Author Topic: 2017 Formula 1 Thread  (Read 211616 times)

Offline sminp

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3360 on: October 22, 2017, 09:59:09 pm »
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 10:00:44 pm by sminp »
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3361 on: October 22, 2017, 10:07:17 pm »
Think its a slam dunk with max. Offline for overtake.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 10:24:02 pm by Hellrazor »
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3362 on: October 22, 2017, 10:09:47 pm »
I think that's a fair penalty myself. If that was me getting overtaken by someone cutting the inside of a corner with all 4 wheels off the track I'd be fucking livid.

Offline DdeGea

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3363 on: October 22, 2017, 10:26:27 pm »
Sorry can somebody explain? Was Verstappen penalised for safety reasons? How can he control having 4 wheels off the track? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3364 on: October 22, 2017, 10:37:16 pm »
Sorry can somebody explain? Was Verstappen penalised for safety reasons? How can he control having 4 wheels off the track? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

No, he very marginally cut a corner, nothing to do with safety. That’s all there was to it, the issue is that many drivers did the same thing without punishment.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3365 on: October 22, 2017, 10:39:09 pm »
No, he very marginally cut a corner, nothing to do with safety. That’s all there was to it, the issue is that many drivers did the same thing without punishment.
Ah ok thanks makes sense, just assumed the '4 wheels off the track' was a safety issue at first.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3366 on: October 22, 2017, 11:00:30 pm »
the issue, as always, is the inconsistency.

the track is the bit between the white lines. it should be more rigidly enforced.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3367 on: October 23, 2017, 12:36:57 am »
Drivers were doing it all race. It’s an insane punishment.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3368 on: October 23, 2017, 06:17:02 am »
Just watched the race and I did think he cut the corner to overtake Kimi as he did it, was wondering what the officials thought about it.

All 4 wheels were on/over the red and whites and was the only way he could gain the place, clear advantage.  Ferrari would've complained and you can't really argue against it, imo anyway.

Can't blame Max for doing it, was a good move and is pretty harsh for him.  It is what it is though.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:19:50 am by losCHUNK »

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3369 on: October 23, 2017, 09:08:48 am »
Is Bottas this bad?

Or Hamilton that good?

Or Rosberg actually much better than many (myself included) gave him credit for.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3370 on: October 23, 2017, 09:25:22 am »
Is Bottas this bad?

Or Hamilton that good?

Or Rosberg actually much better than many (myself included) gave him credit for.


I think it’s a mixture of all 3 to be honest, Hamilton is very good, Rosberg better then people gave him credit for and Bottas is pretty poor.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3371 on: October 23, 2017, 09:28:17 am »
even with the 5 second penalty verstappen is only one second behind kimi. Kimi must have had a problem!

I think it’s a mixture of all 3 to be honest, Hamilton is very good, Rosberg better then people gave him credit for and Bottas is pretty poor.
his form is very poor. first half the of the season he was very good.

he isnt that far behind vettel but given his poor form he should be ahead of him given ferrari have blown it recently.

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Offline classycarra

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3372 on: October 23, 2017, 09:43:48 am »
even with the 5 second penalty verstappen is only one second behind kimi. Kimi must have had a problem!


They said on C4 he just slowly went round the last corner. Expect it was more that he couldn't be fucked, luckily didn't bite him on the arse!

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3373 on: October 23, 2017, 09:53:35 am »
Decent race, some really good midfield action and watching Verstappen carve through everyone.

Merc breeze to the constructors, even with Bottas having another underwhelming outing. The strategy didnt help him much but even with that he put himself in that position because it took him 12 odd laps to get up to speed, while Hamilton had already passed Vettel and was building a gap of 3 or 4 seconds. James Alison was doing his best to stick up for him, but for me this was nearly as bad as Malaysia where he was a very distant 5th, he just looked poor. Had one good battle with Ricciardo but lost out to Kimi and then had his pants pulled down by Vettel, eventually having to pit with a few laps to go. We know the Merc had the pace, Hamilton just controlled the pace at every stage, not even worrying when Vettel had the better launch and led into turn 1. Ran in the dirty air, made the DRS move, and that was it (bar a very close call in the first pit stop). His title would be wrapped up if Bottas were a better wingman in one or two races. On to Mexico, he just needs a 5th place finish.

The call on Max is technically the right one, he goes out of bounds for a second and in doing so has the positioning to make the move stick, but in terms of how it looks, dragging the most exciting driver in the race from the podium is absolute bullshit. Max was right in how he responded, pointing out how you can run over the white lines everywhere, in all the sessions and its fine, but then he gets punished. The lack of consistency is so infuriating and I just think its a shit call to make in that situation.

Sainz had a really strong debut, him and Hulkenberg are going to have a fantastic battle next season.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3374 on: October 23, 2017, 10:35:40 am »
But it is consistent. If you leave the bounds of the track on a qualifying lap, the time does not count. If you overtake whilst leaving the bounds of the track, you have to give the place back or get a penalty.  At other times some leeway is given - although if you did it every lap, you would get a message from race control to stop doing it. Not getting too stressed about it when it does not really matter is a sensible compromise.  Far better than getting anal about it all the time - because that is the only way the balance will shift.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3375 on: October 23, 2017, 10:40:30 am »
But it is consistent. If you leave the bounds of the track on a qualifying lap, the time does not count. If you overtake whilst leaving the bounds of the track, you have to give the place back or get a penalty.  At other times some leeway is given - although if you did it every lap, you would get a message from race control to stop doing it. Not getting too stressed about it when it does not really matter is a sensible compromise.  Far better than getting anal about it all the time - because that is the only way the balance will shift.

I totally disagree with that.

If you tell all the drivers not to exceed track limits and enforce it every time then it's simple, transparent and everyone knows where they stand.

Drivers are ALWAYS trying to gain an advantage. As they should do.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3376 on: October 23, 2017, 10:46:39 am »
They said on C4 he just slowly went round the last corner. Expect it was more that he couldn't be fucked, luckily didn't bite him on the arse!
i read his post race comments and he said pretty much he was very pissed off he lost 3rd. i noticed him trundling over the line. i think after he passed bottas he got a radio warning about fuel?

as you say though id imagine when max past him he kinda went "bwaogh FUCK IT"

he didnt have a clue verstappen went off track

kimi deserved a podium anyway. if it wasnt for team orders he was second unless he ran out of fuel. ferrari maybe hoped for a safety car
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3377 on: October 23, 2017, 11:01:40 am »
Not sure why people are annoyed about the Max Kimi decision. He went off the track to pass. Simple as that. As Hamilton says put some grass there this new generation of drivers would soon stop that nonsense.

Also have a feeling Jos Verstappen is going to be the annoying dad for years to come.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:03:54 am by clinical »
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3378 on: October 23, 2017, 11:20:12 am »
Not sure why people are annoyed about the Max Kimi decision. He went off the track to pass. Simple as that. As Hamilton says put some grass there this new generation of drivers would soon stop that nonsense.

Also have a feeling Jos Verstappen is going to be the annoying dad for years to come.
as i said last night it was a slam dunk as brundle would say

and ive a right to be pissed given that cost me 45 quid but it was a fair decision
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Offline clinical

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3379 on: October 23, 2017, 02:51:13 pm »
as i said last night it was a slam dunk as brundle would say

and ive a right to be pissed given that cost me 45 quid but it was a fair decision

Yeah personally don't understand it. If it wasn't for 3rd/last lap i doubt they would have kicked up a fuss.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3380 on: October 23, 2017, 03:13:47 pm »
Such a weird track with the banked corners and undulating straights. Looked fun to drive though.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3381 on: October 23, 2017, 03:31:35 pm »
Besides maybe half a dozen over takes that mattered that was as dull a race as I can recall. How I stayed awake in the middle after a hearty roast chicken dinner is a mystery for the ages!

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3382 on: October 23, 2017, 03:33:10 pm »
I think the only way to rescue F1 is to have some sort of Mario Kart style system with turtles, mushrooms, stars, lightening etc...

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3383 on: October 23, 2017, 03:33:49 pm »
even with the 5 second penalty verstappen is only one second behind kimi. Kimi must have had a problem!
 his form is very poor. first half the of the season he was very good.

he isnt that far behind vettel but given his poor form he should be ahead of him given ferrari have blown it recently.



Yeah, he started the season quite close to Hamilton but the second half of the season has been embarrassing for Bottas.

The thing to add though is that Hamilton was quite clearly managing his pace yesterday, I think he could have pulled away from Vettel and the rest had he needed or wanted to, so the gap between Hamilton and Bottas if anything flattered Bottas.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3384 on: October 23, 2017, 03:36:42 pm »
Besides maybe half a dozen over takes that mattered that was as dull a race as I can recall. How I stayed awake in the middle after a hearty roast chicken dinner is a mystery for the ages!

I thought it would be boring from lap 25 onwards as it looked like everyone was one stopping. The second round of pit stops made it a pretty entertaining race for me, Vettel overtaking Bottas and then Verstappen and Kimi made it a decent second half of the race.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3385 on: October 23, 2017, 03:50:29 pm »
think the tyres should be made less durable next year

it did get very dull around the middle
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3386 on: October 23, 2017, 03:55:07 pm »
think the tyres should be made less durable next year

it did get very dull around the middle

But do you want to go back to the "cannot push - tyres" era of tyre management? The tyres must be durable enough to race.

Under the pick your own tyre regime next season,  it could get livelier.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3387 on: October 23, 2017, 03:57:38 pm »
But do you want to go back to the "cannot push - tyres" era of tyre management? The tyres must be durable enough to race.

Under the pick your own tyre regime next season,  it could get livelier.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3388 on: October 23, 2017, 04:05:36 pm »
Tyre grades A to G. Teams pick 3 for a weekend. No Pirelli picks any more.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3389 on: October 23, 2017, 04:13:47 pm »
Tyre grades A to G. Teams pick 3 for a weekend. No Pirelli picks any more.
Do they all get the same tyre or each team chooses their own for the weekend?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3390 on: October 23, 2017, 04:15:18 pm »
Ted Kravitz mentioned it in his post-qualifying notebook, but I cannot find it documented.

I understood it as the teams get free choice, but can only have 3 grades.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3391 on: October 23, 2017, 04:34:10 pm »
Fuel, engine and tyre management (in terms of backing off or coasting) should be a thing of the past. They should be 100% flat out for the whole thing.

They also need to address the whole aero package to actually allow overtaking. I would guess non-drs overtakes account for less than a quarter (in race). They need to do more to get teams racing.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3392 on: October 23, 2017, 04:37:04 pm »
Tyre grades A to G. Teams pick 3 for a weekend. No Pirelli picks any more.
7 grades?

at the minutes its ultra, super, soft, medium and hard i think

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3393 on: October 23, 2017, 04:47:49 pm »
7 grades?

at the minutes its ultra, super, soft, medium and hard i think



Might be 7 including inters and wets. Otherwise its a bit mad to have 7 various compounds, plus wet tyres.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3394 on: October 23, 2017, 05:04:10 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i54z2NLwEOM

Barking notebook, but the relevant bit is at 19:08.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3395 on: October 23, 2017, 05:18:01 pm »
Might be 7 including inters and wets. Otherwise its a bit mad to have 7 various compounds, plus wet tyres.
yeah it does sound a bit much alright

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3396 on: October 23, 2017, 09:41:40 pm »
Proper racing circuit that ....

Some maginifcent sections to it....

The fast esses, the phenomenal blind left handed first corner...  brilliant stuff.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3397 on: October 23, 2017, 11:21:42 pm »
think the tyres should be made less durable next year

it did get very dull around the middle

Couldn’t think of a worse idea, was fucking awful when the tires constantly went off and no one ever pushed.

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3398 on: October 24, 2017, 09:19:37 am »
Couldn’t think of a worse idea, was fucking awful when the tires constantly went off and no one ever pushed.
all you get now is one stop races though. no real variance in strategy most of the time
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 Thread
« Reply #3399 on: October 24, 2017, 10:31:17 am »
What Pirelli need to do is have more tyre testing on proper 2018 cars

The 2017 (and 2018) tyre compounds have been extrapolated from a 'dummy' F1 cars with expected downforce, areo package etc. It means Pirelli are guessing what each compound of tyre should be. It's a fine line between both arguments. You want full on racing with tyres that degrade.

There has to be some form of tyre management in races. The GP just gone was probably the 1st I've seen in a long time where teams had vastly different tyre strategies involving 3 types of tyres. We need more of that.

I know different tracks are more suited to that kind of strategy but it's a fine line

Looks like 2018 will look to increase those stupid penalty for new parts. Teams will be limited to only 2 MGU-Ks all season and 3 internal combustion engines, turbochargers and MGU-Hs.