Author Topic: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80  (Read 86628 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1400 on: October 18, 2020, 09:53:22 am »
Whilst the worry is how many goals we are conceding we have to acknowledge just how creative we look going forward. The attack and midfield are looking phenomenal.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1401 on: October 18, 2020, 09:56:43 am »
Whilst the worry is how many goals we are conceding we have to acknowledge just how creative we look going forward. The attack and midfield are looking phenomenal.

The key is getting Becker back as soon as possible. We will still leak a bit without VVD but he will save us conceding a lot of goals. If Thiago isn't out for too long then our midfield and attack is still unplayable most days.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1402 on: October 18, 2020, 10:00:42 am »
For all the talk of Carlo Fantastico that team played like a prime Duncan Ferguson team.

Pickford, Mina, Richarlison, Allan and Rodriguez - Shithouses. And the sole tactic hoof ball and crosses.

Prime Stoke City.

Yeah, Ancelotti has gone way down in esteem in my eyes. Always thought he had class, but that shit yesterday and his comments after the game, he's gone way way down.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1403 on: October 18, 2020, 10:01:42 am »
Whilst the worry is how many goals we are conceding we have to acknowledge just how creative we look going forward. The attack and midfield are looking phenomenal.

We looked like a top European club playing the league winners of Nagorny-Karabakh Disputed Territory Cuckoo League. We were going to have a topsy turvey season and it's just got more topsy turvey.

And apologies to any Nagornies on here.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1404 on: October 18, 2020, 10:07:42 am »
Putting aside the farcical VAR at the end and the VVD injury I really enjoyed that yesterday. That's the first time since lockdown that I've actually felt properly emotionally invested in the game rather than going through the motions.

Not sure if this is linked to that enjoyment but it seems like ages since we were on BT and I thought yesterday really shone a light on how bad the Sky commentary has got.

Offline Jm55

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1405 on: October 18, 2020, 10:19:43 am »
ust feel absolutely robbed like the energy and joy has been sucked out of me.

Yes there are worse things in life than your team not winning a football match but they’ll be a time to be philosophical.

As I’d imagine is the case for everyone on here, I look for 4 matches when the fixtures are announced and that’s Everton and United home and away, for me the 2 away fixtures being the biggest scalp.

The sheer delight I experienced when Hendo scored was like nothing on this planet, pure unadulterated fucking joy, I’ve done my fair share of drugs over the years but nothing came close to that feeling of sheer bliss. And then its robbed from us. Not because of a marginal decision, not because of a soft foul, but because some prick in a tv studio somewhere has decided it would be a laugh to exercise their fucking power and disallow it.

Football is about moments like that, what we dream about and wish for before games like yesterday are injury time 3-2 winners in the local derby, and those moments are being taken from us for no good reason.

Online kasperoff

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1406 on: October 18, 2020, 10:20:16 am »
What’s going to happen from it ? They aren’t going to award us three points and we have VVD / Thiago available for next match.

The Officials are inept and will continue to be so.

It’s about the next time. I’m not Into conspiracy theories, but I do suspect some refs carry a bias. I think there is a strong case for that yesterday, and I think the club do too. This is the clubs  way of calling it out. These fuckers need to come clean. They are going to have a very hard time explaining that Pickford incident and offside away.

Of course you could say this will just make them double down on us, but we rarely get marginal decisions these days anyway, so how much worse can it get?
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Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1407 on: October 18, 2020, 10:26:15 am »
The response by the Club is a bizarre stance.

You hope it changes things for the good of the game but unlikely.
Why?

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1408 on: October 18, 2020, 10:28:08 am »
I hope the club will do everything in its power to make sure that Coote does not referee in the PL in the future. What is the point of having him as VAR if he cannot recognise an assault dancing on a harpsichord singing 'cowardly assaults are here again!'?
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1409 on: October 18, 2020, 10:31:02 am »
I hope the club will do everything in its power to make sure that Coote does not referee in the PL in the future. What is the point of having him as VAR if he cannot recognise an assault dancing on a harpsichord singing 'cowardly assaults are here again!'?

Yeah, by asking those questions we’ve made sure it gets talked about and isn’t just brushed off with a pathetic “after reviewing it they were satisfied there was no serious foul play”. Now that have to either back their man which would be laughable or admit that he made a mistake. Won’t get us any extra points or get our injured players back but if it stiffs Coote that would be something.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1410 on: October 18, 2020, 10:32:41 am »
Notice as well all the blue shirts racing in for a fight that never happened. Pure Ferguson. They all started on the ref when our lads were more concerned with Tiago’s welfare.
Compare that to the way they waved cards and cried to the ref all game.

The sight of the horrible twat rolling around pretending he’s hurt, trying to avoid a red card is one of the most cowardly things I’ve seen.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1411 on: October 18, 2020, 10:35:10 am »
What’s going to happen from it ? They aren’t going to award us three points and we have VVD / Thiago available for next match.

The Officials are inept and will continue to be so.
We want answers on exactly what happened. Don't you?

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1412 on: October 18, 2020, 10:35:26 am »
The sight of the horrible twat rolling around pretending he’s hurt, trying to avoid a red card is one of the most cowardly things I’ve seen.
It proves the blue shite are back to their ‘dogs of war’ mindset where their first thought is to injure opposition players and then think about where the ball is.
I hope Pickford is banned retrospectively. Any apology he gives should be royally fucked off.

Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1413 on: October 18, 2020, 10:38:32 am »
Just a sobering reminder that Michael Oliver is the best ref in the prem. He somehow missed that tackle on VVD and somehow didn't discuss it with the VAR ref. The VAR ref "forgot" to look at the tackle, since his attention was only on the offside, even though his remit includes looking at potential red cards both on and off the ball.

This is the level of incompetence we are dealing with. Now we know why certain incidents are not even looked at (pen at Villa), cos the VAR ref has to have seen it as well. This means you are dealing with the subjective views of two refs instead of one.

I have maintained since last year that unless you can show that the technology is good enough to deal with the speed of the game, the camera angles and the quality of the picture, you simply cannot make calls that tight. I don't believe they are using hi-speed cameras so its bollocks.

That all said, we still have to look at ourselves and what we could've done better. We wasted some good positions where we should've scored. Our defending was poor for both goals. Not sure what TAA was doing for the 2nd goal, instead of picking up the RW (James?) He hesitated until the pass was made then was well behind the action.

Obviously have Robbo up against dcl was a mismatch, Gomez should shown better awareness. Obviously is was difficult for Matip and Gomez but they will have to do extra work on the training pitch to get themselves organised.

The less said about Adrian and the 1st goal, the better. There's no point going over Adrian again now, I don't see any 2nd choice keepers bar Henderson at Utd who do not make tons of mistakles.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1414 on: October 18, 2020, 10:39:35 am »
If people want to continue believing that football is a sport played by gentlemen, run by gentlemen, they need to wake the fuck up. We have referees admitting that they gave favourable decisions to certain teams and let themselves be influenced in certain football grounds. We have referees admitting that PGMOL told them to turn a blind eye to controversial decisions. We have ex-footballers admitting to deliberately going out to injure certain players.

There is a big difference between referees being influenced by certain environmental factors, as will happen to any human referee in any sport ever, and corruption. Corruption implies backhanders or some other financial or political gain with a wider motive.

A referee letting a previous bias consciously or unconsciously cloud their judgement is not the same thing. That is an issue of competence and professionalism.

And I´m sorry, but to think that little old LFC, one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world, is on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy is straight up bullshit on a level with City fans crying foul at everything and anything.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 10:42:24 am by Indomitable_Carp »

Offline MJD-L4

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1415 on: October 18, 2020, 10:41:48 am »
The sight of the horrible twat rolling around pretending he’s hurt, trying to avoid a red card is one of the most cowardly things I’ve seen.

Another one for me was James rolling around on the floor trying to get the game stopped whilst we had a dangerous attack going.

Obviously we had a shot which went wide and as soon as the ball went out of play he jumped up and started waving around the imaginary yellow card that seemed to be stuck to his hand.

They all played like right scummers out there yesterday. There were some horrendous challenges aside from the two potential career enders.

Offline MJD-L4

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1416 on: October 18, 2020, 10:46:06 am »

It's utter bollocks, Pickford should have gone yesterday but unless you change the offside rule that's life, there is no too close it's either offside or not.

That's not right though is it? If Virgil was offside (I don't think he was, but there we go) then Pickford should have been sent off and a free kick awarded to Everton. The offside is irrelevant to Pickford's foul play.

By that logic, every time the flag goes up for offside, you could just run up and two foot an opposition player with no fear of repercussions.


EDIT: I've just re-read your post and think I initially misunderstood. Apologies.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 10:55:52 am by MJD-L4 »

Offline Rush 82

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1417 on: October 18, 2020, 10:51:14 am »
What’s going to happen from it ? They aren’t going to award us three points and we have VVD / Thiago available for next match.

The Officials are inept and will continue to be so.
So what should we do if not officially question? Burn the officials homes down? Suck it up? Employ a couple of shithouses from the Championship specifically for revenge purposes?

Online JRed

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1418 on: October 18, 2020, 10:59:38 am »
So what should we do if not officially question? Burn the officials homes down? Suck it up? Employ a couple of shithouses from the Championship specifically for revenge purposes?
We have to officially question in any way possible and take it as far as we possibly can.

Offline clinical

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1419 on: October 18, 2020, 11:00:17 am »
What’s going to happen from it ? They aren’t going to award us three points and we have VVD / Thiago available for next match.

The Officials are inept and will continue to be so.

David Coote needs to be held responsible. We've lost 2 points purely down to him. Pickford should have gone. Again down to him. Refs need to be held accountable for such obvious errors.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1420 on: October 18, 2020, 11:01:00 am »
There is a big difference between referees being influenced by certain environmental factors, as will happen to any human referee in any sport ever, and corruption. Corruption implies backhanders or some other financial or political gain with a wider motive.

A referee letting a previous bias consciously or unconsciously cloud their judgement is not the same thing. That is an issue of competence and professionalism.

And I´m sorry, but to think that little old LFC, one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world, is on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy is straight up bullshit on a level with City fans crying foul at everything and anything.

Trot off and look up ‘morally corrupt’ and then come back to us :)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1421 on: October 18, 2020, 11:01:49 am »
David Coote needs to be held responsible. We've lost 2 points purely down to him. Pickford should have gone. Again down to him. Refs need to be held accountable for such obvious errors.
They should be made to explain their decisions. They are professional officials and as such should be accountable.

Offline Jm55

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1422 on: October 18, 2020, 11:04:39 am »
Trot off and look up ‘morally corrupt’ and then come back to us :)

A genuine question, and this is meant as a question not a dig

Do you think what went on yesterday was corrupt? As I’m genuinely at the point where I’m struggling to explain it by any other means any ive always been absolutely against the idea that there’s any kind of corruption in the game.

The offside for Mane I can just about levy as apparently it’s to do with his upper arm being offside? But how they can review that challenge on Van Dijk and not even book Pickford for, I’m just at an absolute loss to explain.

Offline Dave D

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1423 on: October 18, 2020, 11:08:47 am »
And I´m sorry, but to think that little old LFC, one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world, is on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy is straight up bullshit on a level with City fans crying foul at everything and anything.

Who thinks that Liverpool are on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy? I haven't seen anyone on here make reference to that.

What's with certain people comparing us to city fans? I think it's snide, offensive and downright insulting. Instead of hurling insults from the sideline, why don't you lot row in behind the club for a change.

David Coote is either a petty little man who holds grudges against any club that might hurt his fragile, yet colossal ego. Or he is allowing certain factors to impact his ability to carry out work to a professional standard. People can read into that what they want, but the man has already failed a FIFA fitness test this year.

First things first. David Coote needs to be sacked.

Pickford needs a 3 match ban.

VAR needs a complete overhaul. There needs to be cameras running in the booth at all times. A camera on the official and and any other operators. A camera watching the hand movements at all times. Audio feed between the operators, VAR officials and the officials on the pitch that can be listened to by club staff and tv broadcasters. Images used to decided close calls or decisions need to be made available after each match, including the distance calculated by the computer to deem a player on or offside.

We may joke about doing away with VAR, but getting rid of the system would give the likes of David Coote and Martin Atkinson a free run at it without being held accountable.

Offline keyop

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1424 on: October 18, 2020, 11:10:04 am »
Yeah, Ancelotti has gone way down in esteem in my eyes. Always thought he had class, but that shit yesterday and his comments after the game, he's gone way way down.
Same here. I was annoyed when he joined Everton as I've always liked him and been glad to see him succeed, as he's a winner and has some class. But the team he's created is almost pure Mourinho in its approach, with physical thuggery, gamesmanship, surrounding the ref, and always denying any responsibility.

Fair play to Jurgen for keeping his cool in the post match interview, as I can only imagine what Fergie, Mourinho or Guardiola would be like if they had experienced the same levels of ineptitude, injustice and injuries in a single game.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1425 on: October 18, 2020, 11:12:51 am »
It's odd. I'm pretty sure people with a very limited understanding of the rules of football would have sent Pickford off there, so how a professional official missed it is baffling.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1426 on: October 18, 2020, 11:15:11 am »
I'm still fuming at the dirty fucking twats and the utterly baffling decisions, football just doesn't make sense anymore, I don't understand the game anymore it's too confusing and utterly farcical on a game by game basis and as such it would be void of any enjoyment what so ever if it wasn't for the football we play. Something needs to change the game is a joke now and beyond baffling.


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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1427 on: October 18, 2020, 11:16:55 am »
More than anything the officials failed in their duty to protect our players yesterday. If Pickford gets sent off the other challenge doesn't happen, as a marker has been laid down to the yard dogs in how they behave in the game overall. By failing to take action in the first incident it was like they were inviting the Bitters to do whatever they wanted. On the back of that we have lost two players one possibly long-term. There has got to be an official explanation for it. The goal being disallowed was hugely disappointing but it was the failure to protect our players which stings me the most. Its not the first time they have thrown themselves into tackles like that (as have some of our own). A Derby by nature is gritty and means something more which is why markers need to be put down. I hate this other thing they do, by allowing a bad tackle to go unpunished early on, that often sets the whole tone of the game. If its an appalling tackle send them off whether its in the first or the last minute.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1428 on: October 18, 2020, 11:19:41 am »
Who thinks that Liverpool are on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy? I haven't seen anyone on here make reference to that.

What's with certain people comparing us to city fans? I think it's snide, offensive and downright insulting. Instead of hurling insults from the sideline, why don't you lot row in behind the club for a change.

David Coote is either a petty little man who holds grudges against any club that might hurt his fragile, yet colossal ego. Or he is allowing certain factors to impact his ability to carry out work to a professional standard. People can read into that what they want, but the man has already failed a FIFA fitness test this year.

First things first. David Coote needs to be sacked.

Pickford needs a 3 match ban.

VAR needs a complete overhaul. There needs to be cameras running in the booth at all times. A camera on the official and and any other operators. A camera watching the hand movements at all times. Audio feed between the operators, VAR officials and the officials on the pitch that can be listened to by club staff and tv broadcasters. Images used to decided close calls or decisions need to be made available after each match, including the distance calculated by the computer to deem a player on or offside.

We may joke about doing away with VAR, but getting rid of the system would give the likes of David Coote and Martin Atkinson a free run at it without being held accountable.
Great post. Agree completely.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1429 on: October 18, 2020, 11:22:49 am »
A genuine question, and this is meant as a question not a dig

Do you think what went on yesterday was corrupt? As I’m genuinely at the point where I’m struggling to explain it by any other means any ive always been absolutely against the idea that there’s any kind of corruption in the game.

The offside for Mane I can just about levy as apparently it’s to do with his upper arm being offside? But how they can review that challenge on Van Dijk and not even book Pickford for, I’m just at an absolute loss to explain.

In the true sense of the word, nah. The people involved wouldn’t be intelligent enough to pull that off.

I 100% believe that the officials created the result. Considering what’s happened with Coote previously I’d find it hard to believe that he hasn’t done that out of a personal vendetta against us. He’s an appalling ref but you don’t get to that level without at least having some level of competence. Not reviewing the Pickford one demonstrates that he’s just chosen to ignore a blatant red and in the process impacted the game negatively against us. That he doesn’t have to explain himself is just so fucking galling.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1430 on: October 18, 2020, 11:22:58 am »
Trust was broken yesterday.  To deny this, or explain it away as conspiratorial is to change  and contort the experience we all had in front of the television yesterday.

1 of 5 things happened

1. Referee incompetence (entire group)
2. Referee bias linked to the personal (Coote)
3. Referee bias linked to the institutional (FA & Big 6 Proposal Backlash)
4. Mixture of these in varying percentages
5. Referees were correct in their implementation of the rules

And if we look at what occurred as a result

1. Injurious behavior unpunished initially leading to injurious behavior punished but too late
2. A GW goal in the final moments of game (11 v 10) where their player who should have been sent off (Pickford) fumbles a shot by Henderson for a goal - to have it later called offsides not by Oliver, but by Coote.
3. Evidence for the suspected offsides (Mane) is presented poorly but authoritatively in such a way as to try and convince people that Mane was offsides (he was not).

There are a lot of ways to spin this beautiful game, but when we see stuff like this --- trust is broken.   And when trust is broken it is not incumbent upon us to fix the system.  its our job as supporters to share what we saw and make some sense of it.  I am not convinced this is possible without more information. 

We deserve an explanation that honors two knee injuries, the tolerating of horrible shithouse tactics, and the injustice of technocratic intervention to take away a goal that was earned fairly, but not enough referee intervention to protect players.

My antagonism here is more about having to sit with this experience for almost 24 hours before someone who has some authority yesterday can answer simple fucking questions.   
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 11:39:27 am by Trendisdestiny »
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1431 on: October 18, 2020, 11:23:04 am »
I'm still fuming at the dirty fucking twats and the utterly baffling decisions, football just doesn't make sense anymore, I don't understand the game anymore it's too confusing and utterly farcical on a game by game basis and as such it would be void of any enjoyment what so ever if it wasn't for the football we play. Something needs to change the game is a joke now and beyond baffling.

They are sucking the passion out of football season by season now. How long it takes to reach a decision, players (or fans) not knowing when to genuinely celebrate a goal. Even what should be straight forward decisions seem to take forever. What is the excuse for that? The Pickford incident should have been the most easiest decision to make yesterday, yet bizarrely nothing happens at all....
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1432 on: October 18, 2020, 11:23:14 am »
More than anything the officials failed in their duty to protect our players yesterday. If Pickford gets sent off the other challenge doesn't happen, as a marker has been laid down to the yard dogs in how they behave in the game overall. By failing to take action in the first incident it was like they were inviting the Bitters to do whatever they wanted. On the back of that we have lost two players one possibly long-term. There has got to be an official explanation for it. The goal being disallowed was hugely disappointing but it was the failure to protect our players which stings me the most. Its not the first time they have thrown themselves into tackles like that (as have some of our own). A Derby by nature is gritty and means something more which is why markers need to be put down. I hate this other thing they do, by allowing a bad tackle to go unpunished early on, that often sets the whole tone of the game. If its an appalling tackle send them off whether its in the first or the last minute.

What a find the most frustrating is the sheer inconsistency.

How can the game be in a place where we’re microanalysing goals to disallow them on the basis of an upper arm being offside whilst simultaneously reviewing scissor kick and choosing not to even book the culprit for it? I just can’t understand the policy where we’re pedantic on offsides to the ooont of ruining the spectacle and the excitement it generates (as even when the goal does stand your immediate response is usually tempered by the concern that it may get pulled back) whilst allowing career threatening challenges to go unpunished.

I can live with both decisions in isolation, the Pickford challenge isn’t the first leg breaker to go unpunished in a derby (from either side) and the offside for the goal isn’t the first ridiculously pedantic decision, but I can’t accept a world in which both of those two decisions stand. It’s either one or the other surely?

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1433 on: October 18, 2020, 11:25:40 am »
Who thinks that Liverpool are on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy? I haven't seen anyone on here make reference to that.

What's with certain people comparing us to city fans? I think it's snide, offensive and downright insulting. Instead of hurling insults from the sideline, why don't you lot row in behind the club for a change.

Corruption and conspiracy are words that have been thrown around repeatedly in this thread.

It is perfectly possible to support the club and think it was an absolute disgrace of a refereeing performance that needs addressing (and that Everton are a bunch of snidey c*nts), without going down the above route. That is when we start venturing into City territory.

As for the rest of your post I largely agree. Pickford definitely does need a ban or some kind of retrospective action. Having a potentially career ending tackle go completely unpunished needs some public explanation from the officials. VAR definitely needs far more public accountability, including as you say additional mics and cameras. There is no way they should be sitting off in some little box without having to justify publicly their decisions.

Personally I never even wanted VAR in the first place. And ironically one of the reasons we have it is because of popular outcry at repeatedly bad refereeing performances which often came with the same corruption rhetoric. It just goes to show you can have technology, but it is only as good as those running it. And at least pre-VAR they had the excuse. Now it is just infuriating.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1434 on: October 18, 2020, 11:26:36 am »
Had there been a crowd there they probably couldn’t get away with ‘not looking for a foul’ as our fans would’ve been screaming for a penalty and a sending off, and Everton fans would’ve been hurling abuse (& children) at Van Dijk, and calling for a booking for playacting.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1435 on: October 18, 2020, 11:26:50 am »
We have to officially question in any way possible and take it as far as we possibly can.

As do every club who sees similar incidents. Nothing will change until things are questioned.

What criteria is being used for offside and is it correct?
Are there any inconsistencies with applying the criteria?

Change the rule on offside so that if it isn’t clear to the human eye then it’s onside. This drawing of lines to show mm offsides is ridiculous. Anyone who plays football knows that Mane was onside and was not gaining any advantage.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1436 on: October 18, 2020, 11:28:51 am »
What a find the most frustrating is the sheer inconsistency.

How can the game be in a place where we’re microanalysing goals to disallow them on the basis of an upper arm being offside whilst simultaneously reviewing scissor kick and choosing not to even book the culprit for it? I just can’t understand the policy where we’re pedantic on offsides to the ooont of ruining the spectacle and the excitement it generates (as even when the goal does stand your immediate response is usually tempered by the concern that it may get pulled back) whilst allowing career threatening challenges to go unpunished.

I can live with both decisions in isolation, the Pickford challenge isn’t the first leg breaker to go unpunished in a derby (from either side) and the offside for the goal isn’t the first ridiculously pedantic decision, but I can’t accept a world in which both of those two decisions stand. It’s either one or the other surely?

See, this is what usually happens in a football game. There will invariably be two incidents and if a team doesn't get one decision it gets the other, which obviously makes the rival fans unhappy claiming that they did it to even the game up. Yet yesterday neither decision was corrected, which is what is making people suddenly think there is something more to this overall. The authorities have put themselves in a right muddle, which is another reason as to why they have to explain it. I cannot believe just how they can screw everything up so hugely.
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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1437 on: October 18, 2020, 11:30:28 am »
There is a big difference between referees being influenced by certain environmental factors, as will happen to any human referee in any sport ever, and corruption. Corruption implies backhanders or some other financial or political gain with a wider motive.

A referee letting a previous bias consciously or unconsciously cloud their judgement is not the same thing. That is an issue of competence and professionalism.

And I´m sorry, but to think that little old LFC, one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world, is on the receiving end of some grand conspiracy is straight up bullshit on a level with City fans crying foul at everything and anything.

No, it isn’t straight up bullshit, and it’s nowhere near the same level as City fans’ caterwauling.

Is it “corruption” on the level of taking a bribe. Nah, of course not. But people are rightfully upset, as we may have lost Virgil for the bulk of the season, and Thiago as well, in a Derby where there were Duncan Fergusons all over the pitch in blue. And a blatant mistake by the referee *and* the VAR ref leaving Pickford without punishment and the sides 11 v 11 for the bulk of the match over the same incident that injured Virgil; the nature of Richarlison’s tackle on Thiago; and the ridiculous Offside/VAR interpretation at the end are all just rubbing salt in a still open wound.

As someone who’s followed the Reds for almost half a century whilst living all over the planet but is not a Scouser, I can tell you that there is a persistent perception amongst even non-football followers that people from Merseyside are somehow whiny, full of self-pity, on the dole etc. I have supposedly educated friends from all over the UK who refer to Scousers as “bin dippers”.

Is it a “grand conspiracy” along the lines of “The FA/the Illuminati/Elvis Presley has a pact to screw LFC”? No. It’s incompetence by refs, yes. The FA has also repeatedly shown itself to be a necrotic, incompetent ship of fools over the years. But it’s also biases, conscious and unconscious that have led to a perception of Scousers that could not be further from the truth from my experience on every visit to Merseyside, where the people are the most genuine I’ve met after visiting nearly 100 countries.

If you doubt the above, what do you call the events for decades after Hillsborough? I’d call that a conspiracy against LFC and the club’s supporters that involved everyone from the South Yorkshire police to 10 Downing. And it shouldn’t surprise anyone because the way the central government and Londoners in general have treated the Northwest since the 70s is worse than a conspiracy, even before Thatcher’s infamous quote. I think Andy Burnham might agree with me on that one at the moment as well.

To me, the worst thing on a forum that purports to be for the passionate supporters of a football club are the posters who try to come across as the “sensible, even handed, dispassionate ones” and disparage passionate fans who are clearly just being rightfully emotional in the heat of the moment. I hear they welcome those types of LFC “supporters” on the Caf.

(Edited to reflect almost 50 years, not 5 of support.)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 11:37:31 am by Reds4Wolves2 »

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1438 on: October 18, 2020, 11:31:25 am »
I visit this thread on its 36th page and haven't read it all so apologies for no doubt repeating what others have said but I am still seething and so need to vent it.

How in the fuck is that offside? VAR is ruining our game. We watch football for goals, for attacking play but this thing is looking at anything and everything to take that away. Not only are we now not fully celebrating as we await the inevitable VAR review BUT it's actually chalking off perfectly legitimate goals. There is no way on God's earth that that goal should have been disallowed and I will disagree forever with any person who says otherwise. I have watched football for 40+ years, a shitload of football, and this thing is ruining it.

That was a dramatic 3.2 away win yesterday and that bullshit nonsense stole 2 points from us.

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Re: PL: Everton 2 v The Champions 2 Mane 2' Keane 19’ Mo 71’ Calvert ‘80
« Reply #1439 on: October 18, 2020, 11:43:56 am »
David Coote needs to be held responsible. We've lost 2 points purely down to him. Pickford should have gone. Again down to him. Refs need to be held accountable for such obvious errors.

Absolutely. Is there any other profession (apart from government) where you are not expected to be accountable for your actions at work? In this age of technology, there is no need for smoke and mirrors anymore. Their decisions need to be laid bare after every game and they should be permitted to fully explain every controversial decision, backed up with the pictures, technology and evidence they used to make it. Is that such an unreasonable thing to ask for?
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