Author Topic: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC - pointless speculation in here please...  (Read 174844 times)

Offline Twitter.com

  • 140 character limitation. Laugh now but one day he'll be in chorge. Media junkie.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,477
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #880 on: June 4, 2015, 11:50:40 pm »
Liverpool news: Brendan Rodgers will reshuffle backroom staff following first team coach Mike Marsh's exit

Former Liverpool player Marsh has not had his contract renewed and has been released by the club following an assessment of coaching staff


By Chris Bascombe

Brendan Rodgers will reshuffle his backroom team during the summer following the departure of first team coach Mike Marsh.

Marsh, a former Liverpool player, has not had his contract renewed and has been released by the club following an assessment of the coaching staff.

He is the only high profile departure so far following the club’s end of season review, opening a vacancy among Rodgers’ inner circle.

Marsh was promoted by Rodgers when the Northern Irishman took over in 2012, having earlier worked at the club’s Academy.

Rodgers’ current assistant is Colin Pascoe, but he will now consider who to approach to strengthen his coaching team.

There has been pressure since the end of the season for Rodgers to add more experience to his staff. There are some who want him to look to some of the club’s vast contingent of legendary former players to retain the essence of Anfield's bootroom culture – the Liverpool manager said he wanted both Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher to join the coaching ranks at some point in the future.

Gerrard will return to the club in some capacity after his spell at LA Galaxy, while Carragher is now committed to his media duties.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11653114/Liverpool-news-Brendan-Rodgers-will-reshuffle-backroom-staff-following-first-team-coach-Mike-Marshs-exit.html

Right. The Mike Marsh story going round, even if from Mirror, has reference in it about his feelings according to his mates and the fucking shitty rag

Now if you think it's appropriate to reference it then it's worthwhile reading the feedback topic about sources and news article references. It should help change your mind

Bascombe with this story now.
^ That's what you get for posting twitter shite kids.

Offline Johns_Barn

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,261
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #881 on: June 4, 2015, 11:58:58 pm »
I'm gonna keep this simple but I've now read through virtually every post in these threads and the one thing that really emerges from them - and this is from a really old school supporter - is that the degree to which people are over complicating a simple situation is staggering.

As I've said till I'm blue in the face, the essence of last season's debacle and particularly the end collapse was down to the irresponsible shortcoming of the club in the summer and again in the winter to provide the manager/team on the pitch with an attack worthy of the name. The sole attackers - coutinho and Sterling - burnt themselves out by March.

And er...that's it.

Next season I'm sure the fuckin imbeciles running the club who allowed that utter fucking debacle to exist for an entire season without doing a fucking thing to remedy it, will I'm sure have realised the error of their ways and the team on the pitch will actually once more resemble a properly balanced football team with an attack worthy of the name.

But with owners/a manager/recruitment team so green it all feels like the blind leading the blind to some degree. Could it be that a very experienced, successful manager or DoF* with the knowledge/gravitas in and of the game could tell FSG exactly where the current structure is failing and have the personality to enforce positive change at the club? I think many are scared that status quo sees us falling back so far it'd be another generation before we could get back to where we want to be. The club's heirachy looks like it's in a feedback loop that can't be broken without some kind of outside intervention if that makes sense?

* Not agitiating, the decision has been made and I will continue my support of the team and all it's supporting cast.

Offline Shady Craig

  • 'Arry's Tax Lawyer. T'riffic. Hush, hush, eye to eye. When will he, will he be famous? I can't answer that!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,272
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #882 on: June 4, 2015, 11:59:53 pm »
Is Meulsteen still available?

Rodgers probably wouldn't give over control to a experienced coach as he takes control of that himself doesn't he, worth considering maybe though.

Offline number 168

  • Bootle - Aigburth Vale. Mon-Sat evenings, Sundays & Bank Holidays only. Arl fart clearly past his sell-his-season-ticket-by-date.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,209
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #883 on: June 4, 2015, 11:59:57 pm »
So Rodgers has agreed to sacrifce Marsh to keep his job. No problem with that as Marsh was completely devoid of top level experience. What about his brother in law, a man of very limited experience and who seems to offer absolutely nothing? It is essential that novice Rogers is surrounded by people of experience and quality.  However who would want those jobs given the arrogance of Rodgers e.g. there is nobody better than me to be Liverpool manager, as we limp to sixth? 

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #884 on: June 5, 2015, 12:03:54 am »
I think many are scared that status quo sees us falling back so far it'd be another generation before we could get back to where we want to be.
We were top of the league 12 freakin months ago. We only miss one single player from that time. Somebody in the club had to do something right to make that happen and here you talk about generational decline ffs.

Offline Mr_Morosoph

  • Moaning bed wetter, cry wanks for Torres
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,479
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #885 on: June 5, 2015, 12:05:11 am »
A few more fall guys are probably needed. The performance analysts and sport scientists are probably a nervous wreck right now.
"I was pleased also with Peter Crouch. We have been talking to him, before and after his nose operation, to show more confidence with his heading.
 
"Now it seems to have worked. Lets say that if he has a few games without scoring again, maybe we should arrange to break his nose again."

Rafa.

Offline stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,363
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #886 on: June 5, 2015, 12:06:24 am »
Sorry to see Mike Marsh go but the manager needs strong people around him. He needs to get rid of people who he feels aren't helping him enough as he now knows that he cannot mess up again.

I want to see more changes as it has been obvious that the whole club needs a shake up.

I have been a fan of Rodgers but he must get things right and must show a big improvement. Any weak people at the club or weak players must be replaced otherwise Rodgers will be replaced. I think he is extremely lucky to be still at the club but he needs to now be ruthless.

For the first time since the gloomy days of G&H I am concerned and I feel that we are going backwards. We need a couple of really good signings to bring a buzz back to the first team.
#JFT97

Offline Johns_Barn

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,261
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #887 on: June 5, 2015, 12:06:32 am »
Can Brendan turn the supporters around? Of course -with results! If he finishes top four next year everyone will be nice and happy again.

I really hope they make some changes in how we recruit players, because it's as bad as ever with no sign of improvement.


I'm certain performances will do it. I'd take top 8/9 at christmas if we're attempting the 13/14 style of footie. We've all seen the runs he's put together in every season he's been here. But if it's bland sideways non-penetration possession football averaging >1.8ppg then I fear the fans turning.

Offline Gifted Right Foot

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,375
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #888 on: June 5, 2015, 12:10:04 am »
I've now read through virtually every post in these threads

You poor soul.  Fair play to ya  ;D.

Offline Asam

  • has a mankini
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,883
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #889 on: June 5, 2015, 12:13:05 am »

Would Rodgers work with Sami Hyppia? I think he'd be the perfect assistant coach and knows a thing or two about defending, still young enough to have the respect of all the players

Offline Dougle

  • and the bleu cat!
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #890 on: June 5, 2015, 12:18:14 am »
So Rodgers has agreed to sacrifce Marsh to keep his job. No problem with that as Marsh was completely devoid of top level experience. What about his brother in law, a man of very limited experience and who seems to offer absolutely nothing? It is essential that novice Rogers is surrounded by people of experience and quality.  However who would want those jobs given the arrogance of Rodgers e.g. there is nobody better than me to be Liverpool manager, as we limp to sixth?

This could be just the beginning of a set of coaching and (hopefully) general club organisational changes. I hope it's a sign, not only of FSG insistance, but BR own reflection. I hope he takes it and does bring in someone who has stature and whom the players will respect professionally. I have always got the impression MMarsh and CPascoe were just nodding lapdogs on the side. I never once saw them approach Rodgers with any opinion or thought. If BR repeats his efforts of this season again he's gone so I think he'd be wise to sidestep arrogance and allign everything towards getting results. If he can contain himself and focus on preparing a team for the 38 cup finals we have next season then he gives himself the best chance at making his story and career at Anfield a success. Get someone else in to take the load off of him, particularly around the cups and the EL. He's tried it one way and really it has not worked, he's not stupid ... I hope.
I don't think this is the end of the changes either.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,462
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #891 on: June 5, 2015, 12:19:25 am »
I never once saw them approach Rodgers with any opinion or thought.

Why would you of seen it?

Offline Twitter.com

  • 140 character limitation. Laugh now but one day he'll be in chorge. Media junkie.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,477
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #892 on: June 5, 2015, 12:20:05 am »
Discuss Mike Marsh's departure and backroom staff reshuffling here:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=321616.0

Cheers  :wave
^ That's what you get for posting twitter shite kids.

Offline Dougle

  • and the bleu cat!
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #893 on: June 5, 2015, 12:21:49 am »
Sorry to see Mike Marsh go but the manager needs strong people around him. He needs to get rid of people who he feels aren't helping him enough as he now knows that he cannot mess up again.

I want to see more changes as it has been obvious that the whole club needs a shake up.

I have been a fan of Rodgers but he must get things right and must show a big improvement. Any weak people at the club or weak players must be replaced otherwise Rodgers will be replaced. I think he is extremely lucky to be still at the club but he needs to now be ruthless.

For the first time since the gloomy days of G&H I am concerned and I feel that we are going backwards. We need a couple of really good signings to bring a buzz back to the first team.
[/b]

And the squad need a couple of good signings in the coaching and management "team".
Spot on post.

Offline Beninger

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,219
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #894 on: June 5, 2015, 12:21:54 am »
So Rodgers has agreed to sacrifce Marsh to keep his job. No problem with that as Marsh was completely devoid of top level experience. What about his brother in law, a man of very limited experience and who seems to offer absolutely nothing? It is essential that novice Rogers is surrounded by people of experience and quality.  However who would want those jobs given the arrogance of Rodgers e.g. there is nobody better than me to be Liverpool manager, as we limp to sixth? 
If he had showed meekness you'd have had a go then too.  Because it doesn't really matter what he says or what he does for some people.
* * * * * *

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #895 on: June 5, 2015, 12:22:01 am »
Would Rodgers work with Sami Hyppia? I think he'd be the perfect assistant coach and knows a thing or two about defending, still young enough to have the respect of all the players
That's a good call! Which means we will probably not see it happen.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Dougle

  • and the bleu cat!
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #896 on: June 5, 2015, 12:28:35 am »
Why would you of seen it?

You've never seen any "assistant" have a quick chat with the manager or head coach while the game is on ?

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,462
  • YNWA
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #897 on: June 5, 2015, 12:32:39 am »
You've never seen any "assistant" have a quick chat with the manager or head coach while the game is on ?

I've seen that plenty of times, I've seen Rodgers and both Pascoe and Marsh have discussions during the match.

Just confused how you'd know the content of these discussions and that they'd not offered a different insight or thought.

Offline Miltonred

  • Does the "M" in Mod stand for morons?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,616
  • Super Title: Does the M in Milton stand for Moron?
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #898 on: June 5, 2015, 12:37:57 am »
But with owners/a manager/recruitment team so green it all feels like the blind leading the blind to some degree. Could it be that a very experienced, successful manager or DoF* with the knowledge/gravitas in and of the game could tell FSG exactly where the current structure is failing and have the personality to enforce positive change at the club? I think many are scared that status quo sees us falling back so far it'd be another generation before we could get back to where we want to be. The club's heirachy looks like it's in a feedback loop that can't be broken without some kind of outside intervention if that makes sense?

* Not agitiating, the decision has been made and I will continue my support of the team and all it's supporting cast.
Jesus do you have a fucking MBA in management bullshit or have you just swallowed the complete works of Tom Peters?

Either way you fancy yourself a better strategist than billionaires Tom Werner and John Henry!!

Offline Shady Craig

  • 'Arry's Tax Lawyer. T'riffic. Hush, hush, eye to eye. When will he, will he be famous? I can't answer that!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,272
That's a good call! Which means we will probably not see it happen.
Very good call and yes because of that very unlikely to happen. It bloody should though, he'd be perfect.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,462
  • YNWA
Very good call and yes because of that very unlikely to happen. It bloody should though, he'd be perfect.

Is he perfect though?

I mean he's an ex-red which is an obvious massive tick, however he is also a very inexperienced coach still so would he be the one to step up and correct Rodgers or fill in the gaps where Rodger's own inexperience shows?

Also, and it's a genuine question as I've not followed the teams he has coached closely enough, but how well has he managed to set them up defensively? As we all know a top player doesn't always maketh a top coach.

Offline faisfais

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #901 on: June 5, 2015, 02:04:55 am »
Still baffled at how a top club manager can keep his job despite making only 8 points in the last 9 games (business end) of a season. I just cannot imagine how he can turn it around next season. June 17th may well decide his fate.

Offline Macphisto80

  • The Picasso of RAWK. But wants to shag Charlie Brooker. Go figure! Wants to hear about bi-curious Shauno's fantasies.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,737
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #902 on: June 5, 2015, 02:08:30 am »
Still baffled at how a top club manager can keep his job despite making only 8 points in the last 9 games (business end) of a season. I just cannot imagine how he can turn it around next season. June 17th may well decide his fate.
No it won't. He's here for the foreseeable.

And if clubs were in the business of exchanging managers every time they hit a slump, then you'd see clubs go through managers every 3 months. No job would be tenable.

Offline Twelfth Man

  • Rhianna fan. my arse! Someone fill me in. Any takers? :) We are the fabulous CFC...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,012
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #903 on: June 5, 2015, 02:28:39 am »
Still baffled at how a top club manager can keep his job despite making only 8 points in the last 9 games (business end) of a season. I just cannot imagine how he can turn it around next season. June 17th may well decide his fate.
What is happening on June 17?
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline faisfais

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #904 on: June 5, 2015, 02:35:54 am »
What is happening on June 17?

2015/2016 fixture list comes out at that time.

Offline faisfais

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #905 on: June 5, 2015, 02:45:40 am »
No it won't. He's here for the foreseeable.

And if clubs were in the business of exchanging managers every time they hit a slump, then you'd see clubs go through managers every 3 months. No job would be tenable.

If he had 8 points from the first 9 games, and came back to secure 60+ points last season it would be different. With the injury to Sturridge, Suarez departure, and arrival of a fresh group of players, and team tactics in flux - that poor return would be perfectly understandable (if not mildly tolerated). But the way his "third" season ended it was very difficult to see how he can inspire a team next season. I just don't see it.

Offline artanis

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,400
  • It is what it is.
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #906 on: June 5, 2015, 03:24:45 am »
I think keepeing BR is a mistake.
I was in favor of sacking at xmass and the 13 game unbeaten run did not change my opinion much. It was based on 3 man CB defense and did not produce goals. Once we were found out everything went to crap.
Considering the embarrasing 9-2 trashing in the last two games by mid table dross I thought he is gone for sure.
I support LFC. I want LFC to succeed. If that happens under this manager then great but I just do not see it.
I see us being somewhere between 7th and 10th place at the end of November at which point the position will become untennable. He has already lost the players and I do not know how he will get them back. Klopp sitting there on his "vacation" will loom large.
My expectations for next season are the lowest they have ever been. Oh, and then there's Ings and Benteke.
Jesus wept.
 

Offline LiverBirdKop

  • A moron. Twice. No flies on their nullshit
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,362
  • 51,077 Deleted
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #907 on: June 5, 2015, 03:25:44 am »
Jesus do you have a fucking MBA in management bullshit or have you just swallowed the complete works of Tom Peters?

Either way you fancy yourself a better strategist than billionaires Tom Werner and John Henry!!
Since when is Werner a billionaire??

Offline Number 7

  • Gegenpresser
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,987
  • And the sweet silver song of a lark..
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #908 on: June 5, 2015, 03:28:57 am »
Keeping Rodgers is the right decision. The last thing the club needs right now is more upheaval, and there is no guarantee it wouldn't have been worse with whoever came in. I think stability is very important right now. The thing Rodgers needs to do is ensure what happened at Stoke and in some other games last season never happens again, which is essentially that the players stopped playing. That cannot never be repeated again, and he has to be ruthless in demanding that from his players. Set a standard at the beginning of the season that lack of fight and lack of bottle will not be accepted. If the players looked back at the Villa semi final they should rightly be ashamed of themselves.

The other thing is that the transfers this summer have to be right, because if they aren't and the team gets off to a bad start then he's likely gone anyway whether we like it or not.

Milner is a good start, and Clyne will be a good start. 2 very good players who will instantly improve the first 11. Ings is a mistake and Benteke will be a terrible mistake if we pay £30m+ for him, even though he's not a bad player. Don't spend the entire summer looking for a striker and then panic in the last few weeks.
YWNA

Offline Stout

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #909 on: June 5, 2015, 04:10:06 am »
Got a notice that my post yesterday had a lack of respect for "the manager"...and was asked to modify it.  However it was already deleted, so I'm unable to do as requested.   Sad.  My post clearly pointed out that FSG had painted Rodgers into the unfavorable corner and that his time here is set up to fail. No disrespect for the manager at all.  After a good spell here at RAWK, I didn't realize you had to toe the line and speak favorably at all times.  I enjoyed listening to other opinions, and thought I was respectfully giving my own.  I respect the duties an admin has of a board of this volume, but think you are a bit zealous here.  I guess I'm now about to Walk Alone...

Offline Historical Fool

  • A fool in the present too. The ban on drivel from 666 has led to a remarkable increase in forum quality. Currently being spectacularly wooshed. Seemingly by, well, just about everything.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,397
  • FSG EOTM June ‘23
    • Fenway Sports Group
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #910 on: June 5, 2015, 04:12:35 am »
Got a notice that my post yesterday had a lack of respect for "the manager"...and was asked to modify it.  However it was already deleted, so I'm unable to do as requested.   Sad.  My post clearly pointed out that FSG had painted Rodgers into the unfavorable corner and that his time here is set up to fail. No disrespect for the manager at all.  After a good spell here at RAWK, I didn't realize you had to toe the line and speak favorably at all times.  I enjoyed listening to other opinions, and thought I was respectfully giving my own.  I respect the duties an admin has of a board of this volume, but think you are a bit zealous here.  I guess I'm now about to Walk Alone...

I would suggest you take it up in a pm to one of the mods, or post on the RAWK Feedback forum. Sometimes misunderstandings are misunderstandings, and given the sheer volume of the stuff that the mods have to read through some may fall through the cracks.
Tubby thinks PGMOL are awesome..

And tubby is always right

Offline phoenician

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #911 on: June 5, 2015, 04:40:20 am »
I've seen that plenty of times, I've seen Rodgers and both Pascoe and Marsh have discussions during the match.

Just confused how you'd know the content of these discussions and that they'd not offered a different insight or thought.

Occam wants his razor back, mate.

Offline fefs

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,823
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #912 on: June 5, 2015, 05:43:15 am »
This mornings Guardian running a story saying that Rodgers staying was a condition of Milner moving.
Mentions Ings too

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/04/james-milner-liverpool-brendan-rodgers

Offline HardworkDedication

  • Hardwork and Dedication linked to many stories - Mingebag. Has no opinion of his own. Human news ticker tape.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,970
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #913 on: June 5, 2015, 07:27:03 am »
LIVERPOOL: WITHOUT AUTHORITY BRENDAN RODGERS IS SUNK

by Roy Henderson // 4 June 2015 // 21 Comments

SO Brendan Rodgers remains the manager of Liverpool Football Club. We wish him well, and cross our fingers. But me? I think he’s sunk. Before he starts, I mean — he’s sunk. “Why?”, I hear you ask. Well, if a manager is going to lead, he has to have authority. And right now, I’m not sure he has it. Players, fans, media — does anyone feel confident in his mandate?

A manager must lead. And to lead, he needs the consent of those who are supposed to follow him. To do that at Liverpool, right now, after everything that’s just gone on, he needs authority. His authority must be beyond question. And there’s the rub. You see, on the day he walked through the door, the club sowed seeds of doubt that would ultimately germinate and undermine his authority. The seedlings continue to grow.

Authority is in the eye of the beholder — if we perceive it, he can achieve it. A clever man called Max Weber once theorised that there are three routes to that perception. So over to Max.

Route 1: Charismatic Authority

With ‘charismatic authority’, the leader has authority because the followers want him to lead them. Rodgers is a naturally likeable, charismatic man, and — whether consciously or not — he set about asserting this kind of authority the moment he came through the door, talking in rich metaphors, and even using pseudo religious language, for example saying about Lucas Leiva: “He’s one of the disciples I would say, he understands totally what we’re doing.” He spent part of his early career working closely with Jose Mourinho, and it’s clear he learned a few things in that respect. If it hadn’t been for Being Liverpool, there’s a chance the feel-good factor around him would have been near unanimous. His man management was good, the senior players liked him and bought into his methods (just Google for quotes from Suarez and Gerrard), and half way into the second season, the away fans really started getting behind him too — we all know the song. Those things are significant: they bolster a manager’s position.

Route 2: Rational-Legal Authority

Most football managers operate in this category. With ‘rational-legal authority’, the leader is backed by a ‘mandate’, bestowed by an accepted source of power that everyone accepts. That mandate might be based on fear, the grudging acceptance of a democratic outcome (give me a moment while I wipe the tear from my eye), or the collective preservation of interconnected vested interest (see Sepp Blatter for maybe the best example we’ve seen of this in recent times). With ‘rational-legal authority’, there are rules and routines that the followers all subscribe to, grudgingly or otherwise, and the leader leads in accordance with those rules.

Against that backdrop, a manager can expect at least a brief spell in charge: the people with the power appoint them, set out the rules and tell them what’s expected of them, and after a spell, if they haven’t delivered, the authority will eventually be withdrawn. The white hankies come out, the dreaded vote of confidence gets passed, fans start shouting at each other in the stands and on social media… we all know the pattern well enough by now.

So what was Brendan’s mandate? And what were the rules? Well, Rodgers came in with what seemed as clear a mandate as any Liverpool manager has had in recent times. The Chairman and Managing Director rolled out the reddest of red carpets, with a press conference talking of a new era of “attacking, relentless football”. This followed the most public of private pursuits in living memory, with rebukes for Dave Whelan, lattes with Martinez, and Rodgers supposedly rejecting the job three times before accepting. He wouldn’t work with a Director Of Football, you see.

But there, lurking beneath the surface, lay the seeds of doubt: Liverpool told him there would be no Director of Football; but the reality would prove from the outset to be very different — it just turned out to be a Committee rather than a single person.

The second crucial aspect was acceptance on the part of those he was supposed to lead. That includes the fans. Did we, the fans, accept it? Rodgers’ appointment was set against the backdrop of an ignominious sacking for possibly the second most significant figure in the club’s history and, not only that — they did it after he’d won the club’s first trophy in six years.

It’s fair to say that some weren’t convinced, and it would barely have mattered who took the helm, let alone someone who had never won a trophy beyond the Football League Championship Play-Offs in his career. Being Liverpool compounded things — some set out into the new era with an agenda, and the “Brenton Rodgers” meme became a convenient stick to beat him with.

So Brendan’s mandate was relatively strong; but the seeds of doubt were sewn the day he took the job — all it took was a change in the weather for the seeds to germinate and take root.

Route 3: Traditional Authority

We won’t spend long on this one. With ‘traditional authority’, you see, the leader has authority because it’s become routine — no one questions — everyone just accepts it. Only a handful of managers in the history of the game have ever achieved that kind of security (for example, Shankly, Paisley and Ferguson) and even then, it all still relied on them continuing to meet expectations, or for them to massage them down to sustainable levels (for example, Clough and McLean). It’s doubtful any manager will get close to this again, albeit Wenger comes close.

So back to Brendan. In his early months in the job, he proved himself adept at bolstering his authority — taking potential challenges in his stride. He engineered Andy Carroll’s departure gracefully, and quickly shifted out players he didn’t see as fitting in with his style. His handling of Jamie Carragher’s final year at the club was exemplary — the player never having a bad word to say about the man, and when Luis Suarez agitated for a move, he proved himself firm and resolute, the player despatched to train with the reserves. Meanwhile, we all saw his handling of young players, albeit possibly in too much detail (again, thanks to Being Liverpool). The man could handle people, albeit sometimes in an overly touchy feely way.

Rodgers did as much as he feasibly could to bolster his authority. His relationship with the majority of the media was strong, and he demonstrated his charisma at every turn. And then, of course, 2013-14 happened. There were doubts, but from White Hart Lane on, performances on the park blew them away. Or so we thought. We’re fickle buggers, aren’t we?

You see, the doubts continued to grow. His stated mandate, unveiled amidst great fanfare, was as clear as mud. In fact, you might go as far as to say it was a tissue of lies. He had no Director of Football, that much was true; but still he found himself directed and fettered. A manager lives and dies by his work in the transfer market, it’s often said, but the summer of 2014 betrayed the fetters that the club had put in place — reasonable fetters had they been explicitly stated and agreed to at the outset, of course, but there was the rub — they’d never been explicitly agreed to.

And so season 2014-15 started, and we all know the story from there. Fast forward to Madrid… then Juan Mata… then Wembley… then The Britannia. Fast forward to two weeks of speculation, with deafening silence from the very men his perceived authority relies upon. Fast forward to coordinated briefings to newspapers on the ongoing pursuit of transfer targets (“You mean we’re signing players? Who’s making the decisions?”). Fast forward to a trip to Boston… or would the Bostonians come to Liverpool? Nobody really knew. And then they arrived, and the self same papers told us in unison that a plan had been written. Nobody knew who wrote it, or what was in it. Nobody knew the direction the club was going to take. But the manager ‘was safe’.

Ian Herbert went further, saying, “Rodgers has signed up to plans which have been laid for an improvement.” That hinted at the manager having passively agreed to a fundamental change in his mandate — the terms of his role. But nobody was told how it would work.

We’d seen talk of them explicitly imposing a Director of Football structure upon him, in direct contravention of the terms of his acceptance in 2012. So where does that leave Rodgers? Nobody really knows.

And there’s the rub. If they’re going to change the terms of his mandate, where does that leave our perception of his authority? Do we feel he’s in a position to lead the club forward? Raheem Sterling agitates for a move away, Balotelli continues with his naughtiness, and as things stand, it doesn’t look like Rodgers fancies half his squad in the first place. So how are the players supposed to see things? And by extension, how are we? Perception is everything, and the minute doubts come in, we have a problem.

The players, fans and media smell blood, and because of that, there is zero margin for error as we go into the new season.

It’s for that reason I think he’s sunk. Things will inevitably dip — and the minute that happens, the knives will come out  in earnest this time. We don’t see Gordon and Werner doing a Silvio Berlusconi, do we? Berlusconi put the fear of God into the AC Milan players and told them — you do what he tells you or you’re out. Look what happened there — that’s a clear mandate.

As it stands, Rodgers needs something similar, or we’ll be looking for another manager by Christmas.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2015/06/liverpool-without-authority-brendan-rodgers-sunk/?wt=4

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,265
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #914 on: June 5, 2015, 08:47:06 am »
Got a notice that my post yesterday had a lack of respect for "the manager"...and was asked to modify it.  However it was already deleted, so I'm unable to do as requested.   Sad.  My post clearly pointed out that FSG had painted Rodgers into the unfavorable corner and that his time here is set up to fail. No disrespect for the manager at all.  After a good spell here at RAWK, I didn't realize you had to toe the line and speak favorably at all times.  I enjoyed listening to other opinions, and thought I was respectfully giving my own.  I respect the duties an admin has of a board of this volume, but think you are a bit zealous here.  I guess I'm now about to Walk Alone...


Or drop one of us a PM or open a thread in Feedback to discuss it? I didn't delete it so don't know the full circumstances.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,343
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #915 on: June 5, 2015, 08:49:59 am »
LIVERPOOL: WITHOUT AUTHORITY BRENDAN RODGERS IS SUNK



It’s for that reason I think he’s sunk. Things will inevitably dip — and the minute that happens, the knives will come out  in earnest this time. We don’t see Gordon and Werner doing a Silvio Berlusconi, do we? Berlusconi put the fear of God into the AC Milan players and told them — you do what he tells you or you’re out. Look what happened there — that’s a clear mandate.

As it stands, Rodgers needs something similar, or we’ll be looking for another manager by Christmas.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2015/06/liverpool-without-authority-brendan-rodgers-sunk/?wt=4

Decent read that.  Have to confess I thought he'd be gone, more by 'embracing' a sacking.  I.e. by mutual agreement, but without quitting which impacts any sort of pay off.  Unless the entire structure was altered in his favour including having less people involved with transfers, etc, then I was surprised he agreed to stay. 

On the positive front he must be confident he can deliver otherwise he risks further damage to a reputation which around about this time last year was sky high.  It would have been easy to exit, take the pay off, and point to other influences impacting the performance this year, such as also pointing out that fast incisive play as seen in 13/14 depends on the right type of player and movement up front, which wasn't there 14/15.

Offline KillieRed

  • Jaro a.k.a. goatjumpingqueuefucker
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,209
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #916 on: June 5, 2015, 09:22:15 am »
Are we being purposefully downgraded?

Just looking at where our owners group are shopping.

2nd Tier Managers and 2nd Tier Transfer Targets (at best).

It just makes me think that they have a different opinion of our status as a football club than we do.



Are they doing a subtle Mike Ashley? Keeping the club ticking over on a firm financial footing, doing enough to keep the income streams coming, but not really caring about challenging at the very top of the league? A lot of the American owners seem to have a similar approach; Ellis Short at Sunderland, Randy Lerner at Villa (once he realised he couldn't bridge the gap), even the Glazers at United (who spend large wads, because they generate large wads, but see the need to speculate to accumulate. Or panic spend, if you prefer). Joe Lewis at Spurs (a British national living abroad) seems to have a similar outlook, but has an ambitious Chairman there who seems to want to try and storm the top 4 occasionally.


Do FSG even care about football and club, beyond what it generates for their coffers?

If they don`t we would be better off with a dirty petrodollar owner, who at least enjoy the game and perhaps put something back into the community.

At the moment I am getting more than a whiff of H&G from this lot.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline L666KOP

  • Wants everyone to fuck off. Especially you. Yes YOU! Too Tender for Tinder. Would swallow his knob on a genuine fuck up.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,116
Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #917 on: June 5, 2015, 09:31:06 am »
Got a notice that my post yesterday had a lack of respect for "the manager"...and was asked to modify it.  However it was already deleted, so I'm unable to do as requested.   Sad.  My post clearly pointed out that FSG had painted Rodgers into the unfavorable corner and that his time here is set up to fail. No disrespect for the manager at all.  After a good spell here at RAWK, I didn't realize you had to toe the line and speak favorably at all times.  I enjoyed listening to other opinions, and thought I was respectfully giving my own.  I respect the duties an admin has of a board of this volume, but think you are a bit zealous here.  I guess I'm now about to Walk Alone...

If it was the one that said [paraphrase] "seat warmer for Klopp" then you surely understand why it was deleted ?

They may well be your thoughts, and I know that's what others think. But a little bit of expansion on your statement would have helped your cause. Reading through the thread there are more damning posts than yours, that have escaped censure, but instead of a one liner the poster has explained his thoughts, and how he got there.

In fact the article that Royhendo wrote is far more damning than your throwaway one liner.

It's not a starred thread, but with it being such a 'hot topic' then I'm guessing the mods want to provoke a decent level of conversation.
 :)
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline KillieRed

  • Jaro a.k.a. goatjumpingqueuefucker
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,209
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #918 on: June 5, 2015, 09:37:04 am »
Oh behave, FFS. Jesus Christ. Other than the plentiful investment in the team, a giant new structure being built out the back of the Main Stand, the fact they stood by their manager, the fact we're as liquid as we've been since David Moores sold the club (possibly before, I don't remember the specifics), the fact we're performing better commercially than we ever have done before...

They're not perfect. They've got some things wrong. But have a fucking word with yourself if you think there's anything resembling those two cowboys about them. It shows nothing but your complete lack of understanding of business.

You got that bit right. I bow to your greater knowledge.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,720
Re: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC after positive talks with owners
« Reply #919 on: June 5, 2015, 09:45:13 am »
That's an excellent piece from Roy and nails the problems, although I'd dispute that he had charismatic authority from the get-go. He had the boost that any new manager receives and he had the backing of the two people with real charismatic authority at the club, and I suspect if things go badly early on he will miss their presence in the dressing room sorely next season. That, for me, is another reason Rodgers is, indeed, sunk.

We saw the owners act in precisely the same way when they took over. Their instinct was towards continuity - the hope Hodgson could turn things around. Only when a site as restrained as RAWK was writing open letters to them did they spot the inevitable. It's hard to see how this summer's recruitment, the reshuffle, and Brendan 'being safe' dovetail. This has 'fatal compromise' stamped through the core.
« Last Edit: June 5, 2015, 09:51:23 am by No666 »