Author Topic: Liverpool has lost it's world heritage status!  (Read 38077 times)

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2011, 02:03:27 pm »
UNESCO can fuck off.

Places expand and grow. The city comes first, way before what some pretentious twat from UNESCO thinks.
Although I would agree with that, I also think that Pistolero is spot on.


I want Liverpool to be Liverpool   ---- Unique.

Not another E-fit city with non-descript glass boxes, and appartments everywhere, totally out of character with the location they are in.


What's good for Peel, is not whats necessarily good fro the city as a whole.


All of these 'jobs' being created.  How many of tham are long term, and not just in the srevice industry?

As for the construction project(s) themselves. As we all know, you'd be lucky if 25% of the workforce is local, as all of the contracts will go out to tender, and the bigger national construction companies tend to bring in their own workforce, and only recruit a minority localy.

Offline Fiasco

  • Just add water to foam at the mouth. Can't spell San Francisco. Has promised to eat his own cock. Cannibal Self-Harm in that case.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,203
  • JFT96.
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2011, 09:04:45 pm »
It's a little ironic that one of the things we're famous for could be the same thing that could potentially hold us back for decades to come.

Online gazzam1963

  • RAWK Cruiser. Andy@Allertons twin brother. Really misses a good fist pump.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,773
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2011, 10:33:03 pm »
What peel are proposing is to expand the city centre to the north which at the moment is just dereliction after Waterloo warehouse  a clump of skyscrapers imthink would look great  and would expand the city skyline , we can't stop the renaissance of the city as it looks fantastic these days and as the word spreads through tourism ( as all I hear is rave reviews) then Liverpool will become a great place to live and relocate too as it does have everything in the merseyside area , enticing hopefully more firms to relocate here

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2011, 02:15:12 am »
I have no problem with the city expanding. On the contrary, it need it,  but it has to be in keeping with the style and history of the city, and it's heritage.

gazzam1963:  So what you are saying is, just build it and get on with it?  Yes?


This city already has a glut of unsold and empty appartments.  Even the amount of empty office and retail space in some parts of the city centre is shocking.

I have no problem with businesses like Pell spending gazillions on expanding the city, but they have to do it within keeping of the heritage of the city, and they have to be realistic in selling and leasing what they build.


As I said earlier. The biggest travesty would be to build a shit load of E-fit glass boxes, that give nothing to the city - other than a skyline - that are white elephants, to sit half empty, and unsold.



To me, the whole exersize just seems to be Peel Holdings, maximising their revenue. 

Build it, lease it. sell it. Money in the bank for Peel........ all under the disguise of......WOOOHOOOOOOO It's all good for Liverpool ( flag waving.....back slapping....palm greasing).

Meantime. Peel gets what it wants, strengthens it position in liverpool, up's it profile a tad more, and satisfies the shareholders.

Liverpool gets another dozen additions to the skyline, that sits half empty for years to come.

Offline stevensr123

  • bedwetter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,794
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2011, 05:17:55 am »
Although I would agree with that, I also think that Pistolero is spot on.


I want Liverpool to be Liverpool   ---- Unique.

Not another E-fit city with non-descript glass boxes, and appartments everywhere, totally out of character with the location they are in.


What's good for Peel, is not whats necessarily good fro the city as a whole.


All of these 'jobs' being created.  How many of tham are long term, and not just in the srevice industry?

As for the construction project(s) themselves. As we all know, you'd be lucky if 25% of the workforce is local, as all of the contracts will go out to tender, and the bigger national construction companies tend to bring in their own workforce, and only recruit a minority localy.
I could  not give a shit if it meant giving the people of liverpool  a better life style, a nicer place to live and more jobs created.

We are going to regret it if our history keeps holding us back from creating more jobs, homes, businesses just on the basis of "keeping it unique" while the likes of manchester keeps on developing.


More jobs, developments etc = better for the PEOPLE of the city. The only thing I think is bad is their is not a lot of development  going on outside the city it seems. Housing is being run down, loads of empty buildings being left to rot etc and their should be more investment in these areas. The likes of fazakerly, kirby etc  are shit holes  (no offensive ) and needs improving because they are simply being run down.

PUSSY cat, PUSSY cat, I love you,  yes I do.......

Online gazzam1963

  • RAWK Cruiser. Andy@Allertons twin brother. Really misses a good fist pump.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,773
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2011, 08:20:05 pm »
I'm not just saying let them get on with it , but develop it and use the uniqueness , heritage ,friendliness in general of the people , the resources of people and all the great amenities we have all over merseyside make it a great case for the public and private industry to relocate plenty of there services to Liverpool as we all know people who live here now because they came to either study or work and loved it so much they stay . I'd love a city that has a 24 hour buzz like new york

Offline the 92A

  • Alberto Incontidor. Peneus. Phantom Thread Locker. Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough. Almost as bad as Jim...
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,029
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2011, 12:07:19 pm »
Or, had Unesco been around post Blitz then St Paul's may still dominate the Thames skyline in the City the way it should.  As with all these things it is about striking a balance.
Is it one or the other? I would have loved the original proposals loads of tall skyscrapers on the north Docks, making a visual statement, Lets be honest come up the River and you see large areas of dereliction that detract from the three graces. I personally think that a load of sky scrapers would contrast and add to the vista as well as help regenerating Liverpool. You look at 'the three graces' and look at some of the buildings that have been allowed to be built around them that do detract from the vista because they are safe or boring. Give me The Cloud or something that makes a statement rather than the rather boring blocks at the back of the new museum. The Museum fails for me doesn't quite make the statement it should, you can see where it was going but it's not world class, the last thing that on that sight needs to be some mock three grace, it needs a strong contrast in my opinion, the worst option is some of the developments on the Princes Dock, a rectangular box for Parking cars, High street Hotel developments, all of these detract from the Liver building but fuck all is said,  Liverpool contains some great 19 century early 20 century buildings but lets build quality buildings to accompany them rather than blocking anything new.
 
I'm  not against planning, I was in New York and you look at somewhere like Madison Square Garden and Pennsylvania station and the boring box's that occupies that site and contrast it to the original buildings and I'll vote for conservation but the yard stick is quality, is the new building quality in whatever style? Never mind carte Blanche being against skyscrapers, Unesco should be making representations about the quality of the skyscrapers and maybe they'd have a point. Give me a gherkin or a Lloyds bank building or even a Liverpool Echo building over a featureless box
Still Dreaming of a Harry Quinn

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2011, 12:24:48 pm »
I'd love to see something avant-garde like the Gaudi New York hotel design from 1908 built:



They should have built that in New York after 9/11. There was talk. It would have been a huge tourist attraction. I would have even gone to see it and I have no desire to set foot in the US ever again.
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Offline stewy17

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,549
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #48 on: December 5, 2011, 11:39:07 am »
Just read in the echo that London is also at risk of losing it's world heritage status as well due to the building of the 'shard of glass' building.

Can't help but agree with those who are saying "fuck unesco".

Forwards not backwards, innovation not preservation. Liverpool needs to continue to grow and keep on the heels of London and Manchester and Birmingham and these developments are a great way of doing that.

It is short sighted to say that there are already empty offices and apartments in town because that is as a result of the recession.

This is a great opportunity for the city and we should be thankful that Peel are willing to invest.

Our city has evolved unbelievably over the past 10 years, long may it continue, lets take advantage of all the investment and development we can before the tories well and truly get their claws in.


Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #49 on: December 5, 2011, 01:20:34 pm »

LIVERPOOL is not the only UK city under threat of losing its World Heritage status, the ECHO has learned.
 
Unesco inspectors will this week visit London to cast their eye over developments around the Tower of London and the Palace of Westminster.
 
Unesco is concerned their status as prized buildings of world importance is being damaged by the building of skyscrapers.
 
Liverpool was warned it will be stripped of its World Heritage Site status if a £5.5bn skyscraper plan goes ahead without “radical” changes when inspectors visited last month.
 
The three-day Unesco inspection, led by Ron van Oers, left the city with clear guidance “100%” that unless Peels’ Liverpool Waters project was radically changed, it will recommend the city be stripped of the accolade.
 
The inspectors’ report will be written by December 23 and then be sent to Liverpool council and Peel within two to four weeks.
 
Peel has previously said it will not compromise any further on the scheme after already dramatically reducing the number of skyscrapers.
 
It also reduced the height of the tallest planned building – the Shanghai tower – to 55 storeys.
 
Ultimate responsibility for the UK’s 28 World Heritage Sites falls to the department for culture, media and sport.
 
Heritage campaigner Wayne Colquhoun, who was instrumental in bringing inspectors to Liverpool, said the fact Unesco was now visiting the capital would reinforce the importance of heritage concerns.
 
He said: “If London is threatened then hopefully people in positions of power who think Liverpool is just a provincial outpost may sit up and take the matter seriously.”
 
Unesco has a number of specific concerns about London.
 
It has warned the Tower of London could be downgraded because of the negative impact of the Shard Of Glass building.
 
The 1,020ft Shard, a 66-storey office block next to London Bridge, will be the tallest building in Europe when it is finished.


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=liverpool-joined-by-london-in-world-heritage-status-battle%26method=full%26objectid=29893807%26siteid=100252-name_page.html#ixzz1ffMFjju3

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #50 on: December 5, 2011, 01:25:21 pm »
Get a cracking view of the work on that Shard building from the top of the Tate Modern.  That is one crane operator job that would give me the screaming heebie jeebies.  Perched in a tiny cab on a windy estuary a few hundred feet above the top of Europe's tallest building. No ta.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Snail

  • Disgusted by you. Snail murdering S h e e p. Ms Soppy Twat Potty Mouth. The Annabel Chong of RAWK's X-Factor. Likes giving Sir Cliff of Richard one.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,876
  • How are we
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #51 on: December 6, 2011, 04:39:25 pm »
LIVERPOOL is not the only UK city under threat of losing its World Heritage status, the ECHO has learned.
 
Unesco inspectors will this week visit London to cast their eye over developments around the Tower of London and the Palace of Westminster.
 
Unesco is concerned their status as prized buildings of world importance is being damaged by the building of skyscrapers.
 
Liverpool was warned it will be stripped of its World Heritage Site status if a £5.5bn skyscraper plan goes ahead without ?radical? changes when inspectors visited last month.
 
The three-day Unesco inspection, led by Ron van Oers, left the city with clear guidance ?100%? that unless Peels? Liverpool Waters project was radically changed, it will recommend the city be stripped of the accolade.
 
The inspectors? report will be written by December 23 and then be sent to Liverpool council and Peel within two to four weeks.
 
Peel has previously said it will not compromise any further on the scheme after already dramatically reducing the number of skyscrapers.
 
It also reduced the height of the tallest planned building ? the Shanghai tower ? to 55 storeys.
 
Ultimate responsibility for the UK?s 28 World Heritage Sites falls to the department for culture, media and sport.
 
Heritage campaigner Wayne Colquhoun, who was instrumental in bringing inspectors to Liverpool, said the fact Unesco was now visiting the capital would reinforce the importance of heritage concerns.
 
He said: ?If London is threatened then hopefully people in positions of power who think Liverpool is just a provincial outpost may sit up and take the matter seriously.?
 
Unesco has a number of specific concerns about London.
 
It has warned the Tower of London could be downgraded because of the negative impact of the Shard Of Glass building.
 
The 1,020ft Shard, a 66-storey office block next to London Bridge, will be the tallest building in Europe when it is finished.


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=liverpool-joined-by-london-in-world-heritage-status-battle%26method=full%26objectid=29893807%26siteid=100252-name_page.html#ixzz1ffMFjju3

Pretty sure London doesn't need the World Heritage status anyway. And the last time I saw it (back in June), the Shard looks incredible.

Offline Rome-77

  • Head case, more like! Wtf is wrong with me?
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,782
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #52 on: December 6, 2011, 06:49:18 pm »
Liverpool Waters.. jobs jobs jobs


Support Liverpool Waters! Sign this government epetition
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/23842

Liverpool Waters is a £5.5bn regeneration scheme that seeks to regenerate the north docks area of the city, potentially generating tens of thousands of jobs. Despite being supported by Liverpool City Council, the scheme is under threat by English Heritage and UNESCO, who object to the scheme as it stands. Plans have already been reduced in scale several times in response to the wishes of English Heritage. Government should endorse Liverpool City Council’s support for the scheme as it stands, refuse English Heritage/UNESCO requests for significant amendments and refuse to hold a public inquiry should one be requested.

Offline montysmum

  • Was brought up in an entirely queg-free area.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,694
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #53 on: December 6, 2011, 08:45:43 pm »
Does being a World  Heritage site give us anything of value, is there a grant or anything that would be withdrawn if we lost the status?

I dont think many tourists go on line and look to see what World Heritage sights they can go and visit in the NW.  They come because of our history, The Beatles, the football clubs...............

If they were so bloody concerned about how the waterfront looked then, as others have said, they should have protected the Three Graces from the monstrosity of a blob that is now in front of them.
"If the supporters love me, then it's only half as much as I love them." - Kenny Dalglish. Liverpool Manager

Offline Rome-77

  • Head case, more like! Wtf is wrong with me?
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,782
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #54 on: December 6, 2011, 09:15:09 pm »
Does being a World  Heritage site give us anything of value, is there a grant or anything that would be withdrawn if we lost the status?

I dont think many tourists go on line and look to see what World Heritage sights they can go and visit in the NW.  They come because of our history, The Beatles, the football clubs...............

If they were so bloody concerned about how the waterfront looked then, as others have said, they should have protected the Three Graces from the monstrosity of a blob that is now in front of them.


i think they look great. and they're not in front they,re side on.   http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=424453&page=111

« Last Edit: December 6, 2011, 09:22:54 pm by Rome-77 »

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,746
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #55 on: December 7, 2011, 09:17:25 am »
They look great in that shot.....pan to the right / get a wider shot....and they look shite....take the shot from the Albert Dock gates and they look fuckin horrendous.....context is everything
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline montysmum

  • Was brought up in an entirely queg-free area.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,694
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2011, 10:02:08 pm »
i think they look great. and they're not in front they,re side on.   http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=424453&page=111



Sorry, I was referring to the new Liverpool museum that has been built in front of the 'Three Graces' on the waterfront.  In my view it is a building that is completely out of context tio the the area, and where we once had that section of the waterfront that was acknowledged as being beautiful, with the three buildings clearly seen, they are now partially obstructed.

To add insult to injury the developers were fined something like £700,000 because they broke the rules regarding what could be built in that spot.  Anything built there was not supposed to obstruct the Three Graces view of the Pilot's Office, so could not be a tall structure.  The developers ignored this, built the museum and paid a fine rather than go to court.

Basically, they did what the Hell they wanted regardless of how suitable it was for the area and no one did anything to stop them.
"If the supporters love me, then it's only half as much as I love them." - Kenny Dalglish. Liverpool Manager

Online Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,327
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2011, 01:40:04 pm »
I believe it was the council who paid the fine, but I could be wrong.

I don't mind the new museum as such; in the context of the rebuilt waterfront it looks rather nice.  The problem is from the other side where it towers over the red brick buildings - it's totally eye jarring.  It should have been built down by Princes Dock, but I think that's reserved for the so called "World Square"...
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,339
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2011, 01:57:38 pm »
I believe it was the council who paid the fine, but I could be wrong.

I don't mind the new museum as such; in the context of the rebuilt waterfront it looks rather nice.  The problem is from the other side where it towers over the red brick buildings - it's totally eye jarring.  It should have been built down by Princes Dock, but I think that's reserved for the so called "World Square"...

One of the pleasures in Liverpool was sitting in the Pumphouse and looking at the magnificance of the Graces.

That's all fucked up now.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆☆

  • The name's Hall... Jonathan Hall. aka DangerPaddy. Olores de cebollas. Carly Cole Stalker. Likes to drink at Bar Fanny.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,048
  • Tapas y Cerveza y vino tinto!
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2011, 01:59:33 pm »
One of the pleasures in Liverpool was sitting in the Pumphouse and looking at the magnificance of the Graces.

That's all fucked up now.

Also ruined by being at the pumphouse...
Right which bastards eaten me Tapas?

http://hfdinfo.com/digital/

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,339
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2011, 02:18:27 pm »
Also ruined by being at the pumphouse...

Beer snob ;)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline And Could He Play

  • aka And Could He Play.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,448
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2011, 05:35:52 pm »
town centre is amazing now, look at it ten years ago, if someone could post up examples of then and now and look at the difference, leave it alone now, concentrate on other areas of the city. Building more apartments to lay empty, office blocks as well, on our floor alone there is about 15 empty offices. But they just keep building them.
www. ... .com      RAWK Clique Leader
Not saying my ex girlfriend was a slag but even the label in her knickers said next.

Offline Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆☆

  • The name's Hall... Jonathan Hall. aka DangerPaddy. Olores de cebollas. Carly Cole Stalker. Likes to drink at Bar Fanny.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,048
  • Tapas y Cerveza y vino tinto!
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2011, 05:38:36 pm »
One empty block next to me (Building 4 at St Pauls Sq).

Used to be able to see Tobacco Warehouse and Sandhills Station but now empty building where the fuckers leave lights on at night so can be hard to get to sleep. Must remember to complain about it.
Right which bastards eaten me Tapas?

http://hfdinfo.com/digital/

Offline And Could He Play

  • aka And Could He Play.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,448
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2011, 05:40:38 pm »
One empty block next to me (Building 4 at St Pauls Sq).

Used to be able to see Tobacco Warehouse and Sandhills Station but now empty building where the fuckers leave lights on at night so can be hard to get to sleep. Must remember to complain about it.

i saw an advert in a building facing viva brazil "offices rent free", thats how desperate they are.
www. ... .com      RAWK Clique Leader
Not saying my ex girlfriend was a slag but even the label in her knickers said next.

Offline Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆☆

  • The name's Hall... Jonathan Hall. aka DangerPaddy. Olores de cebollas. Carly Cole Stalker. Likes to drink at Bar Fanny.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,048
  • Tapas y Cerveza y vino tinto!
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2011, 05:43:10 pm »
Plenty round here offering rent free. Think Orleans Building has them, suppose it's to get them in long term.
Right which bastards eaten me Tapas?

http://hfdinfo.com/digital/

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2012, 06:41:39 pm »
LIVERPOOL’S World Heritage waterfront would be ”irreversibly damaged” if a huge £5.5bn skyscraper scheme goes ahead as planned, Unesco inspectors have warned.
 
A much anticipated report of an inspection mission to the city’s WHS has been published this morning.
 
As exclusively revealed by the ECHO this morning the report calls for developers Peel Holdings, the city council, and historic environment watchdog English Heritage to hammer out a compromise on the Liverpool Waters scheme to regenerate the city’s northern docklands.
 
But crucially the report does not say what will happen to the city’s WHS status if no changes are made to the project.
 
It is however highly critical of the scheme.
 
The report states: “The mission concludes that if the proposed Liverpool Waters scheme as outlined during the mission would be implemented, the World Heritage property would be irreversibly damaged, due to a serious deterioration of its architectural and town-planning coherence, a serious loss of historical authenticity, and an important loss of cultural significance.
 
“It strongly recommends that the three principal stakeholders, being Liverpool City Council, Peel Holdings and English Heritage, reconvene around the table and work out an adjusted scheme that includes the observations put forward in this report.”
 
It warns that he city’s skyline would be damaged by tall buildings.

“The historic docklands to the north complement those to the south, putting the Three Graces centre-stage in this more or less symmetrical city profile.
 
“This has a historical reason also, as the Three Graces were indeed at the heart of shipping and harbour operations during the height of its glory, surrounded by dockyards and port structures.
 
“Shifting this profile to the north by introducing a secondary cluster of high-rise, with towers three times the height of the Three Graces, would destroy this profile, relegating the Three Graces to playing second violin, and thereby losing an important visual and historical reference to the city’s glorious past.
 
“Hard-won views of the Three Graces from Kings Dock, over the residential buildings of Mann Island, will disappear against a backdrop of supertowers (including the “Shanghai Tower”).”

The inspectors also criticise the way the scheme would “fragment and isolate the different dock areas, instead of integrating them into one, continuous historic urban landscape”.
 
“The scheme, as presented by Peel to the mission team, does not reflect, nor evolve from the fragile and subtle yet significant heritage structures present in the dock areas; instead it treats the core and buffer zones very differently (in terms of building height), while introducing the same mass and typology throughout.”
 
It had been feared the report could recommend stripping the city of the status if the scheme is given planning permission.
 
Today Liverpool council leader Joe Anderson said: “Given the comments that they made when they were here, it is not really surprising that they came to that view.

“From the city’s point of view we want both - to retain the World Heritage Site status and to secure investment that the Peel project brings, so we will be working to reach a compromise.”
 
The city council’s planning committee is due to consider Peel’s application for the Liverpool Waters scheme on March, 6.
 
The Unesco report will play a key role in helping policy makers in the city council decide how to handle the application.
 
Unesco, the body which oversees World Heritage Sites, dispatched inspectors to the city in November over concerns that the huge project, which falls within the WHS, would damage its “outstanding universal value”.
 
Ron van Oers and Patricia Alberth from Unesco and Giancarlo Barbato, an Italian conservation architect from the International Committee on Monuments and Statues (ICOMOS), made a three-day visit.
 
Their report will be considered by Unesco’s World Heritage Committee in the summer.
 
Liverpool Waters features 9,000 apartments, hundreds of offices, hotels, bars, and a cruise terminal, as well as the 55-storey Shanghai Tower and other skyscrapers.
 
It involves two clusters of tall buildings - one near the city centre and a second further north.
 
English Heritage’s key objection is against the second cluster, based around part of the scheme known as Central Docks, which it wants Peel remove from the project.


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=liverpool-s-world-heritage-waterfront-would-be-irreversibly-damaged-by-liverpool-waters-skyscraper-scheme-unesco-warns%26method=full%26objectid=30189563%26siteid=100252-name_page.html#ixzz1kP0chXcy


Full Unesco report here. ( from November 2011)

http://blogs.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/dalestreetblues/2012/01/full-report-unesco-inspection.html
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:45:00 pm by Big Red Richie »

Online FlashingBlade

  • Organised a piss up in a brewery. Ended up in his pants with a KFC bucket. Future MP. Eats only Fish Heads and Tails. Can't spell 'DOMUM'. Now has no balls.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,776
  • From a Shankly Boy to a Klopp Man
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2012, 08:00:00 pm »
Demolish old heritage sites that are crumbling and useless and have no real future..build futuristic tower blocks like
other major cities and create lots of jobs!

sounds good! who in their right mind would argue with that?....well....those people who did in the Seventies when developers pointed out the uselessness of the stagnent Alber Dock and had plans to knock it down , fill it in and build office blocks!!


Offline It's Jimmy Corkhill

  • No more scrapping in Page Moss. Marxist.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,712
  • Hasta La Victoria Siempre....
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2012, 07:52:03 am »
Once again - UNESCO can fuck right off.

The people of the city come first. This will benefit us as a city. Enough said.
"I'm a people man. Only the people matter".
-Bill Shankly.

Offline sirjames

  • The Manly Eunuch
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,772
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2012, 09:31:21 am »
Do whats right for people of the city, not people that come visit once a year.
If we win, its normal because were Liverpool Football Club
Rafa  25/1/05

Offline scouserdave

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Grafton Ballroom conceived
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2012, 10:49:48 am »
The people who moan about Peel Holding's Liverpool Waters project haven't got a clue where it's going to be developed. If they did, they'd know that the area has been derelict for over 20 years.

By the way, that Mann Island building is a pile of shite.

I took this vid in 2007. Slap bang in the middle of the proposed Liverpool Waters project.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PzWa9hZahMA&amp;feature=plcp&amp;context=C39ec1c9UDOEgsToPDskK6XilppwMqvUVRPffMetOp" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PzWa9hZahMA&amp;feature=plcp&amp;context=C39ec1c9UDOEgsToPDskK6XilppwMqvUVRPffMetOp</a>

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2012, 11:21:39 am »
THE Three Graces would play “second violin” to the huge £5.5bn Liverpool waters development if it is approved, Unesco inspectors have warned.
 
The inspectors also warned Liverpool’s World Heritage Site would be “damaged beyond repair” if the plan goes ahead.
 
A much-anticipated report of an inspection mission to the city’s WHS, which covers the waterfront, parts of the docks, and key areas in the city centre, was published yesterday.
 
As exclusively revealed by the ECHO yesterday the report also calls for developers Peel Holdings, the city council, and historic environment watchdog English Heritage to hammer out a compromise on Liverpool Waters, which aims to regenerate the city’s northern docklands.
 
Today Liverpool council leader Joe Anderson appealed to Peel and English Heritage to meet for crunch talks and reach a compromise.
 
While the report does not say what will happen to the city’s WHS status if no changes are made to the project, it is highly critical of the scheme.
 
The report states: “The mission concludes that if the proposed Liverpool Waters scheme as outlined during the mission would be implemented, the World Heritage property would be irreversibly damaged, due to a serious deterioration of its architectural and town-planning coherence, a serious loss of historical authenticity, and an important loss of cultural significance.
 
“The mission will not support the Liverpool Waters scheme in its current outline, as it will be developed at the expense of the city’s heritage.”
 
Liverpool Waters features 9,000 apartments, hundreds of offices, hotels, bars, and a cruise terminal, as well as the 55-storey Shanghai Tower.
 
The report warns that the city’s skyline would be damaged by tall buildings.
 
“The historic docklands to the north complement those to the south, putting the Three Graces centre-stage in this more or less symmetrical city profile. Shifting this profile to the north by introducing a secondary cluster of high-rise, with towers three times the height of the Three Graces, would destroy this profile, relegating the Three Graces to playing second violin, and thereby losing an important visual and historical reference to the city’s glorious past.”
 
A key sticking point is the number of tall buildings. The scheme has two clusters – one near the city centre and a second further north.

English Heritage’s key objection is against the second cluster, based around Central Docks, which it wants Peel to remove from the project. Unesco support this view in their report.
 
The report also praises the recent developments at the Pier Head which Unesco had concerns over in 2006.
 
Cllr Anderson said: “I have always believed there is a way forward which will allow us to redevelop the North Liverpool Docks and secure the massive investment and badly-needed new jobs, and to also preserve our World Heritage status. Peel have already made significant alterations to their proposals since drawing up the original plans.
 
“Unesco’s delegation found the conservation of our World Heritage site has improved since their last visit in 2006 with our new developments at the Pier Head, at Liverpool One and in the Ropewalks area.”

Heritage campaigner Wayne Colquhoun said: “World Heritage Site status is not a badge it is an honour.
 
“This is a major opportunity to withdraw the planning application and get Peel Holdings to go back to the drawing board.”
 
The city council’s planning committee is due to consider Peel’s application for the Liverpool Waters scheme on March, 6.
 
Peel declined to comment.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=unesco-inspectors-attack-liverpool-waters-scheme%26method=full%26objectid=30193588%26siteid=100252-name_page.html#ixzz1kT3qkCy2

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2012, 11:58:30 am »
Do whats right for people of the city, not people that come visit once a year.

A lot of people are missing the point I think.  Liverpool is currently fighting hard to win the right to upgrade the cruise terminal.  The city's world heritage status is based on the waterfront vista which, as with all great maritime cities, is at it's best when approaching from the sea.  There is a danger that the vista that greets visitors as they sail up the mersey will cease to be the three graces and the docks with the cathedral hovering above them and become a non-descript cluster of tower blocks positioned between the centre and the mouth of the Mersey.

The city is now so reliant on tourism that what is right for people who visit once a year may also be what is best for the city.  In fact it is far more likely that the two rights are coincident rather than mutually exclusive. 

The Liverpool Waters site may be redundant and look an eyesore from up close, but this is all about how the city looks from the river, on postcards and all importantly in those brochures (cruise, holiday or business prospectus).  The aim is not to prevent the development of the site but merely to have a more sympathetic development which does not adversely impact one of the city's key selling points.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline JerseyKloppite

  • HE'S THE DADDY!!! Staff Room Gimp. Very excited, but cheapened, mail order scam victim with bling headphones. Lovespuds. Jaqen H'ghar, the Mod without a Face.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,426
  • Exiled to Formby
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2012, 12:05:06 pm »
A lot of people are missing the point I think.  Liverpool is currently fighting hard to win the right to upgrade the cruise terminal.  The city's world heritage status is based on the waterfront vista which, as with all great maritime cities, is at it's best when approaching from the sea.  There is a danger that the vista that greets visitors as they sail up the mersey will cease to be the three graces and the docks with the cathedral hovering above them and become a non-descript cluster of tower blocks positioned between the centre and the mouth of the Mersey.

The city is now so reliant on tourism that what is right for people who visit once a year may also be what is best for the city.  In fact it is far more likely that the two rights are coincident rather than mutually exclusive. 

The Liverpool Waters site may be redundant and look an eyesore from up close, but this is all about how the city looks from the river, on postcards and all importantly in those brochures (cruise, holiday or business prospectus).  The aim is not to prevent the development of the site but merely to have a more sympathetic development which does not adversely impact one of the city's key selling points.

Spot on. Don't think it's as simple as Money for the local economy vs a pretty set of buildings for tourists.

A balance needs to be struck between retaining Liverpool's identity and selling points, and desperately needed development. The main problem for this is the timing, I feel. 5 years ago, UNESCO would be in a stronger position, but now with jobs and an economic boost at an absolute premium, I expect this to go ahead.

I've not come down one way or the other, I think it's clearly a very difficult decision, but one would hope a compromise could be reached.

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,746
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2012, 09:38:29 am »
The city is now so reliant on tourism that what is right for people who visit once a year may also be what is best for the city. 

The most pertinent sentence in the thread.
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Online Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,327
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2012, 12:27:34 pm »
I don't mind a couple of skyscrapers - way past time we had some and we need to show we can move with the times.  As for the Three Graces playing second fiddle, then why in the name of God Awful Fuck did they allow the Man Island Project??

That said, I don't trust Peel Holdings as far as I could piss.  There's still a lot of businesses in the area they plan to build on and I'm tired of Liverpudlians being treated like second class citizens in their own city.  Let's not pretend for a minute any of Liverpool Waters is meant for the natives.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline skooma

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,486
  • Our change into rain is no change at all.
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2012, 08:39:43 pm »
What are the benefits of being a WHS? Some idiots on the continent telling you what you can and can't build in your populated and growing city because it's doesn't go with the decor?

Online CornerFlag

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,625
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #76 on: February 5, 2012, 08:33:50 pm »
UNESCO do realise that, over the water, there's going to be just as many (if not more) of these supposed monstrosities and that those visiting Liverpool will have that as a view.  Pretty hard to see the Liverpool waterfront from the Echo Arena.  I mean I get the point, I really do but I thought the majority of the tallest buildings were about a mile west of the Graces.  It'd be fairly good as a passenger on a cruiseship to see the old Fort Perch Rock on one side with new builds on the other then sailing further upstream and having the complete opposite with the skyscrapers in Birkenhead and the Three Graces in the heart of the City.
My Twitter

Last time I went there I saw masturbating chimpanzees. Whether you think that's worthy of £22 is up to you. All I'll say is I now have an annual pass.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #77 on: February 5, 2012, 10:21:51 pm »
UNESCO do realise that, over the water, there's going to be just as many (if not more) of these supposed monstrosities and that those visiting Liverpool will have that as a view.  Pretty hard to see the Liverpool waterfront from the Echo Arena.  I mean I get the point, I really do but I thought the majority of the tallest buildings were about a mile west of the Graces.  It'd be fairly good as a passenger on a cruiseship to see the old Fort Perch Rock on one side with new builds on the other then sailing further upstream and having the complete opposite with the skyscrapers in Birkenhead and the Three Graces in the heart of the City.

You are assuming that the World Heritage site is just the Three Graces it is not, the full description is complex but far more waterfront than that.  It also includes city centre buildings that are not on the waterfront but are part of Liverpool's seafaring mercantile heritage.  Crucially as far as this development is concerned, Stanley Dock is included.

What are the benefits of being a WHS? Some idiots on the continent telling you what you can and can't build in your populated and growing city because it's doesn't go with the decor?

I think you fundamentally misunderstand.  One of they key benefits (apart from all the free publicity) is access to loads of free planning and conservation advice from world experts in the field.  The council are still free to make their own decisions. 
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #78 on: February 6, 2012, 06:16:49 am »
Demolish old heritage sites that are crumbling and useless and have no real future..build futuristic tower blocks like
other major cities and create lots of jobs!

sounds good! who in their right mind would argue with that?....well....those people who did in the Seventies when developers pointed out the uselessness of the stagnent Alber Dock and had plans to knock it down , fill it in and build office blocks!!


Haven't lived in Liverpool for ten years. So no idea, but have old buildings been demolished for new eyesores?
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Online Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,327
Re: Unesco set to strip Liverpool of World Heritage Status
« Reply #79 on: February 6, 2012, 05:46:57 pm »
Haven't lived in Liverpool for ten years. So no idea, but have old buildings been demolished for new eyesores?

Illiad demolished a building in a conservation zone, in Sir Thomas Street, to build a boutique hotel.  It wasn't listed and campaigners requested some Heritage dude come up to assess the facade for listing.  About a week before he turned up, Illiad had the facade trashed - "prepatory work for demolition" - so there was nothing left to list.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art