Topic: Education Secretary Wants A Slap

[CornerFlag]

why are they closing it?

And when you say they are closing it, are they opening a new school on the same site?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/worried-parents-kept-dark-over-13240495

That's a relatively hype-free report of what is known so far.

[12C]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/worried-parents-kept-dark-over-13240495

That's a relatively hype-free report of what is known so far.

Thing is, now they have let the cat out of the bag, parents will start moving kids but more importantly the parents of those kids who are due to start in September will quite rightly now be looking elsewhere. The school will be in a downward spiral of numbers, which in turn affects budget, which reduces staff, which makes the school less attractive, which creates a downward spiral.

Even if they close, sacking all the staff, and re-open as a 'new school' the damage is done.
Delays from the Minister will only make it more chaotic. Even if they announce now that the school is not closing, parents will be very cautious about sending their kids there

[TepidT2O]

Spot on that..

[12C]

Spot on that..

Seen it happen mate. you can't blame parents for not sending their kids to a school that looks like it's half empty and about to close. One of the side effects of so called parental choice (or 'preference' as he politicos call it)

[12C]

Heard an article on lunchtime radio, Angela Eagle MP saying she will be meeting minister next month, but in the meantime only rumours to go on. Saying that current parents and those of children allocated the school for September are worrying about whether to buy uniforms etc. The Academy Trust issued a statement saying it was up to the minister to decide, but went on about rising PFI costs and falling numbers.
Looks like a decision won't happen til next month.

[CornerFlag]

There's some stats here about pupil numbers:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/local-news/the-kingsway-academy-7539939

They've been declining for a while, as has the ranking of the school.  It's never been the best-ranking school or even close to it but it's just been run into the ground as of late (plus a couple of scandals involving former teachers).

[۩ Imperator ۩]

They're closing an academy local to me, I went there too.  Used to be the Wallasey School.  Never a high-achieving school but one that's vital to the local community.

I did my first teaching practice in Wallasey School in my PGCE year back in 2005. It was a school with a very deprived intake but one which always did the best by its pupils. The school had a very caring community and the staff were absolutely wonderful there (including, incidentally, one of those implicated in a scandal a few years back - I would fight his corner anywhere, anytime). It always struck me in this place that it was a place where people could thrive. Nowadays, I don't know, as many of the wonderful staff I knew have since moved on, but I do know ione or two who are still there and ibviously they are very worried. Looking at it from outside, it seems that there has been an agenda to run this school down for some years now.

[classycarra]

Wasn't sure what thread to put this in, but some good news today.

Hopefully changes are made in that school, and the 20 other similar ones, very quickly. Ridiculous we're in this situation in 2017, but each small step like this is progress.

Hopefully one day there won't be any faith schools.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-41609861

An Islamic faith school's policy of segregating boys and girls is unlawful sex discrimination, a court has ruled.

The case was heard at the Court of Appeal as Ofsted challenged a High Court ruling clearing the Al-Hijrah school in Birmingham of discrimination.

Ofsted's lawyers argued the segregation left girls "unprepared for life in modern Britain".

Appeal judges ruled the school was discriminating against its pupils contrary to the Equality Act.

However, the court did not accept the argument the school's policy had disadvantaged girls more than boys.

The appeal judges also made it clear the government and Ofsted had failed to identify the problem earlier and other schools operating similarly should be given time "to put their houses in order".

About 20 schools - Islamic, Jewish and Christian - are thought to have similar segregation policies.

The three appeal judges heard boys and girls, aged four to 16, attend the Birmingham City Council-maintained Al-Hijrah school, in Bordesley Green.

But from Year Five, boys and girls are completely separated for lessons, breaks, school trips and school clubs.

In 2016, Ofsted ruled the school was inadequate and it was put in special measures, saying its policy of separating the sexes was discrimination under the 2010 Equality Act.

In November, High Court judge Mr Justice Jay overruled the inspectors, saying that they had taken an "erroneous" view on an issue "of considerable public importance".

Speaking after the Court of Appeal ruling Amanda Spielman, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Schools, said educational institutions should never treat pupils less favourably because of their sex.

"The school is teaching boys and girls entirely separately, making them walk down separate corridors, and keeping them apart at all times," she said.

"This is discrimination and is wrong. It places these boys and girls at a disadvantage for life beyond the classroom and the workplace, and fails to prepare them for life in modern Britain," she said.

In the ruling, the appeal judges said Ofsted had made it clear if the appeal succeeded, "it will apply a consistent approach to all similarly organised schools".

Given their failure to identify the problem earlier, the education secretary and Ofsted had "de facto sanctioned and accepted a state of affairs which is unlawful" and should give the affected schools time to "put their houses in order", the judges said.

The ruling means state schools which segregate pupils risk being given a lower rating by Ofsted. It only applies to mixed-sex schools.

During the appeal hearing, Peter Oldham QC, speaking for Al-Hijrah's interim executive board, said the boys and girls at the school were treated entirely equally while segregated.

He said Ofsted did not claim separation was discrimination until 2016 and its actions were "the antithesis of proper public decision-making".

Birmingham City Council said it took the High Court action it had because it felt Al-Hijrah school had been held to a different standard than other schools with similar arrangements, which had not been downgraded by Ofsted as a consequence.

Colin Diamond, corporate director of children and young people at the Labour-run council, said the case had always been about fairness and consistency in the inspection process.

"We would therefore highlight comments made in this judgement about the secretary of state's and Ofsted's 'failure to identify the problem'," he said.

He added the council had a strong history of encouraging all schools to practise equality but if it was national policy that schools with gender separation were discriminating against pupils then local authorities and the schools needed to be told so they knew the standards they were being inspected against.

Matt Bennett, shadow cabinet member for children and family services, said the verdict did not reflect well on Al-Hijrah, the council, Ofsted or the DfE.

"It is now clear that practices breaching the Equality Act 2010 have been allowed to continue at this school, and others across the country. Action is now required at local and national level," he said.

[CraigDS]

I went to an all boys school, it didn't leave me "unprepared for modern Britain" or "at a disadvantage".

[TepidT2O]

I went to an all boys school, it didn't leave me "unprepared for modern Britain" or "at a disadvantage".

The issue is that this was a mixed school where boys and girls were entirely segregated with no good reason.

Sometimes even within the same classroom.

[thejbs]

I went to an all boys school, it didn't leave me "unprepared for modern Britain" or "at a disadvantage".

I went into a single sex school for my a-levels after 12 years of mixed-sex education and I remember finding that the guys there had very different attitudes towards women.  They didn't have the same socialisation skills we had developed.  I used to meet up with my high school friends at lunch, a group of girls and guys, while the guys in the school hung about together.  Their interactions were pretty imature, even though they were all 17-18 years old.

And with regard to the actual schooling.  We did 3 years of home economics that meant I was able to cook and bake by the age of 14.

[CraigDS]

The issue is that this was a mixed school where boys and girls were entirely segregated with no good reason.

Sometimes even within the same classroom.

What's the difference though? I assume the school has always done this, so the fact the segregate in the same buildings or do it across two buildings (as my school did) is no different is it?

[CraigDS]

I went into a single sex school for my a-levels after 12 years of mixed-sex education and I remember finding that the guys there had very different attitudes towards women.  They didn't have the same socialisation skills we had developed.  I used to meet up with my high school friends at lunch, a group of girls and guys, while the guys in the school hung about together.  Their interactions were pretty imature, even though they were all 17-18 years old.

And with regard to the actual schooling.  We did 3 years of home economics that meant I was able to cook and bake by the age of 14.

See now I would have said the same when I went to a mixed college. The lads seemed to think they were gods gift to women and treated them pretty fucking shocking. Some of the stuff they'd say to them was disgusting to be honest. Where as the group of us which went from my school appeared to be a lot more respectful.

We also did home economics and I'm a great cook 

[thejbs]

See now I would have said the same when I went to a mixed college. The lads seemed to think they were gods gift to women and treated them pretty fucking shocking. Some of the stuff they'd say to them was disgusting to be honest. Where as the group of us which went from my school appeared to be a lot more respectful.

We also did home economics and I'm a great cook 

Cool. I didn't experience that at all.  We had groups of friends that were mixed whereas our same sex schooled friends didn't - they'd hang out in groups of lads.  I can still remember a lad in my class calling me a 'fruit' after seeing me hanging out with 4 girls and 2 fellas at lunch.  He then proceeded to tell me 2 of my female friends were 'munters.'

There was no home economics taught in that school either, which I discovered when I went to college and lived with a few new friends from the school. They also asked if I was 'going to bang' every female friend that I brought home during first year of college. 

[thejbs]

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/333/6050/1706.summary

That's a paper from the journal of science that  concluded:

There is no well-designed research showing that single-sex (SS) education improves students' academic performance, but there is evidence that sex segregation increases gender stereotyping and legitimizes institutional sexism

You're lucky that your experiences went against the norms.

[CraigDS]

Cool. I didn't experience that at all.  We had groups of friends that were mixed whereas our same sex schooled friends didn't - they'd hang out in groups of lads.  I can still remember a lad in my class calling me a 'fruit' after seeing me hanging out with 4 girls and 2 fellas at lunch.  He then proceeded to tell me 2 of my female friends were 'munters.'

There was no home economics taught in that school either, which I discovered when I went to college and lived with a few new friends from the school. They also asked if I was 'going to bang' every female friend that I brought home during first year of college.

I guess there are many experiences from both sides of it and a lot will do with upbringing outside of school.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/333/6050/1706.summary

That's a paper from the journal of science that  concluded:

You're lucky that your experiences went against the norms.

Again, there are many arguments for both sides.

My GF is a teacher (in a single sex school, although taught mixed last year) and is currently doing a Masters in Gender Studies and focusing it on Education. She's been reading many papers on single sex schooling over the last few months and there are many (good) arguments both for and against.

[TepidT2O]

What's the difference though? I assume the school has always done this, so the fact the segregate in the same buildings or do it across two buildings (as my school did) is no different is it?

I think the issue is more profound than you have assumed.  They didn’t just separate, they segregated and they discriminated. What they did was illegal.
Not that I agree with separating girls and boys for the most part.

[TepidT2O]

This sentence from the BBC disturbs me...

One mother of a Year 11 girl at the Bordesley Green school, said: "If it's [an] Islamic school, obviously it's best if they separate the boys and the girls so that they don't mix with each other."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-41621338

[Kenny's Jacket]

I saw the story on the News the other day. They said its funded with public money.  Is it normal for faith schools to be publically funded?  Seems a really poor use of cash to fund such schools or is it normal?

[TepidT2O]

I saw the story on the News the other day. They said its funded with public money.  Is it normal for faith schools to be publically funded?  Seems a really poor use of cash to fund such schools or is it normal?

There’s a large number of the.  The large majority CofE or Catholic.

[Kenny's Jacket]

There’s a large number of the.  The large majority CofE or Catholic.

I didnt realise that. Always assumed faith schools were voluntarily funded.

I think you're a teacher right? Do you have thought on publicly funded faith schools?  It seems rather exclusive to me. More so with Islamic schools as they can only be used by say 3-5% of the population. 

[TepidT2O]

I didnt realise that. Always assumed faith schools were voluntarily funded.

I think you're a teacher right? Do you have thought on publicly funded faith schools?  It seems rather exclusive to me. More so with Islamic schools as they can only be used by say 3-5% of the population. 

I have a problem with selecting ongrounds of faith.  When the intake is broad, then it’s not such an issue.

I worry greatly that people get stuck in their communities, isolated and don’t mix.  That’s always a bad thing.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I have a problem with selecting ongrounds of faith.  When the intake is broad, then it’s not such an issue.

I worry greatly that people get stuck in their communities, isolated and don’t mix.  That’s always a bad thing.

Yes.  Thanks.

[Elmo!]

I didnt realise that. Always assumed faith schools were voluntarily funded.

I think you're a teacher right? Do you have thought on publicly funded faith schools?  It seems rather exclusive to me. More so with Islamic schools as they can only be used by say 3-5% of the population.

They aren't exclusive (in theory anyway). We have plenty of them in Scotland (though not where I am, they are predominantly in Glasgow and to a lesser extent Edinburgh), and I know several people from atheist or protestant backgrounds who have gone to catholic schools.

[Kenny's Jacket]

They aren't exclusive (in theory anyway). We have plenty of them in Scotland (though not where I am, they are predominantly in Glasgow and to a lesser extent Edinburgh), and I know several people from atheist or protestant backgrounds who have gone to catholic schools.

Right OK thanks.  I went on the website of the Islamic school in the news. Whilst it doesn't say muslims not permitted, the criteria to get in dictates as much.  I can see proddys, catholics and atheist kids interchanging schools with not too much issue.
I'm an atheist, but by default culturally Christian.
I dont think that would be the case with islamic or hindu schools for example. 

[TepidT2O]

Right OK thanks.  I went on the website of the Islamic school in the news. Whilst it doesn't say muslims not permitted, the criteria to get in dictates as much.  I can see proddys, catholics and atheist kids interchanging schools with not too much issue.
I'm an atheist, but by default culturally Christian.
I dont think that would be the case with islamic or hindu schools for example. 

I think they have to take 10% outside of the faith....  whether any apply is a different question