Author Topic: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell  (Read 386634 times)

Offline SC04OCT

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #200 on: August 15, 2016, 04:01:32 pm »
Klopp isn't subtle when it comes to being pissed off with what a player is doing. He showed no signs of being pissed at Moreno aka Moreno was doing exactly what was asked of him.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #201 on: August 15, 2016, 04:04:45 pm »
Unless, of course, according to Klopp, he isn't being caught out of position repeatedly. It may just be that every time an expert like Carra tells us Moreno was out of position, he was in fact exactly in the position Klopp wanted him to be in. Central defenders like Carra want full backs to never go forward. Managers like Klopp think differently. Moreno was not out of position for the first goal, if he had stayed behind, and Lallana hadn't lost the ball, we would have been a man short going forward, and Moreno would truly have been out of position.
I think you've got to pick.your spots. The drawback of him not going forward to helpnout a counter attack is we don't make full use of the apace Arsenal left behind for a counter. The drawback of doing ejat he did was we conceded.

It's not always a good idea to think of attack first as a fullback
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Offline BoRed

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #202 on: August 15, 2016, 04:06:35 pm »
I think you've got to pick.your spots. The drawback of him not going forward to helpnout a counter attack is we don't make full use of the apace Arsenal left behind for a counter. The drawback of doing ejat he did was we conceded.

It's not always a good idea to think of attack first as a fullback

That may well be the case, but that kind of criticism should be directed at Klopp and not Moreno.

Offline Raaphael

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #203 on: August 15, 2016, 04:22:04 pm »
There comes a point though whenever he steps onto the pitch we might lose points because of him. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Rash challenges , getting caught way out of position. He's not shown that he's actually learning what's wrong. I can't imagine Klopp wants a leftback caught out of position repeatedly.

Still, as long as he plays, what does it help slagging him off? The penalty yesterday was a mistake. Not so sure he can be blamed too much for the first goal though.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 04:24:43 pm by Raaphael »

Offline Chakan

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #204 on: August 15, 2016, 04:25:03 pm »
Still, as long as he plays, what does it help slagging him off?

Depends what you mean by slagging him off? Calling him every name in the book no, pointing out his obvious faults that he keeps repeating is fair game, wanting him replaced is fair as well.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #205 on: August 15, 2016, 04:25:32 pm »
The problem with Moreno is that there have been zero signs of any progress or improvement since he came here. Literally from his first game at man City onwards he's been error prone and the weak link. A week and a half after that he showed us his attacking promise with that fantastic goal at spurs and we all hoped that he would continue to impress in that area while also cutting out the mistakes. Unfortunately he's done neither of those things.

Klopp may be asking him to get into those positions, that much we don't really know. What we can be sure of is that Klopp doesn't ask him to go in with stupid lunges and mistakes that cost us points. And finals.

There have been real signs of our defence getting better, our keeper has been upgraded, but we will continue to throw goals and points away as long as we are carrying him. We badly need an upgrade.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #206 on: August 15, 2016, 04:31:49 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.

We're still conceding too many goals in this manner, Moreno is still caught up the pitch too often regardless of whether its the player being poor and out of position or the manager telling him to be there and putting him out of position.

If something such as this is costing you goals and granting the opposition chances as much as this seems to be, then you surely you're free to criticise it regardless of the origin?

If its Moreno then he's consistently putting himself in to terrible defensive positions, if its Klopp then he's consistently telling him to be in terrible defensive positions.

Offline Number 7

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #207 on: August 15, 2016, 04:34:22 pm »
Does anyone think it's Klopp's plan to have Milner start as LB and Moreno as back-up? Moreno's deficiencies seem less detrimental if the idea is to send Moreno on late in games to chase a goal or play against lower opposition in cups.

I believe so, yes. At least, I think we were going to start the season that way anyway. Milner's injury meant Moreno had to start yesterday.

Klopp isn't going to buy a LB just for the sake of buying one. It has to be the right one. Either it's going to be someone better than Moreno, or someone younger who could have challenged Moreno. For whatever reason, we haven't been able to find one that fits the team. Milner is used to Klopp's system now so it's not like a new signing who has to be ramped up to the style of play Klopp requires. He's doesn't have the pace that Moreno does but he's reliable and not rash.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #208 on: August 15, 2016, 04:34:33 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.

We're still conceding too many goals in this manner, Moreno is still caught up the pitch too often regardless of whether its the player being poor and out of position or the manager telling him to be there and putting him out of position.

If something such as this is costing you goals and granting the opposition chances as much as this seems to be, then you surely you're free to criticise it regardless of the origin?

If its Moreno then he's consistently putting himself in to terrible defensive positions, if its Klopp then he's consistently telling him to be in terrible defensive positions.
Do you think Klopp could do with a defensive coach?  :)
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #209 on: August 15, 2016, 04:36:05 pm »
Do you think Klopp could do with a defensive coach?  :)

Klopp is just Buvac's stooge, we all know that. Just needs to be brought in to line by the big man.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #210 on: August 15, 2016, 04:46:25 pm »
It was a fucking massive over-exaggeration to his performance by the press, yeah he's a clown sometimes and the build up to the pen he gave away was piss poor but the one after that where he went to bomb on and we lost possession and he got caught out was harsh blaming him for the subsequent chance they had.

All true - fair points, well made.


It's kind of natural for fans to get frustrated when those errors are the same ones time and time again.

Even when he has had a good run of games and confidence must be at a high he's prone to then dive into a lunging tackle, or go massively out of position.

If he wants to help himself then he needs to cut out the same mistakes he always makes which are not hard to do, I mean he just needs to stay on his bloody feet for starters. If he does that then he gets 50% less flack from fans instantly.

All true - fair points, well made.


While I agree he was not directly at fault for any of the goals his general recklessness has shown itself to be problematic time and again. There was a time in the first half where he was covering across and headed the ball straight to an Arsenal player, he then launched into a dangerous slide tackle in the area, yeah he won the ball but you are taking risks when you leave your feet in the penalty area. Not long later he's diving into a totally unnecessary challenge in the box and giving away a spot kick. Some of his decision making is baffling.

All true - fair points, well made.

Some fans will always look for a reason to abuse some of our players, even when we beat fucking Arsenal at the Emirates on the opening game of the season. Moreno is not perfect, but he is also not half as bad as some people claim. Klopp obviously thinks that he is good enough to play for LFC.

All true - fair points, well made.

It's also worth mentioning that Moreno has saved our bacon several times with surging runs back to execute a last ditch sliding tackle.

100% true - fair point, well made - and to be even fairer some of the runs back to make those challenges were faster than anything I've ever seen from a Red's full back.

He's got bags of ability, but not much between the ears.  Most defenders become a lot more conservative and cunning in the penalty area... Moreno seems to be the opposite.  It's like a bull seeing red.  All thought goes out the window and he charges towards the ball with little regard to the consequences.

All true - fair points, well made.

But it's not just yesterday. He has a history of poor judgement and rash tackles. Two years worth of history.

I keep on hoping he'll turn the proverbial corner but hasn't happened.

All true - fair points, well made.

Unless, of course, according to Klopp, he isn't being caught out of position repeatedly. It may just be that every time an expert like Carra tells us Moreno was out of position, he was in fact exactly in the position Klopp wanted him to be in. Central defenders like Carra want full backs to never go forward. Managers like Klopp think differently. Moreno was not out of position for the first goal, if he had stayed behind, and Lallana hadn't lost the ball, we would have been a man short going forward, and Moreno would truly have been out of position.

Highlighted bit - very possibly true - so fair points, well made.

Underlined bit - most definitely true - fair point, well made

Klopp plays with asymmetrical full backs with one (Moreno) tending to be higher than the other to make pressing traps (off the ball) or he will use his explosiveness to get forward in the transitions once the ball is won back from an already higher starting point. Moreno has the pace and stamina to recover.

Hector would probably be a bad fit to do this. Therefore it would be a transfer that doesn´t suit that tactical plan he is trying to implement. Rodriguez also isn´t explosive. Someone like Bertrand would work though.

The important thing to note is - whoever we play there will always appear as our weak link at full back. We encourage sides to attack that flank and then use it to win the ball back. The problems we are having at the moment is that playing this way isn´t simple to learn or easy to implement. Also, if we give the ball away in the transition phase, it makes us very vulnerable. In these instances people think Moreno is running about like a headless chicken always out of position - Klopp looks at it as the team letting him down by giving the ball away at the wrong time when Moreno has already pushed forward as he was instructed to do so.

At the moment Moreno isn´t being helped by us being not spatially compact enough and by us shooting ourselves in the foot sometimes in transitions. That doesn´t mean he is blameless. Far from it. Just that perhaps Klopp believes anybody in that situation would struggle and wants Moreno to have a chance in the role when these other tactical problems are solved giving him a fair crack at the role.

If you genuinely believe Moreno is a bad footballer, you are an idiot. There is no getting away from that. One of the elite managers in the game backs him. Perhaps we should all do so too until that situation changes?
 

All true - fair points superbly conveyed.





So there we have it - Moreno...a fucking huge enigma wrapped up in a mystery...and apparently loved by Kloppie like a son, judging by the particularly extra warm post match hugs.


So do we actually need a replacement left back?


Fucked if I know...


...but one thing's for sure there's certainly no single definitive answer to the question to be found in this thread. Nor, I doubt, in Kloppie's head.




 :)


« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 04:50:19 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #211 on: August 15, 2016, 04:50:12 pm »
Of course he needs our support but that in no way excuses the fact that he is good for an error consistently. If we happen to find ourselves in a final or two again this season and he makes an error then what will that result in?

He isnt good enough. He doesnt do enough in an attacking sense to seem worth it and whilst even Clyne has made mistakes, its nowhere as constant as Moreno.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #212 on: August 15, 2016, 04:52:11 pm »
All true - fair points, well made.


All true - fair points, well made.


All true - fair points, well made.

All true - fair points, well made.

100% true - fair point, well made - and to be even fairer some of the runs back to make those challenges were faster than anything I've ever seen from a Red's full back.

All true - fair points, well made.

All true - fair points, well made.

Highlighted bit - very possibly true - so fair points, well made.

Underlined bit - most definitely true - fair point, well made

All true - fair points superbly conveyed.





So there we have it - Moreno...a fucking huge enigma wrapped up in a mystery...and apparently loved by Kloppie like a son, judging by the particularly extra warm post match hugs.


So do we actually need a replacement left back?


Fucked if I know...


...but one thing's for sure there's certainly no single definitive answer to the question to be found in this thread. Nor, I doubt, in Kloppie's head.




 :)
Fair points, well made, mate
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Offline Easy

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #213 on: August 15, 2016, 04:58:48 pm »
That may well be the case, but that kind of criticism should be directed at Klopp and not Moreno.
Perhaps people feel safer criticising a player than their favourite manager? Easier target perhaps?

Offline Medellin

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #214 on: August 15, 2016, 04:59:10 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.

We're still conceding too many goals in this manner, Moreno is still caught up the pitch too often regardless of whether its the player being poor and out of position or the manager telling him to be there and putting him out of position.

If something such as this is costing you goals and granting the opposition chances as much as this seems to be, then you surely you're free to criticise it regardless of the origin?

If its Moreno then he's consistently putting himself in to terrible defensive positions, if its Klopp then he's consistently telling him to be in terrible defensive positions.

Absolutely!

The penalty awarded affected Moreno a lot,there were a few balls he played straight into touch when not under much duress & that wasn't normal.
It's crazy,it's not his technical ability that fans have a beef with..it's the judgement calls in that split second where he has a habit of making the wrong call.
Klopp obviously thinks Moreno's errors can be rectified with training..and more training so we'll have to accept it and get behind the lad when selected.
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Offline Al 666

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #215 on: August 15, 2016, 04:59:18 pm »
Klopp isn't subtle when it comes to being pissed off with what a player is doing. He showed no signs of being pissed at Moreno aka Moreno was doing exactly what was asked of him.

Or maybe it is just a case of Klopp realising that Moreno isn't the brightest and plays on instinct. Coaches tend to get pissed off when players are lazy or when tactically astute players make stupid mistakes. For me Moreno doesn't fall into either of those categories. He is just a player with little game intelligence inevitably making the kind of stupid choices players with little intelligence make.

For me Klopp is a realist and probably realises that if a proven player with Moreno's physical abilities plus good intelligence came on the market then we wouldn't be able to sign him. Personally that is why I think he is prepared to make do with Moreno until he can mould a player of Chilwell's age into his ideal left back.

The reality is that quality left backs aren't very common because outlandishly athletic full backs rarely learn the harsh lessons that develop exceptional positional play because their pace usually gets them out of trouble. Combine that with the paucity of left footed players and for me we are more likely to create a fantastic left back than be able to buy a ready made one.

The other possibility for me would be to play Clyne or another solid player at full back and try Markovic on the right as the defensive line breaking full back.
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Offline Samie

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #216 on: August 15, 2016, 05:00:18 pm »
He needs never to play Left Back. That's what he needs.

Offline TheTeflonJohn

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #217 on: August 15, 2016, 05:01:32 pm »
Fair points, well made Timbo..........


Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #218 on: August 15, 2016, 05:02:23 pm »
He needs never to play Left Back. That's what he needs.

He should be left back. On the bench.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #219 on: August 15, 2016, 05:06:34 pm »
Wonder if we could get an elder statesmen LB figure in on-loan and see if he can help him through these times and teach him a bit about common-sense defending.

I still wholeheartedly believe their is a very decent player in there; just needs a bit of help and support. 
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Offline groove

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #220 on: August 15, 2016, 05:08:13 pm »
I wish Moreno would stay back when we concede a goal and only go forward when we end up creating a chance.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #221 on: August 15, 2016, 05:08:19 pm »
He should be left back. On the bench.
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Offline Bergersleftpeg

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #222 on: August 15, 2016, 05:08:20 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.


And it is not as if Moreno was rock-solid under Rodgers either. It is also perfectly possible that both Klopp and Rodgers both got it wrong AND Moreno is not particularly good positionally.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #223 on: August 15, 2016, 05:10:30 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.

We're still conceding too many goals in this manner, Moreno is still caught up the pitch too often regardless of whether its the player being poor and out of position or the manager telling him to be there and putting him out of position.

If something such as this is costing you goals and granting the opposition chances as much as this seems to be, then you surely you're free to criticise it regardless of the origin?

If its Moreno then he's consistently putting himself in to terrible defensive positions, if its Klopp then he's consistently telling him to be in terrible defensive positions.

As Babuyagu has posited far more eloquently than me, it does seem to be a tactic of Klopp's rather than Moreno being mentally deficient. Us regaining possession seems to be the trigger for him to start haring up the pitch and his starting position seems to be higher up than we'd normally come to expect from a full back.

Maybe we need to reassess what we expect a fullback to do, or at least the more attacking one in the system Klopp favours? I mean yeah, he's nominally a leftback, but tends to become more of an auxiliary wide forward when we have possession and he becomes a potential outlet high on the left. This allows Coutinho to come inside and do his thing, which benefits us as he's probably our most creative player and sees more of the ball in central positions.

Personally I agree with the original post in the thread. I think he needs our support as there seems to be the beginnings of a witch hunt against him, with rumblings from both the media and our fans and it's never nice when that happens to anyone, even Hodgson (up to a point...). He's not going to get any better with everyone getting on his back at every opportunity.

With all that said, there's a lot of things that I wish Moreno would do differently (tackle better, think a bit more, learn to use his right foot, get a haircut) but Klopp seems fairly content with him so hopefully we get behind the lad and he improves and becomes our very own Marcelo. It doesn't seem likely at the minute, but you never can tell.

Alternatively we could just lynch him.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #224 on: August 15, 2016, 05:15:58 pm »
If Klopp didn't want him bombing on every time, it would've been sorted out by now. Look at his quotes, he seems more bothered about the turnover in possession rather than defensive positions. The problem with Moreno is the stupid shit he does when he is in position to defend.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #225 on: August 15, 2016, 05:21:47 pm »
If Clyne makes the same run that Moreno makes on the opposite side then Lallana has a simple get out ball and we are less likely to lose possession. But, of course, if he does lose possession then we are more likely to concede.

Now I admit I might be stretching here and it's definitely not a criticism of Cyne, of course. I'm just trying to make a point about how fluid and quick the decision making is in football and there are so many factors and possible outcomes that situations like this can't be boiled down to it ever being just one player's fault. It's not nearly as simple as that.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #226 on: August 15, 2016, 05:29:33 pm »
Can I go ahead and start the Mignolet needs our support thread?

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #227 on: August 15, 2016, 05:40:24 pm »
He's got a head like a 50 pence.

He has a tendency to jump in both feet ( was extremely lucky not to catch Ramsey, and that situation came from a bad header from him heading it across field .

He has very little positional awareness ( look at Arsenals 3rd goal from the free kick, he is stood 2 yards in front of the line of defenders in the middle of the pen area semi circle ? )

He is our most consistent, inconsistent player when selected.

And he has trouble defending in every aspect of defending ?

He needs dropping at the very least, and we need to get back up in for Milner before the end of the window.

I don't know how anyone can defend him right now. ( and it's not just because of one bad game, its a fair few now).








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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #228 on: August 15, 2016, 05:43:53 pm »
Taking more of a harsh position here.

First Moreno fuck-up at Man City after a nearly flawless first half defensively (2013/14?) --- Jovetic back doors him ---> was important time in the game - and the differential went from one point for LFC to losing three.  Someone show where/what he is learning.. Little progress.

Rodgers played him many a time and ended up going with Gomez --- now for all of Rodgers bluster, tiki talk, I felt he got this one right.  With his job on the line, Moreno was on the bench until injuries arose.  There were countless errors in the Champions League season --- but as Timbo correctly points out by far our biggest issue was not have an attacking presence - which included injuries.

Last year, I started to count (because of conversations like this one) how many times Moreno contributed to a major league fuck up leading to a goal.  It was way over 10.  Some of the more memorable ones include not getting out to block service on a cross against Dortmund.  Or better yet, not getting the front of Ramirez as he ran through our box leading to 1-0 deficit at the Bridge. 

And really I have yet to get started with the number of two-footed tackles and recklessness (inevitably which will lead to red cards), stupidity of when/how to get forward (like continental drift forward) exposing our left side to a counter.

While there are at least 10 more instances I believe I have documented previously, I am not inclined to give A Moreno the benefit of the doubt ---   First, the Villarreal game at their place was a MONUMENTAL fuckup....  All we needed was a draw and he is bursting forward in the last few minutes as if he is an attacking player with skill.  He is neither a talented an attacker nor is adept at picking out the last pass ---->  speed makes up for a lot I suppose.

And the piece de resistance was the 2nd half of the Europa Cup final --- against his former team nonetheless.  While this is a team game and many factors play into why one player gets exposed and other players do not, I was already convinced before we kicked off at Arsenal that Moreno is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  The sample size of games, and his inability to learn from his mistakes means we are all susceptible to the how many more fuck ups is it going to take to get to the end of this lollypop.

Yesterday was more of the same.  Some try to polish up this as a mechanism of hope, and normally I enjoy this function here at RAWK because we all sure as hell could use a bit more of it.

However, the biggest thing that kills teams, as I have said before, is soft goals.  It deflated us in Europa Cup final, and towards the end of a tiring season last year during our finish.  It is a killer to team chemistry, and defensive confidence which thrives on predictability/repetition.   

We cannot afford to play Moreno in meaningful games.  Reclamation projects should be done at clubs who are not Liverpool.  Imagine having a steady defensive minded left back, who does not get beat, gets forward occasionally and could help us on set plays?   That is the type of player I want to see, not this Faux-offensive left footed maniac who is struggling with little man's disease. 

Now, I defer to Klopp, who probably see Moreno as a back-up.  But we cannot compete for the top 4 with Moreno starting at left back.  If this is the case, I will have a burst vein in forehead every weekend and we'll have to score 4 goals every fucking week.

Okay.... I'm listening to contrary opinions --- does not mean I will shift though. Pretty firm on this.
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Offline Romford_Red

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #229 on: August 15, 2016, 05:44:24 pm »
The "maybe Klopp wants him 'out of position'" defence is such a straw man anyway, all it does is move the error from Moreno on to Klopp. It doesnt remove the error.

It's not really a straw man though is it. The definition of a straw man is using reasoning that seems to refute an argument, when it is actually refuting a different argument, generally one that was not made.
If the debate here is about Moreno's decisions where positioning is concerned and it actually is due to where Klopp wants him, then it is not a straw man at all, unless you are fine with Moreno carrying the can for doing what he is told to do.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 06:46:33 pm by Romford_Red »

Offline Djozer

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #230 on: August 15, 2016, 05:45:11 pm »
He's got a head like a 50 pence.

He has a tendency to jump in both feet ( was extremely lucky not to catch Ramsey, and that situation came from a bad header from him heading it across field .

He has very little positional awareness ( look at Arsenals 3rd goal from the free kick, he is stood 2 yards in front of the line of defenders in the middle of the pen area semi circle ? )

He is our most consistent, inconsistent player when selected.

And he has trouble defending in every aspect of defending ?

He needs dropping at the very least, and we need to get back up in for Milner before the end of the window.

I don't know how anyone can defend him right now. ( and it's not just because of one bad game, its a fair few now).

Yeah, it's sick isn't it? We have some truly cretinous and despicable supporters. I feel ashamed to count myself amongst their number.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #231 on: August 15, 2016, 05:55:35 pm »
Yeah, it's sick isn't it? We have some truly cretinous and despicable supporters. I feel ashamed to count myself amongst their number.

Why? Because Moreno isn't good enough for where we want to be, cost us a penalty and a goal yesterday, and has repeatedly made the same mistakes over and over again with fans calling him out on it?

Sickening indeed.

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #232 on: August 15, 2016, 05:59:22 pm »
The only thing left as to why we haven't bought a left back is we simply can't afford a good one. We have a net spend of £24m which is huge for fsg
I'd say we wanted Chillwell and that's it. We've got the money I'm sure of it and I think many would agree.

Klopp not looking to buy a leftback(there's still half a month though..) after a bit of a lengthy pursuit, tells me it was Chillwell or bust. He doesn't want any other for now.
Maybe, maybe.. if push comes to shove, we'll get a stop-gap(like an older player) but that's just my opinion. I mean it looks like we're not interested in any leftbacks for now.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 06:01:03 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #233 on: August 15, 2016, 06:03:41 pm »
Ahh, game one, and we already have our whipping boy for the season.   ::)

No doubt the arl arses in the main stand will not be backward in telling him, either.



Must do his confidence the world of good.    ???



Whether you rate him or not, turning on your own is just plain ugly.   

Offline redjed1

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #234 on: August 15, 2016, 06:05:34 pm »
So it's either Moreno losing track of where he should be, or Klopp telling him to get forward.

One solution is for Moreno to wear an electronic tag so Klopp, or his back room team, can press a switch, zapping Moreno and telling him to get back. If no zap, then Moreno is doing what Klopp wants. Love to see a zapping.

One way or another we need to know if Moreno is following his boss' orders.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #235 on: August 15, 2016, 06:08:03 pm »
Ahh, game one, and we already have our whipping boy for the season.   ::)

No doubt the arl arses in the main stand will not be backward in telling him, either.



Must do his confidence the world of good.    ???



Whether you rate him or not, turning on your own is just plain ugly.   

Actually, I started in about this time last year with him.  And while I agree, the nature of the role of supporters is to find ways to lift up the team, I do think some sober, honest and direct feedback can be seen as some tough needed love --- for a team who could be very very special.

I take no personal glee in this and I am open to being wrong, except the sample size of complete and utterly unneeded fuck-ups puts those who follow issues like these in the uncomfortable position of having to call out the bull shit....

Ugly is better than insanity....  and we know trying the same thing over and over hoping for different results leads to it... 

Make us Dream... not Make us Scream! 
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #236 on: August 15, 2016, 06:11:20 pm »


One way or another we need to know if Moreno is following his boss' orders.

I doubt scything the opposition down and giving away a penalty or heading to them to give them an almost one on one with your keeper, are the orders.

Klopp made the right move yesterday in keeping him on, taking him off would of probably destroyed him, however - things have to change for Alberto and ultimately it is only him that can do that.  Back him - of course, berate him - some will, but don't blame him for all the ills of Liverpools poor football. 
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Offline Djozer

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #237 on: August 15, 2016, 06:12:15 pm »
Why? Because Moreno isn't good enough for where we want to be, cost us a penalty and a goal yesterday, and has repeatedly made the same mistakes over and over again with fans calling him out on it?

Sickening indeed.

I was actually (sarcastically) suggesting it was sick to defend Moreno, which I had previously been doing. I don't seem to be able to do humour very well, and for that all I can do is apologise.

I don't think either position is "sickening". The point I was trying to make is that the hyperbole that surrounds football and footballers gets a bit ridiculous at times, and it always makes me a bit sad when players get scapegoated to the extent that seems to be happening now.

Personally, I'd prefer we brought another leftback in who had more to his defensive game, but am happy to wait and see if Klopp thinks he can work with Moreno. I think support is better than denigration, but if it makes you feel better to point out his flaws (he certainly does have them) than go right ahead.




Offline Chakan

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #238 on: August 15, 2016, 06:14:15 pm »
The problem is his head goes and he does just baffling things. I think about 10 minutes before the pen, he ran across Klavan for a header that went backwards to an Arsenal player on the box and had to scramble back to make the tackle and give away a corner. It's stuff like that that just gets repeated most games he's in. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.

Offline King Klopp.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #239 on: August 15, 2016, 06:15:23 pm »
Dropped last season for an 18 year old CB from the Championship. Going to be dropped this year for a 31 year old central midfielder.

It's almost amusing that we haven't signed a left back. How bad does he need to be? Putting in farcical performances in multiple cup finals not enough?

The fact that some are trying to paint him as a poor little lad being made out as some sort of scapegoat or 'whipping boy' is equally funny.

Fans on the internet/in the stands have been pretty much united in saying this lad is an absolute liability and will cost us time and again, just like he did in not one but two finals last season. Yesterday, after 45 minutes of a new season, he'd already given away a ridiculous penalty and been caught mentally out of position multiple times, and not just for the goal.

We need a new left back, because the one we currently have is at the point of essentially costing us a goal a game.
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