Topic: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas

[Graham Smith]

Any idea on how they'll actually check that the person walking into the stadium is actually the named person on the card?

They’re not. This is about tidying up the ownership of tickets etc

[Always_A_Red]

A lot discussed on here is highlighting why hanging on to credits is skewing the system. The people who all share the cards round in groups will get 19 games a season on them. When realistically each of the people should have their own membership and have say 3 / 4 games each. This then puts that card in the pot for the 13+ sale each year and guarantees a ticket for every game. That shouldn't be the case. It's exactly why the person who attends the game should be getting the credit.

No they shouldn't. I have 19 PL on my card. On the 2-3 occasions in a season I am unable to go, my uncle takes my place. He doesn't qualify for the tickets and would never have been able to go if it wasn't for me and the fact I have regularly going for 10+ years. He doesn't want or need the credit. It will serve him no purpose to have 2 or 3 games on his card as he will still be in the free-for-all sale where for the past 4 years, he has tried to get tickets and has ended up with none in the members bulk sales.

[Always_A_Red]

They’re not. This is about tidying up the ownership of tickets etc

So checks wont be made at the turnstiles? I've already witnessed this happening from the last quarter of last season and there are stories of people having their memberships confiscated already because they have passed it to a mate and not let the club know.

Can you please confirm this? I don't see how all of this system works the way it's intended to if the club don't then follow up and check on the turnstile who is actually attending.

[courty61]

No they shouldn't. I have 19 PL on my card. On the 2-3 occasions in a season I am unable to go, my uncle takes my place. He doesn't qualify for the tickets and would never have been able to go if it wasn't for me and the fact I have regularly going for 10+ years. He doesn't want or need the credit. It will serve him no purpose to have 2 or 3 games on his card as he will still be in the free-for-all sale where for the past 4 years, he has tried to get tickets and has ended up with none in the members bulk sales.

But you must see in this instance your Uncle has jumped the queue?!

Going back to the main issue for tickets for me. It's not fair and its more "who you know".

[Always_A_Red]

But you must see in this instance your Uncle has jumped the queue?!

Going back to the main issue for tickets for me. It's not fair and its more "who you know".

But with the new system, he will still be able to attend as I will put him on my friends/family list....

[Barry Banana]

No they shouldn't. I have 19 PL on my card. On the 2-3 occasions in a season I am unable to go, my uncle takes my place. He doesn't qualify for the tickets and would never have been able to go if it wasn't for me and the fact I have regularly going for 10+ years. He doesn't want or need the credit. It will serve him no purpose to have 2 or 3 games on his card as he will still be in the free-for-all sale where for the past 4 years, he has tried to get tickets and has ended up with none in the members bulk sales.

The point is that if you only go to 16 games you should only have 16 credits. It’s not about whether your uncle would benefit from the other three.

[Barry Banana]

But with the new system, he will still be able to attend as I will put him on my friends/family list....

So it’s a case of who you know for him.

[davidsteventon]

So checks wont be made at the turnstiles? I've already witnessed this happening from the last quarter of last season and there are stories of people having their memberships confiscated already because they have passed it to a mate and not let the club know.

Can you please confirm this? I don't see how all of this system works the way it's intended to if the club don't then follow up and check on the turnstile who is actually attending.

This is also a good point,

At the moment we have read and heard about checking at the turnstiles and taking cards off people - who then have to contact to prove they own the card etc.

Yet we're also saying here that we will not be checking for this.

So are the checks stopping for the time being then?

[courty61]

But with the new system, he will still be able to attend as I will put him on my friends/family list....

But then if they give him the credit....

Will also mean that he'll (I assume) have to have a membership card and a membership. So we wont get multiple people going (credit hunting) on 1 membership.

That is obviously further down the track but you must see that the whole ticketing system is broke at the moment??

[Always_A_Red]

The point is that if you only go to 16 games you should only have 16 credits. It’s not about whether your uncle would benefit from the other three.

But that will not be the case.

So it's a case of who you know for him.

As long as the club allows a friends and family list in a small allocation of instances, yes. But people thinking that by stopping someone like me from passing a ticket to my uncle will give them a better opportunity to get a ticket it deluded and hugely naïve.

Unless the club say that there's no option to transfer a ticket under any circumstances, this will be the case. With the way that tickets are sold so far in advance, with sometimes no idea on when the game will be played, it's impossible for them to do this.

I think people need to take a step back and think about what they want to achieve from this. For me, there's a lot of emphasis on genuine fans and sharing cards amongst mates when it should be the people with 20 cards, selling them to different people every game for serious profits & not attending themselves at all.

Like others have said, I genuinely believe that the people who will suffer the most are the genuine fans, and the touts (with the rings and pools of people that are in these organised operations) will sweep up any new tickets available.

[davidsteventon]

Passing to friends and family...

Will the other person get a credit?
Will they first of all have to meet the sales criteria? So if it was Everton and sold out on 4 - would they need 4?

[davidsteventon]

And...
Will we see a new issue, of thousands on 1,2 or 3 credits who can then easily build up. Will it create a new issue?

[Barrowred]

On the subject of one of your friends and family getting the credit, what if a person is on a few peoples F & F. If they get credited with every game they attend they could fairly easily get up to 13 credits in one season which isn't currently possible for a new member.
You can guarantee that if it's possible people will do it.

[davidsteventon]

Passing to friends and family...

Will the other person get a credit?
Will they first of all have to meet the sales criteria? So if it was Everton and sold out on 4 - would they need 4?

Because when you think about it, this is the same as the current passing a spare to a mate.
It's really no different. We just now know 'officially' who the other person is. (And reduce the credits of the person sharing).

So they've still jumped the queue. Unless there is a pre-req?

[davidsteventon]

On the subject of one of your friends and family getting the credit, what if a person is on a few peoples F & F. If they get credited with every game they attend they could fairly easily get up to 13 credits in one season which isn't currently possible for a new member.
You can guarantee that if it's possible people will do it.

I know a lad who had a STH but gave it up about 10 years ago to a friend. I still see him at nearly every game on a spare. He could be on 19 in a year from friends and family without even trying.

[scouser102002]

Changing the name to my niece or other family members using the cards? I thought that was what it’s for to have the right name on the card who goes the majority of games and the friends and family system for the rest? May as well not bother changing it  them otherwise and not give the club a photo I.d., no way of knowing what anybody looks like without it.

If you don't give photo ID then the card stops working and you don't buy tickets.

[Graham Smith]

So checks wont be made at the turnstiles? I've already witnessed this happening from the last quarter of last season and there are stories of people having their memberships confiscated already because they have passed it to a mate and not let the club know.

Can you please confirm this? I don't see how all of this system works the way it's intended to if the club don't then follow up and check on the turnstile who is actually attending.

No one has lost their card for passing onto a mate.

[RainbowFlick]

Ultimately they will track empty seats not being used and will take cards off non attenders. On average there are 2000 empty seats 15 minutes in to every game. Over 1500 people did not turn up for Barca at home last season.

This is one area they want to look at. Bayern for instance take your ST off you if you miss three home games per season (or rather our seat is empty) - not suggesting LFC will go that far.

Those are insane numbers. Especially Barcelona.

[scouser102002]

Bet your life some of those not bothering to go Barcelona and other games are also the ones moaning about missing out on auto-cup as well

[Hightown Phil]

But that will not be the case.

Eventually it will.

If you don't go, there should be no credit because that's literally the point of credits.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

No one has lost their card for passing onto a mate.

i think the issue is that the mate was denied getting into the match

[Hij]

Eventually it will.

If you don't go, there should be no credit because that's literally the point of credits.

Exactly.

[daindan]

The quicker e-tickets are introduced for normal season tickets the better. So you can pass a ticket to a mate through a similar portal us corporates have. That way the club know where the tickets going. I think the difference in the clubs thinking a member buying tickets is expected to go to every game hence they buy the ticket. A season ticket is slightly different

[scouser102002]

Eventually it will.

If you don't go, there should be no credit because that's literally the point of credits.

And the argument that if you miss one game you drop off the ladder, well that won’t be the case if credits worked absolutely correctly because the thresholds would decrease

[Hightown Phil]

And the argument that if you miss one game you drop off the ladder, well that won’t be the case if credits worked absolutely correctly because the thresholds would decrease

Correct. If you drop down from 19 to 14 then. . . you'll be fine.

I've also realised why the sale to members seemed fuller in July. People are effectively getting credits for using other people's season tickets via the re-sale. So someone might got from 10 to 13 without using members sale tickets, and then buying members sale tickets with said credits.

[Hij]

Correct. If you drop down from 19 to 14 then. . . you'll be fine.

I've also realised why the sale to members seemed fuller in July. People are effectively getting credits for using other people's season tickets via the re-sale. So someone might got from 10 to 13 without using members sale tickets, and then buying members sale tickets with said credits.

Yes, this makes sense mate. It definitely felt like there was a lot less for the 4+ sales than in previous years- so much so that so that they should probably have put the 4+ up to a different number.

[willss]

I'm still unclear about how the transfers of names are going to work.  Only information off the club is to fill in that form.  There's no way I'm filling that form in when I'm unsure what the next steps will be.  If the transfer has to occur at Anfield then I suspect that won't be possible.

My youngest lad has been using another lads membership for the last 3 seasons for PL home games.  He also has his own card with cup homes and the odd cup away.  My current thinking is that I transfer (if I can) the PL home card into my daughters name and he keeps his own cup credits.  I'm nervous that will cause issues when the family and friends is brought in. 

[Campioni 84]

That is doable.

One further point Graham I knew the lad I got the season ticket off 16 years ago & once an Amnesty was mooted I & others who knew him tried to trace him to no avail. He worked at sea so could literally be anywhere. As confident as I can be that as I can prove through my purchase history for the last 16 years I should be ok for the name change.

[hawkwind]

Anyone who has successfully uploaded your ID, was your photo in portrait or landscape.
I've had 3 failed attempts now in portrait.
I can't see how I can make it a better or clearer photo.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[D🐶G]

Anyone who has successfully uploaded your ID, was your photo in portrait or landscape.
I've had 3 failed attempts now in portrait.
I can't see how I can make it a better or clearer photo.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

I’ve still had no communication from the club regarding this. Has anyone else? If not, is it not worth waiting until we’ve actually received that communication? After all, it says on the website that it’ll be live from Monday, does it not?

[Always_A_Red]

No one has lost their card for passing onto a mate.

Fair enough, you know more than me. That's not the point though is it. I asked you if there was going to be turnstile checks as you have suggested there wont be, but you have just said that cards have been confiscated because checks have been made. Which one is it please?

[Always_A_Red]

Eventually it will.

If you don't go, there should be no credit because that's literally the point of credits.

Well they should change the way in which tickets are sold then and not sell 9-10 games in July and November, 5 months in advance, with no confirmation of the fixture date and time. The club are happy to take millions of pounds off fans at these points in the season for tickets, along with the same for memberships, yet expect people to be able to not experience problems when these fixture date changes occur?

I think it's bullshit that you're suggesting that I should pay for a ticket 5 months in advance, then if I'm unable to attend because of an event out of my control that the credit be passed on to someone who hasn't got any credits. I'd rather have the money sat in my bank account instead, but the club do it in bulk to suit them, so we go with it. There's no conspiracy or credit hunting going on here, it's just simply the way in which people have to buy tickets with no idea when the games are going to be played, so far in advance. There has to be some recognition of the fact that people have lives, work, family etc and there has to be an element of flexibility surely? Again, all I see if the general genuine fan losing out.

[davidsteventon]

The bulk sales suit most though. I have the members sales (3 days, sometimes 4, then auto cup 1 day, then euro aways so in a good year 6 plus the final 1. Then sometimes a cup like community shield Or leaf he cup final or fa semi. So I’m already dodging work on multiple occasions so couldn’t add in another 15 or more for the league games-my job would really suffer at that point). It would suit some, not me.

You’re right though on the point I think you’re making-when you sell them ahead and the tv companies change you can’t then penalise heavily for not being able to go-that’s the friends and family which we all want to know more about.

[Always_A_Red]

The bulk sales suit most though. I have the members sales (3 days, sometimes 4, then auto cup 1 day, then euro aways so in a good year 6 plus the final 1. Then sometimes a cup like community shield Or leaf he cup final or fa semi. So I’m already dodging work on multiple occasions so couldn’t add in another 15 or more for the league games-my job would really suffer at that point). It would suit some, not me.

You’re right though on the point I think you’re making-when you sell them ahead and the tv companies change you can’t then penalise heavily for not being able to go-that’s the friends and family which we all want to know more about.

Thanks mate, at least someone gets it.

At the end of the day, I'll be fine on 16/17/18/19 anyway depending on circumstances but I do think that people are naïve if they think that by someone like me having a credit taken off them for a friend of mine going to the game, will somehow give them more opportunity for tickets. It wont.

The stadium isn't big enough. That is the main problem here. If it was 80,000 then we wouldn't have an issue. If we were a shit team again like we were under Hodgson, we wouldn't have a problem. Didn't see all of these people on here complaining about credits clamouring for a ticket back then, did you?

[Hightown Phil]

Indeed, the ground isn't big enough and there's an access problem, hence why the access shouldn't be controlled by people who can't go. If you can't go, your ticket should go back to the club and it goes on sale to the public.

[scouser102002]

Well they should change the way in which tickets are sold then and not sell 9-10 games in July and November, 5 months in advance, with no confirmation of the fixture date and time. The club are happy to take millions of pounds off fans at these points in the season for tickets, along with the same for memberships, yet expect people to be able to not experience problems when these fixture date changes occur?

I think it's bullshit that you're suggesting that I should pay for a ticket 5 months in advance, then if I'm unable to attend because of an event out of my control that the credit be passed on to someone who hasn't got any credits. I'd rather have the money sat in my bank account instead, but the club do it in bulk to suit them, so we go with it. There's no conspiracy or credit hunting going on here, it's just simply the way in which people have to buy tickets with no idea when the games are going to be played, so far in advance. There has to be some recognition of the fact that people have lives, work, family etc and there has to be an element of flexibility surely? Again, all I see if the general genuine fan losing out.

It doesn't really matter what the reason is, if you don't go, then you haven't gone. You can't expect the club to let you say you've been and have the credit when you haven't.

The people who didn't go because they weren't lucky enough to be able to get a ticket don't get a credit for trying do they? It's only the same thing if you think about it.

Buying a ticket and not going is exactly the same as not buying a ticket and not going.

If you don't go then you don't get the credit for going. Because you didn't go.

[scouser102002]

oh, and that argument about the bulk sale and buying 5 months in advance makes no sense at all.

If the sale was 2 weeks before the game, and by that time you knew you couldn't go, you wouldn't buy the ticket then would you not? Which means you wouldn't have the credit.

So why are you moaning about not getting the credit for the game just because you bought it 5 months prior?

Or are you saying if the sale was 2 weeks prior, you'd still buy the ticket knowing you couldn't go in order to get the credit?

In that sense the bulk sales actually help people credit hunt.

[ScubaSteve]

Indeed, the ground isn't big enough and there's an access problem, hence why the access shouldn't be controlled by people who can't go. If you can't go, your ticket should go back to the club and it goes on sale to the public.

Exactly right!!

As a member, if you can’t go why should you be able to pass it onto a friend or family member and keep the credit. NEEDS TO BE AN EXCHANGE OPTION FOR MEMBERS WHO PAID BUT CAN NO LONGER ATTEND

As a STH, if you can’t go it goes back on sale through the exchange. No passing it on to friends or family members

The whole passing tickets on is a load of rubbish. This the clubs chance to make it right but they’ll probably include this option and mess it up

[scouser102002]

Seeing the stories people have that have come to light through this, is there anybody who actually goes the game on their own card?

[ChrisLFCKOP]

I’ve still had no communication from the club regarding this. Has anyone else? If not, is it not worth waiting until we’ve actually received that communication? After all, it says on the website that it’ll be live from Monday, does it not?

Nothing myself, starting to get a bit worried about it all bulk sales are not far away.  Esp if you have issues and its going to take 14 days to verify.

Think I might try tomorrow.