Author Topic: Rafa knocks back contract  (Read 147341 times)

Offline N11RED

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #720 on: January 16, 2009, 07:25:52 pm »
Fuck this, power to Rafa.

He obviously feels that this point is significant enough to go public with, as such, just imagine where we would be if we always got Rafa's first choice targets.

The sooner dithering Parry gets out of our club the better. Rafa to deals with all aspects football, Ayres to deal with all aspects commercial.

Then watch us go.

Offline red_by_dawn

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #721 on: January 16, 2009, 07:31:43 pm »
we should help rafa here. how about a campaign where we write/email Parry en masse and make it clear in no uncertain terms that Parry should do the honorable thing and resign so Rafa can get his wish and the contract gets sorted. I mean, a few thousand letters to Parry saying thanks but get out, we want rafa more than you should make it quite clear, no?

/r_b_d

Offline James B

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #722 on: January 16, 2009, 07:33:57 pm »
we should help rafa here. how about a campaign where we write/email Parry en masse and make it clear in no uncertain terms that Parry should do the honorable thing and resign so Rafa can get his wish and the contract gets sorted. I mean, a few thousand letters to Parry saying thanks but get out, we want rafa more than you should make it quite clear, no?

/r_b_d

Your intentions are good but it would be silly to do that as we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #723 on: January 16, 2009, 07:39:02 pm »
I'd be very surprised if he doesn't want full control. I'd certainly want full control if I was manager.

Nah, the full control some people are talking about includes everything, even the amount of the owners money to spend which will never happen, he just wants more control taken away from Parry and given to him imo.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #724 on: January 16, 2009, 07:40:32 pm »
we should help rafa here. how about a campaign where we write/email Parry en masse and make it clear in no uncertain terms that Parry should do the honorable thing and resign so Rafa can get his wish and the contract gets sorted. I mean, a few thousand letters to Parry saying thanks but get out, we want rafa more than you should make it quite clear, no?

/r_b_d

1. He would just bin them
2. We don't even know the truth behind it all yet.

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #725 on: January 16, 2009, 07:40:40 pm »
Fuck this, power to Rafa.

He obviously feels that this point is significant enough to go public with, as such, just imagine where we would be if we always got Rafa's first choice targets.

The sooner dithering Parry gets out of our club the better. Rafa to deals with all aspects football, Ayres to deal with all aspects commercial.

Then watch us go.


If you think that we should have a manager who will always get his first choice signing you are in dream land. It's impossible and never happens, no matter how good you are or how much money you have. Not saying we haven't made mistakes, just saying it's not that easy.

I don't really know why Rafa has knocked this back and the interview doesn't say much. It sounds like he's talking about spending his budget on HIS players but whether it means he wants more control over negotiations etc. also (on top of the academy stuff) i'm not sure
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Offline N11RED

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #726 on: January 16, 2009, 07:44:23 pm »
He wants the same amount of power that Ferguson and Wenger enjoy to enable him to build his dynasty.

Shows exactly how committed he is to us.

Its good news, just give him what he wants.

Offline rafa is the bosphorus

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #727 on: January 16, 2009, 07:49:49 pm »
Whoa, Rafa is way wrong here.

This is about basic corporate governance. He should not be involved in any monetary negotiations with players. The business also requires clear checks and balances and seperation of responsibilities.

May be different in Spain but it isn't here.

Rafa is simply wrong on this one.

I think you're right. If Coco is the wrong man, fire him. But there has to be some checks and balances. Arsenal is the example of how this goes wrong...

Offline Pooch

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #728 on: January 16, 2009, 07:49:54 pm »
Most managers within any business are given a budget by their board. Be it for marketing, recruitment or equipment. They shouldn't then, having given you the budget say what it is to be spent on? Why give them a budget if they have no say over it.

Parry should be there for any due dilligence and legalities and Fuck all else. Parry is a businessman and not a football man. How can he put the value against what a player will bring to the team.

Lets get it sorted, privately and quickly.




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Offline -Daws-

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #729 on: January 16, 2009, 07:52:45 pm »
Can't say I'm suprised about this to be honest. Seems to me that Rafa wants to stay, because he wants to at least win the League here and prove he is one of the very, very best in Europe.

However he has his issues within the club and the running of it. It's clear that Rafa has no time for Parry, which isn't really suprising seens nobody involved with the club at all levels, really does.

That's not to see that a CEO is not a nessesity. It is. Rafa, although clearly a very intelligent and clued up man, could not possibly be asked to run the finacial side of the club to the extent a CEO would, and should focus entirely on the progression, both tactically and in terms of personel, on his squad, and the influx of young players that he wants bought to the club and eased into the first team squad. That's Rafa's job, to train, teach, manage and progress the football side of things at this club, and that is what he should focus on. I agree with te above where G&H give Rafa a transfer budget, let him decide how to use it, and pass it onto Rick to go and get the deals done. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening.

As for Robbie Keane, well that may well have weakend Rafa's hand, but it's important to remember that Rafa's number one target was Gareth Barry, to form a 3 man midfield consisiting of Gerrard, Mascha, and Gareth (providing both width, creativity, balance and stability), with Keane and Kuyt playing off of Torres. Of course this could/would have been switched and moulded to each games requirements, but that's the option he wanted in the main.

However this was scuppered for multiple reasons. Parry was shite at negotiating, H&G wouldn't push to £18m (which you can't call unfair, that's a lot of money with Keanes £20m price tag on top) and this left Rafa with a player who didn't fit into his system as he would have had we signed Barry. I think Gareth Barrys left foot and versatility had a lot to do with Benitez persuing him, and there aren't really many players like Gareth around. So with Keane left as a square peg for a pentagon shaped hole, suddenly we have a £20m striker who doesn't look like he's got much of a chance.

Yes, as I say, that will weaken Rafa's hand. But Rafa has the old trick up his sleave, the black magic, us. He knows it, and although he respects it, he uses it to his advantage. And why shouldn't he? Both Rafa and ourselves want the same things in general for this football club, but unfortunately people like Parry are holding us back, mainly through idiocy raher than ill feeling.

Rafa has played a clever game here, getting this in the open. I know the old "dirty linnin" blah blah, but I think that ship has fucking sailed people. Now it's time to do what's best for Liverpool Football Club, and if that means going public with Parry's shit, then so be it, I'm afraid.
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Offline Shanks1965

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #730 on: January 16, 2009, 07:55:24 pm »
What 'exactly'is Parry's role when it comes to transfers? Handling the negotiations sure, but what else does he have final say over? Who we sign and how much we pay for them?
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #731 on: January 16, 2009, 07:57:42 pm »
What 'exactly'is Parry's role when it comes to transfers?

Fuckin off on holiday usually..
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Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #732 on: January 16, 2009, 08:00:00 pm »
I back Rafa whole-heartedly on this.

The bastards need to be snared out completely.

I fear it is too late...
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Offline STORMTROOPER

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #733 on: January 16, 2009, 08:04:52 pm »
This was always going to come to a head and in fact there's a thread in 'Off the Pitch' that's been running for some weeks re this very issue; the structure of the club.

Apparently it's not uncommon for a manager to have control over most aspects on the continent, with the exception to an extent at likes of Barca and Madrid where there are elections for power & members (supporters) get a vote.

But generally in the UK this isn't the case.  There's always been checks & balances.  No Liverpool manager previously has had unchecked control over everything at the club, be it Shanks, Paisley or Dalglish.  Obviously they probably had more competent Chief Exec's & indeed Chairmen backing them.

It's patently obvious that Parry is a major problem.  Hicks would obviously back Rafa in getting rid.  But then that potentially opens cans of worms over who replaces Parry.  And if it turns out to be a yes man to Hicks then this may not be in the best longer term interests for the club.  Rafa has always the option of moving on in the future if things don't pan out to his liking.

Jury's out for me on this one.


think thats a good point.

Offline Gedo

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #734 on: January 16, 2009, 08:11:40 pm »
What 'exactly'is Parry's role when it comes to transfers? Handling the negotiations sure, but what else does he have final say over? Who we sign and how much we pay for them?
Well while Rafa was recovering from his Kidney stones and Tom Pricks was getting interviewed on Sky Sports,where was Ricky Boy?.....................................


Up at the Academy getting............................wait for it!!!!!!
Goalkeeping Lessons from 1 of the young Goalkeeping Coaches at the Academy!!!!!
Now and again the staff play friendly matches at the Academy against a variety of teams.
Soft shite Rick thinks he's a budding Yashin or Banks and volunteers to go between the sticks,probably because the c*nts got 2 left feet and couldn't kick a ball down Everton Brow!!!!!!!

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #735 on: January 16, 2009, 08:14:16 pm »
When DIC get a todger's worth of cash out and buy the club they can dictate what happens at LFC. So long as they mince about and watch while Hicks and Gillett ruin our club they can fuck off too.
Anyone with the means to buy us who doesn't does not deserve an input. They DIC & the Sheik have spunked millions on shit over in Dubai (F1 / Tennis / Hotels that no-one stays in, building a land locked fucking harbor or whatever) and all we get is DIC won't pay a penny more than the clubs worth, they don't want to deal with G+H etc. well fuck the lot of them, If they can't piss then get off the fucking pot.

I've got 8 pages to read (and a little bit of a bottle of red wine to finish) but a-fucking-men mate. 
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Offline And Could He Play

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #736 on: January 16, 2009, 08:16:57 pm »
This was always going to be his last season in charge.
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Offline Robinred

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #737 on: January 16, 2009, 08:19:28 pm »
I back Rafa whole-heartedly on this.

The bastards need to be snared out completely.

I fear it is too late...

It's not like you to be negative.

This whole thread epitomises some 'supporters' ' attitude to Rafa. I don't need to name them - you know who I mean.

Their support is partial, conditional, less than wholehearted.

Yet at the same time they ALWAYS qualify their posts with statements like"don't get me wrong , I want Rafa to stay, I support him, it's just that..." or other such bollocks.

Some, like Royhendo, even try to reason with these people, which is very admirable (and hes actually hit the nail on the head in doing so).

Rafa needs full backing from the fans. He's earned it.

He should get what he wants from the contract negotiations too. He's earned them.

Because there is no half-way house here, it's unequivocal, it's warts-and-all.

Has Rafa earned the right to his demands or not? (forget about good buys versus bad buys, Alonso versus Barry - that just muddies the water and misses the point, because in the end it's essentially opinion and speculation))

Do you trust him or not?
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Offline nutmeg94

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #738 on: January 16, 2009, 08:21:26 pm »
This was always going to be his last season in charge.

We'll see.  I think he'll last much longer at the club than the yanks c*nts, but we'll see.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #739 on: January 16, 2009, 08:22:45 pm »
Rafa has been a good manager for us, but we should be objective. We are in year five of his tenure now, in modern top flight football that is a very good run.

He has previous for political infighting at Valencia just before joining us - is he creating a similar situation to enable a dignified exit to Madrid in the summer?

In modern big clubs the manager does the football and the board does the finance.You cant bust that. Is this a deliberate attempt to create an unrealistic demand which enables him to leave? Or is this about getting rid of the odious Parry who so often crawls under the radar of Red opprobrium?

Parry's football poor judgement has been painfully exposed by his pathetic failure to back Rafa on the obvious benefits of signing Barry, then authorising an over the top bid for an ageing forward in Keane whose "lifestyle" issues in london and Coventry were a poorly guarded secret ( apart from Parry).

G&H are not going anywhere in the short term. With no support from half the owners and the  manager parry is here for only one thing, himself, and i can understand rafa wanting him out.

Were Rafa to leave, either because he wanted to go to madrid or  because Parry wont go Torres and Alonso would immediately be vulnerable and we would be in dangerous water.

Parry out is the most obvious, and painless first step to deal with this problem. :wave
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Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #740 on: January 16, 2009, 08:26:59 pm »
This was always going to be his last season in charge.

Care to elaborate?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #741 on: January 16, 2009, 08:28:19 pm »
Care to elaborate?

Nothing to elaborate - unless he's Montse in disguise he knows as much as you and me...
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Offline lfcmaster

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #742 on: January 16, 2009, 08:29:07 pm »
Rafa has been a good manager for us, but we should be objective. We are in year five of his tenure now, in modern top flight football that is a very good run.

He has previous for political infighting at Valencia just before joining us - is he creating a similar situation to enable a dignified exit to Madrid in the summer?

In modern big clubs the manager does the football and the board does the finance.You cant bust that. Is this a deliberate attempt to create an unrealistic demand which enables him to leave? Or is this about getting rid of the odious Parry who so often crawls under the radar of Red opprobrium?

Parry's football poor judgement has been painfully exposed by his pathetic failure to back Rafa on the obvious benefits of signing Barry, then authorising an over the top bid for an ageing forward in Keane whose "lifestyle" issues in london and Coventry were a poorly guarded secret ( apart from Parry).

G&H are not going anywhere in the short term. With no support from half the owners and the  manager parry is here for only one thing, himself, and i can understand rafa wanting him out.

Were Rafa to leave, either because he wanted to go to madrid or  because Parry wont go Torres and Alonso would immediately be vulnerable and we would be in dangerous water.

Parry out is the most obvious, and painless first step to deal with this problem. :wave

i dont buy into this theory about players wanting to leave just because rafa has gone
rafa remember wanted to sell alonso in the summer

Offline Mr Mojo Risin'

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #743 on: January 16, 2009, 08:29:36 pm »
Nothing to elaborate - unless he's Montse in disguise he knows as much as you and me...

tell barney booo from me please.
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Offline And Could He Play

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #744 on: January 16, 2009, 08:31:48 pm »
Nothing to elaborate - unless he's Montse in disguise he knows as much as you and me...

Didn't claim to be "in the know", just think this will be his last season, have thought it for a while.
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Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #745 on: January 16, 2009, 08:32:55 pm »
Nothing to elaborate - unless he's Montse in disguise he knows as much as you and me...

That's what I thought, be nice to hear why he comes out with that shite though.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #746 on: January 16, 2009, 08:34:03 pm »
Didn't claim to be "in the know", just think this will be his last season, have thought it for a while.

Ah, the way you said it though it looked far more than just a thought.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #747 on: January 16, 2009, 08:34:16 pm »
i dont buy into this theory about players wanting to leave just because rafa has gone
rafa remember wanted to sell alonso in the summer


I did not say "wanting to leave", I said "vulnerable."
IF, Rafa went to Madrid, who would bet against him trying to bring torres "home".
IF, Milan have £100m in their war chest, might they not try a double spanish raid if we were Rafaless ?
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Offline coachpotato

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #748 on: January 16, 2009, 08:38:42 pm »
The timing is crucial to this. On the Yanks and parry's side, they can't afford to wait until the summer because, if we were to win the League, or CL, again, Rafa would be holding all the aces and they would know he was in an unassailable position to dictate his terms for staying.
That or go to Madrid?
In settling the deal now, they could have all the pieces in place to sell to the highest bidder come June when their debt to the banks is due, and as possible Champions of England, our price would be at it's highest, therefore more profit for them.
So from Rafa's position, agreement to everything and then the insistence on almost total control, knowing they probably wouldn't agree, and compromising parry in the process, is a stalling move.
He can claim, rightly, it's all about the football side and not the money.
As long as we keep possible success alive of course.
Should we falter, then he could accept their deal as it stands and fight another day.
Or go to Madrid?
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #749 on: January 16, 2009, 08:39:41 pm »
After November 2007 I have to say I didn't think Rafa would be here this season, but he's a lot more durable than I expected (and the owners seem to recognise his abilities) and clearly he feels there's a point of principle worth making a stand over. The most positive spin to put on it is that he feels he has some kind of destiny at Liverpool and wants everything in place to achieve it. 
I'm willing to accept that he has a working relationship with the owners, and everything points to him having a better relationship with Hicks than Gillett (much as we all hate to admit it). DIC and other Dubai investment is a sideshow and unless they actually make an offer I think we should all forget about them.

Lindsey - I don't think the Calderon thing will have anything to do with us. Ramos is doing a decent job and is probably safe for a while. If Rafa beats Real to get to the quarter finals his position will be strengthened and the owners would have difficulty justifying ditching him. If Ramos comes out on too - why would they ditch him?...

I have no fucking idea where this will all end up and anyone who claims different is likely to get a new custom title of "biggest bullshitter of January 2009".

Anyone want to claim the title?...
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Offline saintslfc13

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #750 on: January 16, 2009, 08:40:32 pm »
What 'exactly'is Parry's role when it comes to transfers? Handling the negotiations sure, but what else does he have final say over? Who we sign and how much we pay for them?

I don't really know his actual role as described by the club, but negotiations tend to include how much we pay for that player and his wages and such. Take Keane for example, there is no way we should have paid 20 million for a player that is openly a Liverpool supporter and has waited all his life to play for us. That's ridiculous, a better negotiator would have prolly got Robbie for around 12-15m which is a fair price. Tottenham robbed us blind when they sold keane to us and that's Parry's doing. I think what Rafa wants is to essentially be the negotiator in our transfer matters. He wants to go sit down with the Player/club/ and agent and sell them on Liverpool FC, the price we pay for said player, and why the wages are fair. Many people claim that meeting Rafa is an experience for them which they don't forget. The same people also wish they never met Parry.

I don't think Rafa is foolish enough to think he's going to get a blank check every transfer window when Parry is gone, I think he just wants the ability to do his best with the money the owners give him and not worry about Parry's opinion. 

Offline Xabier

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #751 on: January 16, 2009, 08:41:07 pm »
Back Rafa

Offline BCCC

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #752 on: January 16, 2009, 08:41:55 pm »
IF, Rafa went to Madrid, who would bet against him trying to bring torres "home".

Real Madrid? That's the equivalent of the mancs signing Carra.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #753 on: January 16, 2009, 08:43:01 pm »
That's what I thought, be nice to hear why he comes out with that shite though.

Please refer to image number two in a sequence of four...


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09/03/2011 08:04
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Offline Redskin

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #754 on: January 16, 2009, 08:43:24 pm »
It's not like you to be negative.

This whole thread epitomises some 'supporters' ' attitude to Rafa. I don't need to name them - you know who I mean.

Their support is partial, conditional, less than wholehearted.

Yet at the same time they ALWAYS qualify their posts with statements like"don't get me wrong , I want Rafa to stay, I support him, it's just that..." or other such bollocks.

Some, like Royhendo, even try to reason with these people, which is very admirable (and hes actually hit the nail on the head in doing so).

Rafa needs full backing from the fans. He's earned it.

He should get what he wants from the contract negotiations too. He's earned them.

Because there is no half-way house here, it's unequivocal, it's warts-and-all.

Has Rafa earned the right to his demands or not? (forget about good buys versus bad buys, Alonso versus Barry - that just muddies the water and misses the point, because in the end it's essentially opinion and speculation))

Do you trust him or not?

Yep
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Offline Perkins

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #755 on: January 16, 2009, 08:44:25 pm »
Didn't claim to be "in the know", just think this will be his last season, have thought it for a while.

You ruined the ending to 7 pounds as well by saying Will Smith dies in a nasty way, your on fire
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #756 on: January 16, 2009, 08:45:06 pm »
It's not like you to be negative.

This whole thread epitomises some 'supporters' ' attitude to Rafa. I don't need to name them - you know who I mean.

Their support is partial, conditional, less than wholehearted.

Yet at the same time they ALWAYS qualify their posts with statements like"don't get me wrong , I want Rafa to stay, I support him, it's just that..." or other such bollocks.

Some, like Royhendo, even try to reason with these people, which is very admirable (and hes actually hit the nail on the head in doing so).

Rafa needs full backing from the fans. He's earned it.

He should get what he wants from the contract negotiations too. He's earned them.

Because there is no half-way house here, it's unequivocal, it's warts-and-all.

Has Rafa earned the right to his demands or not? (forget about good buys versus bad buys, Alonso versus Barry - that just muddies the water and misses the point, because in the end it's essentially opinion and speculation))

Do you trust him or not?

Now don't get me wrong... I've always supported Rafa... but...

Nice post

 ;D
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #757 on: January 16, 2009, 08:45:29 pm »
just give him what he wants i say. if he wants to run the academy, if he wants to rule transfer, hell if he wants the rule the tea ladies and overlook them making tea and coffee let him.

so far its been dignified so lets not panic, unless something goes wrong on monday
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #758 on: January 16, 2009, 08:46:25 pm »
What gets me about all this is the 5 year thing. If the owners are really looking to sell like most of the ITK's have been saying why would they want to give Rafa a 5 year deal?
Ok, it gives the club stability but there is always a chance that any new owners would want to put their own man in if things weren't going well, and if they want to buy a club and that club has a manager with 4 years plus left on his contract that might well put them off.  Just a thought.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: Rafa knocks back contract
« Reply #759 on: January 16, 2009, 08:49:28 pm »
Please refer to image number two in a sequence of four...




 :)