Author Topic: 21/22 Goals and assists  (Read 142975 times)

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #280 on: January 9, 2018, 01:07:21 pm »
Yeah I was never sure about the balance of the 4 together and hypothetically if we had a final tomorrow with all 4 here I'm not sure he'd pick them all. It's more the option that's gone and not yet been replaced that's fucking me off. Like one game go Salah, Bobby, Mane another go Mane, Bobby, Phil (and have an immense sub to bring on), if one got injured, lost form we still have the other 3 to cope etc etc. As it is we've lost that and now if one gets injured we'll have to run two in to the ground or put in a replacement nowhere near their level. Hopefully that's rectified before the end of the window because as good as Lallana and Alex can be that's in the middle not out wide.

The problem with rotating 1 of the 4 out is that they're all so different, so taking one out requires a completely different type of replacement than the other. Arguably Salah and Mane could do each other's job, but Firmino's skill set is irreplaceable (certainly amongst our squad members) and is completely different to what Coutinho brought, which also is quite a unique skill set. Take one of the 2 Brazilians out and we need to play completely differently (or play the same with massive downgrades in those positions).

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #281 on: January 9, 2018, 01:46:42 pm »
Thanks for that analysis Bass, it's excellent. So basically for every 90mins they were on the pitch together they'd score 3 goals between them. That's a hell of a foundation for a team! Add in the odd goal from elsewhere and we're really talking. Even our (sometimes) comedy defence would be hard pressed to fuck that up.

Shame it was so brief....

Cheers, no worries.

The goalscoring figures aren't actually as impressive as they first appear when put into context of the whole team:

Liverpool total this season: 35.6 mins per goal
Fab Four all on the pitch: 31.8
Non-Fab Four time: 36.5

So we did score more often when they were all on the pitch, but not by a crazy amount.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #282 on: January 9, 2018, 03:15:39 pm »
Our creators.....

Just curious to see who steps up to fill the obvious gap we have now in games where it takes a bit of creativity to unearth a goal or assist. I really dont have a reference to work from in regards to the likes of Coutinho, Lallana, Ox, etc but its these stats (the assist to the assist) that  leads to our goalscorers. It will be an interesting one to keep a watch on now as the stat men can have a field day comparing 2017/18 season, before and after Coutinho.
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Offline Djozer

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #283 on: January 9, 2018, 03:50:22 pm »
Our creators.....

Just curious to see who steps up to fill the obvious gap we have now in games where it takes a bit of creativity to unearth a goal or assist. I really dont have a reference to work from in regards to the likes of Coutinho, Lallana, Ox, etc but its these stats (the assist to the assist) that  leads to our goalscorers. It will be an interesting one to keep a watch on now as the stat men can have a field day comparing 2017/18 season, before and after Coutinho.

Aye, the creative side will be interesting to watch. Whether or not Lallana/Ox/AN Other can step into the void left by Coutinho could go a long way towards determining the success, or otherwise, of this season. I've got a feeling someone will step up to the plate, but even if they do I don't think they'll be as effective as Coutinho was at creating chances for our forwards.

He seemed to have gotten particularly good at those little lofted balls over the defence over the past couple of seasons, although that may also have come as a result of having speedy wide forwards like Mane, and now Salah especially, to make runs off the backs of defenders. I don't see either Lallana or AOC as being as capable in that department and it wouldn't surprise me to see Salah's goalscoring rate drop a bit - he and Phil seemed to be building up a real understanding.

Hopefully we can find a way of making up for it in other ways, but that for me is one of the biggest worries I have about the loss of Coutinho. Time will tell.


Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #284 on: January 9, 2018, 05:06:41 pm »
As people have mentioned creators... Here's our assist combinations for this season.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #285 on: January 9, 2018, 05:15:11 pm »
As people have mentioned creators... Here's our assist combinations for this season.

Suggests to me that the most important player for us is the man from Egypt, and not the one in Barcelona
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #286 on: January 9, 2018, 05:22:20 pm »
Suggests to me that the most important player for us is the man from Egypt, and not the one in Barcelona

With Firmino not far behind.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #287 on: January 9, 2018, 07:55:37 pm »
As people have mentioned creators... Here's our assist combinations for this season.

Nice one mate, cheers for that. Any chance of doing chances created one too? Might be a bit harder to get the data and sort out, I'd guess, but it would be very interesting.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #288 on: January 9, 2018, 08:04:27 pm »
Suggests to me that the most important player for us is the man from Egypt, and not the one in Barcelona
You may very well be correct, although we should probably also take into account the fact that Coutinho's only played about two thirds the games that Mo and Bobby have. I'm not saying the loss of Coutinho will be a devastating blow, but I think we're definitely going to feel it.

I'm intriguedto see how Lallana and/or AOC perform in his stead - I think they can both perform the advanced 8/withdrawn 10 role, but will do it slightly differently as I don't think either have the range of passing nor the long range shooting he possesses. I wonder whether we'll adapt the way we play as a team slightly, or just slot one or other into the same position Coutinho's vacated (plus of course we still have 3 weeks of transfer window left, so anything might happen). Interesting times ahead.

Offline redmanraj

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #289 on: January 9, 2018, 08:08:26 pm »
You may very well be correct, although we should probably also take into account the fact that Coutinho's only played about two thirds the games that Mo and Bobby have. I'm not saying the loss of Coutinho will be a devastating blow, but I think we're definitely going to feel it.

I'm intriguedto see how Lallana and/or AOC perform in his stead - I think they can both perform the advanced 8/withdrawn 10 role, but will do it slightly differently as I don't think either have the range of passing nor the long range shooting he possesses. I wonder whether we'll adapt the way we play as a team slightly, or just slot one or other into the same position Coutinho's vacated (plus of course we still have 3 weeks of transfer window left, so anything might happen). Interesting times ahead.
Agreed

Offline redmanraj

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #290 on: January 9, 2018, 08:09:02 pm »
As people have mentioned creators... Here's our assist combinations for this season.

Thanks for all your work on this

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #291 on: January 10, 2018, 09:59:59 am »
Nice one mate, cheers for that. Any chance of doing chances created one too? Might be a bit harder to get the data and sort out, I'd guess, but it would be very interesting.

I did that for last season:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MHI2WHqKVggkNfd3fgxqy6g5KeLzCFehgrTGjYkTH0Q/edit#gid=0

It was very time consuming to sort out though, so I haven't done it this year. Coutinho has created the most chances for us in the league though (40) and they've been high quality on average - he has 0.39 expected assists per 90 this season, which is only behind Leroy Sane in the PL (for players who've played >1000 mins). Source: https://understat.com/team/Liverpool/2017
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:02:06 am by BassTunedToRed »

Offline Djozer

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #292 on: January 10, 2018, 01:13:21 pm »
I did that for last season:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MHI2WHqKVggkNfd3fgxqy6g5KeLzCFehgrTGjYkTH0Q/edit#gid=0

It was very time consuming to sort out though, so I haven't done it this year. Coutinho has created the most chances for us in the league though (40) and they've been high quality on average - he has 0.39 expected assists per 90 this season, which is only behind Leroy Sane in the PL (for players who've played >1000 mins). Source: https://understat.com/team/Liverpool/2017
Thanks for all your hard work, mate.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #293 on: January 15, 2018, 08:55:56 pm »
Salah - 24 goals [7 assists]
Firmino - 17 goals [9 assists]
Mane - 9 goals [5 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [3 assists]
Can - 4 goals [3 assists]
Sturridge - 3 goals [3 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]



Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #294 on: January 15, 2018, 09:36:08 pm »
Salah compared to Liverpool's other scorers of 20+ goals in the PL era.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #295 on: January 15, 2018, 09:43:00 pm »
Salah compared to Liverpool's other scorers of 20+ goals in the PL era.

Salah may play on the wing, but he's our "striker". Firmino is the "#10" as a second striker. Right now, Ox is our right-side mid, and Mane is our left wing. There's nothing new under the football sun ;D
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #296 on: January 16, 2018, 01:09:39 pm »
Looking at league goals only in the 38 game era, our top scorers are;

31 Suarez (13/14) (Joint all time PL record for all clubs)
28 Fowler (95/96)
24 Torres (07/08)
23 Suarez (12/13)
21 Sturridge (13/14)
19 Owen (01/02)
19 Owen (02/03)
18 Salah (17/18)
18 Fowler (96/97)
18 Owen (97/98)
18 Owen (98/99)
18 Torres (09/10)


Think that's everyone. (Can't find any season breakdowns for Collymore so not sure if he gets on the list).

How high can Salah go? If we do well in the CL I think he could get rested in some PL games so not sure if he'll beat 31. Nothing would surprise me with this guy though.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #297 on: January 16, 2018, 01:21:31 pm »
Collymore got 14 in 95/96 and 12 the year after.

I think Salah will end up 3rd on that list, maybe joint 2nd, can't see him beating 28.

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #298 on: January 16, 2018, 01:34:54 pm »
Looking at league goals only in the 38 game era, our top scorers are;

31 Suarez (13/14) (Joint all time PL record for all clubs)
28 Fowler (95/96)
24 Torres (07/08)
23 Suarez (12/13)
21 Sturridge (13/14)
19 Owen (01/02)
19 Owen (02/03)
18 Salah (17/18)
18 Fowler (96/97)
18 Owen (97/98)
18 Owen (98/99)
18 Torres (09/10)


Think that's everyone. (Can't find any season breakdowns for Collymore so not sure if he gets on the list).

How high can Salah go? If we do well in the CL I think he could get rested in some PL games so not sure if he'll beat 31. Nothing would surprise me with this guy though.

Think he's well on course to beat Torres but unlikely to catch Fowler or Suarez. Like you say, a lot will depend both on him staying injury free and on how far we progress in the FA Cup and Champions League.
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Offline Dubred

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #299 on: January 16, 2018, 01:35:53 pm »
Phenomenal really to have him on that list at all........all the others out and out strikers.

15 games left - you'd expect at least 5 goals if not more.  That would put him 4th behind Torres which would be an unbelievable achievement.

Can't see him ousting Suarez and Fowlers numbers but who knows eh?  He's exceeded all expectations so far.

p.s. you do forget that Owen never hit 20 league goals in a season here........ha!   ;D

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #300 on: January 16, 2018, 01:38:44 pm »
He’s got 18 in 22 and we’ve got 15 games left.....
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Offline Petadroli

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #301 on: January 16, 2018, 01:49:42 pm »
Salah compared to Liverpool's other scorers of 20+ goals in the PL era.

Pretty sure this is wrong, because Suarez did not play the first six games of our 13/14 season if I remember that correctly. He came back at Sunderland away and scored a brace. So his average is higher, I think almost 1 in 1.
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #302 on: January 16, 2018, 02:21:13 pm »
Pretty sure this is wrong, because Suarez did not play the first six games of our 13/14 season if I remember that correctly. He came back at Sunderland away and scored a brace. So his average is higher, I think almost 1 in 1.

I think you're thinking of league games. Bass is looking at all competitions.

According to Wiki Suarez played 33 league games (31 goals), 3 FA Cup games (0 goals) and 1 League Cup game (0 goals) that season, so overall played 37, scored 31 as Bass said.

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #303 on: January 16, 2018, 02:22:47 pm »
I think you're thinking of league games. Bass is looking at all competitions.

Spot on - my table is for all comps. Shared it on Twitter and had replies saying it must be wrong as Suárez got 31 league goals - people just assume he scored in the cups! But he didn't that year.

Offline Petadroli

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #304 on: January 16, 2018, 03:49:03 pm »
Spot on - my table is for all comps. Shared it on Twitter and had replies saying it must be wrong as Suárez got 31 league goals - people just assume he scored in the cups! But he didn't that year.

Ah yes, my fault. Was confused because the next scorer compared only premier league goals.
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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #305 on: January 16, 2018, 03:51:46 pm »
He’s got 18 in 22 and we’ve got 15 games left.....

On course for 30 goals at his current strike rate.  Anything above 25 would be a magnificent achievement to be honest.
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Offline JoeCole

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #306 on: January 16, 2018, 07:49:38 pm »
With our current run of fixtures I wouldn't be surprised to see Salah level with Torres by the end of February. Definitely could still get up there with Suarez by seasons end.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #307 on: January 28, 2018, 03:38:18 pm »

Salah - 25 goals [7 assists]
Firmino - 18 goals [10 assists]
Mane - 9 goals [5 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [3 assists]
Can - 4 goals [3 assists]
Sturridge - 3 goals [3 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #308 on: January 30, 2018, 10:17:56 pm »
UPDATE:

Looking at league goals only in the 38 game era, our top scorers are;

31 Suarez (13/14) (Joint all time PL record for all clubs)
28 Fowler (95/96)
24 Torres (07/08)
23 Suarez (12/13)
21 Sturridge (13/14)
19 Salah (17/18)
19 Owen (01/02)
19 Owen (02/03)
18 Fowler (96/97)
18 Owen (97/98)
18 Owen (98/99)
18 Torres (09/10)

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #309 on: January 30, 2018, 11:46:36 pm »

Salah - 26 goals [7 assists]
Firmino - 19 goals [10 assists]
Mane - 9 goals [6 assists]
Can - 5 goals [3 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [3 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]

Hopefully Wijnaldum,Lallana contribute more to this list.


Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #310 on: January 31, 2018, 08:29:18 am »
Firmino scored 11 goals in 2015/16, and 12 in 2016/17.

He has scored 12 in his last 14 starts.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #311 on: January 31, 2018, 09:45:44 am »
I am not one for quoting myself (honest :P), but I do think this particular post below is pertinent to how this team is judged by some: short-termist conclusions based on singular performances. Back in September I wrote this about what I felt was a very unfair meltdown about our strikers at the time. We had just drawn 1-1 away in Russia and it was the end of the world (again!).

With hindsight, the facts do not back-up the autumn neurosis that we lacked a quality striker to complement the team.

Quote
I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #312 on: February 4, 2018, 07:03:30 pm »

Salah - 28 goals [7 assists]
Firmino - 19 goals [10 assists]
Mane - 9 goals [6 assists]
Can - 5 goals [3 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [3 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #313 on: February 4, 2018, 07:06:32 pm »
UPDATE:

Looking at league goals only in the 38 game era, our top scorers are;

31 Suarez (13/14) (Joint all time PL record for all clubs)
28 Fowler (95/96)
24 Torres (07/08)
23 Suarez (12/13)
21 Salah (17/18)
21 Sturridge (13/14)
19 Owen (01/02)
19 Owen (02/03)
18 Fowler (96/97)
18 Owen (97/98)
18 Owen (98/99)
18 Torres (09/10)


12 more potential league matches for Salah this season.

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #314 on: February 6, 2018, 08:25:59 am »
Most goals in PL matches between the big six this season:

7: Salah

3: Alonso, De Bruyne, Firmino, Jesus, Kane, Sané

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #315 on: February 6, 2018, 12:41:38 pm »
Most goals in PL matches between the big six this season:

7: Salah

3: Alonso, De Bruyne, Firmino, Jesus, Kane, Sané

I fuckin' love a player who turns up in the big games.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #316 on: February 11, 2018, 06:56:57 pm »
UPDATE:

Looking at league goals only in the 38 game era, our top scorers are;

31 Suarez (13/14) (Joint all time PL record for all clubs)
28 Fowler (95/96)
24 Torres (07/08)
23 Suarez (12/13)
22 Salah (17/18)
21 Sturridge (13/14)
19 Owen (01/02)
19 Owen (02/03)
18 Fowler (96/97)
18 Owen (97/98)
18 Owen (98/99)
18 Torres (09/10)


11 more potential league matches for Salah this season.
9 more league goals needed to match Suarez 13/14.

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #317 on: February 11, 2018, 07:10:22 pm »
We have scored more goals away from home than any other side in the top 5 European leagues. We have also scored more goals at this present time than we have all of last year.

Salah - 29 goals [8 assists]
Firmino - 20 goals [11 assists]
Mane - 9 goals [6 assists]
Can - 5 goals [3 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [3 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #318 on: February 15, 2018, 01:50:30 am »

Salah - 30 goals [8 assists]
Firmino - 21 goals [12 assists]
Mane - 12 goals [6 assists]
Can - 5 goals [3 assists]
Chamberlain - 4 goals [4 assists]
TAA - 3 goals [1 assist]

Honorable mention to Milner, he has scored only one goal, but has 8 assists, 6 of which have come in the CL

« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:11:30 am by deFacto »

Offline farawayred

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Re: Our goalscorers
« Reply #319 on: February 15, 2018, 04:42:14 am »
IMO, the race to the golden boot should count penalties with less weight. Even 0.5 it too much, considering what fraction of penalties are scored. I take issue with otherwise good players who edge the competition on penalties (yes, fake Ronaldo, I mean you).
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."