Topic: 10 Cap Split - Semi Final 1 - Sheer vs Trend

[tubby]

Sheer


vs

Trend

[Sheer Magnetism]

Oof. Good players but the shape of Trend's team is ugly as sin. A number 10 in central midfield and two attacking wingers in the full back positions mean that team is being picked off on the break again and again. Just imagine a three-man defence featuring Philippe Mexes against a Pele/Best/Cubillas/De Bruyne front four. Neither of Cruyff or Drogba either played in a front two either, but that's a minor complaint in comparison.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Oof. Good players but the shape of Trend's team is ugly as sin. A number 10 in central midfield and two attacking wingers in the full back positions mean that team is being picked off on the break again and again. Just imagine a three-man defence featuring Philippe Mexes against a Pele/Best/Cubillas/De Bruyne front four. Neither of Cruyff or Drogba either played in a front two either, but that's a minor complaint in comparison.

You need to brush up on your 3-5-2 tactics.  The 32 is a formation used to win the battle in the middle of the park while also putting pressure on your CB's with Cruyff/Drogba for immediate retaliation.

And as far as labeling Dzajic and Heighway to be "in the fullback position", you make an error.   They are playing a deeper wide midfield role, trying to pin other teams in the attacking third, but recovering to a deeper position.  Dzajic is more of threat going forward so he becomes someone we release the ball to on the left side higher frequently than the workhorse Heighway - who can play all of the right sided flank, (high, deep, or low).   So, there's that mischaracterization.

And the criticism of Drogba and Cruyff not playing in a two is weak.   The formation (stagnant one time snap shot) is not able to show movement or combination play between the two where Drogba becomes an aerial target and Cruyff runs off of him in a stacked (1-1) movement or we can play into Johan's feet and Zico/Didier find space on the opposite side - creating mismatches.   You are making some assumptions with your defense, so I feel like my two guys up top (World Class) deserve the same type of consideration.


But for me, the big issue has to do with  Manc-ness

1. DeBruyne - Blue balls and eye orbitals manc (although a stained glass window of a player nonetheless)
2. George Best - Red manc at heart, but a mercurial genius that probably does not deserve to be labeled a manc
3. Roy Keane  - Pure red manc twat; great player but shitty person
==================================================>   If it was only these three, then I'd say fine, Sheer took some studs who happen to be Mancunian, but half his team?

4. Gael "fucking" Clichy - light blue Manc and former Arsenal reject;  putting Clichy on your team is like watching Mr. Bean teach sex education (a car crash)
5.  Viv Anderson - red Manc; this journeyman who also happened to play for our main rivals was considered to be a very good defender for his time and that's about all - we have a stage 5 Clinger
6. Danny Blind's sperm -  a loose one let go by old Danny caught the ovum and struck through the zona pelucida to fertilize into what became Daley Blind (ex-Manc)....

Sheer over-manc'ed and wanked his way to wedging in too many Mancunians.

 

[Sheer Magnetism]

You can make all the tenuous Manc connections you want, that's all you've got in this context. Cruyff operated in the same free role Zico is in your team - he isn't a Michael Owen-like poacher - and neither Djazlic nor Heighway (as much as I'm a fan) are defensively disciplined enough to play as wing backs in this context. I'm guessing they're meant to be wing backs. The alternative is you're essentially playing a 3-2-5 with Guti as one of the defensive midfielders and, at most, one genuine workhorse in that attacking five.

It makes the 82' Brazilian team look like Catenaccio in comparison, and a defensive playmaker like Beckenbauer can play long passes to feet to bypass those attacking players with ease. But the most uneven match up here has to be Best against the notoriously rash Mexes, who'd be receiving his second yellow before half time.

[El Lobo]

Trend should win this one comfortably. Lovely attack in Pele, Best and Cubillas but asking them to do way too much work considering how defensive the rest of the team is set up. Mexes probably looks a weak link in there but he was a cracking player on his day, and Maldini and Passarella speak for themselves

[tubby]

Feels like Trend is too top heavy, Guti you can get away with in a two, but not so much with only three defenders behind him.  Sheer has the better balance to his team, but Clichy really does look like a weak link in there.

I dunno, I'm undecided.  Two very strong teams.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Trend should win this one comfortably. Lovely attack in Pele, Best and Cubillas but asking them to do way too much work considering how defensive the rest of the team is set up. Mexes probably looks a weak link in there but he was a cracking player on his day, and Maldini and Passarella speak for themselves

You're right, a team where the front three contribute most of the goals couldn't possibly win anything, certainly not a Champions League and then a league title the following year.

[El Lobo]

You're right, a team where the front three contribute most of the goals couldn't possibly win anything, certainly not a Champions League and then a league title the following year.

Its just a game Sheer, dont get so tetchy about it

In my opinion, Trends team would win this easily. Nothing to do with actual real life (where we had three class attackers, plus two top class attacking full backs and not Viv Anderson and Gael Clichy and a real quality functional midfield as opposed to a CB and Roy Keane).

Plus, of course, voters should still be considering that Trend doesn't have any ineligible players.

[tubby]

Think you're underselling Viv Anderson a bit here, he was a quality fullback and played in two European Cup winning teams.  Clichy, though, sure.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

You can make all the tenuous Manc connections you want, that's all you've got in this context. Cruyff operated in the same free role Zico is in your team - he isn't a Michael Owen-like poacher - and neither Djazlic nor Heighway (as much as I'm a fan) are defensively disciplined enough to play as wing backs in this context. I'm guessing they're meant to be wing backs. The alternative is you're essentially playing a 3-2-5 with Guti as one of the defensive midfielders and, at most, one genuine workhorse in that attacking five.

It makes the 82' Brazilian team look like Catenaccio in comparison, and a defensive playmaker like Beckenbauer can play long passes to feet to bypass those attacking players with ease. But the most uneven match up here has to be Best against the notoriously rash Mexes, who'd be receiving his second yellow before half time.

Wrong on so many accounts. 

First, my front line of Drogba and Cruyff occupies your RCB Blind and LCB Costacurta - requiring Beckenbauer to make choices (allow 1 v 1 battles where we have an advantage by staying at DM or providing some sweeping support).  This is what we want to do - make Franz move back and forth and not get comfortable on the ball.   So, the two front works tactically, and I am pretty sure both know how to play a striker position or in this case slice the pitch into a half to play their usual game.  Our coverage means that we funnel the play to Gael Clichy and Viv Anderson as your playermakers playing out of the back --- It means Keane or Beckenbauer will need to help to play the ball out of the back if you want to possess the ball ---- and any mistakes pulls them out of the center.   Its a good strategy frankly.

Second, I've now said three times.  We are not playing with wingbacks.  Dzajic and Heighway are midfielders whose starting position begins deeper without the ball (preventing flank penetration congesting the middle third of the pitch in a midfield 5).  This means when we have the ball they get forward and provide combination play and service and when we lose the ball we retreat into position in the middle of third of pitch that allow for defensive compactness and pressure but also flair out wide to become an option for a quick counter (especially Dzajic) who is deadly out wide going forward.

Here is how my team is lined up.   Its pretty simple, the DM mid pivots drop in when the opposing players try to expose the flank play (because there is no room in the middle of the park) and Maldini or Mexes flare out to assume the left back or right back role and one of our two DM's drops in (preferably Souness) but both can provide pressure and cover.   Guti is quick and can help us play out through intercepting passes and Souness can use his power, strength to prevent central penetration once the flank play matures.   The opposite side midfielder will have time and space and Drogba and Cruyff occupy the CB's.  Its sound.  Here is a basic primer - nothing flashy but relevant.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/U8EoD39H7Es" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/U8EoD39H7Es</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RuI2gSD6rhE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RuI2gSD6rhE</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sX8oE3xbAQg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sX8oE3xbAQg</a>

[Crosby Nick]

It’s all very easy to say with conviction now something hypothetical would work.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

It’s all very easy to say with conviction now something hypothetical would work.

I've played and coached (youth) in this formation.  Its more than hypothetical.  The 3-5-2 (midfield overload) and all its variations like the 32 are lost arts that will come back one day.  Mark my words!

[Crosby Nick]

I've played and coached (youth) in this formation.  Its more than hypothetical.  The 3-5-2 (midfield overload) and all its variations like the 32 are lost arts that will come back one day.  Mark my words!

Sorry, not the formation stuff. But just saying how x player will occupy y player.

Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home as Arsenal Wenger once said.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Sorry, not the formation stuff. But just saying how x player will occupy y player.

Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home as Arsenal Wenger once said.

Let's be honest Nick.  You front four are the prettiest in the draft    

[Sheer Magnetism]

I know how a 3-5-2 works, I'm simply pointing out the players you have in those wide positions are too attacking to be in those roles. Neither Džajić nor Heighway were central midfielders and Zico was a pure number 10 - none of them are players whose strengths involve closing down play in the centre. The idea Souness and Guti (who isn't in the same class as any of the other midfielders on either team) can overload a Beckenbauer-De Bruyne-Keane midfield is fanciful at best. And while they aren't at the Robbo/Trent level, Anderson and Clichy have more than enough pace to break quickly and bring the ball forward at speed. No chance they get pinned back.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I know how a 3-5-2 works, I'm simply pointing out the players you have in those wide positions are too attacking to be in those roles. Neither Džajić nor Heighway were central midfielders and Zico was a pure number 10 - none of them are players whose strengths involve closing down play in the centre. The idea Souness and Guti (who isn't in the same class as any of the other midfielders on either team) can overload a Beckenbauer-De Bruyne-Keane midfield is fanciful at best. And while they aren't at the Robbo/Trent level, Anderson and Clichy have more than enough pace to break quickly and bring the ball forward at speed. No chance they get pinned back.

Every post gets worse.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Dzajic and Heighway are midfielders whose starting position begins deeper without the ball (preventing flank penetration congesting the middle third of the pitch in a midfield 5).  This means when we have the ball they get forward and provide combination play and service and when we lose the ball we retreat into position in the middle of third of pitch that allow for defensive compactness and pressure but also flair out wide to become an option for a quick counter (especially Dzajic) who is deadly out wide going forward.

Your two wingers aren't playing wide? Do flanks mean the centre now? This paragraph says your system relies on Zico and Dzajic dropping back into a defensively compact shape without the ball, something neither had ever done in their entire career because they both had free creative roles. Pretty sure Stevie Heighway never did that either, which is why he was generally paired with a more disciplined player on the other side like Kennedy or Callaghan.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Meooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww

[Lastrador]

So this is the fun one. It’s nice to see two teams with back threes making it this far.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Your two wingers aren't playing wide? Do flanks mean the centre now? This paragraph says your system relies on Zico and Dzajic dropping back into a defensively compact shape without the ball, something neither had ever done in their entire career because they both had free creative roles. Pretty sure Stevie Heighway never did that either, which is why he was generally paired with a more disciplined player on the other side like Kennedy or Callaghan.

There are strong side responsibilities of pressure and cover preventing easy flank access for Dzajic and Heighway in the middle third without the ball, and there are weak side responsibilities of tucking in to provide numbers up in the midfield - its pretty basic.

And in our defensive third, they track back to a point but not into Maldini’s or Mexes’ zones in the flanks.  One of our DMs tucks into the CB line just like Beckenbauer maneuvers in your setup - when defending and when we win the ball we look to play into the feet of several options - wide or Zico a bit higher.   And I can tell you this much - if Beckenbauer stays at Sweeper - we knock the ball around and possess with our numbers in midfield (5 v 2) or if Beckenbauer sits in at DM next to Keane - will play over the top to Drogba and Cruyff - 1v1 all game long.  Against us Beckenbauer will either be chasing his tail to get the ball or will be bypassed in the game -- hitting over his and Keane's head everytime - making them useless defensively.

By the way, it looks like you are attacking with 4.  Keane and Becks are not getting forward in the offensive third --- so you are relying up Viv and Clichy to do a lot of running against a side who is designed to put counters (Heighway and Dzajic) to exploit the vacated spaces.   4 vs my back 6 will not get it done.

[tubby]

Tied at the moment, how exciting.

[Crosby Nick]

When did Sheer steal Nicol off me?

[Trendisnotdestiny]

When did Sheer steal Nicol off me?

Vivian not Nicole sorry - the wives have me running around.

[Lastrador]

How there are 5 more votes on this match than the other (if we can call it a match)? Who’s wives are responsable for such voting discrepancy?

[Crosby Nick]

How there are 5 more votes on this match than the other (if we can call it a match)? Who’s wives are responsable for such voting discrepancy?

Bit odd isn’t it? Do we suspect foul play?

[Samie]

You dickheads do realise threads at the top of the page are likely to get more views than ones in 4th or 5th place?

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Bit odd isn’t it? Do we suspect foul play?

There was some wivery mention in the semis too if I recall.

[Crosby Nick]

You dickheads do realise threads at the top of the page are likely to get more views than ones in 4th or 5th place?

More views yeah but I’d have thought most people who vote know to vote in both semis. No skin off my winning nose.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

More views yeah but I’d have thought most people who vote know to vote in both semis. No skin off my winning nose.

[Lastrador]

Bit odd isn’t it? Do we suspect foul play?

Yep, I'm ready to make a formal wivery indictment. I don't know who the culprit is though, maybe they both are. Anyhow, this shows how noble and transparent our match is. A good ol' honest to god pounding.

[El Lobo]

You normally get a slight difference of one or two over different matches

21 votes in this and 14 in the other

Incredibly fishy going’s on in this match

[Betty Blue]

You normally get a slight difference of one or two over different matches

21 votes in this and 14 in the other

Incredibly fishy going’s on in this match

Can't even remember the last time we had 24 voters in a final, let alone one of the semis. Definitely very odd.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Look, all I know is I'm up against a team with two number nines, two number 10's, two wingers and no full backs, and I was up by four points this afternoon.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Seriously you lot are taking the piss with this voting nonsense.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Look, all I know is I'm up against a team with two number nines, two number 10's, two wingers and no full backs, and I was up by four points this afternoon.

Sheer, if this is all you know, that ain't much



Tubbs, great draft, thanks for your work mate.  Good luck Nick, I think you'll carry this one either way.

[AndyMuller]

I do love how serious Sheer takes the drafts. What a guy.

[El Lobo]

I do love how serious Sheer takes the drafts. What a guy.

If he gets a few more of his mates to vote we could hit the magic 50 mark!

[Crosby Nick]

If he gets a few more of his mates to vote we could hit the magic 50 mark!

“And do vote in the other semi thread so they don’t get suspicious. I’d rather face Lastrador in the final.”

[Sheer Magnetism]

Sheer, if this is all you know, that ain't much

Hey. I don't know much, but I know I love ya 

[Elzar]

28 votes and still this close, amazing. Throw them both out.