Topic: The Government want people to return to the office. How do we feel about that?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

So, to complement the other thread on this, now that the Government want us all to return to the office, what do we think?

[B0151?]

I don't think it's wrong for politicians to be concerned with employers choosing to use this as a chance to cost-cut and do something that's not for the benefit of employees

Companies will portray this as 'flexible working', when there are going to be people denied the choice to go back to working in an office and will be forced to work from home (or find a new job)

This is happening already and it's already had big local impact

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-56536543

Santander have scrapped plans to build a new site in Bootle, construction would have already been underway without Covid. And Instead, they are actually shutting the original site down that's been in use for 50+ years, previously the home of Girobank. 2000 workers will be forced to work from home permanently. And that's not to mention the impact on the trades in the surrounding area, as well as taxis and so on.

I don't think politicians can ignore this issue as it's going to be rapid changes in areas that were hoping to recover from Covid  I don't know exactly what they can do, but any decisions by companies that will put people out of work is worth their attention absolutely...

[Elmo!]

Ideally I'd like to work from home 3 or 4 days a week but I won't get away with that as we need a certain number from our team in the office once everyone else is back, but I would settle for 3 days a week in the office.

[rob1966]

I don't need to be in the office and hate being there as I get interrupted far too much and it affects my concentration. Even though my commute is only 5 miles, I hate it due to the inbred thick as fuck Mancs who manage to make it take 30 minutes due to not understanding that blocking yellow boxes fucks up traffic flow

Talk is 2 days a month, I can live with that.

[Schmidt]

I'll probably aim to go back to the office regularly, I live close by anyway and it's easier to stick to my work hours if I have to be in the office at a certain time. I think I've also just had some issues with spending way too much time at my desk when at home, at least at the office I need to get up to travel there and back, plus it's close to the gym and I miss my old routine of working out every lunch.

I might work from home on days where I have something else planned, like a lunch trip to the driving range, or on days where I just can't be bothered going in.

[TepidT2O]

It isn’t going to happen.  Companies are not planning to return the way they were.  Some time in the office?  Yes. But no way all

[rob1966]

I'll probably aim to go back to the office regularly, I live close by anyway and it's easier to stick to my work hours if I have to be in the office at a certain time. I think I've also just had some issues with spending way too much time at my desk when at home, at least at the office I need to get up to travel there and back, plus it's close to the gym and I miss my old routine of working out every lunch.

I might work from home on days where I have something else planned, like a lunch trip to the driving range, or on days where I just can't be bothered going in.

I've got physio Tuesday due to this - I'm going to get exercises from her and set a timer to make sure I get up every 20-30 minutes

[Dench57]

I could live with going in 1-3 days a week but can't bear the thought of going back in full-time. Getting up at 8.45 instead of 7 has been lovely, I'm so much more rested and relaxed, and I get the same amount of work done. Do not miss that 2 hour commute every day. My work recently built a big, shiny office for the 2,000 employees though, so I'd assume that makes it more likely they want people back in.

[Schmidt]

I've got physio Tuesday due to this - I'm going to get exercises from her and set a timer to make sure I get up every 20-30 minutes

Yeah it can cause so many problems if you're not careful. I had the odd issue back when I worked in the office but regular gym trips kept me fairly healthy, but the last few months I've definitely had a lot more issues around my calves, forearms, ankles, etc. I've just ordered a standing desk for home (I have one at the office already, but we just moved to a new place so hopefully it hasn't "accidentally" ended up with one of the managers), so that should help once I can get back into the habit of using it.

[Jiminy Cricket]

It isn’t going to happen.  Companies are not planning to return the way they were.  Some time in the office?  Yes. But no way all

And I would suggest given the implications of WFH will have on costs, many bosses and companies who would like all their staff in the office will need to change tack to remain competitive. It seems inevitable that the office work landscape will change, and not just for some companies.

[TepidT2O]

And I would suggest given the implications of WFH will have on costs, many bosses and companies who would like all their staff in the office will need to change tack to remain competitive. It seems inevitable that the office work landscape will change, and not just for some companies.

Plus, the top end sales people?  They wine and dine, they stay in nice hotels.  None of that has happened and they’re  still making money.

It’s a gravy train, and not having it has made very little impact and saved millions and millions in costs.

[Red_Mist]

I used to work two days from home pre-covid and have been working from home all the time for the last year. For me, I’d be happy to carry on with the current arrangements with maybe the odd visit to work to catch up in person, say once a month. It’s saved me lots of money in rail fares and I’ve been a lot more productive work-wise, so get less stressed about workload building up. I think my company is potentially going to accommodate everyone’s wishes. That’s the noises they’re making anyway. We’ll see. I love working from home but some of my colleagues hate it, so if it’s a ‘horses for courses’ policy that would make a lot of sense for us.

The technology (Teams) seemed to come in at exactly the right time. It used to be a bit of a ball ache arranging a meeting as we’re spread out over three sites. But now? Dead easy, just set up a Teams mtg, job done. There’s the odd connection failure and sometimes it’s harder to read the mood in a virtual meeting compared to being in person. But generally it’s been a huge and positive step forward for the way we all work. If we do have to all go back to the office it could be a bit noisy and distracting as we’ve all got used to yabbering away on Teams all day.

[rob1966]

^

We have a daily department meeting, there's the core 11 and then the director pops in now and again or one of the 2 project managers. We're spread out between London, Cardiff, Birmingham and the North West and its great.

I'm also learning the phone system, I do some Admin and am building the disaster recovery. The woman who is teaching me works in London and just by webex meetings, screen sharing and screenshots I'm picking it all up. If we need to chat its a quick webex meeting, so much better than emails and phone calls.

[jillcwhomever]

It isn’t going to happen.  Companies are not planning to return the way they were.  Some time in the office?  Yes. But no way all

Yep, the council department I work for has already said that very thing, it won't go back to the way it was, especially as they can see some people are able to work from home.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

[Red_Mist]

^

We have a daily department meeting, there's the core 11 and then the director pops in now and again or one of the 2 project managers. We're spread out between London, Cardiff, Birmingham and the North West and its great.

I'm also learning the phone system, I do some Admin and am building the disaster recovery. The woman who is teaching me works in London and just by webex meetings, screen sharing and screenshots I'm picking it all up. If we need to chat its a quick webex meeting, so much better than emails and phone calls.

Completely agree, much better way of working for us too. Everyone used to have an auto phone on their desk, quick 5 digit job so was easy. Then we moved to hot desking so you had to remember to login to the auto phone where you were sitting. Everyone forgot so you’d either get no answer or get through to someone else who was sat there. Could never get hold of anyone! Now you can see if they’re online and free, hit the button and you’re chatting away and screen sharing like you say. Maybe most companys have been working like this for years, no idea, but it’s fairly new for us and even for an auld Luddite like myself, it’s great.

[Elmo!]

^

We have a daily department meeting, there's the core 11 and then the director pops in now and again or one of the 2 project managers. We're spread out between London, Cardiff, Birmingham and the North West and its great.

I'm also learning the phone system, I do some Admin and am building the disaster recovery. The woman who is teaching me works in London and just by webex meetings, screen sharing and screenshots I'm picking it all up. If we need to chat its a quick webex meeting, so much better than emails and phone calls.

We're actually working on integrating our phone system into Teams so users can have all calls to their work mobiles and desk phones redirected to Teams, as well as being able to dial out to phone numbers from Teams.

[KillieRed]

I’m ready for it, but it’s a big building & I’m in & out all the time. A lot of people, including the girl I share with, have found working from home very do-able.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

I know plans for one big company around me bringing their work force back to the office. Basically, the one taking the piss at home will be brought back first. Makes sense, I've heard of some who call their manager saying they can't work because they have run of paper or need new batteries. It will be interesting to see how it develops. I can see problems ahead, not just with them if that kind of strategy is brought in.

For me, I missed the first 10 weeks or something, but have been back in the office since June. I've said I would be happy to work from home but been told it wasn't workable. It was OK when I got snowed in for a few days though.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

We had the option of working from home as we needed to and you'd get away with up to 2 days a week from home before people would raise eyebrows. But now we are going to switch to an official hybrid model which means you'll be expected to work remotely 40% of the time unless you can't for some reason. No doubt office space will be reduced even more than it has. Won't change much for me as I normally WFH on Monday and Friday anyway.

[B0151?]

I definitely prefer working from home in my current job. I was spending prob £80 a month on transport, 10 hours a week getting to and from work... I see it as basically a payrise. Less expenses and more free time.

I think when things open back up it will give me more energy, money and time to enjoy my life.

I don't think office life will vanish, it prob won't at all for some people depending on the circumstance, and I don't think it's all benefits. But the commute to work was definitely the grimmest part of my life, something about it just used to depress and stress me in a quite bad way at times.

[spen71]

Will further kill the high street and local shops.   A lot of them rely on the passing trade.   We will all
Moan that there is no where to get a latte.

[Wabaloolah]

Will further kill the high street and local shops.   A lot of them rely on the passing trade.   We will all
Moan that there is no where to get a latte.

here's a thought, brew your own at home! Coffee shops are an expensive luxury I can certainly afford to miss out on!

[Wabaloolah]

I've not been into my office since 2018. Been working for the company for 17 years and I would guess I've been to the office less than 50 times in total during that period.

That said I do travel to health authorities, doctor's surgeries etc to show the staff how to use our IT systems that we sell to them, for 16 of those years I did that face to face in person, which meant stays away from home at least two nights per week most weeks of the year.

We've changed our approach & delivered training online via Teams instead and still managed to implement our states successfully.

Even when the restrictions are lifted I doubt we will ever go back  to travelling as much as we did before. Some training is delivered best face to face but I don't want to be on the road from Monday through Friday when we have shown we can successfully implement our software remotely.

We get less travelling and a better work life balance, the company remains profitable and saves money on travel expenses and our customers still get to use our software.

I can see in the future a 10 day implementation wi be 7 days remote and 3 on site maximum.

The downside is I'll probably lose my £500 a month car allowance! If that happens then I won't renew my lease in October, they can hire me a car to use as and when I am needed at customer offices.

[RainbowFlick]

They (Rishi and co) want to save the commercial property portfolios of their peers and the big businesses like Pret A Manger. They'll pretend their concern is centered around employees but that's nonsense. It certainly seems ridiculous to suggest people should start cramming on to the tube/train during a pandemic anyway when the majority aren't vaccinated. I also feel like they know this will be unsuccessful in London and will start to blame TFL debts on Sadiq and push for the "ending" of the London Mayor role.

There are of course benefits to working in an office at times but a lot of industries have realised their employees work perfectly efficiently from home and are able to continue working like normal. The bit I think that is missed the most are the training aspects for more junior members. Corporate types definitely overestimate the 'office camaraderie' of their wider teams - I think normal people generally if you talk to people frankly about it aren't that bothered about workplace relationships or even going out for a weekly drink with their team, maybe just on occasion.

I think businesses need to reimagine how this works. Provide flexible desk arrangements if necessary but understand many will not want to go back to an office full time now. My company will only ask us to come in if we have important meetings, training or some special event. I work for a start-up that's funded by one of the biggest insurance and investment companies in the world, but even their main business units aren't planning to return any time soon - and it seems likely they too will be on flexible working from home arrangements.

If I move jobs, I will now expect working from home to not be sneered upon or an occasional thing and would be pushing for full-time. I'd even take a pay-cut if necessary. I simply do not want to have to commute 1.5-2 hours for 5 days a week to do something I can do from the comfort of my bedroom. The job is soul crushing enough itself, I don't need to be seeing people wearing Karrimor backpacks running to catch the train.

I would be willing to support my local high street too, something I've never had a need to do before. I'll get a lunch or coffee from a local business instead of being forced to eat some crap Pret A Manger sandwich. I would like to see a focus for businesses to move to more of a "local" focus but without the big franchises taking up the high street.

[Shankly998]

As others have said going back to the office full time is just not going to happen and any business that does try and make people be back in the office full time are going to find it more difficult to recruit/retain staff so the reluctant employers will find themselves outcompeted.

When I next go for a new job in the interview my first question is going to be about the working from home policy and if there isn't one well I won't be working for them.

[Eeyore]

The most surprising bit for me has been the friction between myself and the other half. I thought me working from home might have brought us closer together.

Unfortunately we have barely spoken since I tarmacked the hall stairs and landing. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The most surprising bit for me has been the friction between myself and the other half. I thought me working from home might have brought us closer together.

Unfortunately we have barely spoken since I tarmacked the hall stairs and landing. 

You forgot to install the traffic lights and pedestrian crossing didn't you? Schoolboy error.

[liversaint]

Will further kill the high street and local shops.   A lot of them rely on the passing trade.   We will all
Moan that there is no where to get a latte.

Not a sentence that will ever pass my lips.

[RainbowFlick]

The most surprising bit for me has been the friction between myself and the other half. I thought me working from home might have brought us closer together.

Unfortunately we have barely spoken since I tarmacked the hall stairs and landing.

[gregor]

I've been WFH for most of the last year. I was in the office full time previously, although my job can involve visiting different parts of the country from time to time, all over the north west and midlands. The plan seems to be that we will be working one day a week in the office going forward, for a day where we get together and have meetings etc. Rest of the time will be from home. I'd happily work from home 5 days a week, but 4 at home and one in the office seems a decent balance. I'm not exaggerating when I say working from home has been life changing for me really - my commute to work was about 22 miles from door to door and that could take an hour or longer in the morning depending on traffic. Typically it took about 40 minutes but even with that it's amazing not having to do it, not to mention the fuel costs I'm saving. Over the winter particularly it's been great not having that scenario where it's dark by the time I'm leaving work. I'm sleeping more, I go for a lunchtime walk with the dog, and just generally have a much nicer time working than I've ever done before.

The other thing is that my office isn't in a city centre, it's in a business park with not much around it. I do feel sorry for the likes of the sandwich man who used to come round every lunchtime in his van, I expect he will really struggle or be out of business by now. But if we never go back to full time in the office I won't miss it at all.

[Nobby Reserve]

I've been WFH for most of the last year. I was in the office full time previously, although my job can involve visiting different parts of the country from time to time, all over the north west and midlands. The plan seems to be that we will be working one day a week in the office going forward, for a day where we get together and have meetings etc. Rest of the time will be from home. I'd happily work from home 5 days a week, but 4 at home and one in the office seems a decent balance. I'm not exaggerating when I say working from home has been life changing for me really - my commute to work was about 22 miles from door to door and that could take an hour or longer in the morning depending on traffic. Typically it took about 40 minutes but even with that it's amazing not having to do it, not to mention the fuel costs I'm saving. Over the winter particularly it's been great not having that scenario where it's dark by the time I'm leaving work. I'm sleeping more, I go for a lunchtime walk with the dog, and just generally have a much nicer time working than I've ever done before.

The other thing is that my office isn't in a city centre, it's in a business park with not much around it. I do feel sorry for the likes of the sandwich man who used to come round every lunchtime in his van, I expect he will really struggle or be out of business by now. But if we never go back to full time in the office I won't miss it at all.

That is very close to my scenario.

But we're being encouraged to go back into the office for 2/3 days a week from summer (a day a week from May'ish).

I personally want to do it. I need a kick up the arse because the past 6 months I've increasingly struggled for motivation and become way too easily distracted (not least by messageboard forums  )

[wampa1]

Been working from for the past year and it is being made a permanent thing. They claim they are keeping the office but the lease is up in November. The office is about 10 minutes from me so I don't mind going in.  However, I can already see them giving up the lease in November, and then not long after start saying that everyone that everyone has to come into a new office which will end up being a million miles away.

[wampa1]

I was spending prob £80 a month on transport, 10 hours a week getting to and from work... I see it as basically a payrise..

Until you see your water, gas and electricity bills : D

[AndyInVA]

Plus, the top end sales people?  They wine and dine, they stay in nice hotels.  None of that has happened and they’re  still making money.

It’s a gravy train, and not having it has made very little impact and saved millions and millions in costs.

exactly. i see the outcomes in a couple of years as interesting for some academics

will companies need a sales force of shiny cars and people on expense accounts when some sales can be done by zoom, similarly the cost benefit analysis for some companies between WFH and rent and utility payments.

[rob1966]

Until you see your water, gas and electricity bills : D

Ours has barely changed, we're with Octopus and they haven't adjusted the DD over the past 12 months.

[B0151?]

Until you see your water, gas and electricity bills : D

We are actually being given an extra few hundred quid to account for that. Was a one off payment this and last year, will go into our salary from next

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Until you see your water, gas and electricity bills : D

Water, Gas and Electricity increases are nowhere near what it cost to commute, plus all the incidentals like food, snacks and the like - plus going out because you're in town etc.

[PaulF]

I simply do not want to have to commute 1.5-2 hours for 5 days a week to do something I can do from the comfort of my bedroom. The job is soul crushing enough itself, I don't need to be seeing people wearing Karrimor backpacks running to catch the train.

What's wrong with Karrimor ? Is it a sports direct thing?

[PaulF]

Water, Gas and Electricity increases are nowhere near what it cost to commute, plus all the incidentals like food, snacks and the like - plus going out because you're in town etc.

hotels because you were too pissed to get the last train home....