Author Topic: Spanish Football  (Read 581349 times)

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4400 on: September 27, 2018, 07:14:24 pm »
Quote
Messi's much better than Hazzard - dont know how many different ways I can say this to you before it penetrates. Doesn't change the fact that it's easier to score more league goals as the main man at one of Spains big 3 (against the comparitive cannon fodder) than it is for the main man at any of the top English clubs in the PL. So it's pointless using La Liga goals scored v PL goals scored as a comparitor.

It's not bloody pointless because the English league being better than the Spanish one is very debatable, but more important the DEFENDING being better in England as if English teams defend like Italian clubs in the Seria circa 1980-2000 is nonsense.

You can compare all you want, the disparity and all of that other bollocks, creating and scoring goals comes down to individual ability and who you are up against, and are you telling me here that the defending is soooooo much bettter in England that you can not compare the goals scored between La Liga and the English league, and that it would be better to compare the 3rd division of English football?

Bollocks.

There is not a big gap between the quality of defending in England to Spain, if anything the defending is worse in England as there is more space to exploit via counter as English sides tend to attack more at times due to the tempo of the game .Even if they didn't, not including the top six sides in England, there are some absolutely garbage sides defensively in England, more than enough to be exploited by the likes of Messi, and certainly not anything superior to what is in Spain.

So yes I can compare the goals scored in Spain to the goals scored in England.

If it was just a matter of Spanish league being so vastly inferior, other players who have graced the Spanish league outside of Messi and Ronaldo, would have been scoring goals like those two have. But they haven't, and not anywhere near consistently [and btw those numbers were goals scored in all competitions not just in La Liga]

Any way you look at your argument, it's ludicrous.


Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4401 on: September 27, 2018, 07:31:29 pm »
It's not bloody pointless because the English league being better than the Spanish one is very debatable, but more important the DEFENDING being better in England as if English teams defend like Italian clubs in the Seria circa 1980-2000 is nonsense.

You can compare all you want, the disparity and all of that other bollocks, creating and scoring goals comes down to individual ability and who you are up against, and are you telling me here that the defending is soooooo much bettter in England that you can not compare the goals scored between La Liga and the English league, and that it would be better to compare the 3rd division of English football?

Bollocks.

There is not a big gap between the quality of defending in England to Spain, if anything the defending is worse in England as there is more space to exploit via counter as English sides tend to attack more at times due to the tempo of the game .Even if they didn't, not including the top six sides in England, there are some absolutely garbage sides defensively in England, more than enough to be exploited by the likes of Messi, and certainly not anything superior to what is in Spain.

So yes I can compare the goals scored in Spain to the goals scored in England.

If it was just a matter of Spanish league being so vastly inferior, other players who have graced the Spanish league outside of Messi and Ronaldo, would have been scoring goals like those two have. But they haven't, and not anywhere near consistently [and btw those numbers were goals scored in all competitions not just in La Liga]

Any way you look at your argument, it's ludicrous.



1) Calm down.

2) It's easier for the main scorer to score loads of goals in a team which has 20x the resources of the average of league A than it is for the main scorer in a team which has 5x the resources of the average of league B. Whether league A is better than league B is irrelevant. What's relevant when discussing how easy it is for a goal scorer at a top club to score league goals is the disparity of resources between that club and the rest of their league.

3) Seriously, calm down. It's not that important.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4402 on: September 27, 2018, 07:55:54 pm »
1) Calm down.

2) It's easier for the main scorer to score loads of goals in a team which has 20x the resources of the average of league A than it is for the main scorer in a team which has 5x the resources of the average of league B. Whether league A is better than league B is irrelevant. What's relevant when discussing how easy it is for a goal scorer at a top club to score league goals is the disparity of resources between that club and the rest of their league.

3) Seriously, calm down. It's not that important.

1. I am calm. I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that I am not calm, I'm at work bored out of me mind at the moment. Why on earth would I be upset? Because I said bollocks a handful of times as you made a baffling claim?

2. You're far too hung on this disparity of resources nonsense when talking about the actual defending in England. Outside of the top six, what side is good at defending? What are some quality defenders that are lingering outside of the usual clubs in England? I'll wait for an answer on a postcard. How have the resources for non top six sides have helped their ability to defend in England? To me its totally irrelevant what resources are available to sides in Spain and England, when the defending in England is poor, not any better than what I see week in and week out in Spain.

Again, as I said, other players would be able to score the volume of goals that Messi and Ronaldo if it was so just down to the La Liga being the equivalent the 3rd division of English football. Which obviously isn't the case.

3. I am calm. It's not my fault you compared the Spanish League to 3rd division piss poor football in England.



Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4403 on: September 27, 2018, 11:23:04 pm »
England currently has 2 top teams (possibly 3 with Chelsea emerging as one) and they have absolutely no problem scoring 3, 4 or 5 goals in the league regularly. ManCity have scored a ton of goals last season. The idea that it is hard to score in England needs to die down. Remember, ManCity's attack is not a patch on Barca or Madrid's attack of the past decade. It is not even close. Yet, they scored about the same number of goals in the very defensive, difficult, high quality Premier league.

You must not watch football enough if you think Messi or Ronaldo would have it hard to match and surpass what Aguero and Salah have been scoring in England. In Pep's team, I see no reason why Messi wouldn't comfortably score more than any of their current attackers.

Finally, the highest level of football is in CL vs other top teams. And just look up the goalscorer stats in Europe. Messi and Ronaldo are by far and away leaders.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 11:30:36 pm by Xxavi »

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4404 on: September 27, 2018, 11:30:20 pm »
By the way, the cliche of "very strong defensively" still exists about Serie A/Italy, too. It stopped being true about 20 years ago now. The football played there is very different (just like everywhere else), many attacking, possession-oriented teams. A lot of very high scoring games. Yet, the cliche persists. They keep talking about how difficult it would be for Ronaldo to match his scoring numbers in Spain. Ronaldo is aging, but this has nothing to do with the quality of Serie A defenses. Their best goalscorers were the likes of Higuain, who couldn't finish to save his life while he was in Spain.

Incidentally, the cliche about teams not caring in Europe is also an often-cited excuse for Serie A teams, too. Just like Premiership teams who qualify and then fail spectacularly in Europe, Italian teams have been using these cliches for a long time now.

The reality, however, is that neither Serie A nor Premiership teams are that great at defending. And yes, their teams care about Europe too. There are much better explanations why they fail in Europe when they do.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4405 on: September 27, 2018, 11:51:08 pm »
I mean stupidity of the idea that Spanish league teams are terrible in defense has been proven so many times it is unfunny. Why aren't Sevilla, Valencia, Celta, Getafe, Espanyol, Athletic Bilbao, Malaga, Villarreal conceding 3-4 goals every time they face mighty Premiership teams in Europe? Look at the list of La Liga teams that played in Europe in the past 10-20 years. They all did VERY well, so well that La Liga held historical lead over other leagues in UEFA coefficients.

Here are some examples:
Getafe 2007-2008 season:
Tottenham Hotspur    1 – 2    Getafe
Getafe    1 – 2    Hapoel Tel Aviv
AaB    1 – 2    Getafe
Getafe    2 – 1    Anderlecht

R32    Greece AEK Athens    3–0    1–1
R16    Portugal Benfica    1–0    2–1
QF    Germany Bayern Munich    3–3 (aet)    1–1

Lowly Getafe beat Benfica, Tottenham and played 2 draws vs mighty Bayern and were only knocked out due to the away goal rule!

Espanyol 2006/07
R32 Espanyol-Livorno 4-1 overall
R16 Espanyol-Maccabi 4-0
R8 Espanyol-Benfica 3-2
R4 Espanyol-Werder 5-1
UEFA Cup final Espanyol-Sevilla 2-2

Malaga 2012/2013
Finished 1st place in their CL group ahead of AC Milan (!, won and drew vs them), Anderlecht and Zenit
R16 Malaga-Porto 2-1 overall
1/4 Malaga-Borussia D 2-3

They went out vs Klopp's Borussia D in the stoppage time.

When we talk about La Liga teams' European performances, most people dismiss the record saying this is due to Barca and Madrid. In realty, Spanish midtable teams that are now seen as "cannon fodder" by some were never easy to play. Hardly ever they rolled over and were pumped by 3, 4 or 5 goals. Meanwhile, there are about 1000 excuses every time a Premiership team fails against some noname team.

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4406 on: September 28, 2018, 12:09:33 pm »
The best players in the world play for those 3 Spanish teams I mentioned. Against a bunch of teams with a tiny fraction of their resources.

Messi would be by far the best player in the PL but the league wouldn't be such a turkey shoot for him - he'd have worse team mates ("the best players in the world play in Spain", remember) and wouldn't have so many turkey shoots, given the more even spread of resources in the PL.

Don’t watch much La Liga I take it?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4407 on: September 29, 2018, 04:08:59 pm »

Barcelona are 1-0 down at home to Athletic Bilbao - half-time. de Marcos the scorer on 41 mins - https://streamja.com/ob0Q

Munir El Haddadi equalises for Barcelona on 84 mins - https://streamja.com/NJOa

1-1, full time.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 05:07:59 pm by oojason »
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Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4408 on: September 29, 2018, 05:09:00 pm »
Barca dropped points for the 3rd consecutive match, cant remember the last time thats happened.


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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4409 on: September 29, 2018, 07:55:17 pm »
Madrid derby just started..

Offline Butter Keks

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4410 on: September 29, 2018, 08:11:50 pm »
Barca dropped points for the 3rd consecutive match, cant remember the last time thats happened.

Good. Fuck them.

Hope they finish fifth and go out of the Champions League in the first knockout round.

Offline Lastrador

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4411 on: September 29, 2018, 09:09:30 pm »
Diego Costa has been atrocious today.

Offline ElCapo

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4412 on: October 1, 2018, 10:14:38 pm »
The best players in the world play in Spain. The same league that has dominated European football for the last decade.

Put Messi in England and he'd be scoring the same amount as he has currently, because the defending isn't any better in England than it is in Spain.


Absolute bollocks comparing La Liga to the 3rd division of English football, what on earth are you on about?

Or you could put Messi in 4 World Cups and he'd score 6 goals.

Offline ElCapo

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4413 on: October 1, 2018, 10:18:38 pm »
By the way, the cliche of "very strong defensively" still exists about Serie A/Italy, too. It stopped being true about 20 years ago now. The football played there is very different (just like everywhere else), many attacking, possession-oriented teams. A lot of very high scoring games. Yet, the cliche persists. They keep talking about how difficult it would be for Ronaldo to match his scoring numbers in Spain. Ronaldo is aging, but this has nothing to do with the quality of Serie A defenses. Their best goalscorers were the likes of Higuain, who couldn't finish to save his life while he was in Spain.

Incidentally, the cliche about teams not caring in Europe is also an often-cited excuse for Serie A teams, too. Just like Premiership teams who qualify and then fail spectacularly in Europe, Italian teams have been using these cliches for a long time now.

The reality, however, is that neither Serie A nor Premiership teams are that great at defending. And yes, their teams care about Europe too. There are much better explanations why they fail in Europe when they do.

What a weird thing to say about someone who scored 107 goals in 190 games in La Liga.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4414 on: October 1, 2018, 10:20:54 pm »
Or you could put Messi in 4 World Cups and he'd score 6 goals.

What has that got to do with anything? Ronaldo's goals are similar to Messi at the World Cup and he was cutting it in England before going to Spain.
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Offline ElCapo

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4415 on: October 1, 2018, 10:27:45 pm »
What has that got to do with anything? Ronaldo's goals are similar to Messi at the World Cup and he was cutting it in England before going to Spain.

He's just making the assumption that you could port Messi into any other team into any other league and he'd have the same output he has at Barca. That's not really the case - as his experience with the NT shows.

He's a fucking fabulous player mind!

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4416 on: October 1, 2018, 10:31:32 pm »
He's just making the assumption that you could port Messi into any other team into any other league and he'd have the same output he has at Barca. That's not really the case - as his experience with the NT shows.

He's a fucking fabulous player mind!

gerrard never performed for England the same way he did for us, there are numerous players who don't replicate exactly what they do at a club level for their national side.

Without Messi, Argentina would have never made it to the 2 finals they have in recent years, in fact they wouldn't even have qualified for this past one had it not been for himi.

I am making an assumption based on very similar players who have come to England from Spain and tore it a new arsehole [Torres,Silva,Aguero] and Messi is galaxies above them in terms of ability and football IQ, so I am extremely confident that he would tear up at least 15 out of the 20 sides in England.

Keep in mind Salah jsut scored 32 goals this past season in the league, and as much as I love Mo, Messi is on a planet on his own when it comes to finishing let alone anything else



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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4417 on: October 3, 2018, 07:58:32 am »
He's just making the assumption that you could port Messi into any other team into any other league and he'd have the same output he has at Barca. That's not really the case - as his experience with the NT shows.

He's a fucking fabulous player mind!
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The Spaniards have now dominated European football for the best part of this millenium now. I find it strange that people still debate this.

Offline ElCapo

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4418 on: October 3, 2018, 09:52:17 pm »
WHAT. A. PLAYER. 

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4419 on: October 3, 2018, 10:24:07 pm »
Alba has been great for Barca.

Luis Enrique needs to stop being stubborn and call him up. He called some players who are not half as good instead of calling up Alba.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4420 on: October 4, 2018, 06:32:26 pm »
I see that Enrique omitted Alba yet again. Very childish from him.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4421 on: October 4, 2018, 09:56:26 pm »
I see that Enrique omitted Alba yet again. Very childish from him.
Or you?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4422 on: October 6, 2018, 07:21:56 pm »
Hahahaha whoops!

Another side that never strengthen their squad yet seem to expect success to continue. Their transfer policy is utterly bizarre.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4423 on: October 6, 2018, 07:22:50 pm »
Real are so, so shit. This is not a case of them saving themselves for bigger challenges later in the season either. Totally devoid of goal threat these days.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4424 on: October 6, 2018, 07:25:30 pm »
Wide open season in La Liga this year.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4425 on: October 6, 2018, 07:30:12 pm »
Lapotegui really turned them into a shitter version of Spain circa 2010-12, 800 passes with no penetration whatsoever.

Watching them is like watching Spain v Russia in the World cup all over again!
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4426 on: October 6, 2018, 07:30:21 pm »
Beaten in the last minutes of the game. How lovely!

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4427 on: October 6, 2018, 07:32:30 pm »
Lapotegui really turned them into a shitter version of Spain circa 2010-12, 800 passes with no penetration whatsoever.

Watching them is like watching Spain v Russia in the World cup all over again!

Really? That Spain team was dominating the hell out of teams. This Madrid side is defensively decent, but nothing else. Even if you said shitter version, that flatters them as they're nowhere near as good on the ball as that Spain now.

Sapin vs Russia in this World Cup, yes maybe. Same manager prepared them until the start of the World Cup, so no surprises there.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4428 on: October 6, 2018, 07:38:38 pm »
Alaves are level with Real Madrid on points now  :lmao

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4429 on: October 6, 2018, 07:38:50 pm »
They were shit the first half of last season as well but then vastly improved in the second half. Although with no Ronaldo now, who knows.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4430 on: October 6, 2018, 07:39:53 pm »
Wide open season in La Liga this year.
exactly what i was thinking, very strange results last few weeks. Real Madrid only 1 win in their last 5 and Barca only 2 wins in 5.

Valencia-Barcelona should be a good one tomorrow.

Also, Real Madrid hasn't scored for 3 matches now, when did that last happen?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4431 on: October 6, 2018, 07:40:08 pm »
They were shit the first half of last season as well but then vastly improved in the second half. Although with no Ronaldo now, who knows.

Even if they recover, that won't get them close to winning the league, as it didn't last season. Let's see how they do in the CL.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4432 on: October 6, 2018, 07:40:13 pm »
They were shit the first half of last season as well but then vastly improved in the second half. Although with no Ronaldo now, who knows.

Ronaldo picked up his form at the start of the year so someone else will have to take them to that level in terms of scoring goals and I fail to see any of them doing so

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4433 on: October 6, 2018, 07:41:16 pm »
Real Madrid - Ha ha ha ha ha!

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4434 on: October 6, 2018, 08:35:08 pm »
No idea where they found Mariano but boy he looks like a broke man's Troy Deeney so far. Slow as hell too.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4435 on: October 6, 2018, 08:39:51 pm »
Lopeguti or Kovac which one goes first?

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4436 on: October 6, 2018, 08:53:35 pm »
Lopeguti or Kovac which one goes first?
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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4437 on: October 6, 2018, 09:11:28 pm »
Real Madrid only got 76 points last season.  Obviously they won the CL, but this was a squad that needed new players, especially after losing Ronaldo.  Also, a key player like Modric playing so many grueling matches in the spring and summer won't help his form.

Yet, they hire Lopetegui and sign Courtois.

Surely after the World Cup, after 3 CLs, after losing Zidane, and after losing Ronaldo, Real Madrid would make a statement?  Instead, they haven't done any of that.

Was Lopetegui brought in just to steady the ship to prepare for a new era next summer?  Basically, get Real Madrid in the top 3 and give the board a chance to evaluate the futures of players like Bale and Benzema, and then he's sacked, and Real bring in a big name manager along with Hazard (and maybe Neymar given that he'll have done 2 years in Paris and won't have to compete with anyone at Real to be the main man).

Or do they have financial issues?

Because this summer was bizarre from Real Madrid.
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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4438 on: October 6, 2018, 09:14:56 pm »
It's very hard to fathom. They've spent good amounts on Vinicius and the other fella who's name escapes me recently, so it's not like the cheque book has gone away completely, but they desperately need 1 or 2 top quality operators and sharpish because you can't win big cups with just a modern day Benzema and Bale leading the attack. Ceballos doesn't look up to it either.

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Re: Spanish Football 2018/2019
« Reply #4439 on: October 6, 2018, 09:30:18 pm »
No idea where they found Mariano but boy he looks like a broke man's Troy Deeney so far. Slow as hell too.

They bought him from Lyon, where he was pretty good to be honest. Lyon have plenty of good talents there.

The problem with Real Madrid is that their build-up play is becoming more and more stale.