Topic: Some quality/important posts you may have missed

[annieroader]

Maybe that's because you keep posting it in the wrong place? And we really don't appreciate being compared to Nazis, that's not on.
You could always ask for help with it rather than throwing around pretty vile insults.
I'll just assume for now that you're going to ask nicely, and will start a new thread with it.

If you wouldnt mind that would be nice thank you x

[The 5th Benitle]

If you wouldnt mind that would be nice thank you x

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=309264.0
There you go.

[JP-65]

Have to say, they're mostly nice Nazi's.....IMHO

[BreakfastPercy]

Daws with a superb explanation of the workings of 3-4-1-2

I’ve taken specific interest in the new shape of the team as it is one of my favourite formations. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by a back 3 and particularly the Libero role. The beauty of the Libero is the way he pushes the whole team forward once on the ball and allows players to split, expanding the size of the shape to utilise as much of the pitch as possible. To me, amongst other things in the 3-4-1-2, that comes with a massive benefit as not only the width of the pitch is operated, but the depth improves as well as the other two defenders drop in behind him and the midfield duo can be squeezed higher up the pitch causing a domino effect which of course creates more time and space (TAS) for players as individuals and the team collectively.

How we provide width – The counter attack

I’m unsure where people are getting this idea that the shape is narrow. Certainly, the functionalities of the formation allow it to become narrow swiftly when possession is turned over and lost (and I’ll move onto that) but when we are talking about being with the ball, it is actually quite open. The key to making sure we have the required width is of course the wing backs, but the responsibility does not fall solely upon them. Let’s not forget that with only one player exclusively occupying the wide areas rather than two, the wing backs have the job to try and remain level with the ball, or be goal side of it (our goal side when defending, theirs on the attack), so we are asking a lot of them, especially in terms of work-rate.


So they need help. The rest of the side looks pretty narrow but as we can see from BPs positional maps that what the central defender sanctions is for his mates either side of him to split and almost play as more conventional full backs which allows the wing backs to be up ahead of the ball opening up the pitch higher up the field for the #10 and forwards to have more TAS. Also, if you have mobile, pacey strikers as we do, you will find that the channels will often be worked by these guys in the final third on the counter-attack in the gaps that have been left by the opposition overloading the flank before the turnover of possession. With players like Suarez and Sturridge, who, if they receive the ball in space (which having one wide man allows them to have when we counter-attack) can run diagonally at centre halves and often reign supreme in 1v1 situations, then you have a real weapon on the counter attack as we saw when Sturridge drifted wide and beat his man to feed Suarez against Sunderland.

On the ball – Playing the Liverpool Way

I think that’s what people worry about when they fear we are narrow, our counter attack. There can be little to suggest that in extended periods of possession we lack width because it becomes much easier for the wing backs to take up good positions when the ball isn’t being moved quickly back to front and vice versa. With the middle of the pitch being quite congested with a double pivot, a #10 and two central strikers, then the wide positions become quite abundant with TAS because the opposition get sucked into the middle and they lose shape becoming too central, leaving the wide areas for the wingers to receive the ball fairly unhindered and then reopen the defensive side causing them to lose shape further and leave space centrally.

If we look at your statistics in regards to possession in R1, L1, R2, and L2 Percy, then we can see that it is the the ‘2’ position, deeper on the park, that we see a majority of possession in the games we played 3-4-1-2 and this makes sense when you consider where you want your wing backs to have the balance between defence and attack. This may on the face of it look unspectacular and you may imagine that higher percentages in the ‘1’ zones would be more beneficial as it would suggest we have possession higher up the pitch and in more dangerous areas, but that wouldn’t be strictly true at all. As Percy has said, goals are not actually scored very often from crosses and in those positions then you have one of two options: Cross the ball/go backwards. A good run may allow you to play the ball inside but often this will have to come from deeper and relies on a central midfielder to make a bit of a gutsy run into an area where it is very tight and your best hope may be winning a penalty. So is possession in the ‘1’ areas actually all that significant? Not really, unless you are a Stoke or Fat Sam West Ham.

So, we know we need to provide width in order to open up the game but the width further up the pitch is not actually all that relevant to the way we want to play. To an extent that’s where the 4-3-3 can fall down and requires excellent attacking full backs. The two either side of the striker usually dip inside and allow the full backs to provide the width in the R2/L2 positions. That, the position where we are seeing our wing backs see most of the ball, is the key area for width to be generated.

Creating - Getting in behind from R2/L2

If you look at the shape as a whole then we see a heptagon, which can expand and contract simply by stepping towards or away from the centre circle. When we do this, we can see that the shape remain much the same only the size of it increases or decreases. Therefore, the width is always held in the midfield rather than in more advanced positions as I’ve alluded to.

The effect this creates is that the oppositions full backs (assuming they are playing with a back four) and drawn towards our wingbacks, higher up the pitch and wider than they would prefer when we are in possession of the football.  This leaves large gaps between the full back and his inside centre half which is where diagonal runs and straight balls come into play, as do the opposite. Opening up this area of the pitch means that the passing lanes are bigger and the runs can either come from a central position around the back of the centre half (straight runs – diagonal pass) or a striker coming central from the flank (diagonal inside run – straight pass) and makes the pass from deeper easier and more clinical. The possession in R2/L2 is actually quite fundamental in opening up the areas of the pitch where we can be most dangerous ahead and inside of them.

Overall Shape


http://eplindex.com/42126/liverpools-3-4-1-2-not-so-different-after-all-tactical-analysis.html

Take a look at the second image from Opta which I believe has popped up in the thread already (though it says it's too large to add as attachment)showing where players took their most touches. As I mentioned if we look at the parameters of the shape (a slightly distorted/squashed heptagon) we can see a back three using the whole width of the pitch, then a central chamber with width provided just ahead of it (wing backs), the depth of the #10 then another narrow area where the strikers operate.

If anything, we start wide and the shape narrows as you get higher up the pitch (almost like a Xmas tree). The idea behind the shape is that you pull wide players high and wide when they press us. This leaves many areas between the lines to be played in allowing TAS for the attacking central 3; these are dangerous players who you want playing between the width of the posts in order to be most potent and by drawing players away from them using the split centre halves and the wing backs, you are employing them to their full capacity (I’ll get onto that too).

So whilst we are looking at the overall shape, let’s for a moment think about the turnover in possession when we give away the ball in acceptable situations (this will habitually be in the R1/L1 zones or whilst trying to play in behind the oppo high up the pitch). As I aforementioned, when teams lose the ball their shape contracts in order to try and squeeze the pitch and allow the opponents as little TAS as possible (this leads to ‘forced errors’ where the pressure applied constitutes to the player not having the TAS to pick a pass or emerge with the ball – as seen in the swarm effect employed by Barca, Bayern, and the excellent Arsenal team of the early noughties). Alternatively teams can drop off and defend deep but back-peddling when possession is turned over can allow space ahead of the defenders as a counter occurs and can lead to allowing too much TAS too close to goal.

Let’s assume that with defenders as aggressive in stepping up as Toure, Sakho and Agger, we are going to employ the former and rather than back off we will try and reduce the gap between the midfielders and the centre halves, as it seems the most reasonable way to go about the turnover rather than dropping off (which suits other defenders). What the overall shape allows the team to do is step inwards towards the centre circle in order to compress it at its full capacity. The centre backs step up and inwards (although the Libero – likely Agger – will drop from the play-starting position to the sweeping one) the wing backs drop inside and the attacking players shuffle back towards the centre of the pitch.

This means the shape remains practically the same only smaller and the players have simple instructions to follow upon the turnover (which can be the most disorientating part of the game for players – hence so many goals are the product of good counter attacking footy). Making the press and compression of the game easier is a healthy way to coach the players as it prevents over-thinking and a player that knows exactly what he is supposed to do will often look calmer than one who is in two or three minds – the reaction speed of the brain is significantly quicker if the decision process is removed from its criteria. This shape allows that to happen in both turnover phases.

But as usual I digress towards principles of play rather than the shape. The footnote being though that this shape allows easier decision making for players because the instructions are straight forward: loss of the ball in acceptable situations – step towards the centre circle, win the ball and step away from it (except for the players in the central engine, who can remain compact). I know I’m beginning to rattle on, which consequently means we could lose days if I don’t get to the point quicker, and time is money. Apologies, moving on.

The inner shape – Depth

A quick overview of the area that seems to be the subject of much debate in this and other threads – how we shape up through the middle of the pitch. Referring your eyes again to the Opta image above, we can see as the image notes that we have six lines of play. This is creating depth, which like width we can squeeze or expand by moving high up or deeper on the pitch. It also mentions the lack of vertical or horizontal lines between players, which in turn means that passing angles are more open and flexible, especially for square passes which a possession side will make a lot of. The depth will predominately come from first the libero, then the midfield double pivot, and the #10. This is the central engine.

With a forward pairing we are allowing lots of lateral movement off of each other and each can provide depth or width as the situation deems required. Notably, both have lots of options in terms of movements. Neither has to worry about being a focal point of attack or a reference point as they work in tandem much like the double pivot in midfield, nor do they worry about holding width as they might in a 433. This allows the freedom of the players to express themselves and they can work off each other, dropping into other areas to work with others or go down the empty channels. Defensively, this is a decisional minefield – not only are you each 1v1, but do you go with the man when he moves or hold your zone? If you do go with him and he beats you are in serious trouble leaving your mate outnumbered 2v1 or leaving a massive hole for players coming from deeper to exploit. It’s nightmarish for any centre half, particularly when its talented individuals like Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge.

Going back to the central chamber and indeed the requirements of the players during a negative turnover, we have to look at that central overload. We have what constitutes to be a diamond through the middle of the park made and this means that in all likelihood we are one over numerically and therefore positioning the overload effect. This advantage in numbers means that the swarm press is the one we should be deploying. With the overall shape being squeezed this should provide a smaller area for us to cover and for the opponents to play in, therefore the press in the middle of the pitch should be tenacious and aggressive. At the moment Ilike others, am not convinced that it is, but that is down to the players that occupy it rather than any fault with the system or the principles of play. Presently, it’s too stretched in there, and we’ll have a look at the reasons why shortly.

In an attacking sense, it’s about support play through the middle and the penetrative play comes from slightly wider, more advanced positions (which is opened up by the lone wide men as I’ve covered). Essentially, we look to suck in players as we progress higher up the pitch. The story of an attack begins by endeavouring to tempt the opposition high and wide to open up the space in the middle for our overload to take more effect, but once it’s there, the support play (which is about providing an easy short option for the player on the ball) then draws the opposition towards it and opens up the space on the flanks again and between their defence and midfield, as the strikers push forward and stretch the game lengthways the #10 provides the depth in between the lines of their defence and attack. Barcelona epitomised how to do this, and their 4-3-3 shape is actually remarkably similar to our 3-4-1-2 only the #10 is higher up the pitch (false 9) and the two strikers start from wider positions, moving from out to in in rather than vice versa.  Peps Barca was pretty much a 3-4-1 with a split 2.

How do the individuals fit in?

One of the most important factors in the decision to go with this shape is the players we have available. I have harped on before about the importance of the role of the players and that fact that a formation is literally just a structure for which to apply your principles of play within and can be tweaked with and changed without a massive difference in the way a team actually goes about trying to win/draw football matches. I like the 3-4-1-2, but I also like the 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2. None of them are any more attacking/defensive than the others and just offer you slightly different ways manipulate principles and the players.

I won’t go through how this benefits or hinders every single player in the squad obviously, but a quick glance at a few key players that have been the subject of discussion this season and since the new formation.

Starting with the backline, I have mentioned how the system should suit three of our four senior centre backs, the one I missed out being Martin Skrtel. For me he is the most interesting because it both helps and hinders him. He is not the Libero that we want to step out from the back, but he has done quite well overall within the shape because of the cover he is offered. One thing I can guarantee is that he will play nowhere other than central, because he doesn’t like receiving the ball on the touchline and he hates space inside him (or outside). The fact he has a player nearby on each side suits him down the ground because it means players can’t get down the side of him and he rarely has to turn. Being central, all he has to worry about is attacking the ball when in the air and patrolling a small area of space aggressively. It suits him the same way patrolling a small area of space suits him in a deep backline. For me though, Agger will come in and play there as he can step out gracefully and push the midfielders up in front of him. This formation allows us to play three top quality defenders, each of who brings a lot to the squad and the system.

Speaking of midfielders, there’s the Gerrard/Lucas complex. Are they doing a good enough job? Why aren’t we keeping the ball well enough in the middle and why do we look lacklustre pressing in that double pivot? Are they sitting too deep? Mobile enough?

I think people have been looking in the wrong places. Looking at the shape of the central chamber it is reliant on being supported both by the #10 and the central defender. These are the areas where we have failed. It maybe ring true that we could do with more mobility in there to help us with the swarm press but if in my view the team aren’t helping us enough in there, and the parts haven’t quite fit together. Skrtel sitting too deep takes away their supporting act in behind them and the threat of leaving too much space between themselves and our defenders has caused them to sit deeper, whilst the attacking intent for Moses to try and run in behind has left space in front of them. The idea with the formation is that space should be at a premium for the opposition because of the small nature of the inner shape and that should make the ground coverable for our midfielders. The space has been too big not because Gerrard and Lucas can’t cover it (I’m sure they cover decent miles per game even if they aren’t the quickest) but because Skrtel is too deep and Moses too high which means the central chamber is far to expansive both in attack and defence meaning the ball moves quickly through it and this leaves Gerrard and Lucas in no man’s land on far to regular a basis. Even with the endless energy of Henderson, there was still too much space. Gerrard could be the catalyst, but the system isn’t functioning in other areas of the chamber and that has caused Gerrard and whoever partners him to look exposed more so than any sort of immobility or fitness issues. The inclusion of Agger and Coutinho will doubtlessly shrink the size of that chamber and make life much easier for those two in the middle of the four.

Glen Johnson will revel in this and I don’t think it takes to much explanation as to why. Coutinho too will experience the freedom and possibilities of having two runners ahead of him in the forwards and each side via the wingers. This opens up a massive passing scope for the little Brazilian and having both central defenders tied up with Sturridge and Luis will allow him much more TAS in which to weave his magic. He will love this extra space to work in and the movement ahead of him will open up a world of opportunities for clever passes. More than anything, he will help Gerrard and Lucas because of the way he can drop into the space and provide a supporting act on the ball as well as a decent shield without it. Moses is a good player and in a counter attacking side where the ball moves quickly through the midfield he is well suited, but having Coutinho come back will bring back and element of control through the middle that we have lacked thus far in our 3-4-1-2 experiment.

The nub though, is the SAS. Together these two guys work remarkably well off each other with lateral movement and a natural instinct to pre-empt what the other will do. Most importantly, it keeps our two best goal scorers playing between the widths of the posts and allows them to go 1v1 against their centre halves which suits both of them as dribblers. It is of little surprise that the change in formation came when Suarez returned. That for me along with the depth of quality at centre half is the reason why we have seen the switch; getting these two central and scoring goals. Once Coutinho is back to feed them, then you can see them both getting an awful lot.

I think this highlights the reason we have switched formations. It will allow us control of the key zones of the pitch once we have some important players back and it allows our most potent attacking threats to be in positions to do damage time and time again. It is no narrower than any other formation, no more attacking/defensive or particularly suited to a possession/counter based game. What it is however, is effective against teams that play a back four because of the overload in the attack and in the middle of midfield. We have effectively given up a wide player on each side and utilized them in more dangerous positions centrally without losing width and adding depth. It gets the best out of our defenders and strikers, and in time once we get a few things sussed out and a couple of players back it will suit our central midfielders too.

I may be biased, but I hope it stays.

[CHOPPER]

Struck a chord with me this. Its not all about formation and tactical theories. Sometimes, its just about the heart and the memories when being a fan....

'Scousers,Scousers! where's your scarf's!?'
                                                    - Paddock Mancs to Liverpool fans in the  Score board end,Old Trafford circa 1980

Oh! how we laughed at those scarf bedecked, donkey jacket wearing, Air Weir booted fools, the following year , they too had shed their scarfs...a trend, nay! a culture, led by our very own had separated the knowing smarter fan from the scarf wearing horde...but that was then and this is now.

I don't know when I started wearing a scarf , but I certainly stopped in the late Seventies...however, I left behind fond memories .... my Kevin Keegan Silky...once tied around the wrist it ended up a Gordian Knot....my mam in her wisdom once washed it...the streak on Kevins faced made him look like a Bizzaro world Keegan....my main scarf in the mid to late seventies, like Kavah was the pinstriped fans around the world flags ..worn, naturally hanging down the side of your Birmo's!.. a gem..I loved that scarf, it enjoyed cup finals, league wins etc ...until some twat stole it on the way to a Liverpool away European game....stole it off the fucking coach whilst still in Liverpool!!

But there can only be one, my pride and joy, if ever , god forbid my house is on fire I will get my family out first and will ensure only one item comes with us...My  St.Etienne Scarf...the ziz-zag Allez Les Verts one ( gentlemen of a certain vintage will know what I mean) ..swapped it before that game ...a bloke offered me £20 for it afterwards...£20 in 1977!!....no way! ...that scarf embodies everything I cherish about that period.... defines that moment when we became the Bastion of Invincibility...Ive only worn it once in the intervening 36 years...the Kops last stand....promised meself I would wear it at the last game if we left Anfield...maybe, maybe I will get to wear it to see us lift the League again at Anfield...if not... I will wear it , finally , one more time.....it goes with me.

Since then only one momentus moment caused me to don a scarf...I couldn't help meself ...and Im bloody glad I did as I held it aloft during YNWA in Istanbul.

Scarfs will always equal Wool to me....so its not something for me , nor I suggest a certain generation of Scousers..but feel free to go with it...cos you may find  that if that  magic moment finally arrives  and we win the league and the Kop breaks into YNWA a load of fifty-something non scarf wearing Scousers will be asking to hold one end of your scarf!

Cheers for that, fatty.

[Yorkykopite]

All that to say he prefers scarves made of wool. Bit weird.

[Big Dirk]

Where can I find the post about John terry and Wayne bridge in the bar?

[Danyaals Kop]

Where can I find the post about John terry and Wayne bridge in the bar?

John Terry and Wayne Bridge walk into a pub. The bartender says 'Wow! John Terry and Wayne Bridge'.
'That's right' said Terry 'pleased to meet your acquaintance'
'Can I get you lads something to drink?' asked the landlord
'I'll have a pint of cider please' requested Bridge politely
'Just an orange juice for me please' said Terry 'I've got a game against Hull at 8 o'clock tonight'
'I know' said the bartender 'In fact this we like to show the games on TV'
'Too bad it's not on Sky' lamented the Man City full-back
'But Crystal Palace v Wolves is on ITV4' remembered Terry
'Not in this pub' added the bartender abruptly
'Why not?' asked Bridge incredulously 'Are you a Millwall fan?'
'No it's because you're not in England now. This is Hong Kong!'
'Oh crumbs!' exclaimed Terry. 'I've inexplicably travelled to Asia with former teammate and friend Wayne Bridge - the very person with whom I'm currently embroiled in a tabloid scandal. Now how on earth am I going to get to the KC stadium by eight to help the lads in our title quest?'
'I don't know' said the bartender 'in fact I don't really speak English 你識唔識講廣東話?'
'Quick Wayne' thought Terry 'let's make a dash to the nearest taxi stand'
'Hold on John' said Bridge 'I'm still injured remember. It's not like you to be inconsiderate'
'I'm sorry Wayne. Please finish your cider.'

[Big Dirk]

Cheers mate

[No666]

This is a truly important post by Prof Scraton. Can't get my head around all of this, even now - it's mind-boggling:

The statements seen by the Panel were consistent with the statements I first accessed in 1996. They were in three versions ... handwritten, typed but with deletions and additions, a final version bearing the signature of the officer at the foot of each page. As Hillsborough The Truth - first published in 1999 - notes (Chapter 10, 'Sanitising Hillsborough') the review and alteration process was orchestrated by the South Yorkshire Police solicitors together with the South Yorkshire Police Head of Management Services (David Denton). A team of SYP officers visited individual officers and pressured them to change their statements. A few refused.  I accessed all the statements at the House of Lords Reading Room, analysed them and published the findings. The revelations weren't buried but were headlined in the Sunday Mirror's serialisation of the book in 1999 by which time I had already laid them before the Stuart-Smith Scrutiny. I was able to demonstrate that those involved at all levels of investigation (West Midlands Police; LJ Taylor; Treasury Solicitor; Home Office; Coroner) were fully aware of the process and approved it.

Despite my revelations and my submissions to the Stuart-Smith Scrutiny on this issue Jack Straw claimed to the House of Commons on 8th May 1998 that Stuart-Smith, 'unearthed the fact that some of the original statements made by individual police officers had been altered by solicitors acting for the South Yorkshire police'! Of course this was wrong and, in fact, in his report Stuart-Smith rejected my claim - naming me - that the changed statements were of any significance.

In researching and writing the Report we went back to all the statements and, as can be seen from the Report, we categorised each individual statement according to the alterations made - methodically examining the statements in all their forms (handwritten, typed and changed, final version). We also, for the first time, revealed that the Ambulance Service statements had been put through a similar process.

Obviously, we were not able to verify the signatures at the foot of each page of each final statement. However, as I indicated in The Truth fourteen years ago, there was some evidence that signatures might have been super-imposed. Additionally, there has always been concern raised by survivors that they felt their statements were not accurate and taken in the aftermath of harrowing survival.

Given that the detail of the revelations of review and alteration made in 1999, along with so much else including my conclusion that a number of those who died could have been saved, it is at best regrettable that it took another thirteen years of suffering and further bereavement, as people died prematurely as a consequence of that suffering, to achieve formal recognition of issues already known.

What the Panel achieved was a systematic, rigorous and independent analysis of the documents but its work could have been progressed a decade earlier had the Government listened to the families and survivors and read the research already published. The documents were there, as was the analysis, but the political will wasn't. Instead of an Independent Panel, Jack Straw chose a judicial scrutiny of evidence supported by the policing division at the Home Office. Its unprecedented process was as flawed methodologically as it was limited in scope. Yet, effectively, it closed the case at an official level for nearly 15 years.

[SMacDougall]

I’ve grown up idolising a man. I was only 8 or 9 when he made his debut against Blackburn and all through my life I’ve loved the explosive dynamo that is Steven Gerrard. He’s been such an exciting player to witness with a swashbuckling swagger and verve to his game where he literally looks like the biggest man in the stadium let alone on the pitch. In his prime he was absolutely one of the very best in the world wherever he played. There was nothing in his game where he couldn’t look at another top player and say ‘I’m better at that than you’. Tackling, passing, shooting, acceleration, pace, control, heading, blocking, finishing, strength, stamina; you pluck almost any player in football who specialised in two of them qualities and Gerrard was better at it than them as well as the rest. A kid, a talent, a boss, a phenomenon, a king, a god; there’s not a stage Gerrard didn’t take to, prove his metal, his worth, his body, heart and soul and verify himself superior to almost anything you could put in front of him. If you could compare him to a movie star, you just wouldn’t because none of them are Steven Gerrard.

A captain at 23 and the key player in our side for over ten years and counting, this sentence alone could summarise Steven Gerrard for what he would become capable of, but it’s so unfair to try and encapsulate him. You could point to Istanbul, Olympiakos, West Ham at Wembley or frankly any multitude of games well into the hundreds and still it wouldn’t seem to justify what Steven Gerrard is all about. Just how talented, athletic and passionate he was and is couldn’t be comprehended without seeing it all, being there even if only in heart and not body for the 646 games he has done more than just play for this club but at times carry on his shoulders amidst the entity of greatness and expectation that surrounds it, embracing this wonderful football club and city; it’s an honour.

It was his drive that really captured the imagination. Gerrard could appear from nowhere galloping like a racehorse towards the opposition penalty area, his eyes narrowed, his glare firm, and his strike sweet as he made it habitual to arrive from deep just at the right time to rifle the ball into the corner of the goal time and time again. But he could do so much more, as he chased and harried in midfield and lunged out with a telescopic leg take make a tackle that looked quite frankly impossible, hooking the ball away from his opponent before quickly getting back to his feet to go and support for the ball. Once he got it he could spray passes wherever he chose with pinpoint precision as he stretched games length and widthways at a canter before slotting a perfect through ball for any half decent run in behind. He’d play right back in European cup finals, throw himself in front of goal, charge players off the ball and surge towards the opponents half. Winning headers, making tackles, scoring goals and assists, there was little this man couldn’t do on a football park.

We’ve been blessed, because we can compare Steven Gerrard to the likes of Kenny Dalglish, Emlyn Hughes, John Barnes, Ian Rush, St John and many more. Most clubs, 99% of clubs, don’t even see a player with half of Stevie’s ability in its history. Anybody that underplays this man and what he has done over his tenure is not one of us. Alex Ferguson for example – born out of so much bitterness he cannot even applaud possibly the greatest talent of a generation because he wasn’t his. The fact that a man that despises this club so much doesn’t have a particularly good word to voice of our captains abilities speaks volumes of its own. He hates the fact that Steven is a born scouser that plays with the passion and bluster for Liverpool. It tears him up that we produced something and someone better than he ever could even with all the coaches, scouts and Premier League medals in the world.

I can be somewhat of a romanticist at times when it comes to the club I love and the players who I crave to make it successful, but my football brain keeps ticking over between my ears and my heart sinks when I see somebody get the better of Gerrard. I am not in the habit of criticising players, knee-jerking or ‘fanboying’. There are things that are becoming apparent and have been doing over the last year or so in regards to doubting whether Gerrard brings more to the side than he does take away from it. He’s always been athletic and reactive; his game is of course built on the foundations of talent but the explosive pace, strength and stamina that accompanied his technical qualities are really what have made him an extraordinary player rather than just a very good one. It’s the blend of mentality, athleticism and technical skills that have allowed Gerrard to become the iconic figure of Liverpool’s recent history; jack of all trades, master of most. The problem is, nature dictates that while his talent and will to win will never waver, his body will, and that’s the cause we’ve had for concern this last 18 months or so has been. He has lost explosiveness, he has lost the ability to lunge time and time again and travel the length of the pitch for fun. There’s nobody that can do a thing about it, time waits for no mortal nor god alike.

Take away the romanticism; screw your football head on and listen to what we’ve heard our incredibly bright manager say. When Brendan Rodgers speaks about midfield he talks about energy, pressing, functionality pressure, and ‘earning the right to play’. Henderson, Allen and Lucas almost sum up that in their game, the aforementioned duo particularly. The idea is to challenge the player with the ball as early as possible, and with persistence and tenacity all across the midfield with players acting in a pack affect. One player goes and directly challenges the opponent (this will customarily be the nearest player to the ball) whilst another goes and cuts off a passing angle, and a third picking up a position where the ball is likely to drop duo to two angles being cut off – pick up somewhere in between the two remaining angles (Alonso was superb at this) and the ball may well find its way within a few yards of you if it isn’t already with your team mates. The art of anticipation in midfield. The roles will of course change dependant on where the ball is, so all of them must have an idea of how to do this and must be able to press in the system we play. It doesn’t apply to every game though, let me make that clear – I still think there are easily 25 games across a season schedule where one of the pressers can be dropped for more finesse.

I’ve been politely saying that Stevie is a luxury player for some time now, and he is an excellent one lest we forget. In games at Anfield where we are going to be allowed to play on the front foot and Gerrard is allowed time and space then he is a player we can afford to have on the park for his pure ability at the expense of balance/energy/mobility because we are not going to be pressed as tenaciously in midfield as we do away from home. Part of the reason for our good form against the fodder at Anfield is because of Stevie’s technical brilliance to pick a range of passes with the time and space to find and execute them, as well as giving us a noteworthy edge at set-pieces recently. He does this very well, and even back in his prime despite his ill-discipline positionally (one of the only flaws in Gerrard’s game) I urged Rafa to start Gerrard deeper in games where we were struggling to score against deep, organised backlines even though I never rated him as highly as a cm as I did out wide or higher up the pitch – I suppose the problem was we didn’t have anybody further up the pitch to replace his significant goal threat from there – I never did like him playing with his back to goal though, so I guess there’s arguments on both sides of the coin, but Rafa is a cannier man than I.

The problem is when we play teams that will pressure the space in midfield by squeezing the backline up and sanctioning their midfielders to press ferociously rather than contain and hold positionally. Gerrard has lost that explosiveness a reactive player needs to be competitive in the hustle and his lack of ability to press and track runners effectively has cost us and made the midfield look weaker than the sum of its parts. People are quick to point to key pass and possession stats and a lack of creativity without Gerrard in the side. Whilst I can understand their concerns particularly at home against stubborn teams, I think they are failing to realise what it is we actually want primarily in midfield, functionality.

Functionality means providing a solid basis where you can expect certain things at certain times. Our midfield against Spurs produced what was expected by winning the ball back quickly, keeping possession well when required, as well as showing the ability to play key passes and play on the break with Henderson giving us a short glimpse of what we used to once regularly see from Stevie by striding through the midfield on the break at pace and playing clever balls in and around full backs to open sides up. Allen of course keeps the ball very well and has shown he can be creative albeit in a different manner. I’ve used this expression for years, but if a midfielder were trying to get into a house, Steven Gerrard would bash the door down, Xavi would pick the lock, and Alonso would go round to the side door. Gerrard is doing more of the latter than his old style, but there are three key ways to get through a midfield to create chances and Henderson and Allen between them fall into two whilst Stevie offers a bit of each but without the functionality behind it.

We don’t want to admit it, or can’t, and others have been peddling shite about Gerrard for years regardless of how he’s done because there is an albeit small anti-Gerrard brigade. Criticising or questioning his role in the first team is sometimes treated as blasphemous, so you’re associated with these types who for some reason do hold an agenda against our skipper (Andy@ would love this thread title were he still among us) but we are not questioning the legend himself or his talent, we are questioning how much his body and lack of athleticism is affecting the team as a whole. For these reasons, some of us have veiled at thoughts and solutions rather than regurgitate the points; I know I’ve held back a fair bit from voicing my concerns, and I don’t doubt you’ve done so yourself, despite your honesty, because of the reaction you’ll inevitably get.  I’m not sure what takes more balls, dropping Steven Gerrard or suggesting it on RAWK. It’s perfectly comprehensible and I empathise wholeheartedly as I witness my childhood hero gradually fall from grace; my brain itches at these thoughts because Stevie is one of us, and we defend our own – it’s part of the Liverpool Way.

Nature however, is even bigger than the club, and by proxy, bigger than the man I have idolised for so long.

 

[Yorkykopite]

What a fantastic post.

[Robinred]

I think this from Juan Loco, in the Arsenal Round Table thread, deserves a wider viewing. Exceptional stuff:

Think it was an intriguing game in some aspects to show the tactical development of not just the team but Rodgers also.


The tactical development within the team

After the Everton game Rodgers was pointing out that he'd been using Henderson to the left of the midfield 3 to offer cover for the left-flank with his energy, and allowing Suarez and Sturridge to rotate with who was nominally positioned on the left of the front 3. I think it's beginning to look increasingly obvious that Rodgers is targeting the weaker fullback in possession from the opposition and placing Suarez/Sturridge on his side of the pitch. Sterling, being the best out of possession of the front 3 (I think he's the best at pressing the ball in our entire team to be honest) is placed on the same flank as the fullback who is strongest in possession to stop him getting forward as easily.

Against Everton it was obvious that the player you were happiest to see with the ball going forward was Stones, so you had Suarez/Sturridge on that side of the pitch as the left-sided player, not always tracking him when he went forward, but knowing that mostly Henderson had the energy to get across and that Stones would be far less dangerous with time and space on the ball than Baines on the opposite flank.

Against Arsenal it was the opposite. You wouldn't want Sagna showing up free in our half of the pitch, so you put Sterling against him. Suarez went over to the right, although there was considerably less altering of position between Suarez and Sturridge than in the previous games (but it did happen a few times earlier on in the match). What happened also though, that shows the versatility in the front 5, is that Henderson also swapped flanks along with the striker, again presumably to cover him and to be there to quickly pressure that flank if Suarez is caught out and they try and find their spare man at the back in space.

Basically over the last 3 games we've seen Suarez and Sturridge play all across the front line, Henderson and Coutinho swap sides to compensate for that, and play either side. The only switch we haven't really seen with that five, which I think may come in time, because Rodgers has used him there once or twice before, is the idea of Sterling playing as the central figure in the front 3 for any amount of time. Maybe we won't see him pop up there for fear of leaving two strikers up against their fullbacks if we lose the ball, or maybe Rodgers doesn't think Sterling wouldn't be of great effect there on his own (yet?). I think it would have been interesting though, had we see Sterling drop off into a central area against West Brom for a brief period, just to pick up the ball in and around Yacob after he was booked. He can get freekicks like no one else in our team (considering Suarez's reputation).

Possibly it's simply an issue of in-game management from the player though. It's a very, very young team. And a pretty impulsive one. For the sake of curiosity I had a look at the differences in our midfield's performance over the last 3 games, partly because the burden (as it often seems to) fell on Gerrard's performance for our lack of cohesiveness against West Brom. What struck me was, in terms of touches of the ball and passes (and pass accuracy), that was Gerrard's best game of the 3 on paper, for the kind of 'controller' people are assuming Brendan Rodgers wants. What was interesting is that in that West Brom game, Henderson's passing accuracy was way down on what it has been in the other two games. It was also the one game where Gerrard made more passes than the other two (14 more!) against Everton Coutinho played by greatest amount of passes. At the weekend they were within 4 passes of one and other (keep in mind who was subbed off in each game). To me what went wrong against West Brom, and it's totally understandable, is that neither Coutinho (at 20) and Henderson (at 23) were able to manage the game and bring themselves in to it. Through various stages where it needed one of them to simply pass the ball accurately and take the sting out of the game, neither was capable. Henderson's radar was off and Coutinho was trying to inject pace into the game.

That for me is the next major evolution in terms of the team going forward. It's scary to think how good a midfielder Coutinho will be when he can do that to a game (I think he looks the mostly likely to dictate a game out of him and Henderson, and that's what his role looks more set up for anyways). He appears to have embraced the transformation into an out and out midfielder. Even against West Brom, when he wasn't particularly good, he was simply trying to do the things he had a few days previous, rather than being desperate to score as he has been all season. In consecutive home games he has taken the two brightest hopes of English football and out performed both quite convincingly. His ability to break open lines in the opposition midfield is incredible. But it's ability to genuinely harm a team when he's done so that's frightening. Dembele can dribble past players from the midfield third. Wilshere can dribble past players from the midfield third (although there's been less evidence of that recently). Few players can hurt you quite so badly as Coutinho when he's done it though. His range of passing is scary. Even when his radar is off, he's still finding more accurate through-balls than pretty much anyone (I think he's top 5 in Europe at the moment statistically). He can absolutely kill teams in transitions. He did it to Everton for Sturridge's first, and again at the weekend (and those are just the ones that ended in goals). I actually think he, perhaps more than any other player, encapsulates the perceived move away from 'death by football' - by which people almost certainly mean 'death by possession' - that seems to be the debate now. What I think will change, and can't wait to see over the next season or two, is what happens when this kid develops that innate understanding about when to look to kill a team and when to keep them at arms length with the ball. I'm pretty sure it's what will happen, and I think it was the big difference between our West Brom performance and the other two games. When it comes then we'll start to see the real end game of what a Rodgers team looks like, I think.

Which brings me on to...

The tactical developments from Brendan Rodgers

Counter-attacking or death by football?

We're getting a lot of talk starting now about how he's deviated from his original philosophy of 'Death by Football' (death by possession) and become a counter-attacking manager. I've got qualms with this, personally.

Firstly, I tend to think if a team is dead in the water by half-time, they're pretty fucking dead. Whether it's through passing them to death, or gorilla-fucking them into a level of masochistic subspace only found in Moyes' house when he decides to open the trophy cabinet. Everton and Arsenal both experienced "death by football", if that's what we're going to call it under this manager, like we would have a 'crushing machine' under Rafa. Don't kid yourselves that either phrase means anything deeper than treating the opposition like a Fritzel daughter. It's flat out obliterating the opposition, and making them wish the game was over, and that's what happened.

I don't think the idea that we're a counter-attacking team is fair though. Looking at possession over the course of a game can lead you to come to that conclusion. But respectfully, if you're 3 or 4-nil up within 35 minutes, the game is won and the best way to preserve energy is to shell up and play conservatively. This isn't particularly new to the last few games either by the way. This happened against Stoke and Villa very early on in the season, and drew criticism in performances like Palace at home where we 'tired after half time'. We are the aggressors until we think the game is won. Counter-attacking implies that you set out with the idea of sucking the opposition on to you. We don't do that. We absolutely fucking cane teams in the first half an hour of games. The weekend is the most obvious example, for sure, but we were the team in the ascendency against Everton, we were the ones controlling the games against Villa and Stoke, We were the ones that had Palace, Sunderland, Cardiff, Norwich and West Brom wrapped up before half time.

Rodgers made note of the half-press against Villa early on in the season, and it's tempting to suggest we go back to it a fair bit when we feel the game is already won. Early on in the game though he says we're looking to three-quarter press, which so we're getting higher turnovers in the dangerous thirds of the pitch (or when the opposition have space behind them).

Again though, I wouldn't necessarily call how we're starting games counter-attacking. I'd say it's more based on transitions after the turnover possession. It's arguably quite Germran. Look at Dortmund. They're not a counter-attacking team, but the last few years they're ones that are most dangerous after the ball has been turned over, because that's when an oppositions shape is in chaos and they're eat their most vulnerable. Bayern obviously did it to Barcelona (but also away in Turin IIRC).

The way I'd describe it, whether accurate or not, is that counter-attacking implies a reactive brand of football. We've been anything but reactive these past home games. In fact, the vast majority of both games have been played out in reaction to what we've done to the opposition within the first third of the match.

The defence

This a really interesting one for me, because I'm super-guilty of it myself, especially last summer. I think we've all jumped to conclusions a little early on what we think a Rodgers defence ideally looks like and have ignored that firstly, he's probably still tweaking with that idea of perfection himself, but also, his experiences elsewhere don't tally with it.

I'd completely written off Skrtel. I think there was about a 50/50% split on that if we're being kind. I think everyone had written off Flanagan. I don't mean as a player in general, but as a Rodgers player. I think it was pretty easy too as well. Rodgers early doors spoke of Flanagan's role as not an attacking fullback, which we all assumed he wanted because, eh, Barcelona right? *nudge nudge*. Skrtel struggled terribly first half of the season last year being asked to split wide and do a lot more 1-vs-1 defending. He was out of the team 2nd half of the season, Flanagan I don't think got on the pitch at all last year (the nadir possibly being Swansea in the cup which I think was Henderson and Downing at fullback). Then we looked at the type of players being targeted in defence and the implication seemed to be that after Carragher had comeback in and been a solid stop-gap, we'd be going back to what we assumed was the original plan of basically having incredibly strong 1-vs-1 defenders who were brilliant on the turn. Well we haven't.

A couple of things to say on this really. Firstly it's that one thing that has been reasonably consistent under Rodgers so far is that he only seems to change in answer to a problem. Second half of last season our style of defending wasn't a particular problem compared to the first. The second, more interesting thing, I think, is why did we all assume Rodgers would push such a high defensive line and play 1-vs-1 defending with loads of space in the first place?

Swansea didn't do this. Yes, their centerbacks split and saw a lot of the ball. But Swansea didn't leave a lot of room in behind themselves. They didn't leave Caulker or Williams isolated too often. They also didn't press really high up the pitch, which is something we also haven't done very often under Rodgers (compared to say a Barcelona, Southampton or Villas-Boas team who push the defensive line right up).

I had this conversation with Royhendo a couple of months back, that maybe Rodgers' ideal defence isn't so much like Barcelona than it is a Mourinho team. The summer was spent looking for an increased physicality a the back and looking for 'men' as Rodgers put it. We swapped out a keeper in Reina who was, at his best, very sharp off his line and sweeping up in behind (like Lloris is for Spurs) and replaced him with a brilliant shot-stopper who doesn't come out and look to win the ball very often at all. He's brought Skrtel back into the team because he kicks it and clears it and is a pessimistic defender. He's gone from not rating Flanagan at all to him probably being a starter even when everyone's fit, it's just a question of on which flank. A question to ask would be whether this is Rodgers adapting to the players at hand or what he genuinely prefers from his defenders. I think it's perhaps too early into his career to tell given he hasn't stayed more than two seasons at a single club. Certainly the idea of defending deeper, with more traditional fullbacks has benefited Flanagan massively, and Cissokho, whose defensively solidity is apparent during this run of games when it wasn't when he was asked to play at wingback. Skrtel, who I'm not a huge an of, is also playing brilliantly at the moment in a settled defence. The fun narrative is the idea that he's been better since he got stapled up, but I thought he had a good 2nd half against Villa too. The longer-term question is - if we are going to sit in as a defence - whether anything has changed with his ability to deal with the more physically imposing strikers. You'd think if we're going to have sit-in and have a goalkeeper that doesn't come for crosses, that the two centerbacks would have to be solid as rocks when it comes to dealing with aerial bombardments and balls up to the big man.

The idea of sitting in as a defence certainly seems to suit the team in general though, and it's very Mourinho. If you look at his first spell at Chelsea, when Rodgers was there, both fullbacks were fairly orthodox. Ferrera especially and he'd probably have said Gallas was his best left back in the two title winning seasons. I think the thing they had in that defence that was exceptional, that I think we look to have replicated in a slightly different way with Steven Gerrard (and hopefully Sakho when he comes back in) was Carvalho. Carvalho could've played centerback anywhere in the world. He could've gone to Barcelona and defended on the half way line with the greatest of ease. But at Chelsea when he could beat an attacker to the ball he would set them off on their counter-attacks in the same way that Gerrard's passes are doing now when the ball is turned over deep. It was a key feature against Everton that we would take the risk to play out through their first phase of pressure in the turnover and then look to move the ball quickly and punish them. It was apparent again on Saturday, especially in the key period in the game between 1-0 and 3-0, where Gerrard just physically locked down that area in front of our defence, got in far sharper than any Arsenal player and then looked to start the counter-attack. I think Sakho definitely has that ability to his game playing at centerback (and there were supposedly doubts about his ability on the turn anyway?) and even Skrtel has shown it occasionally, especially in the build up to penalty against Everton. Flanagan is also really good at this. That idea of being a rash on a player and pressuring them off the ball before they can get turned, then playing the smart pass to a player facing forward in space straight afterwards.


Again, like Coutinho's development in terms of 'managing' the game on the pitch over the next season or two, this I think will be really interesting to watch over the next season or so. Is Rodgers using the players at his disposal in the best possible way (not just the defenders, because he wouldn't defend this way if he didn't think it suited the way Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge all want to play) or is the long-game still the idea of fullbacks who are basically wingers, centerbacks playing as wide as fullbacks, and a 'controller' in the Leon Britton mode who touches and passes the ball more than anyone else (rather than Gerrard who in the better performances sees less of the ball than the two ahead of him, arguably like Barca )

Either way, after the weekend, and the Everton game, and plenty of others this season, it no longer feels like the Rodgers end game is years down the line. The picture of what we're going to look like is starting to look clearer, although not crystal yet. But at least we'll probably see it coming, which is more than teams coming to Anfield get at the moment.

[royhendo]

Just added the quotes in Robin mate - came on to post the exact same thing - he's not lauded enough for his contribution.

[conman]

Here's another belter, this time from Xabier Alonso Olano (who sounds like a footballing god in his own right!)

Impossible to not be impressed with the Rodgers since he has come in a couple of seasons ago. A lot has been written on here and by journos about all of the excellent work that he has done, and will continue to do undoubtedly for as long as he is in charge of us. How many years will that be? Such an interesting question that because its hard to see where this road ends. Of course nobody knows what will happen tomorrow (except for me.... Same shit different day) but the relentlessly positive atmosphere that surrounds LFC at the moment; From the owners, manager, 1st team squad, the academy and the fans, the old saying of everyone pulling together trying to accomplish one aim has never felt more appropriate.

The most pleasing aspect of our current set up for me is the fact that the whole club still feels in its infancy of its growth, and the potential of the club, team and academy is massive. I mean, the owners are new to 'soccer', and although there has been hiccups along the way (Comolli), they have shown that they want to run the club the 'right' way- within our means, have made positive noises around the stadium and have backed the manager in player recruitment in a prudent way.

Player recruitment is just one of the many things that people have spoken extensively about recently but for me it is the most pleasing and important aspect of what Rodgers has brought to the club. At the end of the day, a team is still a collective of individuals and having a 'committee' and a manager that can identify the quality of player, with the correct temperament at the right age and right price is key to the future success of the club. The summer window was when it honed on me just how astute Brendan can be. The signing of Sakho and the young boy Ilori for decent money combined when other areas of the squad might have been seen 'more' in need of extra competition, only stands to show how Rodgers will sign a player for any position if the right quality of player is available. At the time of the signings he spoke about how signing these two players was about safeguarding the future, Rafa spoke similarly when signing Suso and Sterling and revamping youth recruitment, Rafa's future is Rodgers present in that respect. The signings of Sturridge and Coutinho speak for themselves, but even the lads that havent quite hit the heights for us yet that Rodgers has signed, mainly Joe Allen (who I rate highly and cannot wait to see his peak), Alberto, Aspas, Borini, have all shown that they possess the flashes of the quality that is required to hold a place down in our squad. Even signings such as Cissokho, Sahin and Moses, although not successful (on the whole) shows his willingness to give players a chance to play for us who might possibly add something to the squad. If it hasn't worked out, he has shown a ruthlessness to give someone else a chance.



I read an interview on here that someone posted up a few days ago, where Rodgers was speaking about getting the CORE:


“I always say to players and in particular to young players that at Liverpool we work on what we call the ‘core’. We get the ‘commitment’. Once we have do that we will ‘organise’ a plan for them to get into the first team. When that happens it is their ‘responsibility’ and hopefully after that we can deliver ‘excellence’ in their performance level that keeps them there. If they don’t they will fall by the wayside.”

The other most impressive part of his reign for me is this. His ability to seemingly coach/man-manage/literally drag players up to the required standard and their best form is possibly the mans most natural trait as a manager. That coupled with his willingness to try any player who shows they are good enough is a dangerous combination. Is it far-fetched to suggest that even more young players already at the club can now progress to become top class Premiership players? Following this CORE blueprint, any player that shows the aptitude can succeed and follow on from the inroads Sterling, Flanagan, Kelly, Wisdom, Suso, Ibe have already. In many ways, even the academy feels in its formative years, which seems silly to suggest after all the work Borrell and everyone at the academy has done over the years, its almost like the chick we grew has just laid is first eggs, and they are all hatching now. That list of players seems like the first 'batch' to come through, Rodgers forward thinking could allow many more to follow. Disciples of the ressies and u18s will know what I mean, there are many talented players at all levels of the club, with a clear blueprint to follow maybe more will make the transition.

Juan Loco posted a belter in the Arsenal Round the Table thread where he spoke of Rodgers tactical flexibility and his relaxing of some of his footballing philosophies, which was spot on in its analysis. What really amazes me is the fact that Rodgers himself is hardly an old head in the game. Still young for a manager and new to managing a club of our stature, he is showing that he is learning and adapting all the time. He looks like he enjoys his job, looks comfortable within it too, nothing worse than seeing an Villas-Boas-type looking sullen even after a win, almost haunted by their job. That isn't to say that he has got it right every time, or even that he will get it right in the future. As good as this season has been thus far, there are still question marks over how we are set up tactically away from home, 23 conceded on the road is only better than about 4 teams in the league. I am not sure that he has the tactical answers yet against good teams away from home. Not only against the Man City's and Chelsea's of the world, two examples of where I think Rodgers has been slightly naive this season, maybe in seasons to come we will set up differently away from home against the 'top 4'. But also against the likes of West Brom, West Ham, Southampton, Swansea. For me, these teams usually hold the key to the season at the top end, if I was a a manger and had a team good enough to beat those four teams away from home every season, I'd be pretty confident of winning the title. I'm not suggesting that that list of teams is particularly great, but that they are tough fixtures in reality, tough grounds to win at. I saw an interview with Rodgers where he spoke about "the best managers being the best thieves" (nicked from Capello ((who probably nicked it from someone else)) and couldn't help but wish Rodgers would nick a bit that tactical steel, pragmatism, in grinding out results away from home. I was schooled during the Houiller years and the one thing that stands out for me with Gedda was his ability to shut games down and win them, cup competitions and in Europe, on the road we were tight and tough to score against. Rafa was the same (even more so) and the more experienced top class managers all have a coherent tactical setup away from home in the biggest games. I am sure it is something that will come with experience but it is clearly an area that Rodgers and the team need to work on to improve. Especially with Champions League back next season, finding the right balance between defence and attack, when to be compact, when and where to make the final third entries, use of subs, etc in tough away games is for me the final piece in the jigsaw. If Rodgers can add that to his tactics book, the skys the limit. It truly is. There's more signings to come, more options, more talent. A young squad, a young manager, screams out potential from every corner. It been a pleasure watching us this season. Onwards and upwards I reckon.

[No666]

E2K nails Mourinho without calling him the obvious:

Like many others, whenever I think of José Mourinho in years to come (which hopefully won’t be too often), I doubt the European Cups with Porto and Inter, the back-to-back League titles with Chelsea or anything else he may achieve in the game will be at the forefront of my mind.

For starters, as a self-respecting Liverpool supporter, I would imagine that Luis Garcia’s goal against his expensively-assembled team in May 2005 will be one of my first memories, together with this obsession that seems to have gnawed away at him ever since that the ball didn’t cross the line which remains, of course, arguably the greatest example of the hypocrisy and selectiveness which have come to define the man, skilfully sidestepping both the red card for his goalkeeper and penalty for Liverpool which would have otherwise resulted as well as the fact that his League Champions utterly failed to overcome an opponent that included the combined talents of Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan and, in the end, resorted to punting long balls at Robert Huth (the dashing Mick McCarthyesque tracky he wore that night will undoubtedly figure too). There will also be little Luis repeating the feat (and actually hitting the net this time) the following season in the FA Cup semi-final at Old Trafford, which followed hot on the heels of Rafa’s little dig that Roman Abramovich was the most important man at Stamford Bridge (“mind games” anyone? In response, “The Special One” attempted to demonstrate his managerial genius by dropping Cole, Duff and Robben…) And then there will likely be Agger’s goal at the Anfield Road end in 2007 and the knowledge that, for three seasons in a row, Rafa’s Reds overcame his team in a massive cup semi-final.

Aside from the Liverpool angle (not even mentioning the disgraceful tackles by Essien on Hamann and Eto’o on Henderson which he summarily ignored and, in the case of the former, even defended), there will be plenty more to remember beyond mere football played and trophies won. His contention that Anders Frisk and Frank Rikjaard conjured up a red card for Didier Drogba at half-time in the Nou Camp in 2005, a charge which he later retracted but not quickly enough to spare the Swedish official retirement-inducing death threats, a unique flair for the ridiculous and affinity for conspiracy theories which would be seen again in 2011 as he wondered aloud whether Unicef’s partnership with Barcelona was at play in Pepe’s red card and his own expulsion to the stands during Real Madrid’s 0-2 loss to the Catalans in the first leg of a Champions League semi-final. That was around the time that his premeditated absence from a press-conference resulted in over 100 journalists leaving in disgust, I would assume a first for Real Madrid, along with Pep Guardiola’s ultra-calm, ultra-accurate, ultra-fucking-cool “in this room, he is the chief, the fucking man” comments which, coupled with Messi’s tour-de-force the following night and Mourinho’s paranoid ramblings afterwards, were the best example of the instigator of so-called “mind-games” becoming the victim since Alex Ferguson was losing his shit following Liverpool’s 4-1 at Old Trafford in the spring of 2009, having his technical staff totting up transfer spends, ranting about “beyond the pale” and conspiring with his LMA buddies to fabricate dismissive gestures from a rival. His eye-gouge on Tito Villanova a few months later (which needs no comment from me) will also no doubt figure in my mind’s eye.

As for the football, I’ll remember Didier Drogba becoming the biggest cheat in football under his tutelage, not simply going down under contact but rolling back onto the pitch when supposedly injured to get the game stopped and developing such a monstrous sense of entitlement that the 1-1 draw against Barcelona at Stamford Bridge in 2009, the same game which so irked Mourinho that he would still be talking about it two years later, the same game that saw Eric Abidal wrongly sent off and the away side chasing a goal with ten men for most of the second-half, saw him cursing into a camera and his own manager needing to drag him away and down the tunnel. I’ll remember Robben’s dying-swan act when Reina placed a glove on his face, and I’ll remember Porto and the playacting that turned into a virtual art form under Mourinho. After all of these things, and more in the meantime I’m sure, I’ll then remember the trophies won, although that in itself will probably be mitigated somewhat by the money spent to win those trophies, particularly at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid. And none of that is my fault, because nobody held a gun to his head and made him act like that. It was his decision to do that, and if his ultimate legacy is damaged in the minds of many as a result, then that will be the price he pays for making football just that little bit more of a hollow, tainted sport than it once was, where values like integrity, dignity and decency have less of a place than they used to. Maybe that will be his ultimate legacy?

[Corkboy]

That's quality, alright.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Brought a tear on my eyes when I read it. Absolute quality.

Sorry to pick on your post Shaun, but I have to unleash.

Football is about dreaming, and sometimes about falling short, but you can only ever fall short of something you believe can happen in the first place. At 3 nil down in the Ataturk, while I cried into my Liverpool T Shirt and scarf, at 17 with my family back home, I felt it was over, just expecting the next 24 hours to pass until I was confronted and laughed at by my friends at school. Just standing there, gutted, completely gutted at what I was watching in front of me. It wasn't supposed to happen this way, I was supposed to watch a competitive win. We had no chance now, we should settle for making it respectable. That's what we should do, just get one goal back, and make it respectable.

That was of course, until You'll Never Walk Alone wafted over the stands that very cold Turkish evening, and I knew then, that whatever happened, 75% of the stadium were standing with me, 17 year old me at 3-0 down, were standing there, supporting the same team, and make no doubt about it, we let the Liverpool team of the time know, that whatever happened, even at 3 nil down, they would never walk alone, we would still love them, even if they got thrashed. We all know what happened next.

Like we should finish fourth, fall short and make it RESPECTABLE. Falling short? This may still happen to the Liverpool that we love and drink copious beers over right now. But ultimately, Man City and Arsenal, at least one of them could drop points after spending 40 minutes each with ten men trying to beat their European teams. They might be at home this weekend, but the potential for dropped points is there regardless.

All we can do is win our game against Swansea. Win our game. Hope for dropped points. Win our game. Hope for dropped points. Win our game. Hope for dropped points. Infact in some ways it's hope for dropped points, win our game.

Why not dream? We all would be happy with fourth, I can't see anyone being angry with that position, I certainly wouldn't be. But for now, for the moment, for the period in time that this season exists in, this very day, this very moment, with all the results we've seen this season, why not dream of the title? Give me a valid reason why we shouldn't think that if some results go our way that we couldn't do so?

No-one is saying we are going to walk it. Haha, as quotes go, "no-one ever said it would be easy". But as supporting a team goes, surely any team that hasn't spent plus ONE BILLION QUID on a team would love to be 4 points off with 12 games to go. 4 points off with 12 games to go is an FFP dream. Think about it if we were challenging for any other position. 4 points off.... 12 games to go.

Liverpool, with a chance, an outside chance, a Luis Garcia chance, a Gerrard penalty chance, a Benayoun last minute chance, a fucking spin of the roulette wheel if need be, chance, of glory, of winning, of going all the way, of breaking the duck, of winning the league?

Isn't it more than you dreamed for at the start of the season? Top four place hopefully.... What is wrong with top 1 hopefully? What is wrong with hoping that when the final whistle goes on the last day that we are the top team in the league? Only Man City so far have managed to out score us. I'm not sure of the maths, but it's pretty much in our own hands.

We can win it. I certainly won't be berating the team if they fail to do so, but there is nothing wrong with hoping they can, it's what football is all about. I know behind closed doors they believe they can, so why, for a fleeting moment, can't we? It's fucking on. It's fucking on. It's surely an amazing expectation to ask for with such a depleted squad at this stage. But despite all that, there is a chance. It's on. 4 points. 12 games. For it to be on, for us to have the opportunity should our results go right and theirs left is monumental on its own.

I'll be honest. I've never seen us win it. Never seen us win the Champions League or UEFA Cup either until they HAPPENED. I've been dreaming of us winning the league since I was watching Souness, Roy Evans and seeing Man United drop goals past us on their way every season at my old mans favourite pub, as the Mancs tried to convince me to switch allegiance. Giving my first few £2 coins that I had in pocket money to Mancs as bets we would beat them

I haven't hoped for ages and most of my life, that we could be at this stage to settle for fourth, I want fourth, I want building, but at the same time, I want third, I want second, I want first. I want to walk one day back into that pub as an older man, and drop a 2 pound coin on the table and ask for a pint, with a knowing smile on my face.

IT'S ON...

IT'S FUCKING ON...

LOOK AT STEVEN GERRARDS CELEBRATIONS AND TELL ME IT ISN'T

TELL ME IT ISN'T.

WE ARE LIVERPOOL...

Watch this round up of our season and from the bottom of your heart, tell me, it isn't on whatsoever.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkJAXzqaGuE&list=LLgo0aCFZI3UGIlxjLsEtejw&feature=mh_lolz

[E2K]

The thing is, it's not just about winning.

It's how we're winning.

I'm 33. I've been supporting Liverpool since I was 5. I fell for the Reds properly when Barnes was signed. The first team I truly saw was Kenny's 87-91 vintage.

So basically, you can say I got my footballing education from that side. The triangles, the short passing, Beardsley dropping off the striker, Barnes' magnificent wing play, the late runs into the box from midfield by Mcmahon and Houghton, the comeback wins, the never say die attitude.

That was the Liverpool I fell in love with. The style of play that got me hooked. Since then, every Liverpool side I've watched has always been compared to that team for me. Look at my first few posts on this forum 9 years ago or so and you'll see me moaning (as ever) of our transfer market failings. You'll see me begging for a Pablo Aimar (i.e. a Beardsley type). For flair. For more creativity.

For close to 15 years (since 97 basically. Just after my desire for a defensive midfielder was sated by Paul Ince...), I've been begging Liverpool bosses to buy that sort of player. The type that can unlock tight defenses. That can thread a through ball through an eye of a needle. That can terrify defenders with pace and guile, creativity and flair. And year after year, I had to see the likes of Overmars,  Pires, Ronaldo and Modric being snapped up by other teams while we signed the likes of  Leonhardsen, Barmby, Kuyt and Jovanovic: hard workers, first and foremost. Flair and trickery sacrificed for keeping the shape and defensive solidity.

Why? Because since Evans decided he needed more workers in the side after the debacle of Spring 1997, every manager we've had has valued workers over flair players.

Houllier brought success but he also brought some of the most mind numbingly boring football I've ever seen. He had the closest thing to Peter Beardsley in modern football (Number 37) and used him like he was John Fashanu.

Rafa brought success, amazing nights and for a few months some wonderful attacking play, but he also brought a sometimes spirit crushing refusal to take risks, to go for broke, to sacrifice the system for more creativity. He spent fortunes on every position except attacking midfield. He was all about compactness, the shape, control.

Hodgson was Hodgson and Kenny was hamstrung from the very start with a 35m pounds absolute fuck up of a signing who was so limited he required us to go spend more fortunes on limited players to bring the best out of his limited skill set. We all, for a couple of lovely months in Spring 2011 saw a version of a modern Liverpool which mirrored the 87-91 vintage. But then, it was gone with the need to limit our attacking play with our limited record signing.

In Brendan Rodgers, we have a man who puts flair before anything else. We have a man who's first thought is attack. Whose every thought is about scoring goals. It's about winning football matches. Who will not hesitate to go for broke if we're drawing, who wants us to play exactly like the 87-91 vintage did. And, Jesus Christ, he's very close to making it happen.

Philippe Coutinho is exactly the type of player that I've been begging us to sign since Mcmanaman left in 1999. He's the Peter Beardsley we've been crying out for years. He's a player who is full of flair, creativity, vision and skill. And Rodgers adores him, absolutely swears by him. Raheem Sterling is the closest thing (but still miles away) from a John Barnes for 2 decades. Full of flair, pace, trickery and fight. And he's 19. Rodgers adores, has played him since he was 17, has never wavered in his support for him.

We have the best player I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt in my life in Luis Suarez. A man for which the word flair is not enough. And we have Daniel Sturridge, a man who is scoring goals faster than ANY Liverpool striker in modern Liverpool history.

This isn't about Rodgers getting lucky. This isn't about Lambert being better. This shit did not just happen. It was Rodgers who had the balls to play Sterling (even at 17 years of age). It was Rodgers who went out and bought Coutinho when most of our previous managers would have had not touched him with a barge pole. It is Rodgers who is getting Sturridge to look like the English Thierry Henry. And it is Rodgers that is getting Luis Suarez to break goalscoring record after goal scoring record.

For those who know me, you'll know how adamant I was from the start that the Carroll - Suarez partnership was doomed to fail. I was going nuts at how we were wasting Suarez's talent, using him like Jermaine Defoe, when he was so much better than that.  I argued endlessly on here that we needed to surround him with movement, with pace and with intelligent footballers. Well Rodgers came in, sent Carroll packing , backed himself, backed Luis and now look. We have 2 strikers that have more than 1 goals a start this season in the league. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. BY ANYONE.

It's because of all of this that I look at Rodgers and give him my full support. People can't just brush off what's been happening this season (and indeed since last Jan) as luck or anything else. It's genius. We've beaten teams by 4 goals or more 5 times this season. Do you know how many times Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and United have done that combined? ZERO. Not once. Everton? 1 time. City? 4 times- and they have had 5 years or so to Billion pounds up their squad.

You know what…  Fuck our rivals. Compare us to our previous manager. We’ve beaten teams by 4 goals or more in the league 10 times in Rodgers' 64 league games: the same number of times as in Houllier's 6 seasons, 2 less than in Evans' 5 seasons, and 5 less than in Rafa's 6 seasons. This guy has barely managed us for a season and a half!

I've never seen (not even the 87-91 team) Liverpool absolutely destroy the teams around us. We went from breaking records in a bad way to breaking records in a good way, almost in the blink of an eye. The likes of Wolves, Fulham, Spurs, West Brom etc etc... all came to Anfield from 2010 to 2012 and won for the first time in decades. Now? We've gotten our biggest Derby win since 1982. We've had our biggest win at Spurs in our history. We matched our record for goals scored against Arsenal in our history.

This kind of shit you don't just brush off. We're DESTROYING these teams. 5-0. 4-0. 5-1. And we're missing penalties, hitting posts, missing chances while we're doing it.  Who from our rivals are doing this? Which Liverpool teams from the last 20 odd years have done this?
You don't just call this shit luck, or talk about Paul Lambert. You fucking respect it.

I could go on for ages about what Rodgers' has done right: playing the kids (name me one manager we've had in recent history who would have put Suso on at half time for his league debut vs United? Or sent in Texeira for his debut with 8 minutes to go in a game we desperately needed to win?),  attacking substitutions ( putting on a second striker vs Stoke when 3-2 up- in complete contrast to what most of our recent bosses would have done), playing the media brightly and in a non confrontational manner…

And you know what… It’s maybe the last point that’s the issue for some as well as me. Because, while I absolutely adore Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool and almost everything he’s done so far, I still struggle to warm to Brendan Rodgers the man. I still call him Rodgers for example, like I called Gerard- Houllier- after a certain time. Why? Maybe it’s because it’s his love in with the media. Maybe it’s because of little things like calling Howard Webb “Howard” after THAT shambles on Sunday. Maybe it’s because I’m still not certain this bloke is one of us, like Kenny was, like Rafa was. Maybe it’s because, as Tony  Evans rightly says, we haven’t actually achieved anything yet.

But Brendan Rodgers the manager? Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool? They make me look at my telly (sorry locals; Out of Towner here) with amazement. They make me see things I haven’t seen for decades, dream things I haven’t dare to dream, feel things I haven’t felt for years.

They make this 33 year old man stay up till 4am in the morning with the adrenaline still racing after watching a master class of an attacking performance; watching replay after replay, full match after full match.

They make me feel like a 7 year old again. And that’s all that counts.

We could go on a bad run sure. But that won’t erase what we’ve done since January 2013. I think people have forgotten how bleak it was before that.  Finishing 7th, 6th and 8th. Losing 3-1 in a fortnight or so to Villa and Stoke. Looking like we had absolutely fuck all to play for. Couldn’t score a penalty, let alone a goal, if our lives depended on it.  Losing game after game against awful sides at Anfield.

From that to 4 points off the top with 12 games to go  and 66 goals scored in 26 games played. In barely 13 months. Rate Lambert all you want but for Christ’s sake, have some respect. Even rival fans (go to Red Café if you don’t believe me) sing Rodgers’ praises.

Leave your bitterness to one side and just enjoy this incredibly exciting team we have which is making us dream like we haven’t dreamed for eons.

[mjgill85]

Juance again:

United and Spurs fans are now doing the sort of thing people on here have been doing the past X years. Looking 5 fixtures down the line and building up these ideas of "well if they only get 2 points from the next 12..." or "if we get 13 from 15...".

Let's get this right kids - statistically we've been closer to the three sides above us than we have the teams 'competing for 4th'. "Oh, but stats don't tell you the whole picture, you can twist them however you want". Well, "the league table doesn't lie" and all that nonsense. We're 6 points ahead of anyone else competing for 4th. That's 6 points with a +32 goal difference on Spurs. That's a three game swing over eleven games. Spurs, the closest challenger for 4th, need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Everton need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Manchester United need us to lose four more games than them. Over the next 11. Not draw. Lose. Do you know how many we've lost this season? 5. Do you know how many league games we've lost since the start of 2013? 8 in 45. I'll go back even further. Since United won at Anfield last season on the 23rd of September 2012, we've lost 10 games. Out of 60 in the league. That's not with Sturridge or Coutinho. That's Rodgers record besides the first 5 games. We aren't an easy team to beat. Haven't been in a long fucking time. More than long enough to say it's part of the Brendan Rodgers Liverpool DNA, not a streak. We've lost one set of back-to-back fixtures under Rodgers, and they were away to City and Chelsea. But hey, we must be fucking due a collapse, because that's what piss-pants logic dictates, right?

There is literally fucking nothing suggesting we're in a race for 4th instead of a title. I'm not even attempting to be an arrogant dickhead about it. It's just the only thing saying that is fucking cowards logic.

Practically every decent statistical model has us nailed on for top four. Our goal difference (usually a decent indicator) is 2nd best in the league. We're the only team to have kept even remotely within touching distance of City's goalscoring. This Liverpool team had scored more goals after 25 games than any of Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams had. More than any of Ferguson's league winning teams had. More than any of Chelsea's teams. More than Keegan's Newcastle, more than fucking London club or Keegan's Newcastle. More than the 87-88 team. We're not lucky to be where we are. We're closer to the top than we are to anyone who thinks they're in a 'race for 4th'. We've been picking up 2 points a game steady enough for long over a year now. With Suarez, without Suarez. With Sturridge, without Sturridge. The only thing that doesn't look 'title contenders' about us is our defensive record. And y'know what? It's roughly in the same ball park as United's and Spurs' ones. Not that it fucking matters, because no team below us in the league has scored more than our front 3, never mind the rest of the team.

I'll just say this to end:

If the league had started January 1st 2014, we'd be top.

On December 25 2013, we were top.

Here's a fucking thought for you - maybe we are in a false position. But maybe it's not because we're 'due' to slip up or United or Spurs are ready to pounce and hanging in there. Maybe it's because we were unlucky having the two toughest fixtures in the calender back-to-back, over 3 days, during the most congested period in the calender? Maybe that's it. Because we were top of the league before those two games to the bankrolled pair. We're top of the form league since those two games. Maybe we are in a false position after all...

Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.

[Yorkykopite]

That is a fantastic post.

[royhendo]

Lets add those Oil Company clubs to the list

[Lofty Ambitions]

From the moment he arrived I supported him. In truth from the moment one of the experts (Callaghan I think) posted a huge set of links about him and his ethos, I wanted him here.

We live in an increasingly cynical world in which we all have opinions and we always think that a gesture has some hidden, underhand meaning.

I remember those first few weeks when Brendan dug out the old 'This Is Anfield' sign that had been thrown into a cupboard to gather dust. He cleaned it and re-hung it. He immersed himself in the history of the club and looked for small things that meant something.

Next were the red nets. Returning them to our goals after 20 years. He spoke in those early days of Liverpool and what this club meant to the fans, and how he wanted to be a part of that. To fight every day for this club and it's fans.

People on here. People who call themselves Liverpool fans mocked him.

"He talks too much"
"Let's see if can walk the walk"
"Too like David fucking Brent"

The nets and the old sign were seen by some as 'empty gestures'. As cynical attempts to get us onside.

There were threads talking of how things would get worse before they got better and that time and patience was needed because Liverpool were in their worst state since the 1950s. Results wise, things did get worse.

But the signs were there. Of attempts to show no fear despite the calibre of opposition.

Within 4 months of league football there was a thread asking if Rodgers had made Liverpool a better team. As if 4 months was an adequate amount of time to judge a manager given the woeful state of affairs the club was in when he arrived.  Again, many of us talked of the signs of moving in the right direction (The 3-2 comeback against West Ham and the 4-0 drubbing of Fulham). Signs that the mental fragility that had plagued our club for years was being taken on.

But we lost to Villa. And then to Stoke. Same old Liverpool.

We put in top 4 form in the second half of that season. More signs that the improvements were there. Off the field the high wage earning bench warmers were being culled. Sturridge arrived and finally we had another option up front.

So the complainers switched to whinging about how we could have had Sturridge the previous summer.

Our highest points tally in 3 years despite our worst start to a league campaign since the 1950s demonstrated we were on the rise.

"He needs a good transfer window to prove that Coutinho and Sturridge weren't just a fluke"
"How can he treat Reina like that?"

Match 1 of the season and new signing Mignolet saves a penalty that would have surely cost us 2 points. In match 2 he pulls off world class saves from Benteke as we hang on for another 1-0.

"But his distribution is awful and he doesn't come for crosses"

We're sitting 2nd behind Arsenal and still the knives come out.

"Tactically out thought by Pochettino again"

We end the first half of the season just about on 2 ppg average, having played almost all of our toughest away matches. We had relegation form for the whole of 2012, top 4 form for the whole of 2013. Yet still there are cynics.

"Just can't warm to him"
"He's getting too close to the media"
"What's with him losing weight and whitening his teeth"

By now, at least the attacks are as far away from being football related they are laughable, but they remain.

Unbeaten in the league in 2014 to date. 26 points from 30. A ppg average that pisses on every one of our rivals.

- We're playing the best football I have ever seen (I'm 36)
- The weak mentality has gone and we are now looking at teams like Chelsea crack under pressure.
- We've beaten Southampton, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Stoke and Man Utd. All big rivals or bogey teams. And we haven't just beaten them. We've inflicted humiliating defeats on them. The likes of which you WILL tell your grandchildren about.
- Our manager at 41 years of age has delivered tactical lessons to pretty much every manager in our division save 2. And they are at Anfield in a few weeks time.
- Our club Captain has told the media how he is the best man manager he has ever worked with. This is a man who has worked with Rafa, Kenny and Ged.
- He has rehabilitated Sturridge and Coutinho.
- He has brought through Sterling and Flanagan, players who many questioned would be either not good enough or just one trick ponies.
- He has turned Henderson into my favourite player.
- He has turned Suarez from raw talent who didn't trust his team mates to score, into a player with the most assists and goals in the league. A record breaker.

We may not win the title this year. Given the money the likes of Chelsea and Man City have, we may not win it for many more years. But as Liverpool fans we have hope again. It's real and it's down to one man. Take the same squad of players and give them to another manager and see if they can do what he has done.

Yet still people will "not warm to him". He aimed a subtle and perfectly timed barb at David Moyes and Man Utd that the media didn't call him on it. Why? Because he has a relationship with them and they are starting to trust what he says.

I was raised to always support my manager and give him time. Did I have my doubts in August and September 2012? Yes. But I chose to not rant and rave. I chose to give him time, to immerse myself in information about what he was doing at the club, in the same way that he was immersing himself in Liverpool (something we expect of our manager).

I realise I've rambled on and we "haven't won anything yet", but there is more to this club than results. There is a culture. And this man. This slimline, middle management talking man with pearly white teeth gets Liverpool football club.

He cares. Cares about footballers as human beings and of football as a way of life.

The cynic would say that was a load of claptrap. But it's only bollocks if the man saying it doesn't believe it. Brendan does.

Thanks Brendan.

[MNAA]

I was unconvinced by Brendan. I didn't like his style, on and off the pitch, and I still hadn't got over how Rafa was stabbed in the back. In all honesty, that will always rankle with me. I loved Rafa. I still do. Then add what happened to Kenny to it, I just about lost all faith in the club.

Truth, I still don't like being owned by an investment company thousands of miles away, that very rarely shows it face. But being bought out by them after the awful H&G buisiness, it was all a bit much to bear. Then the hiring process of Brendan, and just to top it all off, that Being Liverpool, the envelopes, the portrait, the Shanklyisms and then the dreadful tippy tappy football.

And I'll be really honest, some things about Brendan still get on my wick. But then, I'm knocking on a bit and modern day football is hard for me take at times. I'm sure there was aul fellas that had supported Liverpool all their lives who got pissed off when Shanks came in and grabbed the club by the scruff of it's neck. And I hope the young kids watching this team, and the fantastic football Brendan has got them playing, have found their own Shankly and they'll be telling their grandkids stories about him 50 odd years from now.

The lad is doing a fantastic job. The football is some of the best I've ever seen this club play. At times, it really is something special. The players seem to love Brendan. He seems to have brought unity, and fun, back to the squad, or should I say group. And after all the turmoil, all the fans are behind him. So, who the fuck am I to piss on that because I think the last few years have been shite.

My advice, is stop moaning and enjoy it while you can. These are the good times. Don't be reading anything into press conferences, reading between the lines or worrying about the future. Just hope the nerves, that were bound to strike us, are behind us now after the Sunderland game, the group and the group in the stands. The lad is doing a bang on job. The only moan I have... he deserves a decent song and his head on a flag.

Well in Brendan, lad. You're making us dream, again.

[Corkboy]

That's a cracker.

[Yorkykopite]

That's a cracker.

It is.

[richmond-red]

Shit Leo, you said it all. Exactly my feelings over all. I HATED what happened to Rafa. I felt that the owl-faced c**t was a huge mistake. Kenny' s return made me so happy but when they dumped him I was so pissed off , I boycotted the US tour. I had huge doubts over Brendan and the whole Being Liverpool didn't help!
 But the way they are playing right now is amazing. Shades of  1987-8 is no exaggeration, go for it Brendan!

[conman]

Good job fs

[Midget]

The essence of being a football fan, and the valuable lesson of learning to enjoy life by PhaseOfPlay:

I don't think anyone is thinking we're seriously favourites. I think some people think that our name is on it, the way you'd say a team's name is on the cup. Interestingly, that particular superstition doesn't get jumped on anything like this one about the league does. Perhaps because one-off cup games can be so random, and any result can happen on the day.

But league games are no different. It's just that those ones are days apart rather than weeks and months. So people forget the randomness of each individual game, and start to apply connection between games that doesn't exist - like they are links on a track and one buckle can derail the whole thing. But that's not the case. The game is about 50% random chance and 50% skill, on average, and you manipulate those odds by increasing skill (or if you're and Allardyce or Pulis, manipulating random chance by kicking the ball into the scoring zones as often as possible). Then you carry over psychological momentum from game to game in the form of the Four C's - Concentration, Confidence, Commitment and Control.  It's when these four principles get abandoned that players start to believe in their own hype and lose the run of themselves. But if you listen to the post-match interviews, everyone from players to manager where singing from the same hymn sheet - "We're only thinking of the next game". So psychologically, the players are determined, focused and disciplined. So it comes down to their skill and tactics in each game, and those skills and tactics put us at an advantage over most other teams in the league. This advantage is what is encouraging people to dream of the title, because on our day we can beat anyone, and beat them well. So there's optimism rather than outright expectation. And there's nothing wrong with optimism. There's everything right about it. And that optimism leads to dreaming. And there's nothing wrong with dreaming. That's what supporters do. And yes, this creates a pressure - but it's a good pressure, and pressure that players need, because it prevents complacency. It's not overbearing, because it is based on hope and wishes rather than spoilt expectation (planes carrying banners, anyone?).

Players can and do, and sometimes must, take "one game at a time" - not because of jinxes or overconfidence, but because they need 100% focus on the next task in hand.

Managers and coaches can look a little further ahead, because they have to plan in blocks, physically and tactically, but the smart ones will carry the mantra of "one game at a time" even if they don't apply it in private

Supporters though - supporters don't have any such shackles. They can and should dream, every day, and express that dream, at every game. Why waste time, energy and money being a cautious cynic? There's enough crap in real life to keep your feet on the ground. The 90 minutes every weekend and mid-week should be a release - a chance to let go of the burden of everyday life to become, just for a moment, one with the players on the pitch in one collective dream life based on the kicking of a ball between two posts and a crossbar. It is, objectively, an unrealistic thing to get excited about in the first place. So if we're going to get excited about it, we may as well go the whole hog and be dreamers as well.

If we win this thing, I guarantee the cautious among us won't have enjoyed the season nearly as much as the dreamers did.

[the 92A]

Some fantastic writing in the Liverpool Man City roundtable but on Cowtownred's advice this belongs in here

Do youself a favour click on the link and enjoy this fine piece of writing
Poetry in motion, no less.  

[royhendo]

Mouth on Manchester United's hopes for the future.

Where to start. Fact is its quite easy to see, because you are us, you're where we where when you started winning the league and the CL became all important.

You need a new manager, new coaching staff etc. You need to rebuild all over the pitch. You are going to have trouble signing players because of no CL. You'll have to pay over the odds for anyone you do manage to get as well. Going round shouting you have loads to spend is the worst idea, in terms of signing players. Its good in terms of supporters, keeping them happy and believing, but you have to actually back it up. Will you be able to? Maybe, but once again, saying you have loads of money just makes other clubs and agents rub their hands and fuck you over.

You cant just go out and buy a new team whole sale, for one the players aren't available. For another, even if you can, there are no guarantees. You can go out and buy loads of players, who on paper are good enough, but stick them together and they don't work. Like Spurs have done this season. Being out the CL your targets are realistically going to be second tier players, good, but not quite good enough and mercs looking for money.

The rebuild job you need to do will take time, Ferguson himself didn't do it overnight, it took time. You get the right man and maybe its possible. You need someone who is good enough to win trophies, but is going to be willing to stick about and eat career time building a squad. Will you get such a man, will he be up to it and get the time to do it? Who knows, but given what's gone on before with other clubs, odds aren't on your side really. Look at Wenger for instance, nothing is certain.
Had you not dropped out of the CL it would of been a lot easier, to get the players etc. but still would of taken time. Now its going to take years.
You need a manager who is good enough, who can sign players to fit into his system of play as needed, not just buy any old player who is on the market or has great stats on football manager, need to build a team, like Ferguson did, that is a cohesive unit. That takes time. You know yourself Ferguson built the team and would take out and add players as needed, he didn't go out and get 6 or 7 players at a time, he had a core unit.
You need to strengthen and replace all over the pitch now, players will want to leave as well, you realistically will be able to buy one or two players who are good enough each season. So, you have a good strike force, but need midfielders and defenders, so you buy those kinds of players. Hopefully they are good enough and work out, but maybe they don't. However say you eventually sort it out, get a defence and midfield, who are good enough and are working together, by the time that happens, maybe you need more strikers (the current ones aren't good enough anymore or they have left for more money to win stuff a players career only lasts so long etc.) Basically what happens is you end up trying to plug a dam with a hundred leaks using your fingers and toes.

You needed to get someone in to replace Ferguson who would carry on where he left off, if not winning at least competing and getting in the CL. That Moyes has failed to do that, its fucked you in so many ways. You needed to get someone who had a career that showed some actual success or that there was a sign of progression. Moyes was the last one who did that, his time at Everton could be considered a very long interview for the job and it proved he was never up to it. Only have to look at the job his successor has come in and done at the same club, with mainly the same group of players. Yes he has added some, but Moyes could've done that and he didn't. If he had of done he would of played the same way he does, because that's who he is, that's what he does. Now that's who you are and that's what you do.
I think you'll end up keeping Moyes, and he will do what he was brought in to do, compete for top four, on a budget, like he did with Everton, but always consistently fall just short. That's his record, that's his football, that's Moyes, that's you now.

Of course I could be wrong, we'll see. Its going to be fun for us finding out, for you, not so much.

[royhendo]

Thanks to Saiorse08 for highlighting this one.

Our Gollum
who art in the 70's
hollowed be his game
thy 9th place come
This fail shall be done
as it was in 80's heaven
Give is our Dave, our Davey Moyes
and give many backpass for them
and lead them not into CL qualification
but deliver them to mid-table
For thine is the archaic system
The goalless hour after hour
for ever and ever
Red Men

[TepidT2O]

This is a lovely and important post about what it means to be a (young) football fan.

Dropped my middle one (aged 12) to the school bus this morning, and on the way I said to him "what do you reckon for City tonight then" ?  He turns straight back to me and says "they'll probably win, and win again on Sunday, seriously dad our chance has gone I reckon"

Cue me beginning the 'believe' speech trying to talk him round.

He stopped me dead and says

"I do believe dad, i've always believed.  I've just spent the last 2 months HONESTLY believing that we're going to be Champions.  Beginning of every season you tell me we're going to have a good season, and I believe you because like you always tell me, we used to win things all the time, you've seen the reds do it and you know what it feels like.  Grandad does the same, he always tells me that we're one of the greatest clubs in the world, and we're good enough to win things.  The difference is this time, I've seen why now.  Up to now i've seen us win the Carling Cup and beat Everton at Wembley but we haven't really won much else and I can't remember beating West Ham in the FA Cup.  But, honestly dad, REALLY believing that we're going to be Champions for the last couple of months has been boss, i'd love us to nick it on Sunday, but if we don't we'll do it next year, I HONESTLY believe that now.  We are getting there early for the bus again on Sunday aren't we,we ought to you know ?"

"You're dead right we are son"

[royhendo]

Our finest on the notion of Adam Lallana.

Me too.

I think it's because I've got used to the name 'Lallana'. When I first heard it I imagined him to be an exotic foreign player. Possibly French or Italian, maybe from even further afield. Chile perhaps. One could imagine Lallana being described as "the Maradona of the San Pedro de Atacama". That was exciting.

Then I saw him and was a little bit disappointed. Sure, he looked a fine player but his hair was brown not black and his skin pink not olive. Some of that skill seemed somehow less skilful. Still, I kept my hopes up.

Then of course he was interviewed and his accent was completely English. He also began sentences with the commonplace word "Obviously" rather than the mysterious "For sure". Someone said he'd been born in St Albans. I perked up for a moment. "You mean Verulamium?" I said. "Not really. Not since the Romans left".

At this point I lost interest in him. Where others raved about his tricky feet and clever movement off the ball and marvelled at the ease with which he outpaced defenders and played blind-side passes, I only saw someone tucking into a meat and potato pie. The goals flew in but it was such a let down. To have such a brilliant surname but to turn out never to have kicked his first football in some favela, barrio or banlieue. Unforgivable.

By the way I felt the same about Jay Rodriguez.

[Corkboy]

Lovely.

[royhendo]

KiNki on FFP - made me smile looking back on the not so distant past.

Thems the numbers, although the last set were the projections.

the 2013/14 revenue figures should be better due to our 2nd place finish, increased media money, and of course all the sponsorship deals sorted with dunkin donuts, subway, chevvy, vauxhall, belawood, jack wolfskin, indonesia airlines who are sponsoring the training kit, gatorade, konica minolta, ea sports, stanley, maxxis, some betting company and on and on.  The tv money is at least 40m nicker better than 2012/13.

2014/15 will be better due to champions league money, extra games, extra bums on seats, and all that goes with it, hot dogs and liverworld bags.  I think the standard chartered deal is up for renewal so chance of improving on that.

Our accounts wont get looked at until 2015.

I guess it helps when we dont sack managers and pay compo every other season and have to pay out again to get a new guy in, oh and pay out for shitty drawings for stadiums that wont get built.

[royhendo]

The position we are in right now you cannot replicate with money.  We are 24 months into a system, philosophy, vision, call it whatever you want.  We can see where we are headed.  We put a title challenge together last season, against all odds, mainly because we have a young hungry squad that has bought into the vision of a young hungry manager.  For all intents and purposes it seems that the senior management is completely engaged with the football operations.  It is all functioning as it should be.  We hear about disagreements but it seems we have a healthy tension rather than the internal warfare of the Hicks/Gillett years.  We have stability.

Compare to our rivals.  City/Chelsea are in a constant state of flux every 5 years or so when they either have to change the manager or rebuild the team.  They will always have a financial advantage but with a new era of regulation hitting football they will now be challenged.  We’ve seen that with City already.  United have a new manager which means they almost start from scratch.  Spurs are the same.  Thank God Everton didn’t qualify for the CL.  Arsenal are only other club that has some form of stability but they will have to face their own ‘Ferguson’ moment.  The end of an era and we’ll see how they cope with that change.

We are doing ok.  I am getting to the point where I don’t mind too much who is brought in as long as it is not a drastic departure from our current direction.  Filling the squad with £200k p/w players would be.

[Corkboy]

From the "Will you be supporting England" thread...

My England support has been a rollercoaster ride that's for sure. As a kid I supported them as fully as a kid can. I cried in '86 (try explaining injustice to an 8 year old) and believed throughout the 90's despite the odds being so stacked against us. Something changed between 2000 and 2014.  It wasn't Sven or the obsession the media had with the golden generation. I'd probably say it was a by product of getting older and realising that most of what we are told about England as an international side is just bollocks.

2002 was my last tournament when I still believed. With so many heavyweights falling early there was a sense of destiny brewing. The early goal in the QF against Brazil and it all felt possible. Then we caved and didn't even go out with that 'british bulldog fighting spirit' all the papers like to ram down our throats. We just went out in a damp squib. Best chance at winning the WC in years and we couldn't even get into 2nd gear against 10 men.

I paid lip service over the following years, slowly dropping the number of games I watched. First the pointless friendlies that always got in the way of the league season. 2004 and 2006 came and went. McClaren came, saw and wilted. We had Captain Terry and 'player power' and it was all just a bit too much.

By the time we'd got rid of Capello I was only really watching the games at the major tournaments. Everyone blames the manager despite the grassroots system being broken. But fear not here comes the Hodge.

The tournament in 2012 was the first time I'd wanted England to lose. I was bitter about Hodgson, I don't deny it. I'd just grown so tired of it all. Qualifying for this WC passed me by also. I might have seen one or two games in passing, but meh.

But...

Something has happened in the last few months. I put it entirely down to the nostalgia created by Liverpools swashbuckling ways this season. My childlike love of football has returned. The naive optimism in the face of the facts. The belief in the impossible. I've even been doing a panini sticker album for the first time since the 1990 WC when I was 12.

My hatred of the Hodge has gone. I'm comfortable in the fact that regardless of how England do, I know that Hodgson was not the manager for us and he can have whatever success he likes with whoever else he likes. Seeing lots of young players eager to put on the national shirt is nice. Seeing Gerrard having what is likely to be his England swansong as captain, backed up by lots of Liverpool lads just brings back the love for me.

It won't last. I know it won't. It's like believing in Santa. You grow up and the sheen just rubs off. But every once in a while you get completely wrapped up in christmas again and are a child all over again.

That's how I am with this WC. Maybe it's being in Brazil, maybe it's seeing Liverpool dominate the England setup or maybe it's just that Rodgers and co gave me my love of football back this season amidst all the money and media bollocks.

Come on England...

[fredfrop]

Perhaps this doesn't deserve to be here, but someone else can decide that.

[royhendo]

The obituary of the piper who played his bagpipes on Sword beach as men were fighting and falling all around him. Evidently there's a statue of him now in the nearby town of Coleville-Montgomery.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/special-forces-obituaries/7952729/Piper-Bill-Millin.html

This is what he played that day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryj_3Dfmf5M&feature=kp

Makes you almost proud to be Scottish.