost straight away, before any charges were brought.
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Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2894 on: August 13, 2022, 06:35:32 am »
Here's a video of the contents of the safe.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_pvg0XTMBbo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_pvg0XTMBbo</a>
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Offline Riquende

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2895 on: August 13, 2022, 07:07:30 am »
Sign a contract saying you can't ever run for office again

Seems a bit flimsy... Let's just say he then does declare his candidacy, what happens then? Someone in the DoJ sues him in a civil court?  It's my understanding that for dropped charges to be reinstated, new evidence has to be presented. You can't simply hold a potential trial over someone's head forever in order to coerce them to something. That contract wouldn't be worth a thing.

This has to all be done absolutely by the book, trying to squeeze some bespoke extra-legal solution is only going to lead to more problems down the line.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2896 on: August 13, 2022, 07:46:45 am »
I think it's fairly likely that the FBI will inform Trump that they have enough to secure a conviction, but that there is a way out for him. Sign a contract saying you can't ever run for office again and announce you won't be running in 2024. Then no charges will be filed in exchange, basically to avoid civil unrest when the MAGA nutters march on Washington again. That's what I think the top priority should be for the FBI, to ensure that lunatic doesn't get back in but at the same time avoiding something catastrophic. If Trump gets that offer, he would be crazy to turn it down. I wouldn't put it out of the question that he's in such denial that he'd respond to that by announcing a presidential run though, he may be too far gone in his head ::)

Anyway, if he goes into exile, I think it's nailed on it's for Israel.
I think it is fair of me to suggest that there is zero chance of any of that happening.

Further - quite the opposite - Trump must be prosecuted (and convicted) for the good of the country.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2897 on: August 13, 2022, 07:49:26 am »
Nixon was also very toxic yet Ford pardoned him almost straight away, before any charges were brought.
Not remotely comparable. Like comparing skimmed milk with 30-month mature cheddar. Kinda related, but completely different.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2898 on: August 13, 2022, 08:51:30 am »
So, his defence is that that  when he took files home, he considered them declassified by default….

:lmao

Fucking hell
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Offline Hedley Lamarr

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2899 on: August 13, 2022, 09:04:46 am »
If he took home compartmented material regarding nuclear weapons, no amount of 'I was president, I declassified' will help him.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2900 on: August 13, 2022, 09:08:30 am »
Not remotely comparable. Like comparing skimmed milk with 30-month mature cheddar. Kinda related, but completely different.

What, two Republican ex presidents facing legal peril for wrong doings and they're 'not remotely comparable'? Of course they're comparable, and while they're not the same they're not 'completely different'.

Actually Nixon was even more toxic within the Republican party than Trump at the time. It was his senators who threw him out. They never even came close with Trump. The current Republican party stays in love with Trump no matter what he does.

Sorry, I still say he gets pardoned by the next Republican president.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2901 on: August 13, 2022, 10:59:36 am »
Frottage thinks its a set up.
Do, now we know Trump took them to sell.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2902 on: August 13, 2022, 11:13:45 am »
So, his defence is that that  when he took files home, he considered them declassified by default….

:lmao

Fucking hell

Trump has always completely misread the power of the presidency. He could never get his head around the constraints on presidential power.

Trump might have a vague idea that he's in trouble, but he's such an oaf it will take awhile longer yet before he realises just how much jeopardy he is in.  This comes from a lifetime of playing fast and loose and getting away with it: he can't perceive the consequences.  With that in mind, I don't think he will try to cut a deal with the authorities - not until all other avenues of escape are exhausted. Those avenues will involve violence, unfortunately.

Dictatorships are typically a majority cowed by the threats of a minority; a minority that can and will do a lot of damage if they don't get their own way, so you either acquiesce for peace of mind, or have to roll up your sleeves and get ready to fight. Trump's got people willing to fight and die for him, and he's effectively a mob boss. He'll try to hold the federal government to ransom: "that's a pretty nice USA you have there. Would be a shame if something... happened to it."

Trump is reckless with the lives of others, and desperately careful of his own skin. He'll throw everything at this to avoid jail, pulling all the old tricks that have worked for him in the past. Talking it through and accepting the situation is just not something he's capable of doing.

If the FBI has any sense, they'll arrest him now whilst he and his allies in the media and the GOP are still reeling, before their "conspiracy!" narrative can gain any traction.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2903 on: August 13, 2022, 11:15:51 am »
Quote
Quote

    MSNBC confirms that the “Espionage Act” being used in the warrant means that there was evidence that Trump had transferred information to a third party (foreign gov’t or organization).

    This is a whole new level of treachery.


Honestly, fucking hell. It's just another grift for him. Between this and him exposing the names of the agents and putting their lives in danger, I hope the FBI are down on him like a ton of bricks.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2904 on: August 13, 2022, 11:24:28 am »
What, two Republican ex presidents facing legal peril for wrong doings and they're 'not remotely comparable'? Of course they're comparable, and while they're not the same they're not 'completely different'.

Actually Nixon was even more toxic within the Republican party than Trump at the time. It was his senators who threw him out. They never even came close with Trump. The current Republican party stays in love with Trump no matter what he does.

Sorry, I still say he gets pardoned by the next Republican president.

You can't compare the two, as the political landscapes are completely different. The modern Republican Party might have its roots in Nixon's, but it's currently mired in a cult-like collective insanity. The GOP we see today would never have turned on Nixon.

The other issue is public opinion. They had full on turned on Nixon by the time he resigned, and Ford's pardon was deeply unpopular. I can understand Ford just wanting to draw a line under the whole mess, but it turned out to be electoral suicide against Jimmy Carter.

Biden is already very unpopular; to be fair, so is Trump - at least amongst the mainstream voter that has a brain. The concept of voting in a Republican president to punish a Democrat president for pardoning a former Republican president sounds crazy, but the US is pretty crazy right now. ;D

The flip side is that Trump, whilst deeply unpopular with the mainstream, is still backed by his core base. Trump's polarised the nation so much that it's a choice between a political backlash if he's pardoned, or a physical backlash if he's so much as arrested, never mind jailed. But pardoning him wont solve the problems the US political system faces - it just kicks the can down the road.
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Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2905 on: August 13, 2022, 11:48:05 am »
You can't compare the two

You can compare the two. Every news outlet and commentator is doing that.

Sure there are differences. There are with every comparison.

The concept of voting in a Republican president to punish a Democrat president for pardoning a former Republican president sounds crazy, but the US is pretty crazy right now. ;D

I never suggested a Democrat would pardon Trump.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2906 on: August 13, 2022, 11:48:14 am »
FBI are currently conducting a finger print analysis of the documents to see who else has handled them. Guess they’ll go after Kushner next! Get ‘em all!!!

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2907 on: August 13, 2022, 11:53:44 am »
Could this one actually stick? Or another false dawn?

Don’t want to get my hopes up…


Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2908 on: August 13, 2022, 11:56:51 am »
You can compare the two. Every news outlet and commentator is doing that.

Sure there are differences. There are with every comparison.

If you're talking about criminal culpability then yes. If you're talking pardons, then no.

Quote
I never suggested a Democrat would pardon Trump.

I never said you did. But he is the current president, and I thought analysing what his options were would be useful.

As I've said before, this isn't like Trump's other legal problems that he can attempt to drag out. This is a case of serious, immediate, legal jeopardy that could move extremely quickly. So if we're talking about a Republican President issuing a pardon, the question becomes will that come about before Trump has served jail time?

The earliest a GOP president can take office is January 2025. Would a President De Santis even be interested in pardoning Trump if he doesn't have to?  Other than knowing it would eat Trump up inside for his few remaining years?  And let's not forget how this might extend to the rest of the Trump family.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2909 on: August 13, 2022, 11:57:31 am »
FBI are currently conducting a finger print analysis of the documents to see who else has handled them. Guess they’ll go after Kushner next! Get ‘em all!!!
Lovely! :)

Just who the fuck has access to them? Who has photographed their pages with their phone? This is so fucking serious, and there are still GOPers defending the orange fuck and his actions. Some of them are probably compromised too. Others are simply thick as fuck.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2910 on: August 13, 2022, 12:01:34 pm »
The earliest a GOP president can take office is January 2025. Would a President De Santis even be interested in pardoning Trump if he doesn't have to?  Other than knowing it would eat Trump up inside for his few remaining years?  And let's not forget how this might extend to the rest of the Trump family.
Assuming Trump is imprisoned before then, the question will surely come up during the election. De Santis (or whoever is the GOP candidate) will be fucked however he responds: yes, pardon; no pardon; no answer. Too many people who will likely to vote Republican will be unhappy however the candidate responds.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2911 on: August 13, 2022, 12:01:55 pm »
Could this one actually stick? Or another false dawn?

Don’t want to get my hopes up…

Impossible to say, but judging by the language being used, the FBI seem pretty grim and serious over it, and Trump has made it personal by leaking the names of the agents involved in the raid to Breitbart.

On the face of it, it's pretty straightforward. Trump took stuff he shouldn't have and refused to hand it back, exerting non-existent powers over its security status. Any defence he can come up with, from "I didn't know" to "I thought I could" just won't wash - especially as it appears he's already basically flogged some of it.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2912 on: August 13, 2022, 12:06:57 pm »
Lovely! :)

Just who the fuck has access to them? Who has photographed their pages with their phone? This is so fucking serious, and there are still GOPers defending the orange fuck and his actions. Some of them are probably compromised too. Others are simply thick as fuck.

The thought did actually cross my mind last night - how the fuck did Trump even get hold of this stuff in the first place?  What, was it just lying around the White House?  Who looked through it?  Who read the folder titles and said, "Yeah, this looks tasty. Bag it up - might be useful"?

We sure as hell know Trump wouldn't have done that - he wouldn't have a clue what he was fucking looking at half the time, and we're talking about dozens of boxes of this shit. He may well have given the order "find anything you think might be useful or worth something and bag it up," but someone else would have done the legwork.

The last thing Trump would have done is taken fucking paperwork as "mementos". There will be a lot of accomplices involved in this.

The FBI need to shake the tree and see who falls out.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2913 on: August 13, 2022, 12:06:58 pm »
Does treason carry the death penalty in the US?
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2914 on: August 13, 2022, 12:12:59 pm »
Does treason carry the death penalty in the US?

I imagine it can do, but I doubt it would. For all his detestable qualities, Trump is still a former president of the US. It's less about what the punishment would be as it is about defining the charges.

As things stand, the insurrection - if Jan 6th is defined so legally - could be constituted as treason. I don't know if espionage would also fall into that category. But I guess if Trump took stuff under Putin's orders to keep the pee-pee tape secret, then yeah that might cover it.

But Trump himself wouldn't face execution.  Biden would almost certainly commute that sentence should it be handed down.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2915 on: August 13, 2022, 12:13:00 pm »
Does treason carry the death penalty in the US?

The funny thing is Trump actually increased the length of jail time for taking sensitive documents from the government from 1 year to 5 years. He was hoping to nail Hillary with it. That could come back to bite him in the ass. As for actually selling those secrets to a foreign government or power then that’s a whole different ball game, if that can be proven of course.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2916 on: August 13, 2022, 12:16:55 pm »
Note that a criminal record won’t in anyway stop trump running for President.  Quite the opposite, he could then pardon himself.

And he could still run if he were in prison.  Not that he will go to prison.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2917 on: August 13, 2022, 12:17:05 pm »
The funny thing is Trump actually increased the length of jail time for taking sensitive documents from the government from 1 year to 5 years. He was hoping to nail Hillary with it. That could come back to bite him in the ass. As for actually selling those secrets to a foreign government or power then that’s a whole different ball game, if that can be proven of course.

Perhaps Trump is being blackmailed?  He took the documents so he could still have material to buy the silence of whoever has something over him?  Every so often they come knocking and he hands them another folder.

I still don't know if they randomly grabbed anything and everything they thought might be useful, or had perhaps received very specific instruction by a third party on what to take. I don't think Trump doesn't really understand the value of anything - he comes across as very rudimentary "if it looks important or expensive, take it."
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2918 on: August 13, 2022, 12:22:19 pm »
Perhaps Trump is being blackmailed?  He took the documents so he could still have material to buy the silence of whoever has something over him?  Every so often they come knocking and he hands them another folder.

I still don't know if they randomly grabbed anything and everything they thought might be useful, or had perhaps received very specific instruction by a third party on what to take. I don't think Trump doesn't really understand the value of anything - he comes across as very rudimentary "if it looks important or expensive, take it."

Well I can fully get behind the fact trump had no idea what was in the documents. I mean according to the FBI a lot of them were marked “Top Secret” so to someone like trump that would mean $$$ and if he is being blackmailed then definitely a huge bargaining chip. Trump has a history of shady shit so it’s not unthinkable that someone powerful has some awful shit on him, and he’s constantly trying to get out from under it. Hopefully this time whatever they throw at him sticks and he finally gets what he deserves.

Unfortunately as shown by the GOP and hide base trump was correct, he could literally shoot someone on 5th avenue and he’d still have people defending him and he wouldn’t lose any votes.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2919 on: August 13, 2022, 12:27:40 pm »
The thought did actually cross my mind last night - how the fuck did Trump even get hold of this stuff in the first place?  What, was it just lying around the White House?  Who looked through it?  Who read the folder titles and said, "Yeah, this looks tasty. Bag it up - might be useful"?
These types of documents are highly controlled. They are not just lying around. His staffers would not have access to them, and they only can be viewed in a SCIF. From what I've read, I can't see how he would have possession of these materials without superstitiously removing them - to have knowingly stolen them.

SCI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information

SCIF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information_facility
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