Author Topic: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell  (Read 386630 times)

Offline SC04OCT

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Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« on: August 15, 2016, 10:28:19 am »
Couldn't find an open thread for Alberto.

I just wanted to say, the character assassination in this press towards this guy is unbelievable. It’s truly disgusting. I mean, even retired Liverpool players are laying into this guy. I thought they’d want us to do well? Surely saying the things they saying in the press/on television are going to have a negative effect on the poor guy and destroy his confidence?

The worst part is all this shit has come off the back of what, in my opinion, wasn’t even that bad of a game! Okay, he gave away a penalty, but that can happen to anyone (and I still don’t really think it was a clear cut penalty) and after that he had a dodgy few minutes, which is understandable, but apart from that he was solid. In the second half he had Walcott so deep in his back pocket that Arsenal had to resort to bringing Chamberlain on to run at Clyne instead, but not one mention of this anywhere. He also contributed to our dominate period going forward, working well with Wijnaldum.

People are acting like it’s Moreno’s fault that we conceded 3 goals, but he wasn’t at fault for a single one of them.

Imagine what it could do for the guy's confidence if we actually all got behind him and supported him. We've seen what he's capable of, we know there's a player there (so does Klopp), so let's get behind him and let him know that the negative press can fuck off.

/rant.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 10:32:38 am »
Nah

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 10:34:13 am »
Confidence isn't the guys problem.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 10:35:31 am »
Every players needs our support.

I would like to see Moreno have some competition for his position. Weather that be with Milner or with a new left back, I think competition will bring the best out of him.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 10:35:50 am »
Couldn't find an open thread for Alberto.

I just wanted to say, the character assassination in this press towards this guy is unbelievable. It’s truly disgusting. I mean, even retired Liverpool players are laying into this guy. I thought they’d want us to do well? Surely saying the things they saying in the press/on television are going to have a negative effect on the poor guy and destroy his confidence?

The worst part is all this shit has come off the back of what, in my opinion, wasn’t even that bad of a game! Okay, he gave away a penalty, but that can happen to anyone (and I still don’t really think it was a clear cut penalty) and after that he had a dodgy few minutes, which is understandable, but apart from that he was solid. In the second half he had Walcott so deep in his back pocket that Arsenal had to resort to bringing Chamberlain on to run at Clyne instead, but not one mention of this anywhere. He also contributed to our dominate period going forward, working well with Wijnaldum.

People are acting like it’s Moreno’s fault that we conceded 3 goals, but he wasn’t at fault for a single one of them.

Imagine what it could do for the guy's confidence if we actually all got behind him and supported him. We've seen what he's capable of, we know there's a player there (so does Klopp), so let's get behind him and let him know that the negative press can fuck off.

/rant.

Nonsense, I'm all for supporting a player, but there needs to be balance. The press simply have no reason to be as biased as this. There were a few players at fault for that goal - Lallana, Moreno, Klavan - but if Moreno holds his position as Clyne did on the other side (the side of the ball!) there is a very small chance of a goal happening because Walcott does not get the space he requires.

There is no witch hunt, the press are simply reporting on a match which involved a player having an absolute nightmare of a first half following an absolute nightmare of a second half in Basel the last time we saw him in a Liverpool shirt. The only way it will stop is if he improves.

If he's still starting for us at home to Leicester in September I am sure people will begrudgingly accept his faults as it will be clear Klopp sees him as first choice going forward, but the reason fans are on edge right now is that he has no obvious competition other than someone who has played in midfield his entire career, and it's very frustrating carrying a weak link in the side when there's a transfer market & a pot of cash to fix such issues.

This to me feels like a poster who has been ripped to shreds on here for negative views now trying to earn brownie points by being over-positive.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 10:36:11 am »
Only he can iron out his stupid mistakes, that is what is so frustrating.

The guy is a liability at the moment and we need better, simple as that really.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2016, 10:36:14 am »
While I agree he was not directly at fault for any of the goals his general recklessness has shown itself to be problematic time and again. There was a time in the first half where he was covering across and headed the ball straight to an Arsenal player, he then launched into a dangerous slide tackle in the area, yeah he won the ball but you are taking risks when you leave your feet in the penalty area. Not long later he's diving into a totally unnecessary challenge in the box and giving away a spot kick. Some of his decision making is baffling.

Offline Istanbul Therapy Group

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 10:37:47 am »
He's reckless and switches off all the time. To say he wasn't at fault for the first yesterday, is a ridiculous comment.

Our last two competitive games he has made (in my view) three critical errors. No witch here hunt, but he is a liability at the moment. 
He never shows mercy, he would put 6 past your sons school team.

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2016, 10:39:07 am »
Nonsense, I'm all for supporting a player, but there needs to be balance. The press simply have no reason to be as biased as this. There were a few players at fault for that goal - Lallana, Moreno, Klavan - but if Moreno holds his position as Clyne did on the other side (the side of the ball!) there is a very small chance of a goal happening because Walcott does not get the space he requires.

There is no witch hunt, the press are simply reporting on a match which involved a player having an absolute nightmare of a first half following an absolute nightmare of a second half in Basel the last time we saw him in a Liverpool shirt. The only way it will stop is if he improves.

If he's still starting for us at home to Leicester in September I am sure people will begrudgingly accept his faults as it will be clear Klopp sees him as first choice going forward, but the reason fans are on edge right now is that he has no obvious competition other than someone who has played in midfield his entire career, and it's very frustrating carrying a weak link in the side when there's a transfer market & a pot of cash to fix such issues.

This to me feels like a poster who has been ripped to shreds on here for negative views now trying to earn brownie points by being over-positive.

Grow up, no need for comments like that.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 10:39:14 am »
We know he's prone to error. People getting on his back is going to make him worse. If you're not going to support him, at least don't get on his back inside the ground.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 10:40:44 am »
Grow up, no need for comments like that.


Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2016, 10:41:19 am »
We know he's prone to error. People getting on his back is going to make him worse. If you're not going to support him, at least don't get on his back inside the ground.

Exactly. People underestimate the psychological effect that has on a player.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 10:41:52 am »
While I agree he was not directly at fault for any of the goals his general recklessness has shown itself to be problematic time and again. There was a time in the first half where he was covering across and headed the ball straight to an Arsenal player, he then launched into a dangerous slide tackle in the area, yeah he won the ball but you are taking risks when you leave your feet in the penalty area. Not long later he's diving into a totally unnecessary challenge in the box and giving away a spot kick. Some of his decision making is baffling.
That bit of play did my head in. He launched himself recklessly towards the ball and tried to reach it with the outside of his left foot. It was such an awkward and clumsy challenge, could very easily have mistimed it and given away a pen. 

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2016, 10:44:10 am »
Exactly. People underestimate the psychological effect that has on a player.

How exactly did the fans cause him to be shite yesterday then? Was he reading twitter whilst he was stood on the field?.... In fact, with Moreno that wouldnt surprise me.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2016, 10:44:17 am »
We know he's prone to error. People getting on his back is going to make him worse. If you're not going to support him, at least don't get on his back inside the ground.

It's kind of natural for fans to get frustrated when those errors are the same ones time and time again.

Even when he has had a good run of games and confidence must be at a high he's prone to then dive into a lunging tackle, or go massively out of position.

If he wants to help himself then he needs to cut out the same mistakes he always makes which are not hard to do, I mean he just needs to stay on his bloody feet for starters. If he does that then he gets 50% less flack from fans instantly.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2016, 10:44:25 am »
Exactly. People underestimate the psychological effect that has on a player.

Overall I agree that there is no need giving food for the pundits mob but I really think that Moreno doesn't give the slightest fuck of what is been written around here or said on the telly. And rightly so.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2016, 10:44:27 am »
Alberto Moreno needs our to support us.

Fixed.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2016, 10:46:07 am »
Moreno will get more stick and harsher comments than most because people *still* dont want to say anything remotely negative about Klopp and his unwillingness to take him out of the team and/or replace him.

So Moreno will get all of the criticism he deserves for being shite, as well as some extra which should be put at Klopp's door because he keeps picking him in the face of overwhelming evidence that he's not good enough.

Hopefully Jurgen see's sense in the next two weeks because the lack of urgency in getting another player for this position is bollocks.

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2016, 10:46:47 am »
How exactly did the fans cause him to be shite yesterday then? Was he reading twitter whilst he was stood on the field?.... In fact, with Moreno that wouldnt surprise me.

He wasn't shit yesterday. Why is everyone ignoring his immaculate 2nd half?

Offline DanA

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2016, 10:46:47 am »
I don't quite understand why Klopp would want an attacking LB.  Clyne to me is perfect, conservative but when space opens up and the time is right he's willing to get forward. How does the side benefit from having Moreno break forward at the first sign of a counter attack? To my thinking he's not focal point as an out ball. That's Mane and Wijnaldum's role, he should be sitting and holding until the 2nd phase of attack.
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Offline PeterTheRed

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2016, 10:48:09 am »
Some fans will always look for a reason to abuse some of our players, even whan we beat Arsenal at the Emirates. Moreno is not perfect, but he is also not half as bad as some people claim. Klopp obviously thinks that he is good enough to play for LFC, so less abuse toward Moreno will be appreciated.

Offline Bunter

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2016, 10:48:12 am »
It was a fucking massive over-exaggeration to his performance by the press, yeah he's a clown sometimes and the build up to the pen he gave away was piss poor but the one after that where he went to bomb on and we lost possession and he got caught out was harsh blaming him for the subsequent chance they had.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2016, 10:50:15 am »
Moreno will get more stick and harsher comments than most because people *still* dont want to say anything remotely negative about Klopp and his unwillingness to take him out of the team and/or replace him.

So Moreno will get all of the criticism he deserves for being shite, as well as some extra which should be put at Klopp's door because he keeps picking him in the face of overwhelming evidence that he's not good enough.

Hopefully Jurgen see's sense in the next two weeks because the lack of urgency in getting another player for this position is bollocks.
Klopp may play Milner at LB once fit. Milner has been very good at fullback whenever I've seen him play there.

Offline Purple Red

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2016, 10:50:59 am »
I am not a negative Liverpool fan and I have supported players in the past when it seemed our entire fan base was on their backs. I was Benteke's biggest supporter last season, I backed Lucas in the darkest days, I liked Andy Carroll and I rated wee Joe before it was cool. That said, Alberto Moreno is basically indefensible. He is having an adverse impact on the team as a whole. This is his third season and he is still as rash and unpredictable as he was the moment he walked through the door. He has no defensive positional awareness, he is tactically ignorant, he cannot concentrate and he has no composure. There is no end product with his attacking either so to call that a redeeming feature is a misnomer now. He is too old to claim the inexperienced defence and his mistakes cost us goals too often. You can't watch that game yesterday and defend his performance, and yes Clyne was at fault for their second and our centre halves could have marked better for their third. These are isolated mistakes in these players' games though, they're not weekly. I agree that some of the pundits have went over the top but he invites it upon himself with his sometimes astonishing incompetence.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2016, 10:51:19 am »
I am absolutely bored to death of the Moreno stuff from everyone - our own fans, the media, ex-players, opposition fans etc...

We can absolutely do better, but signing a new LB isn't going to fix all of our defensive problems and I think people should get that into perspective.

You get the feeling people are thinking, 'Sign a LB and CM and we are sorted.' Absolute horseshit. It's not as simple as that - we defend and attack as a team, you could pluck the best LB in the world and put him in our team and we would still have similar problems defensively.

He has so much to learn and in all honesty, I don't want to see him learn at LFC because I'm fed up seeing the same mistakes time and time again.

Maybe Klopp sees something in him that could prove highly beneficial to his system and teams, and that's why he wants to stick with him, but if ever a player needed a bit of common sense it is him.

I don't remember any other LFC player, as first choice or regular, getting this much abuse before - not Lucas, not Carra, not Lovren. It's interesting that all three of those players turned it around though.

I'd happily ship him out and buy a replacement but whilst he is here he does need support. He seems a popular player and his confidence must be hammered. He should get our support whilst he's an LFC player, no doubt, but some of the abuse now is OTT. And people are probably underrating him now, due to the constant abuse and attention he is getting.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2016, 10:51:39 am »
Fuck it. I like him.
If Klopp wanted rid he would be gone. Also bear in mind we are going for cover for Moreno rather than a replacement.

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2016, 10:51:42 am »
It was a fucking massive over-exaggeration to his performance by the press, yeah he's a clown sometimes and the build up to the pen he gave away was piss poor but the one after that where he went to bomb on and we lost possession and he got caught out was harsh blaming him for the subsequent chance they had.

No one is mentioning Henderon's horrific clearance attempt in the build up to the penalty either, which irks me. Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.

Offline redmark

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2016, 10:52:20 am »
That bit of play did my head in. He launched himself recklessly towards the ball and tried to reach it with the outside of his left foot. It was such an awkward and clumsy challenge, could very easily have mistimed it and given away a pen. 

I think it's harsh to get on his back for that challenge (as Gary Neville did), because he didn't mis-time it. Ramsay (?) had mis-controlled the ball, letting it get a couple of yards away from him and that's what Moreno took advantage of.

Moreno about halfway through last season made a bit of progress - he stopped making the same mistakes over and over again (granted, he started making some new ones). He stopped diving in quite so much, he stopped the launched-backheel tackle, he even improved his positioning a touch. He had a bad EL final, and for 10-15 minutes yesterday he was making some old mistakes (though the primary mistake on the first goal, I think, was Lallana's).

He can play better. He's never going to be Maldini, but his recovery pace and agility in the challenge can be positives if he maintains concentration. A big if, though.
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Offline Purple Red

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2016, 10:53:33 am »
No one is mentioning Henderon's horrific clearance attempt in the build up to the penalty either, which irks me. Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.

Henderson can do no wrong? He gets hammered by our fans on a regular basis.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2016, 10:54:06 am »
Confirmation bias at play.

Yes, he had some terrible moments, especially first half. For their 1st, there were many wrongs committed, but only Moreno is singled out. Lallana losong the ball is the catalyst, but I don't see much criticism of hm anywhere. Klavan gets drawn to the ball and contributes to giving Walcott space. Not mentioned.

Moreno has some flaws that sometimes punish us badly. One being his propensity for going to ground. Had he stood up v Walcott there is every chance TW is pushed wide
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2016, 10:54:08 am »
Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.

That's modern football, get used to it.

Some pundits are playing the idiots on the screen for the easy buck and some are doing it here for free.
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Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2016, 10:54:31 am »
Henderson can do no wrong? He gets hammered by our fans on a regular basis.

Not for long before they get banned.

Offline Anfield89

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2016, 10:55:01 am »
No one is mentioning Henderon's horrific clearance attempt in the build up to the penalty either, which irks me. Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.


Some players don't keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again like Moreno does that's why people aren't mentioning Henderson or Lallana or Clyne for their roles in the goals yesterday. You can accept a mistake, you can't accept it happening time and time again.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2016, 10:55:31 am »
he needs taking out of the firing line. I'm sure he won't, but if Klopp continues to play him if his performances are similair to yesterday then some of the flack will be due his way as well.

doesn't help when he's the butt of Neville and Carraghers jokes as well. pretty sure I remember carra saying something along the lines of 'anything is possible with Moreno on the field'

people will latch on and the bashing on social media will continue

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2016, 10:55:46 am »
No one is mentioning Henderon's horrific clearance attempt in the build up to the penalty either, which irks me. Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.

So it took you, what, 3 posts to mention Henderson? Moreno can clearly do no wrong to you, Henderson gets abused to fuck by you. How are you any different to everyone else, who rate some players more than they do others?

Get a grip, lad.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2016, 10:56:08 am »
I think it's harsh to get on his back for that challenge (as Gary Neville did), because he didn't mis-time it. Ramsay (?) had mis-controlled the ball, letting it get a couple of yards away from him and that's what Moreno took advantage of.
Thing is, if he wasn't chasing to recover his own mistake there, I don't think he launches himself at the ball like that. It just looked like a player too eager to make up for a mistake.

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2016, 10:56:41 am »
So it took you, what, 3 posts to mention Henderson? Moreno can clearly do no wrong to you, Henderson gets abused to fuck by you. How are you any different to everyone else, who rate some players more than they do others?

Get a grip, lad.

No he doesn't. I've said plenty of positive things about him. Literally the only negative I've ever said of him is that he's not as good with the ball at his feet as some of our other players.

Hardly the same as the abuse Moreno gets. No need for the hyperbole.

Back on topic:

I think Moreno will shut a lot of people up this season.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2016, 10:56:50 am »
No doubt he works hard and no doubt he respects the club and seems like a good guy, however he's simply just not good enough for us. He's quite clearly a failed winger, and in Spain it's not a hard transition to go from playing LW to LB as long as you're pacey and good on the ball. This league is too quick and physical, if he's out of position he's going to get caught out.

I'm a big believer in full-backs being defenders first and attackers second, I like how Clyne is a solid defender, but can also chip in every now and again in attack, much like yesterday.

Best thing for Moreno is to return to La Liga, he'd probably be good there.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2016, 10:57:58 am »
Some players can do no wrong, others get abused to fuck.
When players regularly make a lot of mistakes, they get called out for it. Lovren 14/15 for example. He stopped making these mistakes and now no one is moaning about him. Stop being so precious.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2016, 11:00:09 am »
Everything down Clyne's right second half. Moreno was solid after the break. Clyne didn't exactly cover himself in glory for the 2nd goal and the cheap freekick which resulted in the third goal but isn't receiving a fraction of the fume from fans that Moreno is.