Author Topic: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya  (Read 23143 times)

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #80 on: September 7, 2017, 02:37:01 pm »
Yes, that’s what I meant! My bad, I should have quoted just the bit I was querying.

Fair do's. I won't remove the links though. They may constitute a salutary reminder to some apologists that 'Buddhist vigilante' is not an "oxymoron."
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline zero zero

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #81 on: September 7, 2017, 06:29:19 pm »
You also seem very eager to lay the blame at Britain's door which is very revealing.
And your inability to consider that the British bear some blame for the present situation is equally revealing. Perhaps it's unfair, as the British were busy at the time making a tremendous success of Partition. Only several million dead there. I think it's fair to say that our actions and ideas were a contributing factor to what we've seen happening in our ex-colonial possessions. That doesn't take away responsibility from the Myanmar Army or the Rakhine Buddhists who are ethnic cleansing the Rohingya from "their" lands.

The more we've interacted on this subject I get the sense that you have difficulty discerning the difference between somebody articulating what they believe to be the Myanmar position and somebody who espouses it. I used to think you were unwilling to see the difference. I now think you're just unable. You've thrown about labels and accusations, which you are free to do, but I wanted to make my position clear to anybody else that might be reading.

Quote
The logic appears to be that the experience of colonialism gives succeeding generations carte blanche to behave like thugs and hoodlums if, in so doing, they are restoring some "natural" ethnic order. 
Thisis Yorky Code for "write my own narrative". You were pulled up for reducing people's posts yesterday. Today you're re-imagining them and working yourself into a state of righteous indignation in the process. I have no idea what you're playing at fella. Just take my posts as they are. They don't need to be put through the Yorky Translator.
Fair do's. I won't remove the links though. They may constitute a salutary reminder to some apologists that 'Buddhist vigilante' is not an "oxymoron."
You're absolutely right, that doesn't make any sense. It was "Buddhist Fundamentalist" that was the oxymoron. Not 'Buddhist vigilante'. That's your own creation.
Right. As I'm unfamiliar with the term "Buddhist Fundamentalist" could you share your definition? To me, it's an oxymoron.
See?

So, I'll leave this post as a salutary reminder to other posters that when you fail to provide a direct link to a quote you're being duplicitous. 

I think we're done for the day.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #82 on: September 7, 2017, 09:27:47 pm »
ZeroZero would you be condoning what is going on if the main religion wasn't buddhism?

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #83 on: September 7, 2017, 09:40:02 pm »
ZeroZero would you be condoning what is going on if the main religion wasn't buddhism?

Apparently he isn't. He's merely - what is it again? - "articulating what he believes to be the Myanmar position."

Why he feels the needs to do that I don't know. These thugs are already telling the world what they think about the Muslim minority in the country.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Geppvindh's

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2017, 05:59:40 am »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41222210?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook

Quote

"We had an audience with Colonel Phone Tint, the local minister for border security.

'Where is the proof?' he asked. 'Look at those women,' he meant the Rohingya refugees, 'who are making these claims - would anyone want to rape them?'"

Offline GBF

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2017, 06:54:23 am »
aung san suu kyi still keeping quiet so that no one take her novel prize away? Disgusting what's happening there
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2017, 11:16:48 am »
Fuck her is all I will say. Human rights hero my ass.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2017, 11:19:37 am »
Fuck her is all I will say. Human rights hero my ass.

It's a terrible end to a career and it's the thing she will ultimately be known for.
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Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #88 on: September 12, 2017, 02:48:49 pm »
Did you expect Modi of all people to do anything about it? It's fucking embarrassing that no one in that region wants to take leadership and actually sort out an issue that has been raging for a long time.
Regardless of Modi or Congress , whoever is in power in India ,will never criticize Myanmar govt .Nothing to do with political ideology.

Reality is to control the insurgency in North East , India needs the Myanmar support.Its from Myanmar where often arms and money used to be supplied when North East regularly used to suffer terrorist attacks from insurgents . India had a bad relation with them due to supporting
 Aung san suu kyi and hence Myanmar simply turned a blind eye. And after she was released ,India repaired its relation with Myanmar junta after which they acted against Militant insurgents working from Burma.

It's shameful that India is keeping its mouth shut off the ethnic cleansing happening in Myanmar but reality is regardless of which Govt is in power ,the position would have remained the same because of the situation in NE.
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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #89 on: September 12, 2017, 02:55:33 pm »
It's a terrible end to a career and it's the thing she will ultimately be known for.
I do find it very tiresome was that stripping her of her Nobel prize seems to be the main focus of many commentators as opposed to finding ways to resolve this conflict. Not denying that she shouldn't be allowed to keep it but people should be thinking of ways we can stop this senseless slaughter rather than grandiose, symbolic gestures. Take it off her after people stop being murdered and expelled.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2017, 10:24:01 pm »
I do find it very tiresome was that stripping her of her Nobel prize seems to be the main focus of many commentators as opposed to finding ways to resolve this conflict. Not denying that she shouldn't be allowed to keep it but people should be thinking of ways we can stop this senseless slaughter rather than grandiose, symbolic gestures. Take it off her after people stop being murdered and expelled.
I understand what you are saying, but sometimes symbolism is a powerful thing in its own right. Stripping her of that award draws attention. Maybe the kind of attention she doesn't want and could be a catalyst in stopping what's going on. The more eyes on her and her government, the better.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2017, 12:18:37 pm »

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2017, 01:43:08 pm »
Good article in New York Times about the age-old persecution of the Rohingya in Burma.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/world/asia/myanmar-rohingya-muslim.html

Analysts have said that it would be politically difficult for Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi to denounce the crackdown, given the military’s political power and the unpopularity of the Rohingya among the country’s Buddhists. Her critics say she has a moral obligation to speak out, and some have called for her Nobel to be withdrawn.
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Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2017, 04:39:43 am »
How did the Rohingya become such a persecuted minority?

We have to take a step back in history during the Second World War. Myanmar, then called Burma, was under British colonial rule. When the Japanese invaded Burma, the majority Buddhist population sided with the Japanese invaders, including current leader Aung San Suu Kyi’s father, General Aung San, who was one of the founding generals of Myanmar. They sided with the Japanese invaders because they believed Japan would be victorious in the war, and they would expel the British colonial masters. The Rohingya minority, on the other hand, stayed loyal to the British, so that when the war was over, and the British were victorious, there was bad blood. The Rohingya was seen as the enemy.

> And those grievances persisted?

> Myanmar became independent in 1948, and the British colonialists left. The country had a relatively peaceful couple of decades until 1962. In 1962, there was a military coup by the army chief of staff General Ne Win. When he came to power, he implemented a program called “The Burmese Road to Socialism.” It’s essentially a communist manifesto. It was a complete and utter economic disaster. So he did what a lot of military dictators do in that situation: tried to find a scapegoat to blame the economic failure on.
>
> So the Rohingya became that scapegoat.

> The Rohingya was the minority of choice for this. They’re the largest ethnic minority in Myanmar. They look different. They have different features. They are a different color. They speak a different language. And they have a different religion. They had already been scapegoated as the enemy within, and now [the country] could blame all the ills of society on them.
>
> On top of that, General Ne Win did what we see a lot of Middle Eastern dictators do today, in that he donned the cloak of religiosity. When things start going wrong, they start becoming more religious, going to the mosque, be seen praying, et cetera. Ne Win did exactly the same thing. He became much more overtly Buddhist. The military then started fulfilling the obligations of Theravada Buddhism, the Buddhism that Burma follows. He made Buddhism the state religion of Burma. The Buddhist citizens could be loyal citizens, but everybody else was a noncitizen.
>
> So Buddhism became somewhat weaponized, as strange as that sounds, during this period?

> One of the questions that gets asked most often is, aren’t Buddhists peaceful people? But the Buddhism they follow in Myanmar, it’s not the Buddhism you and I are familiar with. They don’t recognize the Dalai Lama, for example. Theravada Buddhism is actually very militant. They believe all other ideologies and religions have to be kept in check, and have to be suppressed in order for Buddhism to thrive.
>
> How did this elevation of Buddhism in the military play out in practice?

> The military passed a number of laws, including the 1974 Emergency Immigration Act, and all the Rohingya were stripped of their citizenship. That was followed by the 1982 Citizenship Law, which said all Rohingya are actually foreigners; they’re actually all illegal immigrants who have come from Bangladesh, and they should all go back to Bangladesh.
>
> Go back to Bangladesh?

> This is the most common narrative. It’s been repeated so often in Myanmar that it’s actually accepted now as fact. Bizarrely, they put a date on it: They say in March 1942, the term Rohingya was manufactured by these illegal immigrants from Bangladesh to give themselves a false identity, and that before 1942, the term Rohingya did not exist. Which is patently false.
>
> One of the things I said in my book is that I went to the Indian National Archives in New Delhi, and I dug up documents from the British colonial period, some of them dating back to 1799, 1826, and 1824, which is when the British had done a census of that whole region. It clearly states that one in three souls in that region are “Musulmans” of Rohingya origin. The term existed back in 1799. So this idea that it’s a manufactured term, and these people are illegal, is false. The historical record shows they’ve been there for centuries.
>
> But the monks and the military pushed this paranoid narrative that the Rohingya came here to destroy the Buddhist heritage. Today, you have some extremist groups and other religious Buddhist groups that are calling for the Rohingya to be eliminated.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/what-the-hell-is-happening-in-myanmar.html

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Offline Purple Red

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2017, 09:26:47 am »
That's fascinating stuff, BeautifulGame91. I've learnt something new today. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2017, 10:59:28 am »
That article also shows the danger of scapegoating. Be interesting to hear the opinion of the resident apologist for the genocide but they are no doubt in hiding.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2017, 03:12:14 pm »
That article also shows the danger of scapegoating. Be interesting to hear the opinion of the resident apologist for the genocide but they are no doubt in hiding.
My opinion is that being passive-aggressive is very unmanly. Also, try to write your own material.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:14:37 pm by zero zero »

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2017, 04:00:33 pm »
My opinion is that being passive-aggressive is very unmanly. Also, try to write your own material.

Why is being manly an important factor for you in a debate? Do you know for sure if gqP6w is actually a man? If she's a woman should she debate like a man? Feels like you're posting from the 1970s.

(Apologies in advance if my post isn't macho enough for you ;) )

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2017, 04:04:13 pm »
Why is being manly an important factor for you in a debate? Do you know for sure if gqP6w is actually a man? If she's a woman should she debate like a man? Feels like you're posting from the 1970s.

(Apologies in advance if my post isn't macho enough for you ;) )

Seems like gqP6w started the shit talking...

Be interesting to hear the opinion of the resident apologist for the genocide but they are no doubt in hiding.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2017, 04:06:10 pm »
Seems like gqP6w started the shit talking...


Not blaming anyone for starting the handbags, just found the use of the word "unmanly" interesting in 2017.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2017, 05:23:25 pm »
How did the Rohingya become such a persecuted minority?

We have to take a step back in history during the Second World War.
That's convenient. Apparently, according to the author, nothing of significance happened during colonial times that might possibly have a bearing on what we're seeing today.

Quote
British Burma (1824–1948)
The British used mainly Indian and Gurkha troops to conquer and pacify the country. In a divide-and-rule manoeuvre, the British enforced their rule in the province of Burma mainly with Indian troops later joined by indigenous military units of three indigenous ethnic minorities: Karens, Kachins and Chins. The British did not trust the Burmese. Before 1937, with few exceptions, no Burmese were allowed to serve in the military.

At the beginning of World War I, the only indigenous military regiment in the British India army, the 70th Burma Rifles, consisted of three battalions, made up of Karens, Kachins and Chins. During the war, the British relaxed the ban, raising a Burmese battalion in the 70th Burma Rifles, a Burmese company in the 85th Burma Rifles, and seven Burmese Mechanical Transport companies. In addition, three companies of Burma Sappers and Miners, made up of mostly Burmese, and a company of Labour Corps, made up of Chins and Burmese, were also raised. All these units began their overseas assignment in 1917. The 70th Burma Rifles served in Egypt for garrison duties while the Burmese Labour Corps served in France. One company of Burma Sappers and Miners distinguished themselves in Mesopotamia at the crossing the Tigris.

After the war, the British stopped recruiting Burmese, and discharged all but one Burmese companies had been abolished by 1925. The last Burmese company of Burma Sappers and Miners too was disbanded in 1929. The British used Indian and ethnic minority dominated troops to ruthlessly put down ethnic majority dominated rebellions such as Saya San's peasant rebellion in 1930–1931. These policies would lead to long-term negative tensions among the country's ethnic groups. On 1 April 1937, Burma was made a separate colony, and Burmese were now eligible to join the army. But few Burmese bothered to join. Before World War II began, the British Burma Army consisted of Karen (27.8%), Chin (22.6%), Kachin (22.9%), and Burmese 12.3%, without counting their British officer corps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatmadaw#British_Burma_.281824.E2.80.931948.29

Quote
So Buddhism became somewhat weaponized, as strange as that sounds, during this period?

One of the questions that gets asked most often is, aren’t Buddhists peaceful people? But the Buddhism they follow in Myanmar, it’s not the Buddhism you and I are familiar with. They don’t recognize the Dalai Lama, for example. Theravada Buddhism is actually very militant. They believe all other ideologies and religions have to be kept in check, and have to be suppressed in order for Buddhism to thrive.
That's quite the claim, with not a shred of evidence. I'd love to see the Pali texts which such a "belief" is based on.

It seems to me a mis-representation of a non-proselytizing religion. Here's the Dalai Lama on the subject:
Quote
Dalai Lama Criticizes Proselytizing
Stepping into one of the hottest religious controversies in South Asia, the Dalai Lama today joined Hindu leaders in condemning the Muslim and Christian practice of proselytizing.

Hindus and Buddhists generally do not proselytize.

"Whether Hindu or Muslim or Christian, whoever tries to convert, it's wrong, not good," the Dalai Lama said after a meeting with the leaders. "I always believe it's safer and better and reasonable to keep one's own tradition or belief."

The Dalai Lama and others signed a statement saying: "We oppose conversions by any religious tradition using various methods of enticement."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81617&page=1

Back on topic, here's a list of countries or regions that have suffered post-war conflicts or civil war and let's see if "militant Theravada Buddhism" (whatever that may be) is the commonn denominator; Palestine, India (partion of), Ireland/Northern Ireland, South Africa, Uganda, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and Myanmar.
Seems like gqP6w started the shit talking...
Oh, was that in reference to me? I was just stating my opinion.

gqP6w

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2017, 06:56:46 pm »
My opinion is that being passive-aggressive is very unmanly.
Unmanly? Isn't your response also passive aggressive? Or are you just misogynist?

Also, try to write your own material.
What are you talking about, I didn't realise I had to right chapter and verse on why I agree with the article that shows what scapegoating can do.

OK I've asked you this question before but you have chosen not to answer it, despite criticising another poster for not answering a question, if the predominant religion in the county wasn't Buddhism, the religion you claim to follow, would your attitude to the genocide be different?

Back on topic, here's a list of countries or regions that have suffered post-war conflicts or civil war and let's see if "militant Theravada Buddhism" (whatever that may be) is the commonn denominator; Palestine, India (partion of), Ireland/Northern Ireland, South Africa, Uganda, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and Myanmar.
Lets see, Palestine: religion, Partition of India: religion, Ireland/N Ireland: political & religion, South Africa: race, Uganda: political/tribal, Kenya: tribal, Zimbabwe: race, Sri Lanka: political/race and finally Myanmar: religion.

So in your list of examples religion IS a common denominator in most. As for militant surely attacking other people is an example of being militant, so if someone who follows theravada buddism is engaged in actions that can be described as militant... Well you can see how such a term comes about.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2017, 10:53:36 pm »
Ireland/N Ireland: political & religion

It's worth reminding ourselves of the vast difference between Protestant and Catholic faiths.

Catholics are very fond of the Virgin Mary. Protestants are kind of, meh.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #103 on: September 20, 2017, 10:26:21 am »
It's worth reminding ourselves of the vast difference between Protestant and Catholic faiths.

Catholics are very fond of the Virgin Mary. Protestants are kind of, meh.

;D Profound!

Dalai Lama Criticizes Proselytizing
Stepping into one of the hottest religious controversies in South Asia, the Dalai Lama today joined Hindu leaders in condemning the Muslim and Christian practice of proselytizing.

Hindus and Buddhists generally do not proselytize.

"Whether Hindu or Muslim or Christian, whoever tries to convert, it's wrong, not good," the Dalai Lama said after a meeting with the leaders. "I always believe it's safer and better and reasonable to keep one's own tradition or belief."

The Dalai Lama and others signed a statement saying: "We oppose conversions by any religious tradition using various methods of enticement."

I was interested in this, as someone not remotely familiar. Without wider context the first sentence makes clear his view on proselytising, but the second made me wonder if he was against conversion full stop.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #104 on: September 20, 2017, 10:34:24 am »
;D Profound!

I was interested in this, as someone not remotely familiar. Without wider context the first sentence makes clear his view on proselytising, but the second made me wonder if he was against conversion full stop.

Her forgot the Jews. They don't proselytise either.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #105 on: September 29, 2017, 05:26:30 pm »

Unmanly? Isn't your response also passive aggressive?
No. Quoting your post directly and using its contents as evidence of your unmanliness is the opposite of being passive/aggressive. Amusing how quickly you fall apart after I give you the merest prod.
Quote
Or are you just misogynist?
No, again. Just because I think the way you post makes you unmanly... it means I hate women? I don't think much of your reasoning. Your argument is substantial as your codlings. This is, of course working on the assumption you actually know what the word means. Anyway, let's throw that on the pile with the other unsubstantiated accusations.
Quote
What are you talking about, I didn't realise I had to right chapter and verse on why I agree with the article that shows what scapegoating can do.
You can, of course, agree with what you wish. I was referring to the part of your post that Corkboy quoted. It's not original.
Quote
OK I've asked you this question before but you have chosen not to answer it,
Surely you're not so unsophisticated that you're still wondering why I wouldn't answer such a loaded question?
Quote
...if the predominant religion in the county wasn't Buddhism, the religion you claim to follow, would your attitude to the genocide be different?
The above is slightly confusing so maybe it's simpler if I state my attitude to genocide?

I don't condone genocide, I condemn it. Genocide is wrong, 100% of the time. It doesn't matter who is committing the genocide. Or who is on the receiving end. It is always wrong and indefensible. I hope this clears things up.

Anyway, to your answers:
Quote
Lets see, Palestine: religion, Partition of India: religion, Ireland/N Ireland: political & religion, South Africa: race, Uganda: political/tribal, Kenya: tribal, Zimbabwe: race, Sri Lanka: political/race and finally Myanmar: religion.

So in your list of examples religion IS a common denominator in most.
A common denominator needs to be common to ALL. I know, tricky stuff.

It's painful watching the lengths you're prepared to go to not state the obvious (and correct) answer. Instead, we're subjected to seeing you floundering about, desperately trying to shoehorn in the preconceived notion you walked into the thread with. It's clear from your other answers that you're aware that there can be more than one reason for a conflict, but in the case of Myanmar, you're steadfastly listing religion as the sole cause. You're one of RAWK's flat-earthers (Yorky is another); you're absolutely certain you have  the right answer and no amount of patiently explaining that there's more to the planet than your narrow, simplistic worldview, you're unable to budge or even acknowledge there might be more to the situation than you first thought.

Here's a couple of clues as to the correct answer:
1. Palestine was sometimes called the British Mandate of Palestine at the time in question
2. The others are ex-possesions of the British Empire.

No more clues. If you still insist that religion is the sole cause of the troubles in Myanmar, it's about time, you specified them.

I don't agree with all your answers, but I only need to tackle a couple of them to make my point.
 
Uganda: political/tribal
Not sure what you're referring to. Feel free to elaborate. This is what I'm talking about:
Quote
The presence of South Asians in Uganda was the result of deliberate choices by the British administration (1894–1962).[4] They were brought to the Uganda Protectorate by the British to "serve as a buffer between Europeans and Africans in the middle rungs of commerce and administration".[3] In addition, in the 1890s, 32,000 labourers from British India were brought to Southeast Africa under indentured labour contracts to work on the construction of the Uganda Railway.

The British had invested in the education of the Asian minority, in preference to that of indigenous Ugandans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Asians_from_Uganda

Sri Lanka: political/race
A similar thing happened in British Ceylon.
Quote
Under the British Empire, English was the language of rule in Ceylon (now known as Sri Lanka). Until the passage of the Free Education Bill in 1944, education in the English language was the preserve of the subaltern elite and the ordinary people had little knowledge of it. A disproportionate number of English-language schools were located in the mostly Tamil-speaking north. Thus, English-speaking Tamils held a higher percentage of coveted Ceylon Civil Service jobs, which required English fluency, than their share of the island's population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhala_Only_Act

This is not me "blaming" the British and taking away responsibility from the government and people of Myanmar for what is happening today. I'm merely pointing out the colonial policies during British rule had a huge bearing on what's happening today.

It was not all bad. Sri Lanka had a relatively mild time under British rule when compared to British India. They did, of course, give the island tea and cricket. So, let's talk about them to stop me banging on about the British and their divide and rule policies

Tea
Tea was plucked by Indian Tamils specially brought in from Tamil Nadu for the purpose. The Britsh were;t about to leave the key export in the hands of the Kandyan peasantry who were, ungraciously, still miffed about having their land forcibly taken from them.

Cricket
Colombo Cricket Club was formed in 1832 as "a gentlemen's team for British colonists in Ceylon". It remained a Europeans-only club until 1962! As some of you may know, the current home of Sri Lanka Cricket is the SSC, or to give it its full title The Sinhalese Sports Club. They would field a team to play Moors CC, Moors being the term that was used at the time to refer to Muslims, Tamil Union, BRC (Burgher Recreation Club) and Aravinda's club NCC, Nondescripts.

So, racial segregation extended even to the cricket field at club level. It's also why, when the ships carrying the teams for the Ashes stopped by, they would play the All Ceylon team.

The idea of race itself was imported by the Europeans. The Sinhala word for race, as you might find on an official form is - jathiya - is the common word for "type". The same word you would use for describing buttons. It has no sinister overtones. "We are different buttons, but we're all still buttons". Race, on the other hand only serves to divide.

The British at the time created divided populations or exploited existing ones. What we're seeing today is the result of Empire building practices that go back centuries. Not religion. And I think accuracy is important.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #106 on: September 29, 2017, 05:29:57 pm »
;D Profound!

I was interested in this, as someone not remotely familiar. Without wider context the first sentence makes clear his view on proselytising, but the second made me wonder if he was against conversion full stop.
The important word there is "enticements". People in South Asia don't wish to see what happened in South Korea happen to their own countries. Or worse, what happened recently in Uganda.

The Dalai Lama is talking about Evangelical Christian "Aid" organisations. Like this one: https://www.worldvision.org

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #107 on: September 30, 2017, 10:29:52 am »
Its 70 years since the British left Burma. Why have the Burmese Government suddenly started ethnically cleansing the Rohingya?

Is it a case of the military elite either trying to embarrass the civilian politicians or continuing to have the need to oppress someone to justify their existence or a mixture of both?

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #108 on: September 30, 2017, 05:25:06 pm »
Its 70 years since the British left Burma. Why have the Burmese Government suddenly started ethnically cleansing the Rohingya?

Is it a case of the military elite either trying to embarrass the civilian politicians or continuing to have the need to oppress someone to justify their existence or a mixture of both?
I have no more insight as to what is happening on the ground in Myanmar than what I can glean from the Western media, but if you look at Aun San Suu Kyi - her demeanour, what she says, what she doesn't say - she looks like somebody who is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Nobel Peace Prize, the victory of democracy and the end of the military dictatorship seem, in hindsight, premature. The Myanmar military didn't go anywhere. They weren't demobilised. They are, depending on source, somewhere between the 10-14th largest military in the world - 400,00 odd from a population of 50 million.

It looks to me that if she doesn't give them a free rein to deal with the "security situation" in Rakhine State they will take matters into their own hands with regards the whole country. Police States and Military dictatorships can do pretty much what they please in the citing "National Security".

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2017, 05:38:51 pm »
It's painful watching the lengths you're prepared to go to not state the obvious (and correct) answer. Instead, we're subjected to seeing you floundering about, desperately trying to shoehorn in the preconceived notion you walked into the thread with. It's clear from your other answers that you're aware that there can be more than one reason for a conflict, but in the case of Myanmar, you're steadfastly listing religion as the sole cause. You're one of RAWK's flat-earthers (Yorky is another); you're absolutely certain you have  the right answer and no amount of patiently explaining that there's more to the planet than your narrow, simplistic worldview, you're unable to budge or even acknowledge there might be more to the situation than you first thought.
Yes because I stated that religion was the one and only cause of the trouble in Myanmar didn't I? No I didn't, I pointed out that currently religion is a huge factor in the current situation, ethnicity is also up there as a huge factor except the Rohingya are mainly all islamic and those persecuting them are mainly buddhist. So yes I should have put the main cause of the current conflict as race/religion and you can add political to that fairly easily.

Your flat-earther jibe did make me laugh, especially when you are placing the blame on all the troubles in the countries you listed on the mess the British Empire left behind and yes I do agree that this nations imperial past has played it's part in causing problems across the globe (sorry plane, forgot I think the earth is flat). Mind you placing the blame on the British Empire while failing to acknowledge other factors also involved is very flat earth thinking.

Got to go as I've got to tackle an idiot who thinks the earth moves around the sun

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2017, 06:59:12 pm »
Yes because I stated that religion was the one and only cause of the trouble in Myanmar didn't I?
Well, yes.
... and finally Myanmar: religion.
Quote
No I didn't, I pointed out that currently religion is a huge factor in the current situation, ethnicity is also up there as a huge factor except the Rohingya are mainly all islamic and those persecuting them are mainly buddhist. So yes I should have put the main cause of the current conflict as race/religion and you can add political to that fairly easily.
Nice bit of backtracking. I do feel we have made some headway today as you've finally been able to admit that even in Myanmar there can be multiple causes for the situation there.

But at the same time, you're ably demonstrating why I consider you a flat-earther. You've revised your answer to "religion is a huge factor" which is close to the answer you entered the thread with, and entirely independent of the question that was actually asked of you. I didn't ask for causes; primary, secondary or otherwise. I wasn't assigning blame. I merely asked for a common denominator between some countries.
Quote
Your flat-earther jibe did make me laugh, especially when you are placing the blame on all the troubles in the countries you listed on the mess the British Empire left behind...
Really? Even when I make unequivocal statements as I did:
This is not me "blaming" the British and taking away responsibility from the government and people of Myanmar for what is happening today.
I have to do this because otherwise I get accused of being a racist and an apologist for genocide, a misogynist and now, "blaming all the troubles" on the British Empire.
Quote
Mind you placing the blame on the British Empire while failing to acknowledge other factors also involved is very flat earth thinking.
I'm tempted to write a sentence that contains "feeble", "tragic" and "pathetic" but I'll limit myself to agreeing that yes, it would be.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2017, 08:23:47 pm »
As if Myanmar hasn't got enough problems and we send them Boris Fucking Johnson.
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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #113 on: September 30, 2017, 09:24:02 pm »
I'm not sure the past is helping anyone right now. My in-depth analysisis, based on a brief conversation with a Bangladeshi waiter in my local curry house is that Rakhine is a mineral rich state, and the Burmese would like to ship it all to China via a pipeline.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2017, 02:40:44 pm »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/world/asia/rohingya-myanmar-atrocities.html

The two main ethnic groups in her village, the Buddhist Rakhines and the Muslim Rohingya, were like two planes drawn to never touch. They followed different religions, spoke different languages, ate different foods and have always distrusted each other.

A community of Buddhists lived just a few minutes from Rajuma’s house, but she had never spoken with any of them.

“They hate us,” she said.

Azeem Ibrahim, a Scottish academic who recently wrote a book on the Rohingya, explained that much of the animosity could be traced to World War II, when the Rohingya fought on the British side and many Buddhists in Rakhine fought for the occupying Japanese. Both sides massacred civilians.

After the Allies won, the Rohingya hoped to win independence or join East Pakistan (today’s Bangladesh), which was also majority Muslim and ethnically similar to the Rohingya. But the British, eager to appease Myanmar’s Buddhist majority, decreed that the Rohingya areas would become part of newly independent Myanmar (then called Burma), setting the Rohingya up for decades of discrimination.

Myanmar’s leaders soon began stripping their rights and blaming them for the country’s shortcomings, claiming the Rohingya were illegal migrants from Bangladesh who had stolen good land.

“Year after year, they were demonized,” Mr. Ibrahim said.

Some influential Buddhist monks said the Rohingya were the reincarnation of snakes and insects and should be exterminated, like vermin.
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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2017, 02:53:17 pm »
Some influential Buddhist monks said the Rohingya were the reincarnation of snakes and insects and should be exterminated, like vermin.[/i]

It's like zero zero said. Their parents and grandparents were probably assholes, so it's fully deserved.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2017, 06:59:25 pm »
Azeem Ibrahim, a Scottish academic who recently wrote a book on the Rohingya, explained that much of the animosity could be traced to World War II, when the Rohingya fought on the British side and many Buddhists in Rakhine fought for the occupying Japanese. Both sides massacred civilians.
Still stuck here are we?

I wonder if any of you have managed to see Ken Burns documentary - The Vietnam War. For some bizarre reason, he starts it in 1858! That totally unbiased Scottish academic should tell Ken that nothing of any significance ever happens until just before the colonials pull out.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2017, 02:43:26 pm »
Like with many religions with bloodthirsty nutcases attached, once you go outside the core teachings you're not part of it anymore. ISIS aren't Islam except in their own heads, and these murderers aren't Buddhists. The Dalai Lama has said as much. Nothing in the dharma permits harming another living thing.

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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2017, 02:55:37 pm »
Like with many religions with bloodthirsty nutcases attached, once you go outside the core teachings you're not part of it anymore. ISIS aren't Islam except in their own heads, and these murderers aren't Buddhists. The Dalai Lama has said as much. Nothing in the dharma permits harming another living thing.

The No True Scotsman Fallacy.


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Re: Myanmar’s War on the Rohingya
« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2017, 02:57:58 pm »
That really isn't how that fallacy works. Take it or leave it - it's true :)

Digest it or shit on it - I don't trust your judgement over my own, and you specifically seem to want to bash religion in any form, which makes you a bigot - so bye!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-dalailama/dalai-lama-decries-buddhist-attacks-on-muslims-in-myanmar-idUSBRE9460RC20130507
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 02:59:38 pm by ToneLa »