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Safe Standing ( split from: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield)

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Vulmea:

--- Quote from: Peter McGurk on January 21, 2013, 05:14:56 pm ---The reason for all-seating is to control hooliganism [as stated in the Taylor Report]

And there's a big difference between watching a performing seal and participating in a special night at Anfield. Everyone is part of it. Even watching it on the box.

--- End quote ---

thats what I said - the point I tried to make and clearly failed is that control is not simply managed by seat numbers and id as you alluded to - its also managed by people sitting down and their mental state being less aggressive and less volatile and its the main reason for the police not wanting to allow standing to be re-introduced. People are easier to manage when sitting down.

one of the beauties of the old ground was that everybody was in it together - one of the reasons there was no clock and no big screens was ebcause it was all about what was on the pitch - corporate clients bringing their wallets to watch the locals create an atmosphere wasn't really on the agenda - participating in - you really believe that?

Money rules though.


--- Quote from: CraigDS on January 21, 2013, 06:01:19 pm ---I'm not sure that's the right way to look at it.

For one its talking about getting it back to how it once was for other reasons than to bring in corporates. Secondly the Kop has always been a big draw to visitors - hence you see people getting pics towards it, etc. all the time. It what happens when something is 'different' to the normal which the Kop once was.

Also, it's not just scousers who will be on it, and plenty of scousers will be in the 'normal' seats and in the corporates too so looking at it as a scousers in the Kop and everyone else in other seats doesn't ring true to me.

--- End quote ---

I didn't know there was a right way? I thought it was just about pinions?

Getting back to how it was you'd need a time machine, we move on. You can't just select the nice bits - the atmosphere was created because of the circumstances people lived and worked in, because of the conditions on the terraces. You can create a better atmosphere at the ground, the Germans have shown that but it shouldn't be about reproducing anything it should be about building something for the here and now.

If the away support want to come and admire thats ok - mutual respect I can go with that - its a different ball game when your performing on demand as some form of vacarious involvement for the corporate boxes.

the jibe at the scouse accent was to emphasise the point - it wasn't to suggest the kop is only populated by scousers merely to demonstrate the attitude /disenagement of those engaged in the voyeurism.

If I have to explain the distaste its probably not worth it.

CraigDS:

--- Quote from: Vulmea on January 21, 2013, 07:41:39 pm ---I didn't know there was a right way? I thought it was just about pinions?

--- End quote ---

Of course it is about opinions, hence me saying I'm not sure that is the right way to look at it.


--- Quote ---Getting back to how it was you'd need a time machine, we move on. You can't just select the nice bits - the atmosphere was created because of the circumstances people lived and worked in, because of the conditions on the terraces. You can create a better atmosphere at the ground, the Germans have shown that but it shouldn't be about reproducing anything it should be about building something for the here and now.

--- End quote ---

No one is talking about getting back to exactly how it was, I'm not sure that has been suggested has it? No one wants that really, and it just wouldn't happen in this day and age after all that's gone on to try and wipe out that form of terracing. This isn't even about bringing terracing back at all, in any way, shape or form. It is about bringing back cheaper priced tickets, making it available to more fans, and hopefully bringing back a better atmosphere in the Kop to what it once was.

It may not get back to the heights it once was, but it could be about 1,000,000 better than it is currently.


--- Quote ---If the away support want to come and admire thats ok - mutual respect I can go with that - its a different ball game when your performing on demand as some form of vacarious involvement for the corporate boxes.

--- End quote ---

It's not just the away support. Our own fans covert the Kop, not just those coming for the one match but those who stood on it for years do. No one is suggesting that it should be performing on demand at all. The point being made was that a Kop in full voice is something people would pay to come and see even without the game being on. Christ I've been a ST holder for 20 years and even I'd still pay to come and watch 90 minutes of a Kop in full voice.

The corps paying to see that is a happy coincidence of getting the Kop back in form, not the reason for doing so.


--- Quote ---the jibe at the scouse accent was to emphasise the point - it wasn't to suggest the kop is only populated by scousers merely to demonstrate the attitude /disenagement of those engaged in the voyeurism.

If I have to explain the distaste its probably not worth it.

--- End quote ---

It doesn't emphasize any point though, as there really isn't a point along those lines to be made from what I can see.

Peter McGurk:

--- Quote from: Vulmea on January 21, 2013, 07:41:39 pm ---thats what I said - the point I tried to make and clearly failed is that control is not simply managed by seat numbers and id as you alluded to - its also managed by people sitting down and their mental state being less aggressive and less volatile and its the main reason for the police not wanting to allow standing to be re-introduced. People are easier to manage when sitting down.

one of the beauties of the old ground was that everybody was in it together - one of the reasons there was no clock and no big screens was ebcause it was all about what was on the pitch - corporate clients bringing their wallets to watch the locals create an atmosphere wasn't really on the agenda - participating in - you really believe that?

Money rules though.


--- End quote ---

I think youíre arguing for arguingís sake there. The point is: sitting down, names addresses, whatever, is all about controlling Hooliganism - not necessarily safety and not out of respect for the 96. Reading the report, anyone can see that the second half is primarily about hooliganism - not Hillsborough.

Donít you see? If all-seater stadiums were all about safety and Hillsborough and not having it happen again, Taylor would have been clearly pointing at standing as the cause of Hillsborough. Which it most definitely was not.

And come on. Whatís the problem with some bloke being able to afford a party of ten for a special occasion? Or even every match? It doesnít turn him into a stove-pipe capitalist. And pretty much 90% of the crowd will be paying 'normal' prices anyway.


--- Quote from: Vulmea on January 21, 2013, 07:41:39 pm ---
I didn't know there was a right way? I thought it was just about pinions?

Getting back to how it was you'd need a time machine, we move on. You can't just select the nice bits - the atmosphere was created because of the circumstances people lived and worked in, because of the conditions on the terraces. You can create a better atmosphere at the ground, the Germans have shown that but it shouldn't be about reproducing anything it should be about building something for the here and now.

If the away support want to come and admire thats ok - mutual respect I can go with that - its a different ball game when your performing on demand as some form of vacarious involvement for the corporate boxes.

the jibe at the scouse accent was to emphasise the point - it wasn't to suggest the kop is only populated by scousers merely to demonstrate the attitude /disenagement of those engaged in the voyeurism.

If I have to explain the distaste its probably not worth it.

--- End quote ---

This isnít about going back to the old days. This is about getting access to the match at prices we can afford. If the here and now is about studiously studying tactics with your gob shut then so be it - but I very much doubt it.

Snaily:
Hi Peter

Iím new to the forum, but have been very interested in your thoughts on the stadium and the area and would like your opinion on a few of my thoughts from someone who is an irregular visitor to anfield.

I assume the development of the main stand and annie road will be similar in shape and size to that at st james park, do you think the club will take the opportunity to extend the pitch and surround to make it suitable for UEFA finals?  I feel it would be a wasted opportunity not to.

Is a two tier corner stand between the annie and centenary likely and so is 60 to 65 thousand the most likely final capacity figure.

What is the potential for creating a retail/bar/restaurant area around gilman street with a public square adjacent to the new main stand.  Following on from this can some shops on WBR be demolished to facilitate a potential future 5000 capacity increase to the kop, including rerouting WBR.  Maybe it romanticism but I feel the kop should be a significant section of the stadium and not be dwarfed by the other stands.  A 17000 seat kop would be an awesome sight.

Should the club use the view over the park at the annie road to create some high level bars and restaurants and possible roof top terraces that would be popular attractions all week not just on match day.

Finally, What is the likelhood of reopening or creating new rail stations to service both anfield and goodison and improve the commute to the town centre and dockland redevelopments?

Thanks 

Peter McGurk:

--- Quote from: Snaily on January 21, 2013, 10:01:43 pm ---Hi Peter

Iím new to the forum, but have been very interested in your thoughts on the stadium and the area and would like your opinion on a few of my thoughts from someone who is an irregular visitor to anfield.

I assume the development of the main stand and annie road will be similar in shape and size to that at st james park, do you think the club will take the opportunity to extend the pitch and surround to make it suitable for UEFA finals?  I feel it would be a wasted opportunity not to.

Is a two tier corner stand between the annie and centenary likely and so is 60 to 65 thousand the most likely final capacity figure.

What is the potential for creating a retail/bar/restaurant area around gilman street with a public square adjacent to the new main stand.  Following on from this can some shops on WBR be demolished to facilitate a potential future 5000 capacity increase to the kop, including rerouting WBR.  Maybe it romanticism but I feel the kop should be a significant section of the stadium and not be dwarfed by the other stands.  A 17000 seat kop would be an awesome sight.

Should the club use the view over the park at the annie road to create some high level bars and restaurants and possible roof top terraces that would be popular attractions all week not just on match day.

Finally, What is the likelhood of reopening or creating new rail stations to service both anfield and goodison and improve the commute to the town centre and dockland redevelopments?

Thanks

--- End quote ---

see link below

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