Author Topic: Fan power, who are the mugs?  (Read 4340 times)

Offline john_mac

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Fan power, who are the mugs?
« on: May 12, 2004, 07:11:46 pm »
I suppose everybody is sick of the site of the words Thai PM and Morgan already but I must say it is very interesting to see a very clear crystallisation of support accross a myriad of websites, each clearly linked to something very different than the respective proposals.

It is difficult to comment on the Thai offer because it remains very unclear; Morgan's offer also has a whole range of ifs and buts. Effectively his position at the end of the day will very much depend on the ability of others to afford to buy responsibility, and it is likely that Morgan will finish in a much stronger position with a far bigger stake in the diluted shareholding of LFC. Crucially shares will also be much more widely available which will also make future purchases and the possibility of takeover bids far more viable.

I can't for  a second pretend to know which would work out better for the club, my own tendancy is to not put too much faith in the supposed market in the far east, so I remain sceptical, at best, as to the true value of merchandising and academy rights in that region.

What is interesting is the approach of the two camps. Moores, as ever, has remained very quiet on the issue, perhaps his dignity sits him in the strongest position of all involved. The businessman in Parry pushes him to want to appear as a revolutionary thinker, the man who brokered the deal, but I can only believe that he will act in a dignified manner and in a way that he believes will be for the good of the club.

Inevitably sceptical of the Thai offer, it really does not ring true, I cannot help but wonder exactly what is in it for them. Anybody who has ever wandered around Bangkok will testify as to the uselessness of copyright, so how much can this merchandising deal truly be worth?

Morgan, by contrast, has a clear strategy to get what he perceives to be the fans on his side. He has not attacked Moores but made it clear his long term am is the chairmanship. He statements have clear implications for Houllier who would count Parry and Moores among his long term allies. Then there is the way in which Morgan has clearly set out to gain local support by entertaining the local press; propaganda in a manner that even Parry could only be proud of.

A clear policy of trying to gain support of the fans is in place, every second sentence involves the words Liverpool fan, talk of bunking in, hitchin' and 'not having two h'pennies to rub together' are a plenty, all spoken in a nice scouse accent. Throw in giving the club back to the fans and promising to underwrite the share issue to the fans and we have a true "man of the people" or do we. Saatchi and Saatchi would be more than proud of this morning's press conference, eagerly watched by everyone of us on Sky.

Then you have the rumours of "ground share" and "PLC status" clearly designed to throw mud at Morgan's campaign. Of course Morgan is in favour diluting the shares - it's the only way he can get any level of control.

I'm not questioning Morgan's loyalty to the club as I would not question that of Moores, but in the whole of this sorry episode I cannot help but question everybody's motives and their ability to tell us the truth. Only a matter of months ago the finanace was apparently in place for the new stadium, now both of the proposals involve setting money aside for the stadium. Apparently champions league football would guarentee our ability to compete financially, now it appears not.

The whole situation is very strange and I can only think that we are being taken for mugs from all quarters. It is a power struggle, pure and simple, with each side trying to win support from respective parties. Why has Parry acted with such haste to secure the Thai deal when it has been around for a long time? We have, after all toured Thailand twice in the last three years. What is in it for the Thais? Academies and merchandising rights? I ask you. Why is Morgan's offer only open for seven days? Hoping to drum up support to put pressure on the board?

In all this I can't help but feel that we are being taken for the mugs in a world of commercial enterprise where they think they can take the shirt off your back and sell you another one. The overwhelming voice in my head says do nothing, WAIT, don't jump in.

As much as I have supported Houllier and the team, I just can't help but feel that someone, or maybe more, is pulling the wool over our eyes somewhere along the line. Fan power ... don't make me laugh!

© john_mac 2004
« Last Edit: May 12, 2004, 07:27:58 pm by Rushian »
We'll See Things They'll Never See

Offline Rashid

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 07:37:24 pm »
I hope you don't mind me replying John but that was a great post. What I find most interesting is in the views of the many different fans.

We have a wide range.

1. Liverpudlians.
2. Out of Towners
3. Those living in Europe
4. Rest of the world

and there are:

1. Those who go to games
2. Those who don't
3. Those who go to a few
4. Those who live too far to go

Etc.

It is really interesting to see the way people are disecting the information they are being fed. My missus woke me up this morning to watch it and I sat there like a school kid listening to Morgan - totally taken in by it - indeed he was saying all the things that I wanted to hear - it seems a perfect scenario for me.

Then looking over all the forums, you could see that people in the Banking industry were disecting it differently, others who like Houllier didn't like the fact that Morgan may want GH out, others would rather someone in Thailand who knows nothing about our club have 30% share because he 'doesn't want any control'.

The fact of the matter is none of us know much about what is going on here and until our board come back and tell us what they are doing then we are all in the wilderness with this one.

One thing I have noticed is that people are comparing the Thai deal with Morgans when clearly the Thai not only gets shares but also ALL our image rights in Thailand - that is massive - the two deals sort of even themselves out.

Personally, Liverpool we must not forget is in Liverpool, and its rather apt that it is owned by people who live in the area and understand what the club is about.

This deal is about MONEY nothing else - for all concerned!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2004, 07:39:25 pm by Rashid »

Offline Rushian

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2004, 07:40:30 pm »
The image rights in Thailand are currently worth diddly squat of 3/4 million a year - that is our TOTAL overseas merchandising revenue for the world.
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Offline Rashid

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2004, 07:41:30 pm »
The image rights in Thailand are currently worth diddly squat of 3/4 million a year - that is our TOTAL overseas merchandising revenue for the world.

BUT can you imagine how much they are worth to Thaksin?

Offline sir roger

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2004, 08:56:44 pm »


BUT can you imagine how much they are worth to Thaksin?
good point rashid  its not really about replica shirt sales total waste of time as we all know, its about the thai prime ministers sattelite company's selling the mighty reds to the thai people on subscription tv. thats where the big bucks are.
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Offline Rushian

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 09:01:01 pm »
its not really about replica shirt sales total waste of time as we all know, its about the thai prime ministers sattelite company's selling the mighty reds to the thai people on subscription tv. thats where the big bucks are.

The overseas rights are owned by the Premier League not Liverpool - we just get 1/20th of whatever they're sold for in every country outside the UK - as such I'm not sure how much influence we'd have to who the League's rights were sold to.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2004, 09:02:38 pm by Rushian »
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Offline Big Ig

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2004, 09:09:46 pm »
I read somewhere, re: image rights etc. that it was more his wanting to put the LFC logo on export Thai produce (they're big on farm produce over there, they've got all the ex-Opium farmers growing all sorts of stuff instead, and it's pretty much wiped out Opium poppy farming over there) which is how he'd justify partly or completely using public money.

The Thai guy's plan looks far less intrusive than Morgan's, and to be honest I don't trust Steve Morgan after his comments - he seems to be pushing all the mob-populist buttons and I find his comments mildly xenophobic, even if he's got a point about the academy... question is, are they really good enough anyway? Plus his plan looks like cracking open a right wasp's nest within LFC, while with the Thai guy, while we'd take some flak for involving ourselves with such an unsavoury character, it's simply a matter of take the money and get on with it... Morgan can buy out the Thai guy in a coupla years time if he really wants it...

Offline redmen77

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2004, 09:25:43 pm »
Good post, although I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.

The Thai offer is clearly one of political propaganda, aimed at securing an election win. What is more disconcerting is the misinformation about how the funds are to be raised, either by public coffers or private consortium's.

In my view, Steve Morgan is first and foremost a Liverpool fan and has the best interests of the club at heart. Yes his motives may be to eventally take over and become chairman but so what, wouldn't any die hard fan want the same.

If I had £61M to invest I would and I would want to have some say in how in was to be spent but ultimately I would do it because from the age of seven, the day we won the fa cup by a 3-0 scoreline I have had a deep love for LFC.

I do believe that Steve Morgans motives are the same - I do hope I'm right.

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Re: Just say NO
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2004, 10:32:49 am »
 :no


The club cannot, and must not accept the Thai offer. There is far more at stake than 70 million pounds. Whether the funds come from the PM or the taxpayer is is irrelevant (although the obfuscation on this matter adds further taint to the deal).  Thaksin Shinawatra   is a brutal and  self-serving Machiavellian. His condemnation by Amnesty and other Human Rights groups is unconditional. Nothing else matters, in the face of this. He had hundreds, thousands of people killed on the suspicion of dealing drugs. They were assasinated by death squads working to quota systems, who weren't too concerned over the actual guilt of those they killed. Still want this man to own part of Liverpool? Those fans who think that we can ignore this and just take the £, that finishing higher in the league or winning trophies, is more important than an ethical stance, are just f***ed. Liverpool FC ceases to be what it should be, and has been, as soon as the club takes this money. And if the choice is between Morgan and Shinawatra, there is no choice. The only way we can exert influence is to email, write or phone Liverpool FC and make our feelings clear. I, for one, will end 25 years of support for Liverpool if the Thai deal goes through, and that should be the stance of all fans. There are more important things than Champions LEague football, and for Michael Owen & c to suggest that all money's good money beggars belief. Its only football, however passionate we are about it. Do the right thing.

Offline Red Moose

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2004, 09:30:53 pm »
 ::)Morgan tries to get the club on the cheap, surprise surprise, you do not become a multi millionaire from bricklayer in one lifetime without seeing an opportunity and trying to exploit it. He needs to raise his offer but then why should he since he is the only acceptable bidder, by that I mean how can the club even consider the money of a mass murderer or his government (since even Shinawatra is not sure which account he is using)
I am saddened that this is what this once great club has been reduced to, touting her wares on a street corner in the hope of some money to keep up with the joneses and only 2 takers since Hawkpoint Pimps Inc were appointed three months ago and of course there was the son of gaddafi who expressed an interest. Well that completes the lineup Terrorist, murderer and conman.
  :'(

Offline MichaelA

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Re: Fan power, who are the mugs?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2004, 01:01:44 pm »
In my view, Steve Morgan is first and foremost a Liverpool fan and has the best interests of the club at heart. Yes his motives may be to eventally take over and become chairman but so what, wouldn't any die hard fan want the same.

This is my biggest concern. He made his fortune in the dispassionate building trade. You cannot necessarily transfer the skills you learn in that business to thos required in running a football club.

So, essentially, you would have a fan on the board reacting passionately without necessarily having the right skills to do the job. The only difference between Steve Morgan and any of the rest of us is that he has a £300m fortune to wave around. That worries me, because I would estimate that 99.9% of our fans know nothing about running a mulitmillion pound, multinational football business, and I would put Morgan in that majority.

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Real money?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2004, 01:48:41 pm »
Even though I'm a villa fan this has to be said. If liverpool are selling this share of the club then it should definitely be to the Thai pm as there will be much more merchandise sold over there and the scouse injecting 73 million has no foreign influence. Look for the long term values liverpool!