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End of season round table debate (*)

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It's a war

A war for talent at every level. On the field, off the field are we a club with the right talents in the right places or are we just a ship with people in positions but none of them competent?

I'm at a loss. For once I cannot fathom a way forward that is logical or sensible which doesn't carry a risk. Rip it up and start again is risky as we don't know what is working behind the scenes to repair those being seen week in week out on the field

There are no easy answers. If by some miracle Brendan stays, what does he hold on to that will translate to positive showing on the pitch? He has not been able to show the mercurial sense of leadership and control we desire. The inspirations of glories past haven't come to the forefront either so my key question to answer become what is there to lose by losing Brendan? What is there to retain sticking with this manager?

If the risk is that we don't have someone lined up then we've had that risk before. The answer provided then, as per what's already been stated, was Brendan. 3 seasons on and we are shadow of what we saw from Jan 2013 onwards. Clearly there is no easy fix to the apparent weaknesses of the side and there is no easy fix to the manager situation either. Anyone coming in has to be ready to bring an ethos of winning and instilling that mentality across the board.

It's been a horrible feeling driving home from Stoke today. I bloody hate Stoke. I saw our captain for the last time. I hope I've seen the lack of fight in the team for the last time too

John C:

--- Quote from: Col on May 24, 2015, 09:30:20 pm ---Brendan Rodgers, the head coach of one of the most storied clubs in the world, had potential. He was not a winner, but he might be some day.
Players were brought in - Emre Can, Lazar Markovic, Alberto Moreno, Javi Manquillo, who all had potential, but were not capable of driving the team forwards immediately. The four Premier-League proven players brought in, only one of whom has actually won anything in England, all flopped unreservedly.

--- End quote ---
Great post mate and the bit in bold is the killer line for me as an old arse that witnessed continuity succeed which even included a young Kenny.

My opinion from when I joined RAWK in 2006 has changed, I use to think we deserved a place at the top of the table, now I believe we have to earn it. Mismanagement, miss-spent funds, distractions and deviations have turned us in to a swamp of misfits.

Thank fuck for this thread on a day like today


--- Quote from: No666 on May 24, 2015, 10:42:27 pm ---As I've posted elsewhere I don't think FSG's own philosophies did come through - at least not unadulterated. The problem - from day one - was that they thought they knew what they needed to do to fix Liverpool but they lacked confidence.

--- End quote ---

I think their philosophies are largely based around being smarter than everyone else, finding a statistical niche that hasn't been exploited elsewhere, and trusting the manager to turn potential into bona fide talent so the financials look good.

There are fundamental flaws with that, though:

Firstly, that football is a far more fluid game than baseball, which is where their stats-based analysis approach to sporting improvement is largely based;

Second, that they don't have a football person on the ground running the show, and they don't have anyone at all with a background in creating a successful footbaling environment who's willing to tell them what needs to be done (and if they did, would they listen to him?);

Third, the whole "buy small, improve, sell big" approach works well when you're in a league where your "small" may well be too "big" for another team to challenge for a player's signature (take Portugal as an example), but when you're up against clubs like Chelsea - 26 players out on loan this year, was it? Profits on Schurrle, Luiz, Lukaku, De Bruyne etc - and City, who can essentially stockpile young talent without actually using them (Johnson, Rodwell etc), then you either have to overpay for your players, or you don't find getting the right calibre of player as easily as you'd like.

Fourth, there need to be exceptions to the rules. Goalscorers cost more money, and demand higher wages. That's a quite simple opportunity cost - to have more effective strikers, you lose out elsewhere because you need to focus more money in this area. Gambling on strikers - as we have done, massively, this season - can backfire hugely. Our #1 is extremely injury prone, our #2 is dear between the ears, our #3 is as mobile as a portaloo (they do move, in theory), and our #4 is less threatening than a last-minute Dejan Lovren 40-yarder. We spent more money on a mid-table central defender this year - after losing Luis Suarez - than we did on replacing Luis Suarez.

Fifth, and this is the one that hits home hardest, is the fact that the man in charge of pulling everything together has no record of being able to change a group of players into a group of players that play good football, and then on to be a group of players that can cross the line. Furthermore, Rodgers has shown little sign of being able to win big games, or learn from lessons during those games he's lost.

The gap between FSG to Rodgers is too big, and needs to be filled with at least one top-level football person. The gap between Rodgers and a successful coach is also too big, and doesn't seem to be closing anytime soon. It stands to reason, then, that the gap between our team and the best teams in the league, is also fairly noticeable. There are holes that need to be filled, and FSG need to be humble enough to accept they need help from proper football people at the top end of the structure. From there, there needs to be a top-down approach to club management, leaving Rodgers to strictly deal with the coaching side of things - which is the bit he's exceptional at.

Col, my take - FSG have have shown a willingness to acknowledge the gap in their knowledge and as we know have consulted widely, perhaps too widely. (Kenny Dalglish is just one of those consultees and continues to be: they brought him back to the board not just as a sop to the fans.) So they are willing to listen. But then - fatally - they fail to choose decisively among the differing opinions. They are at sea.
Ian Ayre bears considerable responsibility for a number of failures during his tenure. With an opinionated, vocal, football-savvy MD, I doubt quite so many mistakes would have been made.


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