Author Topic: The Anfield Index Thread  (Read 39128 times)

Offline Big Bamber

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The Anfield Index Thread
« on: August 7, 2016, 01:49:58 am »
NOTE: I didn't start this thread. It was split from the TAW thread by a Moderator. Cheers.

Hmmm some people getting the concept of people having a "narrative" mixed up with the concept of people having an "opinion" that sufferers from their own I suspect.

When someone's opinion doesn't agree with yours, it strangely seems to be called a narrative.
Hey ho.
Gives me many great hours of listening, intelligent discussion, and a number of laughs, so I'm happy.

Yep, the Anfield Index dedicated a recent pod to addressing accusations of having an "agenda", maybe TAW could consider doing the same.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:57:57 pm by Big Bamber »

Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 7, 2016, 01:27:46 pm »
Yep, the Anfield Index dedicated a recent pod to addressing accusations of having an "agenda", maybe TAW could consider doing the same.

Good for them.
"I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life--I don't apologize--to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize--that's my life--but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string."

Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 7, 2016, 03:37:05 pm »

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 7, 2016, 03:58:49 pm »
Doing an "agenda" pod would be utterly trivial. Can you imagine a newspaper doing a two-page spread on how objective their journalism is?



I was a bit too young to really remember Serie A when it reached it's point of extreme opulence, but I wonder if the PL is going through a similar phase now, and whether eventually we'll see clubs who spend beyond their means/beyond sensibility suffering in a a decade or so whilst the more prudent clubs survive a league-wide collapse? It's hard to see the PL money just rising exponentially without this false economy crashing down.

Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 7, 2016, 04:01:27 pm »
And for the listener. Yes?

And let the tail wag the Dog?

I wouldn't dignify it as it would only make an issue out of, apart from on here, a complete non-issue.
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 7, 2016, 04:26:01 pm »
Any modern media outfit that does not do all it can to demonstrate its objectivity (save where they have an overt editorial line which is part of its USP) is asking for trouble. As for a "tail" (?), this agenda debate is pretty lively on Twitter not just RAWK, involving the two main pods with 100k-odd followers each. Anyway, Anfield Index's dedicated episode was a good listen, which is priority one, but also was refreshingly ballsy. I listen to and enjoy both TAW and AI, but the fact that they broadcast almost as if the other doesn't exist is more than a little odd.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 7, 2016, 04:28:39 pm »
Any modern media outfit that does not do all it can to demonstrate its objectivity (save where they have an overt editorial line which is part of its USP) is asking for trouble. As for a "tail" (?), this agenda debate is pretty lively on Twitter not just RAWK, involving the two main pods with 100k-odd followers each. Anyway, Anfield Index's dedicated episode was a good listen, which is priority one, but also was refreshingly ballsy. I listen to and enjoy both TAW and AI, but the fact that they broadcast almost as if the other doesn't exist is more than a little odd.

How were they not being objective? It's just a bunch of lads having a chat and somebody has stuck a microphone in the middle and recorded it.

If people are too thick to realise that and think it's some crazy agenda then that's their problem, they especially shouldn't listen to dickheads on twitter
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Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 7, 2016, 04:41:37 pm »
Any modern media outfit that does not do all it can to demonstrate its objectivity (save where they have an overt editorial line which is part of its USP) is asking for trouble. As for a "tail" (?), this agenda debate is pretty lively on Twitter not just RAWK, involving the two main pods with 100k-odd followers each. Anyway, Anfield Index's dedicated episode was a good listen, which is priority one, but also was refreshingly ballsy. I listen to and enjoy both TAW and AI, but the fact that they broadcast almost as if the other doesn't exist is more than a little odd.

Asking for trouble?

Should we be expecting an invite from the Culture, Media and Sport Committee?

It's a podcast, mate, or rather a series of them, and the only responsibility we have is to each other.
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 7, 2016, 05:09:59 pm »
How were they not being objective? It's just a bunch of lads having a chat and somebody has stuck a microphone in the middle and recorded it.

If people are too thick to realise that and think it's some crazy agenda then that's their problem, they especially shouldn't listen to dickheads on twitter

How it's recorded does not shape objectivity. And we all know that the LFC pods more than a few lads having a chat. This thread has over one million views. Calling consumers "thick" for any reason, never-mind for merely questioning the approach is sad. And dickheads should not be listened to, anywhere. Twitter has 300 million users.


Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 7, 2016, 05:11:10 pm »
Asking for trouble?

Should we be expecting an invite from the Culture, Media and Sport Committee?

It's a podcast, mate, or rather a series of them, and the only responsibility we have is to each other.

Don't be daft. Asking for trouble among its readership/listenership in the long run. And you have no responsibility to listeners? Cool.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 7, 2016, 05:20:09 pm »
Any modern media outfit that does not do all it can to demonstrate its objectivity (save where they have an overt editorial line which is part of its USP) is asking for trouble. As for a "tail" (?), this agenda debate is pretty lively on Twitter not just RAWK, involving the two main pods with 100k-odd followers each. Anyway, Anfield Index's dedicated episode was a good listen, which is priority one, but also was refreshingly ballsy. I listen to and enjoy both TAW and AI, but the fact that they broadcast almost as if the other doesn't exist is more than a little odd.

If you were so arsed about any of this why didn't you bring it up before TAI released that particular pod?
« Last Edit: August 7, 2016, 05:22:44 pm by Kashinoda »
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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 7, 2016, 05:23:48 pm »
Any modern media outfit that does not do all it can to demonstrate its objectivity (save where they have an overt editorial line which is part of its USP) is asking for trouble. As for a "tail" (?), this agenda debate is pretty lively on Twitter not just RAWK, involving the two main pods with 100k-odd followers each. Anyway, Anfield Index's dedicated episode was a good listen, which is priority one, but also was refreshingly ballsy. I listen to and enjoy both TAW and AI, but the fact that they broadcast almost as if the other doesn't exist is more than a little odd.

When TAW becomes a 'major media outlet' I'll pack it in. It's got loads of listeners because it's still essentially a bunch of lads and girls who get on talking about stuff - Liverpool and Liverpool life in particular. The level of debate and discussion is high because there are some very good contributors.
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 7, 2016, 05:29:08 pm »
If you were so arsed about any of this why didn't you bring it up before TAI released that particular pod?

Read the thread. I didn't raise the issue.

Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 7, 2016, 05:30:58 pm »
When TAW becomes a 'major media outlet' I'll pack it in. It's got loads of listeners because it's still essentially a bunch of lads and girls who get on talking about stuff - Liverpool and Liverpool life in particular. The level of debate and discussion is high because there are some very good contributors.

I said 'modern' not 'major', but agree we are lucky to have good quality pods/contributors from TAW, AI, and elsewhere.

Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 7, 2016, 05:48:13 pm »
Don't be daft. Asking for trouble among its readership/listenership in the long run. And you have no responsibility to listeners? Cool.

People either choose to listen and or subscribe or they don't, if they like it, then great, if they don't then it's completely up to them, no hard feelings either way.

In my opinion we have no more responsibility to our listeners than BT Sport/Sky/Spotify have to me as a consumer of their products and services.

My personal responsibility to myself and the lads we work with is to produce great content and to push the boundaries of what people think is possible from us which I think we constantly do FOR our listeners and subscribers.

« Last Edit: August 7, 2016, 05:54:46 pm by Don Vito Corleone »
"I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life--I don't apologize--to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize--that's my life--but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string."

Offline Cadno

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #15 on: August 7, 2016, 07:50:24 pm »
Yep, the Anfield Index dedicated a recent pod to addressing accusations of having an "agenda", maybe TAW could consider doing the same.
That pod was utter rubbish.  it was a just Angulo shouting and swearing about how there is no agenda and then it turned into a back slapping pod.  There was no balance at all to it.  I Really hope TAW aren't that insecure about their opinions and if they were I'd hope it would be far more balanced
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #16 on: August 7, 2016, 08:08:03 pm »
That pod was utter rubbish.  it was a just Angulo shouting and swearing about how there is no agenda and then it turned into a back slapping pod.  There was no balance at all to it.  I Really hope TAW aren't that insecure about their opinions and if they were I'd hope it would be far more balanced

Opinions, innit? I thought it was a decent effort at taking on a criticism. It stated that given the huge number of Anfield Index shows there are now, from across the globe, all with a different pitch, featuring high standard contributors (Marco Lopez, Dan Kennet, Dan Rhodes etc.), the idea of an enforced/enforceable agenda seems unlikely. It also recognised that much of the criticism it gets is conflated with issues people have with one contributor. I found all of that reasonably convincing. Funny you didn't get any of that...

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 7, 2016, 08:27:42 pm »
Opinions, innit? I thought it was a decent effort at taking on a criticism. It stated that given the huge number of Anfield Index shows there are now, from across the globe, all with a different pitch, featuring high standard contributors (Marco Lopez, Dan Kennet, Dan Rhodes etc.), the idea of an enforced/enforceable agenda seems unlikely. It also recognised that much of the criticism it gets is conflated with issues people have with one contributor. I found all of that reasonably convincing. Funny you didn't get any of that...
Don't get me wrong I quite like some of the Ai shows but that pod was pointless.   There is no agenda but the constant derision of Rodgers is a bit pathetic.  Almost every show will have a dig at him and some contributors will tie every single thing that is negative back to him.    At least with TAW there is a general respect for players and manager  both current and former (the Hodge excluded) whether that are rated by the contributors or not. 
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 7, 2016, 08:38:48 pm »
Don't get me wrong I quite like some of the Ai shows but that pod was pointless.   There is no agenda but the constant derision of Rodgers is a bit pathetic.  Almost every show will have a dig at him and some contributors will tie every single thing that is negative back to him.    At least with TAW there is a general respect for players and manager  both current and former (the Hodge excluded) whether that are rated by the contributors or not.

Ok but it quite obviously was not pointless (I named reasonable five points for example), and you conclude there is no agenda. I listen to AI regularly and disagree that "almost every show" has a dig at Rodgers, and that "every single thing that is negative" is tied back to him, by even the most strident contributors. The reality is that what Klopp is building can be framed as undoing what was in place.

Anyway, my point was that an open discussion on TAW of pod-world, editorial lines and accusations of narrative/agenda, funding/sustainability, and competition that (shock horror!) included naming other pods would be an interesting listen.



Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #19 on: August 7, 2016, 09:28:26 pm »
Can we keep on topic please. If one of the lads from the Anfield Index wants to start a thread feel free to do so. This one was started by Andy and it's good to share direct feedback on here.

Thanks

No problem, though providing feedback on any service without reference to its main 'competitor' would be nonsensical.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 7, 2016, 09:37:50 pm »
No problem, though providing feedback on any service without reference to its main 'competitor' would be nonsensical.

Respectfully, we don't have 'competitors', it's not a competition.
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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #21 on: August 7, 2016, 09:39:43 pm »
Respectfully, we don't have 'competitors', it's not a competition.

You should offer them out
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 7, 2016, 09:50:04 pm »
The fact that there's been this level of debate about one show feels faintly ridiculous but I guess it's a back handed compliment given the sheer quality and quantity of TAW in general.

If there's a show you don't agree with or enjoy it shouldn't be a drama, there'll be another one you like along in a minute.

I say this as a current non-subscriber! Finally landed a new job so will set up once I'm back up and running!

In fairness, the debate broadened well beyond that show.

Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 7, 2016, 09:53:46 pm »
Respectfully, we don't have 'competitors', it's not a competition.

Respectfully, that's not true. TAW is looking for listeners and now subscribers, and the presence and quality of providers of a similar service will be an important determinant of how well it does in that regard. That's competition.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 7, 2016, 10:00:37 pm »
Respectfully, that's not true. TAW is looking for listeners and now subscribers, and the presence and quality of providers of a similar service will be an important determinant of how well it does in that regard. That's competition.

If you're going to talk about a competitor, that dave Hendrick bellend has been peddling his lucas agenda carte blanche for years. Some of the AI pods are decent, not a patch on the wrap though.

Fully agree with Andy and Neil's ripostes to the criticisms of the unwrapped.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2016, 10:07:34 pm by DangerScouse »

Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #25 on: August 7, 2016, 10:02:12 pm »
Respectfully, that's not true. TAW is looking for listeners and now subscribers, and the presence and quality of providers of a similar service will be an important determinant of how well it does in that regard. That's competition.


Wasn't aware you had to choose one or the other mate to be honest, or did AI launch a paid service that I was unaware of?

If they haven't then it's not just AI we're in competition with, it's about 15 other LFC based podcasts?

A competition that exists nowhere aside from in your head.

I wish AI every success, sincerely.

We're not fighting for airtime, the nature of podcasts is that you can listen when you want, not quite sure what you're driving at unless you're trying to create a debate that doesn't currently exist?
« Last Edit: August 7, 2016, 10:07:39 pm by Don Vito Corleone »
"I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life--I don't apologize--to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize--that's my life--but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string."

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #26 on: August 7, 2016, 10:04:38 pm »
Can we keep on topic please. If one of the lads from the Anfield Index wants to start a thread feel free to do so. This one was started by Andy and it's good to share direct feedback on here.

Thanks

Big Bamber - if you want to start a thread feel free. This is done in here.
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #27 on: August 7, 2016, 10:20:49 pm »
Big Bamber - if you want to start a thread feel free. This is done in here.

Ok, though I do not agree that a new thread is the best way to progress this discussion.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2016, 11:21:33 pm by Big Bamber »

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #28 on: August 8, 2016, 12:12:42 am »
Ok, though I do not agree that a new thread is the best way to progress this discussion.
What discussion? TAW made a podcast last week which people commented about, they've made several since with many more to follow this week. It's an extremely popular pod which can be discussed day by day, but there's no lingering issue to be progressed at all and certainly no competition as Andy says.

TAI deserves its own thread because its also thoroughly enjoyable (I actually thought there was one) and any FSG discussion can have its own thread. An FSG discussion on here shouldn't be contained within a TAW thread because it may not be representative of TAW.

So if you want a wider discussion BB feel free to bump an existing thread :)


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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #29 on: August 8, 2016, 12:40:40 am »
How it's recorded does not shape objectivity. And we all know that the LFC pods more than a few lads having a chat. This thread has over one million views. Calling consumers "thick" for any reason, never-mind for merely questioning the approach is sad. And dickheads should not be listened to, anywhere. Twitter has 300 million users.



I have nothing to do with TAW, they're not my consumers, but if somebody genuinely thinks that "TAW" has some kind of agenda against the ownership, then yeah they're thick
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #30 on: August 8, 2016, 02:13:57 am »
Wasn't aware you had to choose one or the other mate to be honest, or did AI launch a paid service that I was unaware of?

If they haven't then it's not just AI we're in competition with, it's about 15 other LFC based podcasts?

A competition that exists nowhere aside from in your head.

I wish AI every success, sincerely.

We're not fighting for airtime, the nature of podcasts is that you can listen when you want, not quite sure what you're driving at unless you're trying to create a debate that doesn't currently exist?

Conscious of Alan_X's dictat Andy, I do have to choose one pod over another. TAW is fighting for my airtime (10 hours per week maybe). For the record I never said TAW had any specific agenda (eg pro/anti FSG), I said that a pod about the market for LFC pods, sustainability, editorial approach, and accusations of having a narrative and agenda would make interesting listening. That is a live discussion. There is another thread on podcasts, but I believe that the most fruitful discussion on these issues would be most productively sustained if framed in the context of the standard-bearer, TAW. If that offends the Moderator, mea culpa.
« Last Edit: August 8, 2016, 02:26:02 am by Big Bamber »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #31 on: August 8, 2016, 05:52:19 am »
I've split this out from the TAW thread - please use
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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #32 on: August 8, 2016, 07:20:54 am »
Love TAW and Anfield Index.
Can't believe AI is still free. How does Gags (owner) pay the bills?

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #33 on: August 8, 2016, 09:10:27 am »
Personally enjoy both TAW and AI. Never really understood this narrative from some that you have to choose one or the other. Why? Just dip in and out of both and listen to those that interest you.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #34 on: August 8, 2016, 11:43:09 am »
TAW and AI offer completely different things in my mind. I don't think of them as remotely similar and therefore I don't see them as in direct competition.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #35 on: August 8, 2016, 11:44:57 am »
Can't believe AI is still free. How does Gags (owner) pay the bills?

Website has a fair amount of advertising on it.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #36 on: August 8, 2016, 11:50:35 am »
TAW and AI offer completely different things in my mind. I don't think of them as remotely similar and therefore I don't see them as in direct competition.

There's only so many hours in the day though, personally I don't really have the time nor inclination to listen to two Liverpool podcasts. I jibbed Anfield Index a long time ago, probably around the time TAW expanded into TAW Player and thus filled more of a void.

I'd love to say I stopped listening because of a certain horrible human being on there, and he certainly contributed, but I just didn't think the standard of contributors (or indeed audio) was very high at all. It was boring listening to the same opinions on players being recycled. Some could do no wrong; some could do no right. Be arsed with that. The criticism of Rodgers crossed the line on many, many occasions as well.

When it came down to it, I was basically listening to an hour podcast just to hear Gags' (very good, if at times with limited context applied) section on pressing stats.  I'm sure it has improved since - it certainly seems to have massively expanded as well, which shows they're doing something right. Good luck to them, but it's not for me.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #37 on: August 8, 2016, 12:00:07 pm »
I listened to the Hillsborough specials with Harinder, Phil Scraton and Ade Tempany which were really good but the general football output just wasn't for me. It's about tone of voice and I simply prefer the Wrap.
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Offline John C

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #38 on: August 8, 2016, 12:04:33 pm »
I rarely miss a Desi or a Day Trippers :)

Both fun in very different ways.

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Re: The Anfield Index Thread
« Reply #39 on: August 8, 2016, 12:19:26 pm »
I listened to the Hillsborough specials with Harinder, Phil Scraton and Ade Tempany which were really good but the general football output just wasn't for me. It's about tone of voice and I simply prefer the Wrap.

Same here. I'd also add that the experiences of the TAW lads going the game, local goss, local humour and of course the raw opinions on the Pink edge the Wrap for me.