Topic: PL: Chelsea 0 vs 2 Liverpool 50' 53' Mane

[medley]

any highlights lads? i dont see the audio video thread updated

https://ourmatch.me/20-09-2020-chelsea-vs-liverpool/

Or more here if need be:

https://old.reddit.com/r/footballhighlights/comments/iwfq8m/chelsea_vs_liverpool_premier_league_20sep2020/

[deFacto please, you bastards]

People are underrating us again and I love it.

[William Regal]

really liked that planned free kick routine with salah and trent at the end, Neville saying salah was throwing the toys out of the cot to fit the narrative he likes to build and then salah tee'd it up for trent, that was planned right? 

[Salty Dog]

really liked that planned free kick routine with salah and trent at the end, Neville saying salah was throwing the toys out of the cot to fit the narrative he likes to build and then salah tee'd it up for trent, that was planned right? 

Hard to say for sure, but watching it at the time I did find myself asking if they were just pretending to argue over who was taking it.

[number 168]

Hard to say for sure, but watching it at the time I did find myself asking if they were just pretending to argue over who was taking it.

Given that Mo was laughing afterwards tends to suggest it was a bit of play acting.

[blert596]

Mane is a fucking nutter. For that second goal he was sprinting at the keeper from twenty yards away before the ball was even played to the keeper - that's why we're unplayable. And the first one was pure St. John (we know which goal). But Fab for me was mom.

1st game of the season would have been fitting

[Dr. Beaker]

1st game of the season would have been fitting

Indeed.

[Golyo]

People are underrating us again and I love it.

Strange that it's happening all around the world. We beat City by about 6 wins last season in the league, and now we got even stronger with Thiago and Jota. While they have Agüero out for months and had to start John fucking Stones in defence (unfortunately he was better than I expected). People have extremely short memories. It's baffling that City have the shortest odds everywhere. Can't understand why.

[Garnier]

this win was so, so good

[idontknow]

90+minutes of total control.
Superb performance.
And we are the team who will most miss support in the ground, because we actually have support.
Clearly, fuck that, we're the best on the training pitch too.
Plus, Shankly always knew it, and Klopp does, our support is physically psychic.
From a distance we can stare and scream and will that ball into the net.

We're gonna win the football league again!!

[Redcap]

For those who think we'll be nullified if other teams man mark Thiago. Have you forgotten we've got Trent?

Really important point. This is the key thing about having Thiago. Teams would have learned the importance of nullifying our wingbacks this season. But now that we have Thiago, concentrating on the wingbacks will give Thiago more time and vice versa. We're going to be incredibly hard to defend against.

[fredfrop]

It feels like my car, it's best not to hammer it until the engine has properly got up to temperature. To prevent parts getting damaged by unnecessary stresses you run it at lower revs for a little while. But when everything is properly warmed up you can let her go and hear the engine roar.

I wonder if Klopp will feel we're up to temperature against Arsenal or Everton? Whatever, someone is going to get crushed soon.

[Dr. Beaker]

Just remembered something from the game on Sunday. Can't remember who hit the shot in the first half, from outside the box, right hand side. It was a bit of an obvious miscue and was going a yard or two past the left hand post. Nevertheless Kepa does this spectacular full length covering dive. Don't know who the commentator was, but he said, "Ooh that was a bit of a Pickford job there from Kepa".

[The Test]

r.e needing CB cover, I think it's being underestimated how good a job Fab did. Werner's no slouch and they were 1 on 1 on numerous occasions. Our defensive strategy is all about ultra high risk for ultra high reward and 99% of CB's in Europe would probably have fucked up at least once with the German running at them throughout the match. Unless we're bringing in someone like Koulibaly who has managed to shut Mo down pretty consistently at times you're not going to get a player as good as Fab whatever nominal position he's "tagged" with.

In Fab I personally think we've got the finest utility player in Europe and a player Virgil obviously loves playing beside...
Plus his versatility also means he'll almost always be on the pitch in some capacity, regardless of Thiago and Hendo needing games.

I'm delighted with the shape of the squad right now.

[missis sumner]

really liked that planned free kick routine with salah and trent at the end, Neville saying salah was throwing the toys out of the cot to fit the narrative he likes to build and then salah tee'd it up for trent, that was planned right? 

Definitely.  Mo was over acting a little. 

[fowlermagic]

Kepa could have reached it but Mane was being fouled at the precise moment that the ball was nearby thus preventing him taking control of the ball. The fact is that had he not been fouled then at the very least he should be able to get a touch on the ball, even if its a bad touch or if the keeper eventually gets it.

It was a sending off purely on intention alone as the defender did not know the keeper may get to it first so decided to take that risk out of the equation by rugby tackling Mane. How the ref gave a yellow is beyond me as between him and the linesman they should have quickly confirmed a sending off.

Anyway just wanted to say we cruised through that game in 3rd gear and even teams like Chelsea are paying us extra respect by sitting back so much. The sign of Champions that can inflict real damage if you poke us too much.

[Dr. Beaker]

It was a sending off purely on intention alone as the defender did not know the keeper may get to it first so decided to take that risk out of the equation by rugby tackling Mane. How the ref gave a yellow is beyond me as between him and the linesman they should have quickly confirmed a sending off.

Anyway just wanted to say we cruised through that game in 3rd gear and even teams like Chelsea are paying us extra respect by sitting back so much. The sign of Champions that can inflict real damage if you poke us too much.

Pretty much any touch on that ball would have created a goal.

[Huytonian]

Just remembered something from the game on Sunday. Can't remember who hit the shot in the first half, from outside the box, right hand side. It was a bit of an obvious miscue and was going a yard or two past the left hand post. Nevertheless Kepa does this spectacular full length covering dive. Don't know who the commentator was, but he said, "Ooh that was a bit of a Pickford job there from Kepa".

Lee Dixon said that 😂

[dutchkop]

Inside Chelsea video is very nice thankyou.

I love the camera angles. GIves a real fans viewpoint of the highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfvk7_IdOQ0&t=312s

[Eeyore]

r.e needing CB cover, I think it's being underestimated how good a job Fab did. Werner's no slouch and they were 1 on 1 on numerous occasions. Our defensive strategy is all about ultra high risk for ultra high reward and 99% of CB's in Europe would probably have fucked up at least once with the German running at them throughout the match. Unless we're bringing in someone like Koulibaly who has managed to shut Mo down pretty consistently at times you're not going to get a player as good as Fab whatever nominal position he's "tagged" with.

In Fab I personally think we've got the finest utility player in Europe and a player Virgil obviously loves playing beside...
Plus his versatility also means he'll almost always be on the pitch in some capacity, regardless of Thiago and Hendo needing games.

I'm delighted with the shape of the squad right now.

1 v 1 will not be the problem for Fabinho because running with the ball slows the attacker down and Fabinho times his tackles so well, either a pre-emptive tackle or an outstretched leg if the attacker pushes it past him. The issue will be tracking a pacey attacker for a through ball.

Werner was continually pulling on to Fabinho but fortunately our midfield press simply stopped Chelsea getting the chance to play through balls.

[Sangria]

1 v 1 will not be the problem for Fabinho because running with the ball slows the attacker down and Fabinho times his tackles so well, either a pre-emptive tackle or an outstretched leg if the attacker pushes it past him. The issue will be tracking a pacey attacker for a through ball.

Werner was continually pulling on to Fabinho but fortunately our midfield press simply stopped Chelsea getting the chance to play through balls.

A pacey attacker will always be a threat on a through ball, unless the defender can keep pace. See Lineker versus Hansen.

[RedForeverTT]

r.e needing CB cover, I think it's being underestimated how good a job Fab did. Werner's no slouch and they were 1 on 1 on numerous occasions. Our defensive strategy is all about ultra high risk for ultra high reward and 99% of CB's in Europe would probably have fucked up at least once with the German running at them throughout the match.

I know a £85m defender that would have fucked up.

[Eeyore]

A pacey attacker will always be a threat on a through ball, unless the defender can keep pace. See Lineker versus Hansen.

Only if there is no pressure on the ball. The point of playing a high line is that you compress the play which means you can press far more effectively. That is what we did on Sunday.

On Sky, Neville was suggesting that we should drop off five yards without realizing that would have made it far easier for Chelsea's midfield to pick a pass. If we cannot maintain the press then Fabinho will have problems with quick forwards. We played a really controlled game against Chelsea and refused to go to expansive even when we were 2-0 up against 10 men. I think in games when we need to go really expansive then Klopp likes to play Gomez because of his recovery pace.

[CHOPPER]

Two fat bastards legging after a ball,lobbed over the top by a 20 a day, pot smoking alcoholic, is where its at.


Wrong size shorts, or wrong size blokes?

[JC the Messiah]

Only if there is no pressure on the ball. The point of playing a high line is that you compress the play which means you can press far more effectively. That is what we did on Sunday.

On Sky, Neville was suggesting that we should drop off five yards without realizing that would have made it far easier for Chelsea's midfield to pick a pass. If we cannot maintain the press then Fabinho will have problems with quick forwards. We played a really controlled game against Chelsea and refused to go to expansive even when we were 2-0 up against 10 men. I think in games when we need to go really expansive then Klopp likes to play Gomez because of his recovery pace.

They mentioned the high line a few times on the commentary, as a criticism. Then in passing mentioned we had the best defensive record last season in the league, with no sense of irony. 

It's the new "zonal marking".

[Sangria]

Two fat bastards legging after a ball,lobbed over the top by a 20 a day, pot smoking alcoholic, is where its at.


Wrong size shorts, or wrong size blokes?

Which makes me wonder, what's the most pathetic contest for a through ball ever seen in top level football? Think something like the above, a midfielder with no pressure on him punting a ball forward for two fat bastards to chase.

[The Test]

I know a £85m defender that would have fucked up.

 ...... 85m 

[Redcap]

How are they criticising how we defend when we kept a clean sheet, and when our style of defending is central to how we play?

[JC the Messiah]

How are they criticising how we defend when we kept a clean sheet, and when our style of defending is central to how we play?

That's the incredible bit. If we constantly dropped points because of the defence, then they'd have a valid point. If the high line didn't provide the platform for our press, they'd be able to question its usefulness.

Like zonal marking, it's criticised as a system when an error is made. However, it's not praised when it works. When man-to-man marking fails it's blamed on an individual error, when someone scores against zonal marking, it's never individual error - it's the system's fault.

Every time we catch someone offside, or extinguish an attack, or indeed successfully press the opposition, then nothing is said about the high line.

The argument through incredulity is dished out by ex-players who basically don't understand what's happening on the pitch in front of them. It highlights their ignorance more than anything else.

[Bincey]

On LFCTVs 'Press Box' show they showed a great angle of the challenge on Mane and Gini going absolutely apoplectic when the ref shows the yellow. 

[christofu]

That's the incredible bit. If we constantly dropped points because of the defence, then they'd have a valid point. If the high line didn't provide the platform for our press, they'd be able to question its usefulness.

Like zonal marking, it's criticised as a system when an error is made. However, it's not praised when it works. When man-to-man marking fails it's blamed on an individual error, when someone scores against zonal marking, it's never individual error - it's the system's fault.

Every time we catch someone offside, or extinguish an attack, or indeed successfully press the opposition, then nothing is said about the high line.

The argument through incredulity is dished out by ex-players who basically don't understand what's happening on the pitch in front of them. It highlights their ignorance more than anything else.

 

Well summed up. The double standards in commentary regarding this has me reaching for the mute all too often.

[Ghost Town]

Well summed up. The double standards in commentary regarding this has me reaching for the mute all too often.

Not sure if it is double standards. As JC said a lot of it is just ignorance. Most commentators just aren't knowledgeable enough about techniques and tactics; even the ex-players are largely yesterday's men, or were never tactically smart anyway.

It's the same with fans. Ask a hundred fans out there about a high line and I doubt more than a tiny percent will have any idea of all the reasons why it is deployed.

Even Neville who tries to make out like he's very tactically and technically aware, seemed to just think that we should drop the line back ten yards or so to counter Werner's running, giving no thought to all the other ramifications of doing so.

[JC the Messiah]

Not sure if it is double standards. As JC said a lot of it is just ignorance. Most commentators just aren't knowledgeable enough about techniques and tactics; even the ex-players are largely yesterday's men, or were never tactically smart anyway.

It's the same with fans. Ask a hundred fans out there about a high line and I doubt more than a tiny percent will have any idea of all the reasons why it is deployed.

Even Neville who tries to make out like he's very tactically and technically aware, seemed to just think that we should drop the line back ten yards or so to counter Werner's running, giving no thought to all the other ramifications of doing so.

They should know though, they're getting paid a lot to give us the benefit of their "expertise".

[christofu]

Not sure if it is double standards. As JC said a lot of it is just ignorance. Most commentators just aren't knowledgeable enough about techniques and tactics; even the ex-players are largely yesterday's men, or were never tactically smart anyway.

It's the same with fans. Ask a hundred fans out there about a high line and I doubt more than a tiny percent will have any idea of all the reasons why it is deployed.

Even Neville who tries to make out like he's very tactically and technically aware, seemed to just think that we should drop the line back ten yards or so to counter Werner's running, giving no thought to all the other ramifications of doing so.

I agree its ignorant, I meant double standards with regards to how they highlight that the methodology is the issue when zonal 'marking' or defending with a high line goes wrong, but never mention what its benefits are and even worse, I have rarely heard analysis suggest we just executed it badly (as against leeds). On the flip I have never heard them question man-to-man marking on set pieces when that doesn't work.

It seems like its become a lazy accusation that's popular to roll out - but only applied to certain tactics...

[lucas65]

How are they criticising how we defend when we kept a clean sheet, and when our style of defending is central to how we play?

Clean sheet against the biggest spenders in football...I'll take that.

[The Test]

I agree its ignorant, I meant double standards with regards to how they highlight that the methodology is the issue when zonal 'marking' or defending with a high line goes wrong, but never mention what its benefits are and even worse, I have rarely heard analysis suggest we just executed it badly (as against leeds). On the flip I have never heard them question man-to-man marking on set pieces when that doesn't work.

It seems like its become a lazy accusation that's popular to roll out - but only applied to certain tactics...

i think now it's essentially ignorance stemming from repetition, but originally there was a strong whiff of xenophobia, specifically aimed at Rafa.

[Ghost Town]

They should know though, they're getting paid a lot to give us the benefit of their "expertise".

I kind of agree, but at the same time I'm not sure that's what they are being paid for. I think lead commentators are being paid for their vocal and commentating abilities and ex-players for their recognition factor. Broadcasters still seem to think that we, the viewers, are so dumb that we can be wowed and enthralled by famous names.

They don't seem to realise that being a player does not automatically make someone suitable for commentary and understanding tactics, techniques etc. And even if they do understand some of it, just having been a player does not mean they have the ability to impart that information in a meaningful way.

It's kind of insulting to the art and craft of commentary and punditry for broadcasters to think any old lag who has kicked a ball for money can do it.

[JC the Messiah]

I kind of agree, but at the same time I'm not sure that's what they are being paid for. I think lead commentators are being paid for their vocal and commentating abilities and ex-players for their recognition factor. Broadcasters still seem to think that we, the viewers, are so dumb that we can be wowed and enthralled by famous names.

They don't seem to realise that being a player does not automatically make someone suitable for commentary and understanding tactics, techniques etc. And even if they do understand some of it, just having been a player does not mean they have the ability to impart that information in a meaningful way.

It's kind of insulting to the art and craft of commentary and punditry for broadcasters to think any old lag who has kicked a ball for money can do it.

Was talking about this the other day, with regards to athletics.

When I was young, Brendan Forster was one of the main commentators and he was great. Apparently, he'd been a top athlete, but that was way before my time.

Now Steve Cram has taken on the baton (yeah, see what I did there?), and of course I remember him being one of the best middle-distance runners in the mid 80s.

But he's excellent as the commentator. Knowledgeable, intelligent, engaging. Surely there are ex-footballers who can do the same thing in football? Their past status as a player isn't actually that important. I'm sure the kids who watch athletics are only vaguely aware of what Cram achieved as an athlete. They'll know him as the commentator first and foremost. Seems football draws the short straw.

[Sangria]

Was talking about this the other day, with regards to athletics.

When I was young, Brendan Forster was one of the main commentators and he was great. Apparently, he'd been a top athlete, but that was way before my time.

Now Steve Cram has taken on the baton (yeah, see what I did there?), and of course I remember him being one of the best middle-distance runners in the mid 80s.

But he's excellent as the commentator. Knowledgeable, intelligent, engaging. Surely there are ex-footballers who can do the same thing in football? Their past status as a player isn't actually that important. I'm sure the kids who watch athletics are only vaguely aware of what Cram achieved as an athlete. They'll know him as the commentator first and foremost. Seems football draws the short straw.

Are footballers prepared and able to do the hard work of learning the ins and outs of journalism? Richie Benaud did local journalism on retiring from cricket. There is a tradition of proper journalism in cricket, beyond merely employing the name. Is there anyone like Benaud whom the modern football pundits look up to as an example to follow?

[Peabee]

Not sure if it is double standards. As JC said a lot of it is just ignorance. Most commentators just aren't knowledgeable enough about techniques and tactics; even the ex-players are largely yesterday's men, or were never tactically smart anyway.

It's the same with fans. Ask a hundred fans out there about a high line and I doubt more than a tiny percent will have any idea of all the reasons why it is deployed.

Even Neville who tries to make out like he's very tactically and technically aware, seemed to just think that we should drop the line back ten yards or so to counter Werner's running, giving no thought to all the other ramifications of doing so.

Gary Neville once suggested City could beat Klopp’s press by chipping the ball from player to player instead of along the ground. He showed this by pausing highlights showing when they should chip. As if it was as easy as that.