Topic: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD

[Schmidt]

Why do you worry about that? We have FSG to worry about that. If they want Mbappe (and they obviously do, since Henry was giving Mbappe and his family a tour in his private plane), let them worry about that.

We are in a better financial shape than Real Madrid at the moment. We have a better team at it's peak. Why would Mbappe risk the best years of his career in a rebuilding proces, when he could be guaranteed the top honors with us?

That's unfair, the vast majority of the talk in this thread is people trying to piece together a picture of our circumstances in order to figure out who we might or might not sign. Whether you think we'll target Mbappe or not, shooting someone down for analysing the situation is kind of bullshit.

[PeterTheRed ...]

That's unfair, the vast majority of the talk in this thread is people trying to piece together a picture of our circumstances in order to figure out who we might or might not sign. Whether you think we'll target Mbappe or not, shooting someone down for analysing the situation is kind of bullshit.

I think I've been completely fair. If the poster in question has suggested for months that we should sign Sancho for £80 million (plus add-ons and agent fee) and on £350,000 per week, why is she worried about Mbappe's big wages, if he moves when he is out of contract next summer?

[Schmidt]

I think I've been completely fair. If the poster in question has suggested for months that we should sign Sancho for £80 million (plus add-ons and agent fee) and on £350,000 per week, why is she worried about Mbappe's big wages, if he moves when he is out of contract next summer?

I'm not addressing the wider argument going on, I just think it's bullshit when people say "We have FSG to worry about that" when the vast majority of us are all trying to use what we know about the clubs circumstances and strategy to predict who we could sign, we're generally not just throwing names into the air with no thought.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing #Mbappe22 signing for Jurgens tricky Reds, but the numbers would be beyond astronomical, on a Bosman you'd be paying a signing on fee of at least £50m, and wages of £40m per year, madness.

[PeterTheRed ...]

I'm not addressing the wider argument going on, I just think it's bullshit when people say "We have FSG to worry about that" when the vast majority of us are all trying to use what we know about the clubs circumstances and strategy to predict who we could sign, we're generally not just throwing names into the air with no thought.

The most reliable source in France (RMC Sport) have reported on several ocassions that Real Madrid and LFC are the only possible destinations for Mbappe, if he leaves PSG. It is your prerogative to believe these reports, but the reality is that we are very much in the running for the player. I still think that he will end up at Real Madrid, but no one is throwing names into the air with no thought here ...

[PeterTheRed ...]

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing #Mbappe22 signing for Jurgens tricky Reds, but the numbers would be beyond astronomical, on a Bosman you'd be paying a signing on fee of at least £50m, and wages of £40m per year, madness.

I don't know about the signing-on fee, but the richest club in the World have offered Mbappe £25 million per year, for a contract extension ...

[elsewhere]

Arsenal will pay almost 50M for Ben White? Insane money imo.

[Schmidt]

The most reliable source in France (RMC Sport) have reported on several ocassions that Real Madrid and LFC are the only possible destinations for Mbappe, if he leaves PSG. It is your prerogative to believe these reports, but the reality is that we are very much in the running for the player. I still think that he will end up at Real Madrid, but no one is throwing names into the air with no thought here ...

I haven't said anything whatsoever about Mbappe.

[Fordy]

As I pointed out earlier Madrid’s players are coming to the end of their peak and they need to strengthen . They can get a Mbappe and not worry about their other players losing their shit because the likes of Modric and Benzema are hardly, at their ages, going to be able to go into the chairmen’s office and ask for parity or even close. Mbappe can become the focal point of it all. Plus they make more than us and can stretch their budget to suit.

The problem with us is the wage budget spiralling out of control. You really think Salah and Van Dijk, players in their prime, are going to accept a new player being close to almost double what they are on?

It's been highlighted that the main aim this season is the get the likes of Salah, Van Dijk to sign new contracts.  If a top top player joins us in summer of 22 then our current main players could be in new 5 year contracts already.

The likes of Salah, Van Dijk will want to know what is happening on the transfer front. Top players want the club they play for to improve.

[blacksun]

My problem is that there are people that have been advocating Salah to be sold since his first season here, has fck all to do with form for one, and that has been going on year in and year out. But prior to that, the massive outcries were we were a selling club, always losing our best players to other clubs.

There is a difference between selling a player who wants to leave and or has massive form issues/injury issues, and a selling a player who has none of those and is sitll performing at the highest level. [Salah is the one performing at the highest level, who has had one injury since he's been here, and he was out for 2 games because of said injury].

I am not opposed to selling Firmino for example, if you do want to fund a replacement, because I think certain aspects of his game have regressed. Mane I'd give another season, afterall he did deal with covid and it was a weird year for everyone involved, some react to it differently than others. However, there is nothing that would make me want to sell Salah for instance, who has performed at a high level, even when we have been inconsistent particularly in the final third.

But to sell him now, without any of the above mentioned issues taking place, to me is utter lunacy.

The problem is Defacto somebody used Mane as the example and You have turned it into Salah, I haven't seen anyone in this discussion remotely suggest Salah should be the one. All you guys saying we shouldn't sell a player at the top of his game must of hated 1987, selling Rushie off the back of a 30 goal season and bringing in Barnes, Beardlsy, Houghton and Aldridge with the money. What a horrible decision that was.
What you all seem to be missing is the point Sangria and others are trying to make which is teams need to evolve, you cant keep the same old players year in year out no matter how successful they have been as it gets stale. All our best managers have known this its why the likes of Keegan, Souness and Rush were sold to move the evolution along.
I don't credit Ferguson for much but the one thing he was very good at all through his successful years was knowing when to move top players on for the benefit of the teams long term, how many times did people say oh he's sold Stam, Ince, Beckham etc that's not going to end well and yet they continued to win the trophies year on year.
As fans its hard to accept players who have helped us be successful need to go but sometimes it has to happen and like Sangria I think Mane will be the first of our fabled front three, Firmino for all his brilliance is not a player many mangers would know what to do with and Salah is just to effective to consider yet hence Mane is the likeliest
It sucks but for continued success it has to happen

[killer-heels]

The problem is Defacto somebody used Mane as the example and You have turned it into Salah, I haven't seen anyone in this discussion remotely suggest Salah should be the one. All you guys saying we shouldn't sell a player at the top of his game must of hated 1987, selling Rushie off the back of a 30 goal season and bringing in Barnes, Beardlsy, Houghton and Aldridge with the money. What a horrible decision that was.
What you all seem to be missing is the point Sangria and others are trying to make which is teams need to evolve, you cant keep the same old players year in year out no matter how successful they have been as it gets stale. All our best managers have known this its why the likes of Keegan, Souness and Rush were sold to move the evolution along.
I don't credit Ferguson for much but the one thing he was very good at all through his successful years was knowing when to move top players on for the benefit of the teams long term, how many times did people say oh he's sold Stam, Ince, Beckham etc that's not going to end well and yet they continued to win the trophies year on year.
As fans its hard to accept players who have helped us be successful need to go but sometimes it has to happen and like Sangria I think Mane will be the first of our fabled front three, Firmino for all his brilliance is not a player many mangers would know what to do with and Salah is just to effective to consider yet hence Mane is the likeliest
It sucks but for continued success it has to happen

Its also in the context of knowing that generally we need the money in order to buy players. If you are not selling anyone, how do you expect to buy the next crop?

[Sangria]

The problem is Defacto somebody used Mane as the example and You have turned it into Salah, I haven't seen anyone in this discussion remotely suggest Salah should be the one. All you guys saying we shouldn't sell a player at the top of his game must of hated 1987, selling Rushie off the back of a 30 goal season and bringing in Barnes, Beardlsy, Houghton and Aldridge with the money. What a horrible decision that was.
What you all seem to be missing is the point Sangria and others are trying to make which is teams need to evolve, you cant keep the same old players year in year out no matter how successful they have been as it gets stale. All our best managers have known this its why the likes of Keegan, Souness and Rush were sold to move the evolution along.
I don't credit Ferguson for much but the one thing he was very good at all through his successful years was knowing when to move top players on for the benefit of the teams long term, how many times did people say oh he's sold Stam, Ince, Beckham etc that's not going to end well and yet they continued to win the trophies year on year.
As fans its hard to accept players who have helped us be successful need to go but sometimes it has to happen and like Sangria I think Mane will be the first of our fabled front three, Firmino for all his brilliance is not a player many mangers would know what to do with and Salah is just to effective to consider yet hence Mane is the likeliest
It sucks but for continued success it has to happen

Within the current era, under the current manager, we sold one of our stars and used the money to buy three of our current starters. We usually spend 40m net with the remainder coming from sales of squad players. In the space of 2 windows, we signed the most expensive defender in the world, the most expensive goalkeeper in the world, and one of the best DMs in the world. All funded by selling one of our star players.

[thekitkatshuffler]

Arsenal will pay almost 50M for Ben White? Insane money imo.

It's like the opinion of the RAWK hipsters has become sentient.

Kinda terrifying in its own way.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The problem is Defacto somebody used Mane as the example and You have turned it into Salah, I haven't seen anyone in this discussion remotely suggest Salah should be the one. All you guys saying we shouldn't sell a player at the top of his game must of hated 1987, selling Rushie off the back of a 30 goal season and bringing in Barnes, Beardlsy, Houghton and Aldridge with the money. What a horrible decision that was.
What you all seem to be missing is the point Sangria and others are trying to make which is teams need to evolve, you cant keep the same old players year in year out no matter how successful they have been as it gets stale. All our best managers have known this its why the likes of Keegan, Souness and Rush were sold to move the evolution along.
I don't credit Ferguson for much but the one thing he was very good at all through his successful years was knowing when to move top players on for the benefit of the teams long term, how many times did people say oh he's sold Stam, Ince, Beckham etc that's not going to end well and yet they continued to win the trophies year on year.
As fans its hard to accept players who have helped us be successful need to go but sometimes it has to happen and like Sangria I think Mane will be the first of our fabled front three, Firmino for all his brilliance is not a player many mangers would know what to do with and Salah is just to effective to consider yet hence Mane is the likeliest
It sucks but for continued success it has to happen

There have been plenty of examples of Salah being mentioned as a player to sell, this is a big forum, aside from this forum, it's been doing the rounds within our own fanbase for about 3 years now. [look at his thread on the main forum for examples] I brought him up as an example of how the logic of selling your best players who don't want to go, or who aren't showing signs of decline is lunacy.

I think I also elaborated that selling Firmino and Mane for instance makes more sense, if you wanted to fund new players, if they continue their regression, Firmino in particular. So in those scenarios it makes sense. I'd be totally ok if we sold Firmino today, and brought someone better if possible. As I said already, I'd give Mane another season to see whether or not last season was a fluke. I literally just said this in the post you quoted and responded to.

As far as Rush goes, what happened in 1987 shouldn't automatically mean the same should happen now. The game isn't the same, and players don't drop off a cliff at a certain age, particularly those who take care of themselves and are performing well. Again,to reiterate, sell those who are showing signs of decline if that's how you want to go about getting new players. I don't have a problem with getting rid of players who fall into that criteria.

 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Within the current era, under the current manager, we sold one of our stars and used the money to buy three of our current starters. We usually spend 40m net with the remainder coming from sales of squad players. In the space of 2 windows, we signed the most expensive defender in the world, the most expensive goalkeeper in the world, and one of the best DMs in the world. All funded by selling one of our star players.

And we sold the said player because he wanted to move. We didn't push him out the door. Which is different to everything I've said previously. We didn't force him to leave and it's not like we caved in the moment he made his desire known [in the summer of 2017]. We adjusted our plans once it was clear that his head wasn't here and he wanted to go. And we adapted in that scenario.

But we didn't out of the blue go out and sell him and fund new players because that's what we always wanted to do.

We also had an interest in signing Van Dijk whilst Coutinho was still at the club [that summer], and the only reason we didn't sign him in the summer is due to Soton's complaints to the FA about our tapping up.

[Sangria]

And we sold the said player because he wanted to move. We didn't push him out the door. Which is different to everything I've said previously. We didn't force him to leave and it's not like we caved in the moment he made his desire known [in the summer of 2017]. We adjusted our plans once it was clear that his head wasn't here and he wanted to go. And we adapted in that scenario.

But we didn't out of the blue go out and sell him and fund new players because that's what we always wanted to do.

We also had an interest in signing Van Dijk whilst Coutinho was still at the club [that summer], and the only reason we didn't sign him in the summer is due to Soton's complaints to the FA about our tapping up.

Did I mention anything about pushing him to leave? It was MacRed who pushed that particular beat, not me. I only said that the interest was there, and that it shouldn't be seen as a negative if players do not see us as their ultimate club. Just because MacRed says I said it, doesn't mean that I actually said it.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

The only way we sign Mbappe is if he genuinely cares about football and being part of something more than he does about money. Not impossible, but very much a rarity in modern football.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Did I mention anything about pushing him to leave? It was MacRed who pushed that particular beat, not me. I only said that the interest was there, and that it shouldn't be seen as a negative if players do not see us as their ultimate club. Just because MacRed says I said it, doesn't mean that I actually said it.

This is exactly what you have said ...

That's why it's a pity that the market has dropped out. But in more normal times, with Real and Barca strutting their stuff again, we should be looking to sell one of our stars every 2-3 years, and not act offended that players may not see us as the end point of their career.

And I still disagree with it ...

[Knight]

I’d of thought the ‘sell Salah’ stuff mostly takes it for granted that he’d need to want to leave and a club would need to want to buy him. Anyone engaging in hypotheticals hasn’t seemed to me to want any part of a hypothetical that has Salah asking to stay while we drive him to the airport. It’s all hypothetical, football manager type stuff to keep folk occupied anyway so I don’t know why people take it so seriously. I guess in so far as suggestions we sell him are motivated by undervaluing how good he is then pushback is legitimate. After all, If we did get £150 million for him it’d take all ours costing recruiting genius to replace what he offers with 2/3 players. Or Mbappe

[killer-heels]

The only way we sign Mbappe is if he genuinely cares about football and being part of something more than he does about money. Not impossible, but very much a rarity in modern football.

Not sure you can class Madrid in the same club as the likes of PSG or Man City.

[Sangria]

This is exactly what you have said ...

And I still disagree with it ...

I wish the interest were true equals pushing him out?

[killer-heels]

I’d of thought the ‘sell Salah’ stuff mostly takes it for granted that he’d need to want to leave and a club would need to want to buy him. Anyone engaging in hypotheticals hasn’t seemed to me to want any part of a hypothetical that has Salah asking to stay while we drive him to the airport. It’s all hypothetical, football manager type stuff to keep folk occupied anyway so I don’t know why people take it so seriously. I guess in so far as suggestions we sell him are motivated by undervaluing how good he is then pushback is legitimate. After all, If we did get £150 million for him it’d take all ours costing recruiting genius to replace what he offers with 2/3 players. Or Mbappe

I dont think Mbappe could replace Salah. Dont think he would score as many goals as him.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Not sure you can class Madrid in the same club as the likes of PSG or Man City.

Oh no absolutely not. I just mean we won't be able to match what they would pay him, so it would be all about selling him a project in the footballing sense i.e., come to Liverpool, be adored by the best fans, play for the best manager, win a few trophies, and at the end of it all you'll still be young enough to go to Madrid and earn shit loads and win a bit more if that's what you want to do.

[Sangria]

Oh no absolutely not. I just mean we won't be able to match what they would pay him, so it would be all about selling him a project in the footballing sense i.e., come to Liverpool, be adored by the best fans, play for the best manager, win a few trophies, and at the end of it all you'll still be young enough to go to Madrid and earn shit loads and win a bit more if that's what you want to do.

That's the best package we can offer. You don't need to choose between Liverpool and Real Madrid when you can have both; Liverpool now, Real Madrid later.

[FowlerLegend]

Oh no absolutely not. I just mean we won't be able to match what they would pay him, so it would be all about selling him a project in the footballing sense i.e., come to Liverpool, be adored by the best fans, play for the best manager, win a few trophies, and at the end of it all you'll still be young enough to go to Madrid and earn shit loads and win a bit more if that's what you want to do.

I see signing Mbappe is unlikely but not as far fetched as some make out.
The wages thing would probably only be an issue with the other players but I think the club could work out a way to afford it.
Looking around the club though I think Salah is the main one who would have the leverage to kick up a fuss and even then he is 6 or 7 years older than Mbappe. With Virgil I think people are forgetting that he is coming back from a super serious injury, its a bit of a risk to be giving him an extension, let alone a pay rise.
The thing is though, in all of this it is as you say it is about selling Mbappe a project and he himself has said that is what he wants. He talks very fondly about us.
Also, what would he do for the commercial side of the club, what statement would it send out to other clubs? Other players? FSG love these deals with LeBron James etc, it's the same with Mbappe hence why I could see them really really pushing this.
How many times have you heard people say "I can tell my grandkids I played with Messi?" The same will apply to this guy.
That will actually make negotiations with potential players easier. "This is our offer and you get to play with Mbappe".
No one is arguing that the amount to get him here is a lot but I think people are underplaying the positive mental and financial impact it will also have on the club.

[FowlerLegend]

One final point on Mbappe. Couldn't you make the argument that he is potentially the ultimate moneyball signing? Sign him for £156m this year and sell him in 2 or 3 once RM are back on their feet for £300m? We could wait until next summer but we probably won't be able to compete with what everyone will offer

[Drinks Sangria]

West Ham reportedly have £17m turned down by Fiorentina for Nikola Milenkovic. They will hold out for closer to £28m.

Ben White will join Arsenal shortly for a fee of around £45m plus add ons.

Slightly transfer related -

Favre not joining Palace due to a lack of transfer funds available.

Derby potentially facing relegation to League One due to a renewed request for punishment for a collective group of Championship and League One clubs over their avoidance of FFP regs.

All from reasonably good sources.

[Chris~]

It's mad to me that Palace, Spurs and Everton still haven't got a manager in place, more so the first two as they've had ages to plan for this.

I'd be worried a bit as a Palace fan as it seems their summer recruitment hinges quite a bit on who comes in as manager and they're going to need a fair bit to do, even more so with Eze likely out for the year. Just seems like it's going to need a huge effort to even stay up.

[clinical]

One final point on Mbappe. Couldn't you make the argument that he is potentially the ultimate moneyball signing? Sign him for £156m this year and sell him in 2 or 3 once RM are back on their feet for £300m? We could wait until next summer but we probably won't be able to compete with what everyone will offer

Our owners are pretty much as risk averse as they come. No way they'd risk that. What if he gets a bad injury? If he was £50m they'd may take the gamble but £156m.... no chance

[The North Bank]

Looks like Ben White is happening. Dont know much about him, seems a decent passer of the ball on you tube clips. General consensus is that he will improve our defence , if thats the case then im happy. He is the right age, English, wages wont be high end, but obviously its a very heavy premium on the transfer fee. I guess thats the owners way of trying to consolidate their own position.
It cant be the only signing though.  we need to keep going. A central midfielder alongside Partey, a number 10 , and possibly a striker. Isak, Bissouma, Maddison have all been linked so hopefully the spending doesnt stop.

[Gerry Attrick]

Looks like Ben White is happening. Dont know much about him, seems a decent passer of the ball on you tube clips. General consensus is that he will improve our defence , if thats the case then im happy. He is the right age, English, wages wont be high end, but obviously its a very heavy premium on the transfer fee. I guess thats the owners way of trying to consolidate their own position.
It cant be the only signing though.  we need to keep going. A central midfielder alongside Partey, a number 10 , and possibly a striker. Isak, Bissouma, Maddison have all been linked so hopefully the spending doesnt stop.

It’s going to be a lot of money to go nowhere really. Not sure any of the players that Arsenal have been linked with move them up the table much. 6th or 7th at best I reckon.

[El Lobo]

Arsenals strategy genuinely just seems to be 'if we can get someone highly rated, lets just get them and worry about if we actually need them later'

You've got Gabriel (23 and £27 million), Saliba (20 and £27 million), Holding, Pablo Mari and Callum Chambers (Tierney can play there too). If anything with those CBs and young fullbacks you should be looking for a more experienced CB instead of another expensive, young CB.

[Caston]

Jim White saying City are close to Grealish for 100m.

Just dropping a casual 100m+ each on 2 players this transfer window. 

[clinical]

The infamous Jim White saying Grealish to City near in a £100m deal.

So Kane and Grealish for £250m to city then. Pep is a genius i just really don't know how he does it.

[MD1990]

Grealish is very good.
But 100m is insane. I dont  think it is a good deal.
But is he is even guranteed to start? He is 26 as well near his peak not like he is 21 with lots of room to improve.

Im surprised City are paying that for him. It is a crazy price.

[The G in Gerrard]

Jim White saying City are close to Grealish for 100m.

Just dropping a casual 100m+ each on 2 players this transfer window. 

Can't see where he fits into that first 11 on a regular basis?

[The G in Gerrard]

Arsenals strategy genuinely just seems to be 'if we can get someone highly rated, lets just get them and worry about if we actually need them later'

You've got Gabriel (23 and £27 million), Saliba (20 and £27 million), Holding, Pablo Mari and Callum Chambers (Tierney can play there too). If anything with those CBs and young fullbacks you should be looking for a more experienced CB instead of another expensive, young CB.

Honestly don't understand why they are spending so much on someone who isn't great.

[clinical]

Grealish is very good.
But 100m is insane. I dont  think it is a good deal.
But is he is even guranteed to start? He is 26 as well near his peak not like he is 21 with lots of room to improve.

Im surprised City are paying that for him. It is a crazy price.

They will do what they want now FFP is dead. FFP going and covid has all meant the likes of Chelsea, City, PSG etc hold all the cards even more so now. It was bad before it's going to be 10 times worse now. Get prepared for it. The self funded clubs have much less money than before but the 3 above aren't affected at all and now have no regulation in place to stop them. It's mad.

[Dim Glas]

Jim White saying City are close to Grealish for 100m.

Just dropping a casual 100m+ each on 2 players this transfer window. 

remember when Guardiola actually had the gall to play the ‘we’ve not got loads of money’ card end of last season saying they can’t afford to replace Aguero

The man has zero self awareness, it’s hilarious.

(But also shit for football).

[Crosby Nick]

Honestly don't understand why they are spending so much on someone who isn't great.

Just adds to the roster (is that an annoying American word) of attacking midfield types that means they can dominate the ball and do their little overlap, cut back, goal move. Boring bastards.