Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General

[wige]

And just to go back to the Jota decision. Am I right in thinking the keeper can do whatever the fuck he likes if the attacker is deemed to have lost control of the ball?

It's not just keepers and when an attacker loses control. Defenders are completely free to utterly wipe someone out as long as they get their shot away.

Countless times where I've seen a defender come flying in, get nowhere near the ball, clatter a striker but because the shot was away and saved/blocked elsewhere that the challenge is ignored.

I do feel like a lot of this falls into those weird 'unwritten' rules of footy though, like events in penalty areas being judged differently from those outside, or very very early bad challenges rarely leading to reds etc etc.

[4pool]

I don’t think there’s a single Liverpool fan who wouldn’t be fuming had that penalty decision gone against us instead of for. We’ve had many more stonewall pens turned down by var.

I've read similar many times in the post match thread and in here.

And this statement is wrong. Plenty would say it was a pen. Plenty would say Alisson or Kelleher were unlucky but shouldn't have been sliding into the player---because we know the Refs/Var would give a pen against us.

[Fortneef]

If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be.

Ah well.  Hoping we get our luck in a 3/6 pointer rather than a 1 pointer.   
 

[jillcwhomever]

Jota goes to nudge the ball to his right over the keeper, he takes a step in this direction, notices he has missed the ball and tries to correct his run but in this time he is taken out by the keeper. I can see why people think he initiated the contact but he is looking to follow the flight of where he thinks he has touched the ball.

Exactly which is why to me the goalie has stopped Jota from having a second touch of the ball. He has taken out the player, he didn't get anywhere near the ball.

[El Lobo]

Hugely surprised to see the one time Dermot Gallagher calls out his mates is when it benefited us

[Hazell]

Jota goes to nudge the ball to his right over the keeper, he takes a step in this direction, notices he has missed the ball and tries to correct his run but in this time he is taken out by the keeper. I can see why people think he initiated the contact but he is looking to follow the flight of where he thinks he has touched the ball.

Having watched it back, that's definitely the case, it seems pretty obvious actually. Jota tried to move the ball to his right and didn't get the right connection but his body was still moving that way because that's where he expected the ball to go. He then realised where the ball was actually going and tried to move it back a split second before contact with the keeper. While I can understand Vieira's frustration, the more I see, the more it looks like a penalty but I'm still surprised they deemed it a clear and obvious error after Friend didn't give it initially.

I'm not surprised at the furore surrounding it, although like others have said, there wasn't as much when Burnley won a penalty at Anfield last season despite the ball being gone or Kane moving into Cash in order to win a penalty last season

[ArcticRed]

It's almost as if Klopp had a point when he commented on how everyone wants to dissect and discuss the one time we get a decision our way, while for all the decisions against us there's not a word. C*nts, the lot of them.
We should just piss them all off even more by winning the lot

[Armand9]

the simple fact is, they blather on more about a 'pen' when it is given, than when it is not given - tho they're equally important decisions imo

as we rarely get a fucking pen decision then i expect them to bang on about a controversial one we get, as opposed to one we clearly should've but didn't get, eg spurs one on jota (tho all commentators i heard regarding it said it was a ridiculous decision and clearly a pen)

[Barneylfc∗]

Was there this much crying about Abu Dhabi's penalty against Wolves, which was a far worse decision and also critical to the outcome of the game?

[Crosby Nick]

Was there this much crying about Abu Dhabi's penalty against Wolves, which was a far worse decision and also critical to the outcome of the game?

Nope. Because no one (apart from us because it’s harming us), really gives a fuck about City.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

It's almost as if Klopp had a point when he commented on how everyone wants to dissect and discuss the one time we get a decision our way, while for all the decisions against us there's not a word. C*nts, the lot of them.
We should just piss them all off even more by winning the lot

I must have missed this. What did he say?

[JRed]

Was there this much crying about Abu Dhabi's penalty against Wolves, which was a far worse decision and also critical to the outcome of the game?

Of course not. They get a free ride from almost all of the journalists, who probably have their snouts in the Abu Dhabi trough.
 

[lamonti]

Main character syndrome. Really come into play this season more than most. I think we generally need to stop giving a flying fucking what Man City employees like Micah Richards and genuine nuclear grade morons like Jermaine Jenas think.

[Barneylfc∗]

Main character syndrome. Really come into play this season more than most. I think we generally need to stop giving a flying fucking what Man City employees like Micah Richards and genuine nuclear grade morons like Jermaine Jenas think.

It's less to do with giving a fuck about what they think, and more to do with the agenda they are pushing. Whether we like it or not, there are many many morons that do consider what they think and take their opinion as fact. With this being blown out of all proportion, and the fact we rarely get anything from referees in the first place, it's reasonable to suggest we will get done over in the next couple of games as refs won't want to be seen to give us what could be perceived as a soft decision.

I've watched the replay god knows how many times, and it's still a penalty for me. Kane, Sterling, Foden or Vardy and they wouldn't even be talking about it.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

It's less to do with giving a fuck about what they think, and more to do with the agenda they are pushing. Whether we like it or not, there are many many morons that do consider what they think and take their opinion as fact. With this being blown out of all proportion, and the fact we rarely get anything from referees in the first place, it's reasonable to suggest we will get done over in the next couple of games as refs won't want to be seen to give us what could be perceived as a soft decision.

I've watched the replay god knows how many times, and it's still a penalty for me. Kane, Sterling, Foden or Vardy and they wouldn't even be talking about it.

To be fair, I think that most of the outrage is because it was a VAR overturn and not just a penalty given on the field.  If Friend points to the spot and VAR doesn't overturn it then after the game they are probably just talking about it being a soft decision but that it wasn't a clear and obvious error, it's clumsy from the keeper, etc etc.  There has always been a very high bar to clear to overturn a non-penalty decision in the past, and the fact that so many people don't think it was a penalty almost certainly means that they shouldn't have overturned the on-field decision IMO.  So I think that is what is causing such a reaction, not the fact that we were given a penalty.

But of course we have experienced a VAR overturn for the Welbeck incident at Brighton and a free-kick against Sheffield United being classed as on the line by VAR and so upgraded to a penalty even though Fabinho got the ball.  So it's about time we got a dodgy VAR overturn in our favour!

[4pool]

Mark Clattenberg, on ESPN, said Ox's goal should have never been given because Bobby interfered with play from an offside position.

Was not a pen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLIwNL1JI8M&list=PLVWqRc88TLrDg7QBk84Pc9oPnQa9hwb9d&index=3

[ArcticRed]

I must have missed this. What did he say?

Just seemed to recall a soundbite, and not in so many words, from an interview during the last couple of seasons that just seemed to stick in my mind. 
Tried searching for it without much luck. So now I'm starting to doubt it, and wonder if it was just something I imagined/dreamed   

If he didn't say it he should've, though 

[Crimson]

Mark Clattenberg, on ESPN, said Ox's goal should have never been given because Bobby interfered with play from an offside position.

Was not a pen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLIwNL1JI8M&list=PLVWqRc88TLrDg7QBk84Pc9oPnQa9hwb9d&index=3

Okay, so Palace's goal should be cancelled out as well then?

[farawayred]

Okay, so Palace's goal should be cancelled out as well then?

But that's different... 

[xbugawugax]

from tomkin times

make of it what you will. Obviously will be buried somewhere and not a peep from the pundits or media outlets as it doesn't fit their narrative and agenda

[klopptopia]

I think one of the points made last year was that Man Utd got a lot of pens from them running into the box as teams attached them and they played on the counter a lot. Whereas we often have a line of 4 then 5 or the other way round to break down so have less chance to be taken out if that makes sense. With City though who knows..

[GreatEx]

But that's different... 

Well it kind of is, because Bobby tried to head the ball, whereas Edouard was running ahead of the ball. However, you see time and time again in the PL players being called inactive despite drawing a defender - if it were up to me there'd be far more offside calls when this happens, but the reality in the PL is that players are almost never given offside unless they touch the ball or are squarely in front of the keeper. So I'd say allowing the Ox goal to stand was an error, but consistent with PL standards.

[chrissycc]

There's an interesting article looking at pens across Europe, as the title states Manchester United stands out: https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp364/en/

[farawayred]

Well it kind of is, because Bobby tried to head the ball, whereas Edouard was running ahead of the ball. However, you see time and time again in the PL players being called inactive despite drawing a defender - if it were up to me there'd be far more offside calls when this happens, but the reality in the PL is that players are almost never given offside unless they touch the ball or are squarely in front of the keeper. So I'd say allowing the Ox goal to stand was an error, but consistent with PL standards.

And that didn't give him an advantage to be in the position to receive the ball, whereas Bobby gave Ox an advantage?

Same stuff for me, both right calls. Bobby's attempted header was not interfering with play as he was so far below the ball, the keeper should have seen that. It's not like the keeper went for that ball and both he and Bobby missed; than Bobby would have been interfering with play. The keeper correctly judged the ball.

[Adeemo]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

[On Axis]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

That's crazy. Presumably the VAR ref would face some sort of action too (not that he should).

[Zeppelin]

That's crazy. Presumably the VAR ref would face some sort of action too (not that he should).

to be honest, Kevin Friend should be stood down from all matches regardless. Typical that he gets into trouble when he actually gives us something

[Adeemo]

That's crazy. Presumably the VAR ref would face some sort of action too (not that he should).

Apparently not.

[red_Mark1980]

That's crazy. Presumably the VAR ref would face some sort of action too (not that he should).

The video assistant Referee Referee?

That might seem pedantic but we need to remember VAR isn't a thing.

It's just some ref watching videos.

[El Lobo]

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to talk about tin hats etc but there's no doubt in my mind that this is purely because it was against Liverpool, and 'they' can say 'they cant complain again because of that'

[Hazell]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

Just seen this. Yeah, it might not have been given but like you, I'm a little gobsmacked this particular decision is being singled among the numerous others (as you say, the Tottenham ones in particular spring to mind) that have been made this season. It's hard not be a tiny bit paranoid about it.

[sinnermichael]

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to talk about tin hats etc but there's no doubt in my mind that this is purely because it was against Liverpool, and 'they' can say 'they cant complain again because of that'

Yep. The penalty City got against Wolves was equally bad if not worse and nobody batted an eyelid.

[Barneylfc∗]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

That's madness.

[rafathegaffa83]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

He's a shit ref, but there have been far worse calls this season that have been shrugged off

[cdav]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

Its a warning to other refs- don't dare give marginal decisions in Liverpool's favour

[rawcusk8]

Apparently Kevin Friend is being stood down from the next round of PL fixtures because of the pen he gave us against Palace. I mean what the fuck is going on? It really wasn’t that bad a decision, you could completely see why it was given, unlike so many others this season. How he’s getting punished for that one decision, yet Paul Tierney faced none for his outrageously bad performance in our match against Spurs is mind boggling.

It’s getting harder to see anything other than corruption. We used to say it’s just ineptness but this call to stand him down despite it clearly not being the worse decision this season and him being encouraged to reconsider by VAR. Next we’ll hear of Pawson and Tierney getting pay rises, something dodgy about this for sure.

[JRed]

Absolutely ridiculous. It wasVAR that told him to change his mind! As others have said, it’s only because it was against Liverpool. There have been numerous decisions that were far worse and nothing done. It’s just shit.

[the_red_pill]

to be honest, Kevin Friend should be stood down from all matches regardless. Typical that he gets into trouble when he actually gives us something

Some decisions aside... I thought Friend was a friendly?
He gave us a few during his time so far, iirc...

It’s getting harder to see anything other than corruption. We used to say it’s just ineptness but this call to stand him down despite it clearly not being the worse decision this season and him being encouraged to reconsider by VAR. Next we’ll hear of Pawson and Tierney getting pay rises, something dodgy about this for sure.

Doesn't even "even out" "anymore"..

[Funky_Gibbons]

It’s odd Friend is being made the scapegoat here when he didn’t give the penalty initially. VAR spent ages replaying the incident and told him he should look again.

Obviously he then changed his mind but he’s been put under pressure from VAR to do so.

[Schmidt]

These decisions tend to be made as a reaction to media influence, rather than following some kind of internal process. For that reason I'd still put the decision down to incompetence rather than corruption.