Author Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD  (Read 3113143 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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David Lynch saying that Ben Davies is going to Sheff U (confirmed by their manager).

We want to sell, but it’s likely to be a loan first.

Quote
Slavisa Jokanovic has confirmed Sheffield United are interested in signing Ben Davies. #LFC keen to strike a permanent deal but accept a loan more likely as things stand
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Any more bids for Origi? Maybe the 20 million we quoted scared everybody off
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #42 on: August 5, 2021, 02:37:47 pm »
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about Phillips, it seemed like a lot of clubs were interested a few weeks ago then nothing since.

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Any more bids for Origi? Maybe the 20 million we quoted scared everybody off

No club is paying anywhere near £20m for him post covid.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #44 on: August 5, 2021, 02:41:56 pm »
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about Phillips, it seemed like a lot of clubs were interested a few weeks ago then nothing since.

Reckon he leaves right in the last day or two of the window, if at all. Gives them 2 or 3 league games to see how the returnees are doing! But with Davies going, Nat may stick around till January.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #45 on: August 5, 2021, 02:43:03 pm »
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about Phillips, it seemed like a lot of clubs were interested a few weeks ago then nothing since.

My guess is clubs are doing to us what we're maybe doing to others, and leaving it as late as they can as they're sorted in that position. Burnley have Mee, Tarkowski and Collins ready for the start of the season, Brighton have plenty there too even without White. Or it could be that we've already agreed to sell him but are waiting to sign players (which we've agreed isn't likely!) Or it could be a case of the clinicals and we're asking £45 million for him.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #46 on: August 5, 2021, 02:48:36 pm »
No club is paying anywhere near £20m for him post covid.

doesn't his contract expire in 12 months? ... if so his value is closer to 5 million than 20

Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #47 on: August 5, 2021, 02:50:26 pm »
We fucked up about 8 months of his career for nothing.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #48 on: August 5, 2021, 02:51:38 pm »
We fucked up about 8 months of his career for nothing.



Who?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #49 on: August 5, 2021, 02:57:51 pm »
I'd give up my third testicle to be a Liverpool player for 8 months.

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #50 on: August 5, 2021, 02:58:47 pm »
We fucked up about 8 months of his career for nothing.

That’s a very over the top take!

He only ‘lost’ half a season’s match playing time - but he was also injured for part of that anyway. The rest of it he was with Liverpool and working with Jürgen Klopp and his coaches, not sure how that’s fucking up a career. He should be better for it.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #51 on: August 5, 2021, 03:00:24 pm »
Oh, Davies :D

I mean we took him from a mid-table Championship team to training with PL and CL winners for six months, mega pay rise I'd guess along with a nice signing on fee and he's still got the same sort of options available to him now that he would have anyway. He's done brilliantly out of this.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #52 on: August 5, 2021, 03:00:41 pm »
I'd give up my third testicle to be a Liverpool player for 8 months.

That’s a load of bollocks  mate.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #53 on: August 5, 2021, 03:08:45 pm »
I think Samiebot was taking the piss, but it is strange thinking from those who do hold that opinion.

It's almost like he had no choice in the decision making process and actively chose to move to us.

Offline Arrowsmith

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David Lynch saying that Ben Davies is going to Sheff U (confirmed by their manager).

I wonder if he heard that from the Log Lady?
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Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....
The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups
At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question
Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were
To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term

This is where I'm at basically. Given some of the above uncertainties it feels to me like this is a time to start bringing in long term replacements for some of our top players. We shouldn't wait until next season and the season after, both because if we do we won't have time to do anything about it if the replacements aren't up to it but also because if the current crop are dropping off we won't be able to do anything about it this season. This goes for Firmino, Mane and Henderson to some extent.

Offline Chip Evans

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David Lynch saying that Ben Davies is going to Sheff U

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #59 on: August 5, 2021, 04:02:17 pm »
Looks like his career is a series of Twin Peaks and troughs

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #60 on: August 5, 2021, 04:06:08 pm »
Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....
The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups
At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question
Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were
To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term

Good post mate

Offline redk84

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #61 on: August 5, 2021, 04:12:51 pm »
Klopp has three seasons with us.
I think he will win atleast one more title with us...

Of all the players there now, I am not sure how many of them will be there by the end of his contract (especially in midfield and attack)...so if we can strengthen in areas we need to we should do so, it will be less for us to do at a later date.
We may not have to, but if the right player is available then why not take the opportunity - i don't believe we have no money to spend

Unless we are banking on this season and this set of players to do the business and then rebuild off that.

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Offline El Lobo

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Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....

The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups

At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question

Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were

To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term

Most of that seems to be 'plan for the worst' though.

The right back issue is a fair question though, always find it a bit odd we're not linked with anyone there but then it'd probably end up like Robbo in that we're always going to play them the vast majority of the time, so where does a good young attacking RB get time to improve? Plus....Trents only 22. I'm guessing its why Hoever left, probably why Williams is open to it. There's probably no route into the first team for a right back for the next decade.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Chip Evans

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #63 on: August 5, 2021, 04:17:58 pm »
Been thinking about why we didn't end up going for Malen....

I wonder if Edwards went out in his car for a bit and had a Mull the Holland player Drive, then thought, nah?



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David Lynch saying that Ben Davies is going to Sheff U (confirmed by their manager).

We want to sell, but it’s likely to be a loan first.

Must have been around for years that journo. Was there when we lost heighway to minnesota kicks

Offline FowlerLegend

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Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....
The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups
At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question
Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were
To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term
Agree with this. Let's see what we can get over the line over the next few weeks.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #66 on: August 5, 2021, 04:30:29 pm »
Been thinking about why we didn't end up going for Malen....


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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #67 on: August 5, 2021, 05:18:51 pm »
Given some of the above uncertainties it feels to me like this is a time to start bringing in long term replacements for some of our top players. We shouldn't wait until next season and the season after, both because if we do we won't have time to do anything about it if the replacements aren't up to it but also because if the current crop are dropping off we won't be able to do anything about it this season. This goes for Firmino, Mane and Henderson to some extent.

When you say bring in replacements, what do you exactly mean?

Because when I look at the squad I see Jota as being brought in as an eventual replacement for one of the front 3. I see Konate being brought in as a potential replacement for VvD or Matip. We also have some emerging young players who can contribute now but could easily grow into much bigger roles in the squad in the next few years.

The replacement of the key players in the squad seems like it will be a continual thing over the next few seasons. A process that we've started already with some of our acquisitions. I personally don't feel the whole squad needs to be ripped up and replaced at this point, even if there are some reasonable doubts currently about some players. I think we have some very painful examples in our past (1991-1994) were we ripped apart a title challenging squad too quickly, and that had knock on effects for years after.

So to go back to the original question, what do you mean by replacements for our key players?For example, are you saying we should buy someone now to replace Firmino? Or that maybe we should have Mane and Salah's long term replacement on the books now incase, in Mane's instance, his drop in form last season was not a blip?Or are you saying you want to see more of a Konate/Jota type approach to squad evolution, where the players can contribute now and have the ceiling to be potential key players in the future?

Based on your post I don't quite get what you mean. Would be good to explain further what type of approach you are advocating and some of the potential knock on benefits and challenges.
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Offline Romford_Red

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #68 on: August 5, 2021, 05:28:58 pm »
To answer the question posed in the title..

Do we have a right to complain? I would say "yes, of course", then ask in return - do we have a reason to?

That becomes harder to answer I think. As Fucking Appalled has laid out - our squad is in a really, really strong place. Almost definitely the strongest it's been since the club was formed, maybe 2001 aside. Are there areas we could add additional players so that it was even stronger, again yes for sure, RB cover could be improved probably, our 5th choice attacker could be better suited to the style we play, there's a question mark over whether two of our midfield options (assuming this is where Ox is seen) are able to be fit enough to contribute.

So, after identifying the areas where we think we can easily improve the next step is to either think about the cost, value and ramifications of doing so. A few off the top of my head

- the amount of minutes those additions are likely to get and whether this fits with what the players you've targeted want.
- the value that these players would bring to the squad in comparison to the transfer fee, agent fee and wages - are they going to significantly increase our chances of being successful?
- Whether there is a knock on in terms of not being able to register other members of the squad. Subsequently to this - what that does in terms of the unwanted players market value and also to the morale of the group
- Opportunity cost - if we bring in players that strengthen those positions does that hinder us from pursuing better players in the future - because of the impact to available registration slots, playing minutes or cash to buy them with
- Opportunity cost - if we don't bring players in in these positions will this hinder our chances of achieving our targets and then have a knock on effect of hurting our chances of improving through quality purchases in the future

My frustration with a few posters and some of the discussions is because it seems that their starting position is "I want a new signing" and are happy to use that last point above in order to justify it without even stopping to consider for a moment if a) they're right or b) any of the other impacts of getting new players in.

I've seen a few people referencing Paisley and saying "If you don't strengthen you stand still" but I'd question whether the world in which Paisley worked and where we work today is even remotely the same? I saw that we revamped our youth system in 1998 - "to enhance it from the previous informal system" but I have no idea what sort of numbers of youth players the club had on its books back in those days. Did Paisley have a full squad of u23s and u18s that he could see the future being developed in? Did he have a 1st team squad of around 27/28 players - some of which have barely featured or are being developed in house and through the loan system in order to strengthen us in the future?

One of my other gripes is with a number of posts that have, at best, implied we've not really spent or strengthened under FSG and in particular 'recently'. This is patently, clearly and factually bullshit. Every season up until now we've bought at least 3 players across the summer and winter transfer windows. https://www.transfermarkt.us/fc-liverpool/alletransfers/verein/31 People will immediately jump on the 19/20 season for this and it's the only one where there's even a debate. That season we added Harvey Elliott, Sepp Van Den Berg and Takumi Minamino. So that season aside, where we have to ignore the fact that Elliott was seen by most clubs in the world as a huge talent and is possibly ready to contribute to the first team squad this season, we've spent and improved the squad in every window with at least 3 first team players up until this window. This window we immediately addressed the key weakness in the squad - Centrehalf - with a young monster of a human with huge potential. So what exactly is the beef here? Is that they haven't signed the players that *you* wanted? That they haven't spent money to the same level as other clubs? If it's the latter - WHY do you care what we spend? Surely it's about what we end up with? And at that point I refer you back to Fucking Appalled's first 18 lists (whilst asking you to consider which players on our books don't appear there)

So back to my question - do we have a reason to complain?

I don't really see one. I think our starting 11 is as strong as anything else that can be fielded in Europe. I think our CB and CM cover is, talent wise, as good as you could realistically hope for. We've got decent cover in the left fullback position and players who can do a job at RB if needed. In attack we've got the obvious front three who have a real competitor for their spots in Jota. Beyond that we have versatile players who can bring respite through rotation in Shaq & Ox, and we have further numbers in Origi and Minamino - Origi arguable fits into the previous category as well.

I would like us to move Origi, Shaq & maybe Minamino on and bring in a 5th forward either around or above the level and potential of Jota but ideally more suited to competing directly with Firmino. This forum (and footy manager) tells me that Martinez at Inter would be pretty ideal, but I'm not too aware of players playing outside of England. That seems to take into account all of the considerations I could think of earlier in the post with the exception of whether the new signing would be happy with that role and level of competition.

If we do, I think it would probably marginally increase our chances of winning the league/CL and more than marginally improve our chances in the domestic cups. I don't think there's any realistic business, or potentially ANY business, we could do that would make us certain to win either of the big ones. The competition is too rich & strong and the variables too many.

If we don't do any more than Konate, I think we'd be 2nd favourites for the league and amongst the top 3/4 favourites for the CL. I think we'd naturally strengthen and improve from last season by

- Curtis Jones being a year older, stronger, more adapted, more settled, more skilled, more aware.
- Harvey Elliott being part of the squad
- Van Dijk, Gomez, Matip, Keita and Ox being fit
- All the above 5 and the rest of the squad having a proper pre-season with Klopp (Something that even pre-covid they didn't necessarily get due to commercial constraints)
- The season being less congested
- Fans being back in the ground. Anfield isn't up for debate I don't think, but I think this team thrives off our away end and killing home ground atmospheres.
- The motivation and hunger from a season where I feel that they feel they were on track to win the title and were robbed by two thuggish morons in Everton shirts and a run of awful luck.

At some point this squad, and key players, need to be refreshed/replaced. I don't see why that is this year.


Not a lot to add to this to be honest.

Man City and Chelsea particularly, have made it seem that in order to compete you need to have a replacement 1st XI where there is little drop off in performance (despite that actually not being the case for either club) and so people get their knickers all twisty when we don't try and emulate that.

I think that to even try would be stupid. I like how we operate and would rather stay like that. I've long been hyper aware of the fact that most transfers are 50/50 whether they work or not, so I tend to get neither over excited nor despondent for most signings (though I might get excited if we were to get a ham bappy).
I honestly don't know how some people don't have massive ulcers, the way they worry and fret during silly season.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #69 on: August 5, 2021, 05:30:35 pm »
Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....
The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups
At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question
Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were
To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term

I agree with this. In the sense at least that we have a number of question marks about certain key players. We enter the season with a certain level of risk and uncertainty about what level this squad is at.

But what do we do to mitigate that? I personally think Konate is part of that mitigation for example. He's also, hopefully a key part of our long term succession planning.

I think the club is in a difficult place overall about the risk we take with this current squad in 2021/22. You can't just cast Firmino, VvD, Matip, Gomez , Mane and Henderson to the side because of questions about durability and/or retaining their peak form. I just don't see that as possible. I equally don't see it as feasible to buy lots of new depth to cover these players with players of equal or close to equal ability. Beyond the finances there just isn't enough squad space or the ability to shift players in this window.

This season is a bit of a leap of faith in certain players and their ability to stay fit and/or return to top form. It's arguably a high risk/high reward approach. Equally I don't think it's one that the club has that much choice over. They could mitigate the risk a small amount if they can move out 1 or 2 and get in 1 or 2 other players. But even in those circumstances the level of signing you are looking at isn't going to change our season's fortunes greatly if a number of the key players either continue to have durability concerns or continue on a downward trajectory in terms of form.

I can see this season as one where we could equally return to our very best or be a Top 4 team due to issue with key players. I think net summer we'll have a much better idea about where certain players are at and how quickly we may need to replace certain individuals. At this point there's still too much uncertainty so we need to trust the coaching staff and the players that they can get back to the levels they were at only 12-18 months ago.
I think Jookie might just be the best fisherman on this thread.

Offline Knight

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #70 on: August 5, 2021, 05:50:04 pm »
When you say bring in replacements, what do you exactly mean?

Because when I look at the squad I see Jota as being brought in as an eventual replacement for one of the front 3. I see Konate being brought in as a potential replacement for VvD or Matip. We also have some emerging young players who can contribute now but could easily grow into much bigger roles in the squad in the next few years.

The replacement of the key players in the squad seems like it will be a continual thing over the next few seasons. A process that we've started already with some of our acquisitions. I personally don't feel the whole squad needs to be ripped up and replaced at this point, even if there are some reasonable doubts currently about some players. I think we have some very painful examples in our past (1991-1994) were we ripped apart a title challenging squad too quickly, and that had knock on effects for years after.

So to go back to the original question, what do you mean by replacements for our key players?For example, are you saying we should buy someone now to replace Firmino? Or that maybe we should have Mane and Salah's long term replacement on the books now incase, in Mane's instance, his drop in form last season was not a blip?Or are you saying you want to see more of a Konate/Jota type approach to squad evolution, where the players can contribute now and have the ceiling to be potential key players in the future?

Based on your post I don't quite get what you mean. Would be good to explain further what type of approach you are advocating and some of the potential knock on benefits and challenges.

Thanks, good question. I think by replacements I mean long term replacements in the core 14 player or so group for Henderson, Firmino, Mane, Salah and Gini/Thiago (if Thiago was the Gini replacement we'll need a Thiago replacement soonish). At some point all of the above will drop off, or they already have started to in certain cases, and we'll need to faze new players into the core group. It's clear that Henderson, Firmino and Mane's contract situations are quite complicated and we may not renew/ may not renew on terms that they'd be happy with, this shows we're aware we need to be transitioning certain core players out of the core group. But we also don't seem to think we need to be bringing in potential replacements this season. If that's true (and I suspect we're briefing one thing and doing another so the proof will be in the end of transfer window pudding) then I think it's a mistake because we're narrowing the window we have to bring in replacements up front and in centre midfield. The smaller that window the more important that we get it right first time. It's ok to bring in a long term Firmino replacement who doesn't work out if we get to have another go afterwards, but if we bring in a new long term replacement for Firmino when Firmino has left/ already declining we've got an issue. We'd perhaps be able to get away with this if we were buying at the top end of the market, signing Mbappe is about as much as a banker that you can imagine. But we're probably not doing that. It is so much harder for us now because our success has raised the bar of what a 'good enough' replacement is. When we brought Mane in he was a massive upgrade (stylistically not just quality wise) on what we had simply at his Southampton level. But now we need to bring in a player who can replace the monster that Mane has become. That is very difficult to do and waiting till Mane drops off/ leaves feels risky. That is, unless we're bringing in an Mbappe but we're not going to do that. Given that doesn't it make sense to begin the process of signing long term replacements for Mane, Firmino, Henderson and Salah now rather than wait? On top of this we also have more uncertainty at the beginning of this season than we've had for ages. Are Mane and Firmino dropping off? Maybe. Is our first choice midfield now too injury prone to be relied upon? Maybe. Did our abysmal run in January-March indicate anything more than an awful injury crisis? Probably not but we've got to admit the possibility that it does.

How we go about this is another question. Do we bring in a player we expect to take Firmino's place in the first 11? Maybe, but even if we do he won't for months because that's not how Klopp works. I suspect the replacement would have to be at the very top end of talent to do that, and we're not playing at that tier by all accounts. So whether it's a potential, 'starter straight away' or 'rotation option to begin with' I'd like to see us bring in players who could, if they continue their development, be the next Firmino/Mane up top and Henderson/Gini/Thiago in midfield. IF Firmino and Mane haven't dropped off, and Henderson is robust enough to be available a decent amount this season then I don't think that is required this season but, given we need to do it at some point, I'd like to do it now because it helps to mitigate the risk of drop off and it makes the ongoing process of transition easier too.

To be clear, I'm not criticising the club here because we don't know what they're doing and they'll probably end up signing an attacker and/or a midfielder, but I am disagreeing with the posters who say we don't need to do more this summer than we have done. I'm not sure we need to, but it feels to me to be very risky not to. Both in terms of immediate success and long term squad management and evolution.
« Last Edit: August 5, 2021, 05:54:51 pm by Knight »

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #71 on: August 5, 2021, 05:51:31 pm »
Most posters seem to be looking at our squad and viewing it as fully fit and at the peak of its powers - which seems one eyed to me when assessing it.

There are some significant questions ....
The first choice midfield of 'Thiago/Fabinho/Henderson' is elite but also made up of players that don't play full seasons. Last year they were fit for about 6 weeks of the PL at the same time - you'd hope we don't have to deal with anything that bad but it also seems unreasonable to think they won't miss game time, there'll clearly be a need to rotate and then there are questions marks over the back ups
At the back we have one attacking right back and a system built on an attacking right back so this hasn't been resolved (or even discussed anymore!) ... there's also the big question of is VVD the same player, if he is we have an elite defence if not there's a bigger question
Up front Firmino and Mane need to show they're still 'in peak' after down years last season and the other question is whether 4 attackers for 3 spots is enough to have enough consistent fire power for a full league season

We do have a strong squad with a ton of talent (as we proved last season its almost impossible for us to finish outside the top 4) and any squad will have weaknesses - the question is how often our best players are getting on the pitch and in a few cases are they still as good as they were
To me we pretty clearly need to strengthen to not be as significant underdogs to win the league this season as we currently are and not doing so compounds the weaknesses we have in the medium term
Good Post, as far as I'm concerned we are getting left behind. We are going to struggle over the coming years fielding home grown players of a good enough standard, the cost of these players (of a high quality) are at odds with FSG spending.
Clubs are being bent over a barrel for average English players let alone top ones.
We have a squad that really seems to have become injury prone (our drop off from first 11 obviously exacerbates this) the least injury prone has just left.
Not sure what the answer is other than sell one of our stars (Coutinho) and re invest.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #72 on: August 5, 2021, 05:53:19 pm »
Sign Messi!

Offline Fromola

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #73 on: August 5, 2021, 05:53:48 pm »
We fucked up about 8 months of his career for nothing.

He didn't take his chance for one reason or another (fitness, training performances etc). Rhys Williams and Nat Phillips weer playing centre back in the run in.

He could have gone to Celtic and gone straight in their team but the mess they're in, it may not have been  a good move anyway.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #74 on: August 5, 2021, 05:53:57 pm »
Good Post, as far as I'm concerned we are getting left behind. We are going to struggle over the coming years fielding home grown players of a good enough standard, the cost of these players (of a high quality) are at odds with FSG spending.
Clubs are being bent over a barrel for average English players let alone top ones.

The way round that is through the academy and by snapping up the most promising young players like Elliott, Gordon, Musialowski, etc.  Get them in young enough and they count as homegrown.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline Fromola

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #75 on: August 5, 2021, 05:56:17 pm »
The way round that is through the academy and by snapping up the most promising young players like Elliott, Gordon, Musialowski, etc.  Get them in young enough and they count as homegrown.

Yeah, if we aren't going to pay the going rate for established English players (i.e. silly money) then we need to recruit extensively at the 15-18 age bracket for the best talent before the prices explode.

We also need to give Hendo what he wants.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #76 on: August 5, 2021, 05:58:13 pm »
So it actually does look like Davies was signed for a low fee simply to flip for profit.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #77 on: August 5, 2021, 06:09:53 pm »
The way round that is through the academy and by snapping up the most promising young players like Elliott, Gordon, Musialowski, etc.  Get them in young enough and they count as homegrown.
Also, give them minutes. Elliott and Jones could be great players of we invest the time in them for example. If we block their path they aren't ever going to get to that level with us

Offline FowlerLegend

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #78 on: August 5, 2021, 06:13:43 pm »
I agree with this. In the sense at least that we have a number of question marks about certain key players. We enter the season with a certain level of risk and uncertainty about what level this squad is at.

But what do we do to mitigate that? I personally think Konate is part of that mitigation for example. He's also, hopefully a key part of our long term succession planning.

I think the club is in a difficult place overall about the risk we take with this current squad in 2021/22. You can't just cast Firmino, VvD, Matip, Gomez , Mane and Henderson to the side because of questions about durability and/or retaining their peak form. I just don't see that as possible. I equally don't see it as feasible to buy lots of new depth to cover these players with players of equal or close to equal ability. Beyond the finances there just isn't enough squad space or the ability to shift players in this window.

This season is a bit of a leap of faith in certain players and their ability to stay fit and/or return to top form. It's arguably a high risk/high reward approach. Equally I don't think it's one that the club has that much choice over. They could mitigate the risk a small amount if they can move out 1 or 2 and get in 1 or 2 other players. But even in those circumstances the level of signing you are looking at isn't going to change our season's fortunes greatly if a number of the key players either continue to have durability concerns or continue on a downward trajectory in terms of form.

I can see this season as one where we could equally return to our very best or be a Top 4 team due to issue with key players. I think net summer we'll have a much better idea about where certain players are at and how quickly we may need to replace certain individuals. At this point there's still too much uncertainty so we need to trust the coaching staff and the players that they can get back to the levels they were at only 12-18 months ago.
I agree it's not easy but I don't think anyone is thinking of disregarding Hendo, Bobby, Mane or Salah this season. I mean Konate has arrived, looks class and could well sit on the bench to start with and will only be in the first 11 if he outperforms the others.
From my perspective I think if the players brought in have the potential of a Konate(in their positions) then they could have a big impacts. I see any newcomers replacing the likes of Divock, Shaq, Minamino, Naby and the Ox. They have all had plenty of chances and don't take them. What's the point of having them if they consistently don't add much when called upon.
I agree it's difficult though bringing in a forward and a midfielder if you can't shift a lot of the deadwood beforehand but eventually aren't they going to have a call to make if that happens? Spend a bit more and bring in those 2 players or carry on with what we have got knowing they don't make a difference.
What will be the different next summer? At some point we will need quite a big net spend to replace players anyway

Offline Boaty McBoatface

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - BEN THE BLADE
« Reply #79 on: August 5, 2021, 06:18:48 pm »
We fucked up about 8 months of his career for nothing.
I'm sure he knew full well what he was signing up for. Circumstances have conspired so that he didn't/couldn't take his chance.