Topic: Roy Evans

[Sweet Silver Song]

And Roy could? Blackburn and Newcastle were both breaking transfer records regularly. Man U were paying £12 million for Dwight Yorke etc.

Roy was on no more a level playing field then than Rafa is now.

I apologise for not seeing this one before.

That Dwight Yorke transfer (£12m) came at the end of Roy's reign when he had lost significant ground to the mancs both on and off the pitch. They accelerated away from us at this point, and were signing £30m players by the time Rafa turned up.

But lets back track to Roy's first season. Man U paid £7m for Cole smashing the British transfer record. A few weeks later we paid £8m for Collymore, breaking the British transfer record. -The last time we ever did that.

[redpride9]

I was hoping MR Evans would be appointed as Rafa's no 2..

[Illmatic]

Not if you have Chairmen like David Dein in charge, than the muppet we had in charge at the time. Dein was astute enough to know that whilst Rioch wasn't a poor manager, Wenger was a better one. He didn't wait the obligatory "three years" to make the change. Changed managers straight away, because he made the decision on behalf of the club, in the best interests of the club.

Meanwhile, our Chairman didn't have the heart to sack Souness when it was obvious it wasn't working, kept him in the job, but undermined his position by making Roy a joint manager. This relationship lasted a year with results even worse than before. And then kept Roy and got rid of Souness, not because it was the best decision for the club, but because he's a dithering idiot who couldn't make hard nosed decisions.  

Evans was never joint manager with souness however he was with houllier!

[Sweet Silver Song]

Evans was never joint manager with souness however he was with houllier!

Alright, he was made assistant manager to Souness by the board because Souness was failing. But it amounts to same dithering from Moores.

[nidgemo]

Not if you have Chairmen like David Dein in charge, than the muppet we had in charge at the time. Dein was astute enough to know that whilst Rioch wasn't a poor manager, Wenger was a better one. He didn't wait the obligatory "three years" to make the change. Changed managers straight away, because he made the decision on behalf of the club, in the best interests of the club.

Meanwhile, our Chairman didn't have the heart to sack Souness when it was obvious it wasn't working, kept him in the job, but undermined his position by making Roy a joint manager. This relationship lasted a year with results even worse than before. And then kept Roy and got rid of Souness, not because it was the best decision for the club, but because he's a dithering idiot who couldn't make hard nosed decisions.   

Interesting. Confirms a few things I was thinking...

[Britvic Orange]

The reason we're not top dogs any more is because we have too many fans happy to accept mediocrity. Like you. The kind of fans who think a manager getting us 4th is a genius.

Not for me, thanks.

Fully agreed, if your spoonfed shite season after season after a while it will start to taste nice, that's what's happend to our fans to the point now where we accept F.A. Cups, League Cups, U.E.F.A, Cups and finishing 4th as real success instead of just a form of success and we call mediocre to average players very good or world class. I know managers and players change but the clubs standards and fans aims should be set in stone, first is first and second is nowhere that is what we where brought up on and until we get back to that philosophy your going to have to get use to finishing 5th, 4th or occasionally 3rd every season with United stretching there lead in League titles and Champions League wins ahead of us to the point where they will be uncatchable.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Fully agreed, if your spoonfed shite season after season after a while it will start to taste nice, that's what's happend to our fans to the point now where we accept F.A. Cups, League Cups, U.E.F.A, Cups and finishing 4th as real success instead of just a form of success and we call mediocre to average players very good or world class. I know managers and players change but the clubs standards and fans aims should be set in stone, first is first and second is nowhere that is what we where brought up on and until we get back to that philosophy your going to have to get use to finishing 5th, 4th or occasionally 3rd every season with United stretching there lead in League titles and Champions League wins ahead of us to the point where they will be uncatchable.

I see you conveniently forgot to add european cups to your list of things which are acceptable. I fully agree that we shouldn't accept mediocrity, but if Rafa goes in the near future that is what we will more than likely have for the next while. The only way to NOT accept mediocrity is to stick by a manager who performed miracles in winning us the european cup. There is nobody out there who has the ability to definitely win us the league in their first season should Rafa go.

[Sweet Silver Song]

Fully agreed, if your spoonfed shite season after season after a while it will start to taste nice, that's what's happend to our fans to the point now where we accept F.A. Cups, League Cups, U.E.F.A, Cups and finishing 4th as real success instead of just a form of success and we call mediocre to average players very good or world class. I know managers and players change but the clubs standards and fans aims should be set in stone, first is first and second is nowhere that is what we where brought up on and until we get back to that philosophy your going to have to get use to finishing 5th, 4th or occasionally 3rd every season with United stretching there lead in League titles and Champions League wins ahead of us to the point where they will be uncatchable.

I think Shanks coined the phase 1st is 1st... after we had been champions a few times. It's a bold statement of intent borne by inherent confidence from being champions. I don't think he was using that phase when we were struggling to climb out of the old second division. My point being that even Shanks knew the value of building slowly but surely, in incremental steps. That's more or less where we are now. We're building incrementally. Rafa has to. We are not in a position to say first is first anymore. Because currently we're in the second divsion again- i.e. a division behind Man U and Chelsea. Rafa needs time just like Shanks did. We'll talk about first  is first  after we've won it again.

[Britvic Orange]

I see you conveniently forgot to add european cups to your list of things which are acceptable. I fully agree that we shouldn't accept mediocrity, but if Rafa goes in the near future that is what we will more than likely have for the next while. The only way to NOT accept mediocrity is to stick by a manager who performed miracles in winning us the european cup. There is nobody out there who has the ability to definitely win us the league in their first season should Rafa go.

Rafa may have the midas touch in Europe but in the league we are no nearer to winning it to when he first arrived, he just does'nt take it seriously enough and will always rest players the weekend before big European nights on the Tuesday or Wednesday.

[redprodigal]

Rafa may have the midas touch in Europe but in the league we are no nearer to winning it to when he first arrived, he just does'nt take it seriously enough and will always rest players the weekend before big European nights on the Tuesday or Wednesday.

So, given the fact that we cannot compete with the top 2 regarding money, who do you really think can come in and do a better job than Rafa regarding the league. Do you think that Mourinho, Rijkaard, etc will do any better with limited resources? Tell me one manager who is better technically than ours.

[Trousers]

Rafa may have the midas touch in Europe but in the league we are no nearer to winning it to when he first arrived, he just does'nt take it seriously enough and will always rest players the weekend before big European nights on the Tuesday or Wednesday.

Has someone been watching too much Skysports?
Explain yourself. This statement has no basis in fact whatsoever. Infact it's an outright lie.

EDIT: It's the type of thing a complete ignoramous would say.
You are not a Liverpool fan. you're just pandering to the latest media frenzy and making statements with no basis in fact.
Bitter, Utd, Chelsea which one are you?

[redprodigal]

Has someone been watching too much Skysports?
Explain yourself. This statement has no basis in fact whatsoever. Infact it's an outright lie.

EDIT: It's the type of thing a complete ignoramous would say.
You are not a Liverpool fan. you're just pandering to the latest media frenzy and making statements with no basis in fact.
Bitter, Utd, Chelsea which one are you?

I think he's a bitter, but I'm not sure, could be a Manc but defo not Chelsea.

[Britvic Orange]

So, given the fact that we cannot compete with the top 2 regarding money, who do you really think can come in and do a better job than Rafa regarding the league. Do you think that Mourinho, Rijkaard, etc will do any better with limited resources? Tell me one manager who is better technically than ours.

I honestly think a manager who sends out a team who lets the opposition worry about us first would do a lot better job and get us nearer to the league than what we see now, I also think a manager who plays his best team whenever he can and also prioritises both the league and the Champions league like United, Chelsea and Arsenal do instead of just Europe like Rafa does is the best route to go down when we do bring in our new manager. Just feel Benitez makes the game harder than it really is and gets bogged down to much with tactics and worrying what the opposition is going to do, we need to get back to sending out a teams that asks the questions against poor and middle table teams like Wigan's, Reading's and Portsmouth's of this world.

[Aldridge 8]

Fully agreed, if your spoonfed shite season after season after a while it will start to taste nice, that's what's happend to our fans to the point now where we accept F.A. Cups, League Cups, U.E.F.A, Cups and finishing 4th as real success instead of just a form of success and we call mediocre to average players very good or world class. I know managers and players change but the clubs standards and fans aims should be set in stone, first is first and second is nowhere that is what we where brought up on and until we get back to that philosophy your going to have to get use to finishing 5th, 4th or occasionally 3rd every season with United stretching there lead in League titles and Champions League wins ahead of us to the point where they will be uncatchable.

britvic is correct , under Roy we did challenge for the league watching exciting football along the way but ultimately he failed   , under houllier like him or hate him he failed as up to now benitez premier league wise has failed  , yes Europe brilliant but we are liverpool and the reasons souey, Roy and houllier all got the axe is not because we won the fa cup or a treble it was because we didn't make any impact in the premier league , i have said it earlier about Roy he is one of the great anfield backroom boys along with Reuben Bennett and tom saunders , OK the latter didn't manager but with out these people the club would never have had any success ,

P.S. not forgetting the great Ronnie Moran one of the other trusty lieutenants of liverpool football club .

[Trousers]

I honestly think a manager who sends out a team who lets the opposition worry about us first would do a lot better job and get us nearer to the league than what we see now, I also think a manager who plays his best team whenever he can and also prioritises both the league and the Champions league like United, Chelsea and Arsenal do instead of just Europe like Rafa does is the best route to go down when we do bring in our new manager. Just feel Benitez makes the game harder than it really is and gets bogged down to much with tactics and worrying what the opposition is going to do, we need to get back to sending out a teams that asks the questions against poor and middle table teams like Wigan's, Reading's and Portsmouth's of this world.

Absolute fucking shite. Ferguson rotated more than Rafa and left Ronaldo & Rooney out for league games before CL matches.

Your comments have no basis in fact. And are just Skysports fed lazy agenda driven nonsense.

[RedinExile]

He had a games console addicted terrible professional rookie in goal, and Rob Jones in the treatment room. He can;t be blamed for that.

Oh puh-lease! He was the manager!!! Whose job was it then?

[RedinExile]

britvic is correct , under Roy we did challenge for the league watching exciting football along the way but ultimately he failed   , under houllier like him or hate him he failed as up to now benitez premier league wise has failed  , yes Europe brilliant but we are liverpool and the reasons souey, Roy and houllier all got the axe is not because we won the fa cup or a treble it was because we didn't make any impact in the premier league , i have said it earlier about Roy he is one of the great anfield backroom boys along with Reuben Bennett and tom saunders , OK the latter didn't manager but with out these people the club would never have had any success ,

P.S. not forgetting the great Ronnie Moran one of the other trusty lieutenants of liverpool football club .

Rafa won the CL you mug

[Aldridge 8]

Rafa won the CL you mug

yes like i said great in Europe but PREMIER LEAGUE WISE failed , so what is it forget about the league altogether because of 2005 , no benitez was brought to the club top break the monoploy of Manchester United like he did in Spain spiltting real and barca up but up to now he has failed to do that , and ultimately that's why Roy souey , houllier  all got the sack .

[RedinExile]

The problem I have Aldo with arguments like yours - and sorry for the jibe but it really winds me up - is that this kind of opinion dilutes the magnificent achievements of Liverpool - not just Rafa - but Liverpool, over these past few years. We have done fantastic, and frankly do you look at AC or Real's domestic success or their European exploits? Euro yes?
Please don't discredit OUR fabulous record by dismissing it so readily when comparing PL record. Our results in europe will stand great credit in 20 years under Rafa; god bless that man.

[Aldridge 8]

The problem I have Aldo with arguments like yours - and sorry for the jibe but it really winds me up - is that this kind of opinion dilutes the magnificent achievements of Liverpool - not just Rafa - but Liverpool, over these past few years. We have done fantastic, and frankly do you look at AC or Real's domestic success or their European exploits? Euro yes?
Please don't discredit OUR fabulous record by dismissing it so readily when comparing PL record. Our results in Europe will stand great credit in 20 years under Rafa; god bless that man.

unfortunately in this country the English premier league is just as important or even more important than the champions league me i think they should go hand in hand  , answer me this how many leagues have real won ? milan ? celtic ? no one cares but your record in the league in england does count and yes people do care ask Ferguson he cares .

[bigbear]

yes like i said great in Europe but PREMIER LEAGUE WISE failed , so what is it forget about the league altogether because of 2005 , no benitez was brought to the club top break the monoploy of Manchester United like he did in Spain spiltting real and barca up but up to now he has failed to do that , and ultimately that's why Roy souey , houllier  all got the sack .

Winning this league now is harder than it has ever been.

You've got a billionaire Russian who's throwing money at it like confetti on top of an already strong squad whilst Man Utd have just got stronger and stronger under fairly consistent management and sensible financial growth over the past 20 years.

Whatever we spend (NET) this year you can bet it won't be more than either of them. All that is forgetting a strong Arsenal who've had 11 years of a shrewd manager before you talk about anybody else.

It's nothing to do with Rafa that the club is in turmoil indeed his exploits in Europe have raised circa 75m plus from his 3 successful campaigns (out of 4) (I say successful in a financial not necessarily a winning context).

Nobody could have done better or got us a better squad of young players than he has. Reina, Agger, Skertel, Alonso, Mascheran, Babel and Torres are all great buys. There'sbeen plenty of other good ones on whom he has or will make cash to allow us to improve further. The imporvement in Gerrard and Carra has also been marked.

Rafa does have his faults and some are highlighted above as he fucks about worrying what Birmingham are going to play like against us etc but generally he has got things right. No manager ever has got everything right but in the modern game I don't think anybodt could have achieved the growth he has in his 4 years.

I'm not even sure he's failed in the League. He's kept us in the position to keep building a squad capable of winning a League in the future and will continue to do so.

Benitez in my opinion (and at times he drives me up the wall) has saved Liverpool Football Club from 10 years or more of mediocrity. We are now ranked No 1 in Europe again and feared throughout it which I would have said was impossible when he took over with some of the shite he had in that squad.

He will get us there and keep us improving BUT if Utd and Chelsea keep getting better it makes life even more difficult and he needs some of his big players to deliver v Utd next year and the break of a ball.

It can happen next year and he can win us the Title. I'm not seeing he will but he can and 4 years ago we were only saying that out of desperation not reality or fact.

[RedinExile]

hear hear

[Trousers]

yes like i said great in Europe but PREMIER LEAGUE WISE failed , so what is it forget about the league altogether because of 2005 , no benitez was brought to the club top break the monoploy of Manchester United like he did in Spain spiltting real and barca up but up to now he has failed to do that , and ultimately that's why Roy souey , houllier  all got the sack .

Roy, Souey & to a lesser extent Houllier all competed on a level playing field. Unlike Rafa.

[zimmie'5555]

Glad to see nobody used this thread to bash the 'Spice Boys' or bring up the old 'Evans/Houllier/Souness (and now Rafa, seemingly)' debates

[Sweet Silver Song]

Glad to see nobody used this thread to bash the 'Spice Boys' or bring up the old 'Evans/Houllier/Souness (and now Rafa, seemingly)' debates

Because harsh as it seems, you mention John Arne Riise and I think last minute own goal against Chelsea.

You mention Roy Evans and i think Spice Boys, wasted opportunity and failure.

[Sweet Silver Song]

And in true continuation of my personal assassination of this thread. For those that hold up Roy Evans ‘title challenge’ in 1996/7 as some sort achievement that’s never been repeated by any Liverpool manager since, can I ask what exactly were the fruits of the challenge? Did we use it as a platform to build for a greater challenge in the next few years? Was it the start of something magnificent and solid? Was it when the tide was finally turned?

No, it was none of those things. In fact it was the start of the club declining again. We were back in 8th position and fading fast when he was relieved of his job. I can put it to you, that that title challenge wasn’t because of Roy. It was inspite of Roy. 1996/7 was when the group of talented youngsters he was bequeathed all came to their peak.

And people who compare Roy to what Rafa is doing, is just laughable. Rafa, despite his frustrations, and maybe slower progress than some would like, is still making progress. The progress from one season to the next is palpable and for all of us to see. It might be frustrating to some, but it’s there. That’s what (talented) managers do. They build.

[Bjornar]

I can put it to you, that that title challenge wasn’t because of Roy. It was inspite of Roy. 1996/7 was when the group of talented youngsters he was bequeathed all came to their peak.

Which players were in this group of youngsters who "came to their peak" in 96/97? Jamie Redknapp, who was injured half the season as usual? Rob Jones, who played five games? David James, who suddenly started to make mistake after mistake that season?

Granted, he inherited Fowler and McManaman (who became a star when Evans changed the system to 3-5-2 and gave him a free role). Why was Evans "luckier" in this respect than Houllier, who inherited Fowler, Owen and Gerrard?

[Sweet Silver Song]

Which players were in this group of youngsters who "came to their peak" in 96/97? Jamie Redknapp, who was injured half the season as usual? Rob Jones, who played five games? David James, who suddenly started to make mistake after mistake that season?

Granted, he inherited Fowler and McManaman (who became a star when Evans changed the system to 3-5-2 and gave him a free role). Why was Evans "luckier" in this respect than Houllier, who inherited Fowler, Owen and Gerard?

David James was the best young English keeper around. If handled correctly he could have been a legend for us. One of Evans weaknesses was that he was poor of his staff.

As for Gerard Houillier being luckier. I’m not comparing Evans with Houillier. But since you asked, Houillier in fact did very well with the players he bequeathed. He supplemented those players with worthy additions through the transfer market and won silverware. In comparison with Roy, he never supplemented the young talent with any worth additiosn through the transfer market. As for Silverware, Roy also has the honour of being the Liverpool manager since Shanks who went the longest period without picking up a trophy. Some achievement. 

[Bjornar]

Houillier in fact did very well with the players he bequeathed. He supplemented those players with worthy additions through the transfer market

That's debatable. Owen and Gerrard remained by far our best players throughout the entire Houllier period.

[Jason_King]

He supplemented those players with worthy additions through the transfer market and won silverware

He was also one of the most frivolous- 13m on Diouf and 4.5m an Diao, just to name two....

Pains me to think we could have had Anelka and A N Other, rather than those two wastes of space.

[phil236849]

what's rarely mentioned about roy is that he was ultimately undermined by a bizarre penchant for dodgy left footed central defenders.  ruddock, babb, harkness, staunton, matteo

[Neil D]

Winning this league now is harder than it has ever been.

You've got a billionaire Russian who's throwing money at it like confetti on top of an already strong squad whilst Man Utd have just got stronger and stronger under fairly consistent management and sensible financial growth over the past 20 years.

Whatever we spend (NET) this year you can bet it won't be more than either of them. All that is forgetting a strong Arsenal who've had 11 years of a shrewd manager before you talk about anybody else.

It's nothing to do with Rafa that the club is in turmoil indeed his exploits in Europe have raised circa 75m plus from his 3 successful campaigns (out of 4) (I say successful in a financial not necessarily a winning context).

Nobody could have done better or got us a better squad of young players than he has. Reina, Agger, Skertel, Alonso, Mascheran, Babel and Torres are all great buys. There'sbeen plenty of other good ones on whom he has or will make cash to allow us to improve further. The imporvement in Gerrard and Carra has also been marked.

Rafa does have his faults and some are highlighted above as he fucks about worrying what Birmingham are going to play like against us etc but generally he has got things right. No manager ever has got everything right but in the modern game I don't think anybodt could have achieved the growth he has in his 4 years.

I'm not even sure he's failed in the League. He's kept us in the position to keep building a squad capable of winning a League in the future and will continue to do so.

Benitez in my opinion (and at times he drives me up the wall) has saved Liverpool Football Club from 10 years or more of mediocrity. We are now ranked No 1 in Europe again and feared throughout it which I would have said was impossible when he took over with some of the shite he had in that squad.

He will get us there and keep us improving BUT if Utd and Chelsea keep getting better it makes life even more difficult and he needs some of his big players to deliver v Utd next year and the break of a ball.

It can happen next year and he can win us the Title. I'm not seeing he will but he can and 4 years ago we were only saying that out of desperation not reality or fact.

Fucking great post that. I wish some people would wake up and realise it's not the seventies or eighties anymore. We don't have a divine right to win the league and fans who are pleased with what Rafa has achieved are not settling for mediocrity. They just realise the challenge is greater than ever and United and Chelsea are better teams than us with loads more money. Rafa is slowly building a title challenging side, while gaining incredible results in Europe. The difference between him and Souness, Ged and Roy is that while the last two nearly mounted league challenges neither of them matched Rafa's success in Europe nor won a major trophy.

[Red in Korea]

Fucking great post that. I wish some people would wake up and realise it's not the seventies or eighties anymore. We don't have a divine right to win the league and fans who are pleased with what Rafa has achieved are not settling for mediocrity. They just realise the challenge is greater than ever and United and Chelsea are better teams than us with loads more money. Rafa is slowly building a title challenging side, while gaining incredible results in Europe. The difference between him and Souness, Ged and Roy is that while the last two nearly mounted league challenges neither of them matched Rafa's success in Europe nor won a major trophy.

Agreed. Another point to consider is that Rafa clearly has a long term vision and most fans can see that progress is being made towards establishing a basis for long term success (as Big bear points out, under the most difficult of cicumstances).

The lack of this (and the style of play) is what ultimately cost Houllier his job. Everyone could see that under Souness the future vision was a downward spiral. Under Evans, it was more like he was surviving from year to year, but promising very little for the future.

[minusone]

Once again, someone brings up Rafa's PL record, decries his ability at understanding the league, proclaims we are no closer to winning it than when Houllier was in charge...

... and never makes a suggestion for a better alternative.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Once again, someone brings up Rafa's PL record, decries his ability at understanding the league, proclaims we are no closer to winning it than when Houllier was in charge...

... and never makes a suggestion for a better alternative.

Exactly. I asked for alternatives earlier and nobody gave any. The people that think Rafa would be sacked forget who we were linked with the last time the job was available: Martin O'Neill and Alan Curbishley. I'm so grateful we got Rafa instead. I dread to think what may have happened with Curbishley in charge, and there is nothing to suggest O'Neill would have done a better job. He's making progress in the league with Villa, but progress is slow, much like Rafa's progress is relatively slow in the league. Plus, I doubt O'Neill would have taken us on long runs in the CL. Under O'Neill we'd be a decent team in the league with little hope of catching Utd and Chelsea and we'd probably be getting first and second round exits in the CL.

If we were linked to similar names now I think a lot of people would be very underwhelmed. Even if we were realistically linked to a host of top names, this would be completely down to Rafa making us one of the biggest clubs in Europe again. It really does show how much he's done for this club.

[Guaranga]

Once again, someone brings up Rafa's PL record, decries his ability at understanding the league, proclaims we are no closer to winning it than when Houllier was in charge...

... and never makes a suggestion for a better alternative.

So he can take the suggestion from some forum and use it in the league?You wanna ask whether what was  said was correct or not.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

So he can take the suggestion from some forum and use it in the league?You wanna ask whether what was  said was correct or not.

I think he was talking about potential managers if Rafa were to leave.

[Guaranga]

I think he was talking about potential managers if Rafa were to leave.

Yeh overall I like Rafa but we've seen some poor play last season.It's fair to point that out without having an immediate replacement for him.

[Sweet Silver Song]

He was also one of the most frivolous- 13m on Diouf and 4.5m an Diao, just to name two....

Pains me to think we could have had Anelka and A N Other, rather than those two wastes of space.

He also bought us LFC legends like Hamman and Sami. Name me one decent player, let alone legned, that  Evans bought.

[Guaranga]

He also bought us LFC legends like Hamman and Sami. Name me one decent player, let alone legned, that  Evans bought.

I'd say Stan was a decent player didn't he sign him?A fuck up yes but still a decent player.