Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[penga]

Worst thing about this is there is a real possibility Mignolet has been instructed to go long because Klopp knows how terrible he is with the ball at his feet. It's a horrible compromise on Klopp's part because I can never imagine him condoning so much hoofing while at the same time building a front 6 that includes players like Gini, Lallana, Mane, Coutinho, Firmino - all of which are desperately unequipped to play the way we have recently. So yeah it's not Mignolet's fault but I wonder if we had Reina as our keeper for example would we have not insisted on passing out from the back much more than we did.

He's not as bad with the ball at his feet as you are making out though, well at least this season anyway. You seemed to ignore the rest of my post where I highlighted he had one of the highest pass completion rates out of all GKs in the league and shorter passing before he was instructed to go long. He seemed a lot more confident (a couple of Cruyff turns even) and didn't make any big mistakes this season controlling the ball or passing the ball unlike Karius for example who did it almost once every game - and for sure he did do 1st time short passes a lot I watched for them because people tried to say he couldn't do it. I've also seen him play higher and more outside the box this season.  But Migs isn't greatly accurate at the long punts or chips, nor can he do Reina style drop volleys from what I watched.

We have differing opinions on it but my view is it's more the receivers in front of him not being comfortable receiving especially after the team lost some confidence recently with poor results plus Klopp having a tactical shift to try something different during our run of poor form. In the most recent game the CBs and CDM on many occasions didn't even bother showing for the ball when there were markers near them and just decided to turn away and jog up the field ready for the punt. So to re-iterate I believe if we want to build from the back with short passing, Migs can actually do it because I have seen it in quite a few games this season. Just don't expect him to launch quick counter-attacks like Pepe.

[diegoLFC7]

One thing thats unsettling about Klopp is his stubborn attitude when it comes to spending money. If reports are true he broke talks with Brandt, because the issue was money and he only wants players who believe in his LFC project. If thats the case then we will never get anywhere, all players are in it for the money especially the good ones. Its inexcusable to have three transfer windows under your belt, and have a bench with the likes of Woodburn, Trent, and Harry Wilson who combined have less than 2 Premier League starts. We will be left behind if we keep playing this haggling game with players that need to come here. We missed out on some great targets recently and it cant continue.

[Phil M]

One thing thats unsettling about Klopp is his stubborn attitude when it comes to spending money. If reports are true he broke talks with Brandt, because the issue was money and he only wants players who believe in his LFC project. If thats the case then we will never get anywhere, all players are in it for the money especially the good ones. Its inexcusable to have three transfer windows under your belt, and have a bench with the likes of Woodburn, Trent, and Harry Wilson who combined have less than 2 Premier League starts. We will be left behind if we keep playing this haggling game with players that need to come here. We missed out on some great targets recently and it cant continue.

Which reports are these?

[Agent99]

One thing thats unsettling about Klopp is his stubborn attitude when it comes to spending money. If reports are true he broke talks with Brandt, because the issue was money and he only wants players who believe in his LFC project. If thats the case then we will never get anywhere, all players are in it for the money especially the good ones. Its inexcusable to have three transfer windows under your belt, and have a bench with the likes of Woodburn, Trent, and Harry Wilson who combined have less than 2 Premier League starts. We will be left behind if we keep playing this haggling game with players that need to come here. We missed out on some great targets recently and it cant continue.

You mean Draxler?

[Dave D]

Which reports are these?

There are no reports. It's a combination of idiots and people trying to undermine the manager trying to pass it off as facts. The latter being far more sinister.

We actually have fans out there trying to push a ridiculous and false rumour that our manager pulls out of deals because he believes a player is priced too high, or a bizarre notion that he want's to do it on the cheap.

The facts, from the recent accounts which are only a few days old, is that there was barely any money to buy players in his first transfer window. It's possible that this season he had to sell to buy and balance the books due to the massive increase in wages which may not have been football related.

Anyone that suggests Jürgen, or any manager, would turn down players they want if the money is there, are talking out of their arse.

[Redcap]

He's not as bad with the ball at his feet as you are making out though, well at least this season anyway. You seemed to ignore the rest of my post where I highlighted he had one of the highest pass completion rates out of all GKs in the league and shorter passing before he was instructed to go long. He seemed a lot more confident (a couple of Cruyff turns even) and didn't make any big mistakes this season controlling the ball or passing the ball unlike Karius for example who did it almost once every game - and for sure he did do 1st time short passes a lot I watched for them because people tried to say he couldn't do it. I've also seen him play higher and more outside the box this season.  But Migs isn't greatly accurate at the long punts or chips, nor can he do Reina style drop volleys from what I watched.

We have differing opinions on it but my view is it's more the receivers in front of him not being comfortable receiving especially after the team lost some confidence recently with poor results plus Klopp having a tactical shift to try something different during our run of poor form. In the most recent game the CBs and CDM on many occasions didn't even bother showing for the ball when there were markers near them and just decided to turn away and jog up the field ready for the punt. So to re-iterate I believe if we want to build from the back with short passing, Migs can actually do it because I have seen it in quite a few games this season. Just don't expect him to launch quick counter-attacks like Pepe.

I agree. I don't think Mignolet's kicking got much to do with our struggles. There are times when I think we do benefit from being a bit more direct in our play. At the very minimum, it throws our opponents off their plan. I'm certain that we had a plan to bypass their midfield bank against Burnley, and it worked. It wasn't pretty, but it got our midfielders up the pitch and gave us a foothold in their half, where we had struggled to carve out much real estate in the first half.

It was somewhat disconcerting to see us shuffling the ball back and forth in our half and struggling to break down a middle block in the first half though. I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion our fullbacks were instructed not to go forward as much as they do normally. This, along with Coutinho having a mare in terms of movement, left us bereft of options going forward.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

He's not as bad with the ball at his feet as you are making out though, well at least this season anyway. You seemed to ignore the rest of my post where I highlighted he had one of the highest pass completion rates out of all GKs in the league and shorter passing before he was instructed to go long. He seemed a lot more confident (a couple of Cruyff turns even) and didn't make any big mistakes this season controlling the ball or passing the ball unlike Karius for example who did it almost once every game - and for sure he did do 1st time short passes a lot I watched for them because people tried to say he couldn't do it. I've also seen him play higher and more outside the box this season.  But Migs isn't greatly accurate at the long punts or chips, nor can he do Reina style drop volleys from what I watched.

We have differing opinions on it but my view is it's more the receivers in front of him not being comfortable receiving especially after the team lost some confidence recently with poor results plus Klopp having a tactical shift to try something different during our run of poor form. In the most recent game the CBs and CDM on many occasions didn't even bother showing for the ball when there were markers near them and just decided to turn away and jog up the field ready for the punt. So to re-iterate I believe if we want to build from the back with short passing, Migs can actually do it because I have seen it in quite a few games this season. Just don't expect him to launch quick counter-attacks like Pepe.

Spot on.

[Phil M]

There are no reports. It's a combination of idiots and people trying to undermine the manager trying to pass it off as facts.

Correct Dave, I was just highlighting this shite from the above poster who is prone to posting such unsubstantiated bollocks and running away.

[Digger2God]

By the way where is the Man City thread? This is the biggest game of the year   

Let's be havin' ya!

[JackWard33]

Joyce reporting we're in the market for 2 wide players this summer

Interesting because from a tactical point of view that almost certainly means Coutinho in midfield more next season

[cdav]

Joyce reporting we're in the market for 2 wide players this summer

Interesting because from a tactical point of view that almost certainly means Coutinho in midfield more next season

I wonder if that is two proper wide players or one wide player and someone who can play both wide and as a center forward?

It will be interesting how this changes our approach, but it should hopefully create some nice problems for Klopp in terms of selection and some headaches for opposition managers in how to set up against us.

[JackWard33]

I wonder if that is two proper wide players or one wide player and someone who can play both wide and as a center forward?

It will be interesting how this changes our approach, but it should hopefully create some nice problems for Klopp in terms of selection and some headaches for opposition managers in how to set up against us.

Just hope we do it and one of them isn't Demarai Gray

If we're playing 4-3-3 next season it makes perfect sense as we've done it this season with only 1 out and out wide forward - although Coutinho on song is really effective there. You'd probably still want 4 for the 2 slots

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Indeed Jack, the biggest concern for me is that Joyce is repeatedly mentioning Gray (and Oxlade Chamberlain but I'm more on board with him because I think he'd be great cover to have both in midfield and out wide). I can only imagine the club are pushing him to manage expectations when we inevitably spunk £25m on a player we could have had for £4m a little over a year ago and hasn't improved since

[cdav]

Just hope we do it and one of them isn't Demarai Gray

If we're playing 4-3-3 next season it makes perfect sense as we've done it this season with only 1 out and out wide forward - although Coutinho on song is really effective there. You'd probably still want 4 for the 2 slots

So you'd be happy with Redmond then

Obviously we are still after Brandt (although it will be tough with Bayern apparently interested) but I think a left footed wide player would bring a lot of threat and balance to our team and help in the games against packed defences (I would really like us to take a punt on Robben if he is after a big final payday).

[LallanaInPyjamas]

So you'd be happy with Redmond then

Obviously we are still after Brandt (although it will be tough with Bayern apparently interested) but I think a left footed wide player would bring a lot of threat and balance to our team and help in the games against packed defences (I would really like us to take a punt on Robben if he is after a big final payday).

Would be dreamy but Robben signed a year extension, genuinely the most under-rated player of his generation though due to not being liked and his injury record. With his talent he should have won a Balon d'Or.

A player like him or Sane would do absolute wonders for us though, I agree.

FWIW I'd much rather have Redmond than Gray.

[Suareznumber7]

Joyce reporting we're in the market for 2 wide players this summer

Interesting because from a tactical point of view that almost certainly means Coutinho in midfield more next season

Or a change in formation to a 4-2-3-1.  Even if we stick with the same tactical setup we need 2 wide players anyway as the only cover we have in wide areas are Lallana and Firmino.  Two players that are much better in their favored positions. 

[SerbianScouser]

Not reacting to rebounds when defending set-pieces is one of the strangest flaws I've seen with any Liverpool team in yonks. They just refuse to do anything but freeze and ball watch. It's beyond bizarre how we can't fix this. It has literally destroyed our title ambition this season because without this silly easily avoided soft goals we'd be right up there with Chelsea now.

[Eeyore]

Not reacting to rebounds when defending set-pieces is one of the strangest flaws I've seen with any Liverpool team in yonks. They just refuse to do anything but freeze and ball watch. It's beyond bizarre how we can't fix this. It has literally destroyed our title ambition this season because without this silly easily avoided soft goals we'd be right up there with Chelsea now.

Isn't that a natural consequence of having so few defensively minded players though ?

[rickardinho1]

A Logical Outlook for this Summers Transfer Window

Note: This isn't meant to be a "who should we buy" post, but rather mainly a look at the bigger picture look at what calibre player the club should be aiming for to fit into Klopp's system.

Likely Sales (values from transfermarkt which usually under-estimates):

- Bogdan: £0.85m
- Moreno: £8.5m
- Sturridge: £18.7m
- Randall: £0.5m
Total: £28.5m

Loanees likely to be sold:

- Sakho: £8.5m (LFC reportedly want £20m)
- Wisdom: £1.7m
- Markovic: £8.5m
Total: £18.7m (or factoring in £20m for Sakho = £30.2m)

Expiring Contract

- Lucas: would leave on a free

Other loanees (likely to be loaned again)

Loan: Ward, Fulton, Kent, Flanagan, Allan, Awoniyi, Chirivella, Brannagan, Dunn



2017/18 Projected Squad

The moves above would leave the squad for 2017/18 like this (with the minimum expected places for likely incoming signings in bold):

                   Karius
                  Mignolet

Clyne    Matip      CB          LB
Trent    Lovren    Klavan    Milner
            Gomez

                Henderson
                 Lucas/DM*
                  Stewart
         Lallana           CM
       Wijnaldum        Can
          Grujic             Ejaria
Mané                             Coutinho
RW                                Woodburn
Wilson                            Ojo
                  Firmino
                   Origi
                   Ings


Transfers In

Last summer Klopp signed Karius (£4.7m), Matip (free), Wijnaldum (£25m), Mané (£30m) - all of whom went into the first XI. Klavan (£5m) and Manninger (free) were signed for depth.

That suggests that Klopp will continue to sign players primarily for his first XI rather than for depth, and judging by the squad needs I think it's entirely realistic to expect the following:

- LB: First XI LB
- CB: First XI CB to partner Matip
- *DM: If Lucas leaves, get a new DM to compete with Henderson/Can
- AM: A first XI calibre and versatile midfielder who shares Lallana's dynamism
- RW/LW: A first XI calibre winger who can compete with Coutinho and Mané for starts.

The forward positions are still a little bit light, given that the change is basically Sturridge>new RW.

That said, replacing Sturridge with a less injury prone player is already an addition, particularly as ST>RW addresses the balance issue; and Woodburn, Wilson, Ojo, Kent, and Origi will all be a year older, not to mention that Ings will be back from injury (big question marks about him though).

Nonetheless, it wouldn't surprise me to see another striker brought in as well.


Potential Budget

As outlined above (based on transfermarkt valuations), likely incoming from sales of Bogdan, Randall, Moreno, Sturridge; plus Sakho, Wisdom, Markovic = £47.2m (£58.7 if £20m for Sakho is received).

Again, that figure is based on transfermarkt valuations which are usually very conservative.

Considering that the club were negative spenders last summer (-£14.5m) and didn't spend anything in January, the noise coming from Paul Joyce that this summer could feature a big expenditure would make sense as the money is certainly there, particularly when you factor in potential CL money.

Effectively, if the player sales listed above do materialize at about the total valuations of ~£47m, the club could effectively buy two £25m players before even pushing the boat out with any additional money.

As for total outlay, a net spend of around £100m seems more than reasonable for a club with ambitions in the CL that has also essentially saved up last summers transfer budget too. Below is the net spend last year (from skysports) for reference:

Summer 2016 net spend:
Man City: £169m
Man Utd: £141m
Chelsea: £98m
Arsenal: £82m
Spurs: £30m
Liverpool: negative £15m

If Liverpool and FSG want to compete at the top then it's time to push the boat out and start matching the ambition of the other top clubs, particularly at a time when Arsenal and United are going through tricky times.

With a big budget available, but realistically only 5-6 positions to fill that means focusing on quality rather than quantity.


Potential Signings

Looking at the potential sales which could bring in over £50m, that means that the club could spend £25m on someone like Brandt and £25m on a CM, leaving whatever the rest of the budget is to solve the CB, LB, and DM positions.

Needless to say, there really shouldn't be any reason why the club can't offer top money for the very top targets, like Van Dijk, James Rodriguez, Brandt, etc (just to name some examples).

Something along the lines of this, which is an expenditure of £155m, which minus the incoming ~£50m is a net spend of £105m:

£40m - Van Dijk (CB)
£25m - Brandt (LW) - a genuine option to compete with Coutinho at LW
£50m - Rodriguez (CM/RW) - someone who can play alongside (or instead of) Lallana, or also rotate with Mané
£20m - LB
£20M - DM - bought only if Lucas leaves, and to compete with Henderson/Can


Summary

That's all well and good, but there still remains one big question that needs to be asked:

Despite having money available, can Liverpool actually attract the top tier of talents?

You'd certainly hope so given that the club:

- is looking likely to be back in the Champions League,
- is in financially good health,
- has a proven manager like Klopp in charge, and
- has a great record against top PL sides this season (i.e. going undefeated against Top 10 sides) which is strongly suggestive that the team is capable of challenging in Europe too, which will surely be attractive to any incoming targets.

Now that might be an optimistic view, but just take a moment to imagine Klopp fielding a lineup like this...

Starting XI: Mignolet; Clyne, Matip, Van Dijk, New LB; Henderson, Lallana, Rodriguez; Mané, Coutinho, Firmino

Bench: Karius, Lovren, Milner, Can, Wijnaldum, Brandt, Origi
In reserve: Klavan, Gomez, Trent, Grujic, Lucas/New DM, Stewart, Wilson, Woodburn, Ejaria, Ojo, Ings

All-in-all, plenty to be excited about, as it seems as if the club is finally in a position to spend money, and the squad is likewise in a healthy state to have genuine star quality added to it rather than big overhauls.

It has the potential to be a big summer for the club, and one in which there will be no excuses for FSG for not landing top players to meet the ambition of the fans and Klopp himself.

[joekim87]

Which left backs are we targeting? Surely no one in the Prem? Any good German lads? Moreno is also gone?

Also with Milner playing left back, Bayern Munich have used central midfielders as their full backs in recent years. Could this become a trend in England or world football? Was Klopp ahead of the curve by playing Milner there this season?

Signing James Rodriguez would be just amazing. A real statement purchase and would send a message out to the rest of the league. Don't know if he'll fit into the system that well yet. He's more of a central attacking midfielder isn't he? Perhaps he'll rotate with Firmino up front more than Countinho out on the left?

Still 'no' to Joe Hart? Would love to sign Pickford or Butland. I still think Karius has it in him to become a class keeper. Migs to go?

[LiamG]

It's a tactics thread, Just saying

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I'll eat my hat if we ever spend £100m net in one window under FSG. Never happening.

[rickardinho1]

It's a tactics thread, Just saying

Given the shortage of depth and  quality in the squad it's only natural to discuss how Klopp might go about fixing that - i.e. what sort of players he might look to fit tactical needs in the squad.

Which left backs are we targeting? Surely no one in the Prem? Any good German lads? Moreno is also gone?

Also with Milner playing left back, Bayern Munich have used central midfielders as their full backs in recent years. Could this become a trend in England or world football? Was Klopp ahead of the curve by playing Milner there this season?

Signing James Rodriguez would be just amazing. A real statement purchase and would send a message out to the rest of the league. Don't know if he'll fit into the system that well yet. He's more of a central attacking midfielder isn't he? Perhaps he'll rotate with Firmino up front more than Countinho out on the left?

Still 'no' to Joe Hart? Would love to sign Pickford or Butland. I still think Karius has it in him to become a class keeper. Migs to go?

I don't think Milner will play LB long term, for the primary reason that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever tactically given that we lose all width on the left in attack. The writing is on the wall for Moreno (he has played like 8 games all season despite being our only actual LB). I've seen recent links to a few decent LB's (eg. Ryan Sessegnon, Theo Hernandez, Riza Durmisi) but they seem to be just paper talk at this stage.

I envisage that Klopp will want to have another CM with the attacking dynamism of Lallana, to dribble and beat a man to get us moving. Lallana is sorely missed and it would make sense to bring in someone like Rodriguez who can play that CM/AM role, even playing next to Lallana in games against weaker sides, as well as covering for Mané at RW. Guillem Balague (very a well known La Liga reporter) said this week that Liverpool are interested in him (along with several other clubs), so there might be something to it.

Signing the error-prone and aging Hart wouldn't exactly fit the tactics nor the wage structure so I can't see that happening. Karius was signed as a long-term option and suits the high defensive line in Klopp's system; but needs time to settle and iron out his flaws. Remember that De Gea also looked shaky in his first season or two at United.

[macmanamanaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRJEFHzHjL4

Let's get behind this man.
The biggest 8 games of the season coming up, starting today!

~Apologies for the diversion. This song needs to be heard more

[Tobelius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRJEFHzHjL4

Let's get behind this man.
The biggest 8 games of the season coming up, starting today!

~Apologies for the diversion. This song needs to be heard more

Possibly one of the best songs ever made. 

[lionel_messias]

Given the shortage of depth and  quality in the squad it's only natural to discuss how Klopp might go about fixing that - i.e. what sort of players he might look to fit tactical needs in the squad.
I don't think Milner will play LB long term, for the primary reason that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever tactically given that we lose all width on the left in attack. The writing is on the wall for Moreno (he has played like 8 games all season despite being our only actual LB). I've seen recent links to a few decent LB's (eg. Ryan Sessegnon, Theo Hernandez, Riza Durmisi) but they seem to be just paper talk at this stage.

I envisage that Klopp will want to have another CM with the attacking dynamism of Lallana, to dribble and beat a man to get us moving. Lallana is sorely missed and it would make sense to bring in someone like Rodriguez who can play that CM/AM role, even playing next to Lallana in games against weaker sides, as well as covering for Mané at RW. Guillem Balague (very a well known La Liga reporter) said this week that Liverpool are interested in him (along with several other clubs), so there might be something to it.

Signing the error-prone and aging Hart wouldn't exactly fit the tactics nor the wage structure so I can't see that happening. Karius was signed as a long-term option and suits the high defensive line in Klopp's system; but needs time to settle and iron out his flaws. Remember that De Gea also looked shaky in his first season or two at United.

James Rodriguez is very interesting and would be a helluva glamourous signing, plus shirt sales in South America (sorry) however: I wonder if it's more likely we go for a cheaper option like Naby Keita from Red Bull. He has tremendous ability, gets assists, presses like a demon, and would be available for 40% of the James money.

Bringing it back to tactics, he is a robust player who can link up with forwards and destroy an opponent with pace and movement when we swarm forward (Klopp style) on the counter.

The likes of Keita joining Gini and Can creates a machine. The idea would be Keita is more reliable than Lallana, would get you more goals and assists over a number of games

[SerbianScouser]

One thing that dawned on me this season is that fullbacks as such are a complete and utter waste of time.

Unless you have Dani Alves in your ranks it's truly pointless to even have them. They are not stopping goals and they are not creating goals , they don' t do anything. Clyne for example would be very useful in a predominantly defensive team and with such role I wouldn't have any other fullback in the world than him. But when you watch him and Milner in the final third it really is a chore. When Clyne gets the ball in the final third does anyone have a sense of anticipation and optimism that something positive is going to happen, ever?

I kinda feel envious when I see Chelsea because for a good few years they had the same issue where they were forced to watch Azpilicueta plodding in the final third , trying to do stuff he simply doesn't have enough talent to pull off, but then they switch to an outside CB position and all of the sudden you get the sense that they covered all his flaws and accentuated all his strengths. And that's precisely how you achieve balance in your football team, don't force people to do something they're not talented enough to achieve.

Until we either find fullbacks who can actually dribble and play 1-2s unless we switch to back 3 and use either of them as outside CBs we will never achieve that complete balance to where everyone is perfectly comfortable with their role.

[joekim87]

Given the shortage of depth and  quality in the squad it's only natural to discuss how Klopp might go about fixing that - i.e. what sort of players he might look to fit tactical needs in the squad.
I don't think Milner will play LB long term, for the primary reason that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever tactically given that we lose all width on the left in attack. The writing is on the wall for Moreno (he has played like 8 games all season despite being our only actual LB). I've seen recent links to a few decent LB's (eg. Ryan Sessegnon, Theo Hernandez, Riza Durmisi) but they seem to be just paper talk at this stage.

I envisage that Klopp will want to have another CM with the attacking dynamism of Lallana, to dribble and beat a man to get us moving. Lallana is sorely missed and it would make sense to bring in someone like Rodriguez who can play that CM/AM role, even playing next to Lallana in games against weaker sides, as well as covering for Mané at RW. Guillem Balague (very a well known La Liga reporter) said this week that Liverpool are interested in him (along with several other clubs), so there might be something to it.

Signing the error-prone and aging Hart wouldn't exactly fit the tactics nor the wage structure so I can't see that happening. Karius was signed as a long-term option and suits the high defensive line in Klopp's system; but needs time to settle and iron out his flaws. Remember that De Gea also looked shaky in his first season or two at United.

You're right about Hart, makes complete sense.

James Rodriguez is very interesting and would be a helluva glamourous signing, plus shirt sales in South America (sorry) however: I wonder if it's more likely we go for a cheaper option like Naby Keita from Red Bull. He has tremendous ability, gets assists, presses like a demon, and would be available for 40% of the James money.

Bringing it back to tactics, he is a robust player who can link up with forwards and destroy an opponent with pace and movement when we swarm forward (Klopp style) on the counter.

The likes of Keita joining Gini and Can creates a machine. The idea would be Keita is more reliable than Lallana, would get you more goals and assists over a number of games

Let's get them both.

[Upinsmoke]

I don't even give a shit about attackers now. Not after our constant failings in defense and I want to talk about how Klopp's refusal to acknowledge this 18 months into his tenure has left us with the same frailties as when he first took over.

If one thing is apparent it's the refusal to acknowledge the need for top quality defenders. He brought in a centre half in Matip on a free, now Matip is a wonderful defender who had his share of injury problems but bar them he ticked all the boxes especially value. And that was the overriding factor here. We then have a situation where we refuse to buy a full back because we don't want to pay the going rate for defenders so we move Milner there. Oh he'll do a job, it's just a defender, not that important.

Klopp falls out with Sakho, so now we have Klavan, brought in as backup but if he needs to play, well he'll do, it's only a defender at the end of the day, not that important.

Karius is brought in cheaply too, an improvement on Mignolet? Not sure but what the hell, the worse that can happen is he does rubbish then we've still got Mignolet and he'll hardly have anything to do all game.

In a league where you can't win fuck all without a good defence we should of been looking to spend closer to 50m on a centre half and left back and not 4m on an Estonian, sweet fa on a left back because Milly is a honest lad and will put a shift in so fuck it.

Then we have the repeat failings at set pieces. The problem with this is that other teams have so much confidence and belief that they will score off one that they actually do. And we have such a lack of confidence that we will sufficiently defend one all game. It's kinds like where man United uses to believe they would always have a chance in added on time, and if you was playing them you was nervous about that because doubt sets in that you can see the match out.

The biggest thing was a refusal to bring Sakho back into the fold when we needed him and then not signing anyone knowing full well that Klopp was never remotely interested in brining Sakho back into the first team despite how desperate things will get.

Same story at full back, why on earth is Moreno even here? If you can't trust him occasionally over Milner who isn't even a full back by trade.

Klopp needs to wake up and smell the coffee and realise there is more to English football than outscoring your opponents. If he doesn't rectify it in the summer then he'll find alot of support starts to question him.

[Dave D]

I don't even give a shit about attackers now. Not after our constant failings in defense and I want to talk about how Klopp's refusal to acknowledge this 18 months into his tenure has left us with the same frailties as when he first took over.

He has spoken about it. He knows it's an issue.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/219058-the-boss-on-the-defence-confidence-levels-and-changes

It's always in football like this. When you build up a team, you start with the defence - that's how it is. It keeps you in the game and gives you the opportunity to score once and win the game. Yes for sure, it will be. But not only speaking to the defenders or something like this. We had different problems in this and we solved a lot of them already. Set-pieces were the worst, to be honest, because it's nothing about the game, it's a part of the game where we needed to improve and we did. Then we conceded a few other goals, so I'm never happy with conceding goals, to be honest. It's clear, it's how we build up a team and that's one of the biggest targets for the next season. Not for the rest of this season, but for next season and then to build up a stability in this part of the game.

I have no doubt the defenders brought in were probably the best available to Jürgen in his opinion at the time. He may have the final say but he also has to deal with some bloke with a laptop and a copy of football manager, and a bunch of business men determined to get value for money and only wanting to spend big on premiership proven players.

8 of the starting 11 were signed by Rodgers, Edwards and whatever other useless c*nts were on the transfer committee. 1 player was signed by Rafa. Only 2 players that started were signed while Jürgen was here. The fact that he can get this pile of shit up to 3rd at the moment is exceeding all expectations.

In the 3 transfer windows that Jürgen has been here, we've actually taken in more money from player sales than we've spent on players. It's going to take time.

As for Sakho, he was fucked out the door for a reason. Hopefully we never see him in a Liverpool shirt again.

[killer-heels]

He has spoken about it. He knows it's an issue.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/219058-the-boss-on-the-defence-confidence-levels-and-changes

I have no doubt the defenders brought in were probably the best available to Jürgen in his opinion at the time. He may have the final say but he also has to deal with some bloke with a laptop and a copy of football manager, and a bunch of business men determined to get value for money and only wanting to spend big on premiership proven players.

8 of the starting 11 were signed by Rodgers, Edwards and whatever other useless c*nts were on the transfer committee. 1 player was signed by Rafa. Only 2 players that started were signed while Jürgen was here. The fact that he can get this pile of shit up to 3rd at the moment is exceeding all expectations.

In the 3 transfer windows that Jürgen has been here, we've actually taken in more money from player sales than we've spent on players. It's going to take time.

As for Sakho, he was fucked out the door for a reason. Hopefully we never see him in a Liverpool shirt again.

That interview from Klopp was pretty much 1 year ago and its hard to say that we have improved. Maybe we have improved against a certain type of team, system or player but certainly not overall.

We cannot just ignore this and expect to get better. It has to be the main area of improvement in the summer both in the transfer market and on the training pitch.

[CallumLFC]

One thing that dawned on me this season is that fullbacks as such are a complete and utter waste of time.

Spurs are showing otherwise. Walker and Rose are brilliant.

[killer-heels]

Spurs are showing otherwise. Walker and Rose are brilliant.

They are ok. Their output is hit and miss, just like most full backs. I think we place far high demands on what we ask our fullbacks to produce.

Both Clyne and Milner have arguably been our best defenders. Certainly better than the centre backs.

[markmywords]

One thing that dawned on me this season is that fullbacks as such are a complete and utter waste of time.

Unless you have Dani Alves in your ranks it's truly pointless to even have them. They are not stopping goals and they are not creating goals , they don' t do anything. Clyne for example would be very useful in a predominantly defensive team and with such role I wouldn't have any other fullback in the world than him. But when you watch him and Milner in the final third it really is a chore. When Clyne gets the ball in the final third does anyone have a sense of anticipation and optimism that something positive is going to happen, ever?

I kinda feel envious when I see Chelsea because for a good few years they had the same issue where they were forced to watch Azpilicueta plodding in the final third , trying to do stuff he simply doesn't have enough talent to pull off, but then they switch to an outside CB position and all of the sudden you get the sense that they covered all his flaws and accentuated all his strengths. And that's precisely how you achieve balance in your football team, don't force people to do something they're not talented enough to achieve.

Until we either find fullbacks who can actually dribble and play 1-2s unless we switch to back 3 and use either of them as outside CBs we will never achieve that complete balance to where everyone is perfectly comfortable with their role.

Our fb's might be seen as a waste, but if we got a left back that could beat his man of the outside, even on the overlap, it would help us greatly.  IMO,

We could potentially use firmino in the outside left position at times.  the left back wouldn't even need to beat him man, just as long as he could time his runs on the overlap, it would give us an extra gear, against teams that park the bus and defend narrow

[Anfield89]

This is the summer these spending rumours have to become a reality and not leave ourselves short. We haven't progressed from last season so hopefully it's addressed.

[killer-heels]

This is the summer these spending rumours have to become a reality and not leave ourselves short. We haven't progressed from last season so hopefully it's addressed.

We have progressed. We finished 8th last season.

[Anfield89]

We have progressed. We finished 8th last season.

We got to two finals last season more games had to make more use of a thin squad.

[Jfor83]

Milner is not helped by having coutinho on his side as he never overlaps to make space, coutinho always seems to want the ball pulled back to him so he can come in on his right foot. Also Milner isn't positionally sound defensively, he needs replacing in the side.

[Jfor83]

We have progressed. We finished 8th last season.

We will have to wait until the seasons over to determine wether we have progressed, we don't know where we will finish yet, it could be anywhere from 3-6 I think. We will certainly finish higher than 8th but then we have had no Europe to contend with so for me 6th will be pretty much par with last season.

[killer-heels]

We will have to wait until the seasons over to determine wether we have progressed, we don't know where we will finish yet, it could be anywhere from 3-6 I think. We will certainly finish higher than 8th but then we have had no Europe to contend with so for me 6th will be pretty much par with last season.

I dont believe for a second that we will finish 6th. If that does happen then yes its not progress.