Author Topic: Hindsight and Redemption  (Read 6933 times)

Offline guest

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Hindsight and Redemption
« on: January 26, 2013, 06:50:04 pm »
Hindsight and Redemption are not the likeliest of bedfellows.

-

Hindsight is devious, conniving, and heinous. It is a mustachio-twirling villain with a maniacal laugh, gleefully willing to expose every minute flaw in human nature. Redemption, however, is a knight upon a majestic steed. It respects the human condition; it is willing to work tirelessly to rectify wrongs, no matter how arduous and challenging.

Hindsight has an easy life. Hindsight smugly says your suit was the wrong shade of grey five minutes after you receive the galling job rejection. Hindsight singsongs you're too fat, ugly and stupid to ever get the girl while your heart is still tearing in two. Hindsight declares your car too blue, your music too loud, your education too mediocre. Even when you're not wrong, Hindsight knew it all along.

No such conceited behaviour from Redemption. Focus less on what went wrong, try hard to find solutions. Redemption purchases new suits and cars, no matter how expensive. Redemption loses weight and works harder at college, no matter how sweat-laden it could ultimately be. Hindsight wants to follow Redemption, but leads a life far easier.

Over the past few years, Liverpool have been ruled by hindsight. Every single problem was obvious to all but the oblivious.

In hindsight, 35 million pounds was too much to spend on a striker with little experience and a style completely dissonant with the rest of the squad. In hindsight, granting a club legend a three year contract after 18 league games was at least a year too long. In hindsight, waiting until the final day of the transfer window to eke out every shrapnel of value -- and ultimately leaving a thin squad to near-starvation -- was not the best negotiation strategy.

And so it has been over the past few decades. Hindsight stood next to Gerard Houllier as he embarked on his final lap around Anfield and said El-Hadji Diouf, Salif Diao and Bruno Cheyrou were not the final three pieces of a jigsaw needing only one small push. Hindsight lapped up the tears of Steven Gerrard after he was told the pursuit of Robbie Keane would ultimately scupper his best chance to lift the Premier League title.

But hindsight is easy. After regressing from title contenders and European giants into a mid-table side re-establishing itself on the continent within four years, stating what went wrong is merely an exercise of self-flagellation. It is the reaction to these blatant realities that defines the strength of an institution.

It should come as no surprise the past few seasons have seen Liverpool simply not react at all. Every mistake -- Joe Cole, Andy Carroll, Clint Dempsey -- brought further thickness to the club's catalogue of errors. It was soon followed by a shrug of the shoulders, a roll of the eyes and an overriding feeling of melancholy as the wait for the next dissatisfaction began.

But a clap of hooves can be heard around the corridors of Anfield. Redemption may have finally found its way to Merseyside to accompany its nemesis. For the first time in a while, Liverpool -- and all associated with the football club -- appear to be learning from their mistakes. Their work in the January transfer window, though only Daniel Sturridge has signed thus far, is testament to that.

Liverpool waited and waited for Dempsey until Fulham, in the final hour, could wait no longer. Redemption came in Sturridge's signature being secured before January's transfer window had barely allowed a breeze in. The club entered north-east negotiations for Carroll, Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson with a ham-fistful of dollars. Redemption comes in the intelligent, cautious bidding for Internazionale's Philippe Coutinho and Blackpool's Tom Ince, both identified as targets by the club, but neither eliciting the expenditure Liverpool are reminded of so readily.

- Liverpool closing in on Coutinho

Truly, redemption seems to be a narrative prevalent in Liverpool's latest chapter. After just three points from the opening five games of Brendan Rodgers' reign, they had little choice. Each win now inches towards the disastrous start being that more irrelevant. The squad itself also houses some of those redeemed: Downing, Henderson and Jose Enrique all looked to be exiting Anfield at the start of the season but have found refuge, their clenched fists after good work a sight too often lacking last season.

Even Liverpool's three major January transfer targets face their own redemption for the sins of clubs past. With three goals in three games, Sturridge has already started to fire back claims he did not have the ability or disposition to be the main man at a big club. The imminent arrival of Coutinho gives a 20-year-old Brazilian a second chance in a major European league after promise and development failed to marry in Milan. Ince, meanwhile, will hope it is second-time lucky at Anfield; few get second auditions on such stages.

Forget the buzzwords and projects. Forget the master plan and grand design. Liverpool can become a haven for those seeking redemption and hoping to revive their fledging careers, improving some beyond recognition. Henderson, Downing and Enrique are proof of what the club can do in such little time, so too the manner Sturridge has started, and the excitement Coutinho has already brought.

For a club still unsure of its identity, perhaps this is what lies ahead. After so many years of heel-kicking and self-pitying over devilish hindsight, Anfield can become somewhere hindsight helps, not hinders. No longer does it mock the clothes you wear or the food you eat, but warns against the turquoise tracksuit and double cheeseburger. No longer does it cause grief at overspending on Carroll or overconfidence on Dempsey, but simply points to Coutinho and Sturridge as the way to conduct business.

It would appear the club begins to edge nearer to the 21st century -- albeit 13 years behind most. The scouting system no longer identifies one player, but instead a type of player with specific attributes. In theory, gone are the days when missing out on a target prompted mass panic as somebody, anybody, would do. There are still things to figure out -- the hierarchy still feels unstable as it rests upon the wheels of inexperience, with help needed around managing director Ian Ayre.

But on the pitch, redemption abounds. And though it might be hindsight's unlikely bedfellow, it could begin a journey towards Liverpool finding its own lost love: success. For now, refusing to be held hostage by the tyrannous ties of told-you-sos is success enough.

Link: http://t.co/qSVwBINF
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 09:23:08 am by royhendo »

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 08:32:49 pm »
Hindsight is the bain of our collective life, it has to be said. But there's a parallel here with the NYT write up of Andy Murray's semi final victory over Federer the other day. If he hadn't felt the pain, if Federer hadn't been so consistently dominant, and f he hadn't had his demons to face that held him back, he'd never have conquered all three to arrive where he is now... wonder where he's gonna end up. Wonder where we're gonna end up.

I think it's a great point, and redemption as a metaphor more neatly encapsulates 'value' than maybe any other really. I always think of Kompany. £6m and at one point the 'future of Belgian football', a 'player who has everything', a 'Rolls Royce', but fast forward a few seasons to his very early 20s and he was already written off as made of glass and a wasted talent. £6m.

To approach the market with that rigour is a big shift for us - one we'll all need to adapt to (and that includes Rodgers and Ayre doesn't it?). But I think it's gonna work, because we have the structure to support it now.

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 09:24:35 am »
Attention...

Please actually read the op and do it justice.

Offline Mint

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 09:52:31 am »
I am more a lurker than an active poster. I am just not a wordy guy, but I needed to comment on this post as well as other posts from RAWK writers and scribes of late. They are like little oasis' for a weary cyber-Red in a desert of knee jerk misery. Your writers and several good posters here are what makes logging on even worth it during the silly season. Thank you.

The OP deserves to be in the "Some Important Posts..." thread I believe.


Offline bakstabba

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 11:22:20 am »
Thanks L6 Red, a wonderful read.

The club has definitely seemed to take a step forward in terms of the nous needed to work the transfer market. I guess this is where the idea of seeking redemption for past mistakes is so important. I'm still unsure whether we have the structure in place to continue good business in transfers, but then again, I'm unsure as to what that structure would actually look like! I understand that we've filled out our scouting department out again but the DOF experiment makes me wonder if that kind of position and experience is still needed for us.

It's good to see the scouting department actually have time to seek out multiple targets though

Socrates did have a habit of polarising opinion, as does Lucas. Lucas is also good at hemming opponents in and locking them into difficult situations.

Offline guest

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 11:39:00 am »
To approach the market with that rigour is a big shift for us - one we'll all need to adapt to (and that includes Rodgers and Ayre doesn't it?). But I think it's gonna work, because we have the structure to support it now.

It makes sense if we consider the supposed criteria for new signings. If you want value, there is nowhere better than those who have fallen out of favour - usually young(ish) lads who made the big move elsewhere that little bit too quickly.

You look at Liverpool's best signings in, let's say, the past 20 years. A number of them fitted this idea, with Garcia probably the best example.

Liverpool can't poach the best players from the best teams anymore (could they ever?) so it is smart to look at a few frustrated on the bench.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 11:49:08 am »
Hindsight can be looked at from a few angles, it is never wrong as it knows the result of the decision before that decision is made, the context is always absolute there is no margin for error and it makes genius's out of everyone.

However normally when people look at things in hindsight it is normally linked in a critical way, for example wasnt Moores and Parry idiots for selling to those yanks. Yes we know that now did we all think it then.

For me hindsight is reactive not proactive and for far too long this club and its fans have been the latter when we should have been the former but this is the way of the world and I am as bad as anyone else here. Also you could say i am looking at this in hindsight.

L6 post is good and covers a lot of good points but for me it isn't hindsight  or redemption we need it is simply  patience. We need patience with new players, new management and god help me yes new owners.

We need to start again perhaps even forget our history because that is used sometimes like a great anchor weighing down any new player, manager, and owner.
One point and again this is in hindsight if everything was going well here would we need hindsight or any redemption?

For me the language we use is coloured by our circumstances and the perception of where we are right now.
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Offline fowler9_god

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 11:51:24 am »
It makes sense if we consider the supposed criteria for new signings. If you want value, there is nowhere better than those who have fallen out of favour - usually young(ish) lads who made the big move elsewhere that little bit too quickly.

You look at Liverpool's best signings in, let's say, the past 20 years. A number of them fitted this idea, with Garcia probably the best example.

Liverpool can't poach the best players from the best teams anymore (could they ever?) so it is smart to look at a few frustrated on the bench.

Plus they have a higher ceiling. Someone like Ben Arfa, was highly rated, fell by the wayside, Newcastle pick him up for pennies and he does well. They are unsafe signings of course, but they can more of an impact than steady players like Riera, Downing etc.

Another area where we can look at are the teams which have some good players but don't make the CL. Eg, If Schalke fall short of the CL places, there are some good players to have.

I think its the way to go, If we make the CL anytime soon, then we'd need to rethink this philosophy.

Because as much as we sign players like the above portfolio, I still feel we lack a few more experienced heads which IMO will end up costing us points.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 11:59:55 am »
Surely FSG and more importantly Ayre have gained some redemption from even the most ardent of opposition? Yes the summer was a failure, but it is very clear that harsh lessons finally got learnt - if Coutinho signs, we will be the highest spenders this window, it basically takes the most common of war cries from the anti-FSG group that they won’t invest and flips it the bird and shows that they are backing their man.. But they won’t do it at all costs, they are doing it the right way.. The way that will keep us competing for the foreseeable future.

Hindsight is all well and good, but how about a little of credit where credit is due? some people on RAWK are so quick to belittle Ayre, and whilst not perfect you cannot say this window won’t be a success. I'm all for people having their opinion, but if you are so quick to judge and condemn - you need to be humble enough to admit when you're wrong and congratulate the man on a job well done this window.. His balls were in the chop and he has stepped up his game.. I'm not saying he doesn't need help longterm, but we are no longer the weak party over the negotiation table. We and more importantly Rodgers has got 2 more pieces of the puzzle.. 2 very exciting players on manageable wages and excellent value for money - the tide is turning, on and off the field...

Offline MOZ

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 12:00:26 pm »
It sometimes feels like you shoe-horn the themes into your posts but they are eloquent and satisfying nonetheless. I also find that I often agree with the main point, as is the case here. It seems we are taking a more efficient and productive approach to many aspects of Club business.

"The scouting system no longer identifies one player, but instead a type of player with specific attributes."

This, combined with the slow and steady approach to negatiations - with a clear contingency in place - is important and should see us avoid any last minute panic buys or being held to ransom for single targets.

This could be one of best transfer windows in a while and I think  Brendan has had a big impact on that. He seems to be working well with Ayre as well.

And as someone else mentioned, patience plays a big part in this too. Keep calm and walk on.

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 12:02:13 pm »
That was a thoroughly enjoyable L6 Red, if people haven't got anything wonderful to add I hope they simply read and enjoy it.

Offline fowler9_god

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 12:29:59 pm »
It sometimes feels like you shoe-horn the themes into your posts but they are eloquent and satisfying nonetheless. I also find that I often agree with the main point, as is the case here. It seems we are taking a more efficient and productive approach to many aspects of Club business.

"The scouting system no longer identifies one player, but instead a type of player with specific attributes."

This, combined with the slow and steady approach to negatiations - with a clear contingency in place - is important and should see us avoid any last minute panic buys or being held to ransom for single targets.

This could be one of best transfer windows in a while and I think  Brendan has had a big impact on that. He seems to be working well with Ayre as well.

And as someone else mentioned, patience plays a big part in this too. Keep calm and walk on.


I disagree with that point. I don't think we have ever just looked at a few players per se.

I think the theme when we signed Henderson and Downing would have been to get an out and out winger and a midfielder who can play on the right side which mirrors Kenny's side of the late 80s.

Probably during the later Rafa years when he perhaps didn't trust anyone to do a job so he'd go for targets he knows well. Gareth Barry comes to mind.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 12:32:37 pm »
fantastic read.

absolutely brilliant.

there's a real feeling that we've moved on from the past and are trying to build something here
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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 12:35:41 pm »
Good read L6 and as always very well written.

No redemption anywhere near Anfield yet though,you have shot your bolt far too early. You've got a bit carried away mate.

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 01:53:02 pm »
I am more a lurker than an active poster. I am just not a wordy guy, but I needed to comment on this post as well as other posts from RAWK writers and scribes of late. They are like little oasis' for a weary cyber-Red in a desert of knee jerk misery. Your writers and several good posters here are what makes logging on even worth it during the silly season. Thank you.

The OP deserves to be in the "Some Important Posts..." thread I believe.



Hear hear. Another L6 Red masterpiece in the space of a few days, to boot.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2013, 03:36:04 pm »
It's articles/posts like this that make RAWK so special. Fantastic writing, thank you!

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2013, 08:56:45 pm »
Superb OP, which sadly will be lost amidst the anarchy of the Oldham post-match thread.

Hindsight is the absolute hell of life in general, be it in work, home-life and leisure.

As a club I do agree that we seem to be improving off the field.  Of course, it will take time to truly demonstrate progress, but the signings of Sturridge and (it appears) Coutinho are steps in the right direction.  The work to patiently improve our wage structure and bring the right people into the back room is starting to pay off as well.

Don't think, as fans, we'll ever get away from hindsight when things go badly, but as long as the club can try to rise above it we can be happy.

Offline RedinExile

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2013, 09:41:06 pm »
Much prefer PoP's posts and he is not even a journalist, this is just a pondering. Struggled to find a concrete opinion in the whole piece. Classic construct whereby saying nothing means no criticism from mates = boring. Just my opinion obviously.
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Offline BUSHMILLS

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2013, 11:30:05 pm »
Much prefer PoP's posts and he is not even a journalist, this is just a pondering. Struggled to find a concrete opinion in the whole piece. Classic construct whereby saying nothing means no criticism from mates = boring. Just my opinion obviously.

I don't know, some people just can't see a priest on a mountain of sugar. Or something.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2013, 11:47:50 pm »
I don't know, some people just can't see a priest on a mountain of sugar. Or something.

Always preferred the seagulls following the trawler myself. ;)
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Offline Tony Clueless

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 07:45:59 am »
A nice distraction from reality

Offline shanks hankie

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 08:10:27 am »
 Thanks for posting it. Kinda puts words to the thoughts that are in me head, you know? Beautiful really. And so true.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 08:55:09 am »
Nice flowery piece....from which I get:

" We've embarrassed ourselves far less in this window, than we have done in recent & previous ones...AND we've re-learned how to try and add subtle value to the squad on a much more modest budget, using more mature [shrewd] negotiation strategies.."

As things stood, I think our kudos rating in the transfer market was at an all time low as the season got underway, so there was always room for improvement here....

Hindsight & Redemption = " Learning from past mistakes "

If we're now on a learning curve which demands value for money and "bang for our buck" when it comes to signings and contract offers, then this can only be a good thing.

An enjoyable, well written piece.

Many thanks!!


 :)




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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 09:08:20 am »

Hindsight, you either love it or hate it. In many terms its haunted Liverpool FC for many years! But maybe, just maybe it might be starting to favor us :D (He says!)
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 09:37:04 am »
We may be cautious now compared to the rash spending of last year, but I still have serious doubts that we are spending money in the right way?
We are crying out for defensive cover, and we are signing a 20 year old Brazilian playmaker? And a left winger we let go for a fraction of the price we want him back for?

I still think our spending is reckless at times, that's just my opinion. Sturridge has been great so far, started brilliantly. But Allen and Borini havn't shone recently (Borini at all?) and there is £20m and Sturridge and Coutinho is another £20m? That's £40m on young lads who've never really done it at top clubs.

I think Rogers is the manager to take us forward, but I don't see how our spending and out tranfers are any less risky than last seasons, just we are spending less money.
As with every young player, you run the risk of them not playing well or being worth the money, and who was to say how the likes of Mata would turn out in England. But when you see the likes of Podolski for £10m, less than Borini (albiet older), you start to wonder if these £10m-£15m signings will actually be worth the money in the long run without some investment on experienced players also?

Just my opinion at the moment.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:41:00 am by Paul JH »
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 09:54:20 am »
If we'd signed Mourinho last summer and had Carroll on from the start yesterday, we wouldn't have had any need for posts like this.

Good stuff again Kristian. I know you're talking about the running of the club, but if you'll allow me the licence, I'll apply it to yesterday. If only the people posting "should have played Gerrard from the start, should have left Sterling on the bench, should have played Lucas, Carra was the man for this game" bollocks on the post match thread could think how unproductive and negative hindsight actually is. I'm sure if anyone could be arsed, they could cross reference all their earlier posts and find gems such as "Gerrard needs a rest, Coates needs games, Carra's finished, Lucas isn't the same since his injury"

A better writer than me once said something about worries over yesterday and fears over tomorrow being twin evils that rob us of today. If the players and boss dwell on yesterday and allow it to permeate their psyche negatively, we may as well not turn up on Wednesday. If we worry too much about Arsenal's slight resurgence and mini run of form, we may as well pray for snow to cancel the Virgin expresses until Thursday. If instead though we use today to implement a tactical plan amongst the players who'll start on Wednesday, and use the next couple of days to perfect it, we might just get somewhere. Redemption might just be 48 hours or so away. Unfortunately, the souls of some of the c*nts who supposedly support us now is far beyond redemption.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 10:47:22 am »
If we'd signed Mourinho last summer and had Carroll on from the start yesterday, we wouldn't have had any need for posts like this.

Good stuff again Kristian.
Great op and Macca weighs in with another cracker.
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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 10:54:24 am »
If we'd signed Mourinho last summer and had Carroll on from the start yesterday, we wouldn't have had any need for posts like this.

Yea, signing Messi and Ronaldo would've helped as well.

Offline Cato

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 11:11:43 am »
The OP was a joy to read after the car crash of the Post Match thread. Thanks for your eloquent, measured, sanity.  :wellin
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Offline guest

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2013, 03:27:34 pm »
Much prefer PoP's posts and he is not even a journalist, this is just a pondering. Struggled to find a concrete opinion in the whole piece. Classic construct whereby saying nothing means no criticism from mates = boring. Just my opinion obviously.

That's fine. Not for everybody. Not for most! But to insinuate I work with some sort of profession cowardice is a bit out of order.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Hindsight and Redemption
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2013, 03:59:57 pm »
on an individual level Henderson was a prospect when we signed him I think its stretching it to say redemption when it was us that dragged his career down in the first place. You could say similar for AC who'd just broken into the england team before falling off a bar stool and even Downing had become Villa's best player and an England regular............

Last season's league campaign was shocking quite why it was so poor I'm still not sure but some of these lads just got caught up in the general malaise they didn't cause it.

If we are talking as a club then atoning for past sins in spending isn't really addressed by spending 8m on a 20 year old prospect, who cost  a quarter of that a couple of years ago and hasn't done much since, that's pretty much still called a gamble.

If we are talking about atoning for starting the season with two strikers instead of four then thats only really going to be addressed by starting February with 4 and every other position being balanced to boot.  We need another DM and if Coutinho is just replacing Assaidi another forward. Full back I'd probbaly go with the kids we have but we wont know if thats the right decison for  a couple of years....:)

The prospects of a balanced squad look remote. We've just been dumped from the FA cup because we dont have an experienced enough squad to cope with 3 games in a week and yet our MD believes we have the best balanced squad in the premiership. The balance will remain woeful in terms of proven quality and experience.

Hindsight gets a bad wrap - its a starting point - those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it (Edmund Burke)
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.