Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold

[reddebs]

Agreed. Some of them don't understand what's asked of our midfield as well despite Klopp having done what he is for years now.

Yep I've posted similar in the midfield thread mate. 

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[BobPaisley3]

I think the pundits/commentators, oh and fans, who criticise his defensive work dont understand what Jurgen asks of him.

They just see his position is at RB and think he should be doing the same as a RB from years ago.

They use their ignorance as a subliminal way of attacking Jurgen [emoji6]

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Was the same with Moreno under Klopp in the early days. Don’t get me wrong, the lad made error after error and was at fault for various fuck ups in his time here but I remember a game against spurs in the carling cup where spurs broke and scored on the counter and Moreno was 80 yards up the pitch. Accusations of ‘its his fault, look where is.’ No regard for the attacking intent Klopp likes to see from his full backs.

[reddebs]

Was the same with Moreno under Klopp in the early days. Don’t get me wrong, the lad made error after error and was at fault for various fuck ups in his time here but I remember a game against spurs in the carling cup where spurs broke and scored on the counter and Moreno was 80 yards up the pitch. Accusations of ‘its his fault, look where is.’ No regard for the attacking intent Klopp likes to see from his full backs.

People get entrenched in how they see things or how they think things should be. 

Some will look, listen, learn and gradually start to see the merits of a new way, others stay entrenched.

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[Phil M]

Perhaps it's a jealously thing from two yard dog defenders who were shit with the ball?

Classy way to describe one of Liverpool's greatest ever servants.

[hesbighesred]

I think this pass map highlights it pretty well. You can't ask a player to carry a large offensive role and then whine about his defense.  Then don't ask him to do so much offensively?

As good as we were against Spurs, this graphic neatly highlights an attacking problem, doesn't it? I mean, look at the passes to Firmino - we've got an absolute artist like that as the fulcrum of our attack and there's barely a pass to him, not from FB, CM or from Mane or Salah. That might (partly) explain why, although we dominated the game and had a host of chances, we had relatively few high quality chances.

[CraigDS]

As good as we were against Spurs, this graphic neatly highlights an attacking problem, doesn't it? I mean, look at the passes to Firmino - we've got an absolute artist like that as the fulcrum of our attack and there's barely a pass to him, not from FB, CM or from Mane or Salah. That might (partly) explain why, although we dominated the game and had a host of chances, we had relatively few high quality chances.

Forward passing into the front 3 from our midfield, particularly Wijnaldum and Henderson, does seem to be nullifying our own forward line. Absolutely everything seems to go to the fullbacks - which is fine a portion of the time as they are excellent players, but varying it up and passing directly to the 3 forward players would make us much harder to defend against.

Would love to see a comparison when Keita plays.

[Phil M]

A lot of that was down to Spurs having a bank of 5 in front of the back four with Kane dropping deep as well. The spaces we exploited were consistently in wide areas because Rose and Aurier to a lesser extent tucked in and were protected by those in front. Firmino occupied Aldeweireld or Sanchez but then Sissoko and Winks were shuffling across in that space he loves to occupy to stop us having quick combinations on the edge of their box.
The 1-2 with Salah was one of the few times we opened them up centrally I seem to recall.  Look at the Genk game and see the difference in a less well organised shape committing men forward and us expertly picking out players like Ox with direct passes to feet between their lines. Our players know how to exploit weaknesses in oppo systems, Klopp and his staff excel in adapting in game when changes need to be made tactically.

[pathetic]

Where did the "he's shit defensively" narrative come from??? Have these people watched us play for the last 2 years? Dare I say it, he's become more solid at the back then Robertson and in no way is it a dig at Robbo as he's excellent defensively.

[CraigDS]

Where did the "he's shit defensively" narrative come from??? Have these people watched us play for the last 2 years? Dare I say it, he's become more solid at the back then Robertson and in no way is it a dig at Robbo as he's excellent defensively.

Seems to be one of those things that's come after he had a bad game (or couple of games) defensively, and them commentators decided to bang on about it every single game and the sheep regurgitate this online and to their mates, and before long it's snowballed into the 'truth'.

[Sangria]

Forward passing into the front 3 from our midfield, particularly Wijnaldum and Henderson, does seem to be nullifying our own forward line. Absolutely everything seems to go to the fullbacks - which is fine a portion of the time as they are excellent players, but varying it up and passing directly to the 3 forward players would make us much harder to defend against.

Would love to see a comparison when Keita plays.

A lot of the time, we seem to be moving the ball around until Trent is in position to receive the ball in space, when we'd automatically give it to him. He's supposed to have played as Gerrard in the playground, who himself played as Barnes in the playground. We seem to be using Trent as our primary outlet in the way that we used to use Barnes.

[Coolie High]

Where did the "he's shit defensively" narrative come from??? Have these people watched us play for the last 2 years? Dare I say it, he's become more solid at the back then Robertson and in no way is it a dig at Robbo as he's excellent defensively.

Nope he isn't more solid than Robertson, but hes a couple years younger and better technically so thats to be expected. TAA is a phenom in some respects, people can't understand how arguably the most creative player in Europe is  a 21 year old RB, who has been a big part of the best defence in Europe over the last two years, he is almost too good for his own good, which causes people to marginalize and put emphasis on the little things he does wrong, because he is so near perfect, you have to critiscize him on something.

The truth is, he is a great defender and an even better attacker, he is as complete as a full back could hope to be all at 21, players like Neville feel the need to throw sly digs because he was a player of far lesser talent in the same position, and no one wanted to grow up being Gary Neville but plenty young kids will want to be TAA.

[Coolie High]

As good as we were against Spurs, this graphic neatly highlights an attacking problem, doesn't it? I mean, look at the passes to Firmino - we've got an absolute artist like that as the fulcrum of our attack and there's barely a pass to him, not from FB, CM or from Mane or Salah. That might (partly) explain why, although we dominated the game and had a host of chances, we had relatively few high quality chances.

Exactly the point, our forwards actually get few high quality chances, the ones they had came from Fabinho's wonderful lofted passes mostly, which incidentally also resulted in our goal.

[BrandoLFC]

Nope he isn't more solid than Robertson, but hes a couple years younger and better technically so thats to be expected. TAA is a phenom in some respects, people can't understand how arguably the most creative player in Europe is  a 21 year old RB, who has been a big part of the best defence in Europe over the last two years, he is almost too good for his own good, which causes people to marginalize and put emphasis on the little things he does wrong, because he is so near perfect, you have to critiscize him on something.

The truth is, he is a great defender and an even better attacker, he is as complete as a full back could hope to be all at 21, players like Neville feel the need to throw sly digs because he was a player of far lesser talent in the same position, and no one wanted to grow up being Gary Neville but plenty young kids will want to be TAA.

I'd argue Robertson is the better athlete.

[Scottymuser]

Exactly the point, our forwards actually get few high quality chances, the ones they had came from Fabinho's wonderful lofted passes mostly, which incidentally also resulted in our goal.

Well, there were a few high quality chances - Trent's wonderful ball to Mane, where he then missed a free header it looked easier to score from, was one imo.  It's true though that a lot of the other chances were Trent's wonderful crossing, usually from free kicks, which resulted in non-front 3 players having the chances. 

[Morgana]

Seems to be one of those things that's come after he had a bad game (or couple of games) defensively, and them commentators decided to bang on about it every single game and the sheep regurgitate this online and to their mates, and before long it's snowballed into the 'truth'.

Nicely summed up. It's such an entrenched narrative now that even when our other defenders make mistakes Trent gets the blame.

[RedForeverTT]

Neville is jealous of him as they play in the same position and hence the snide remarks here and there.

I don’t even remember Neville was even close to TAA’s level at his peak. And he was quite a solid defender.

TAA is the best right back in England since Steven Gerrard.

[Rainbow Laces]

I heard an old song yesterday for the first time in a while, I don't particularly like the song but as soon as I heard it I heard Trent's name in there and reckon this could be a great song to use for him. "Message in a bottle" by The Police. It really fits and has a great stand-friendly rhythm to it as well. Have a listen to the song with these words (or similar) in place of the original, and imagine it on the kop:

"He whips the crosses in from the right, he whips the crosses in from the right,
I hope that someone gets my, I hope that someone gets my, I hope that someone gets my...
Trent Alexander-Arnold, Trent Alexander-Arnold."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObL3L6MRvN4 (relevant part from 0:32 by the way)

[OneTouchFooty]

Neville is jealous of him as they play in the same position and hence the snide remarks here and there.

I don’t even remember Neville was even close to TAA’s level at his peak. And he was quite a solid defender.

TAA is the best right back in England since Steven Gerrard.

Fullbacks who can’t get forward and contribute in attack always seem to get more praise defensively and ones who are great in attack seem to get criticised for their defensive abilities for the sake of it. Dani Alves & Marcelo both got stick for it earlier in their careers.

If you want him to be a Wan-Bissaka or Phil Bardsley who’s legs turn to custard past the halfway line and just sit in and defend then I’m sure he’d look a lot better. Limited FBs are two a penny, ones with Trent’s attacking ability are so rare and valuable. Time is on his side to improve the other side of his game.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Neville is jealous of him as they play in the same position and hence the snide remarks here and there.

I don’t even remember Neville was even close to TAA’s level at his peak. And he was quite a solid defender.

TAA is the best right back in England since Steven Gerrard.

In Neville's era (especially at United) full-backs didn't bomb forward like they do now and provide the width. They supported the attack but didn't overlap their wingers as much. Neville also had David Beckham ahead of him, it was a case of passing him the ball and letting him whip his crosses in.

In todays game Neville would struggle to get a game for a top team which requires its full-backs to provide the width. He might still get a game at United though seeing as AWB is similarly limited going forward.   

[Jookie]

Trent is a brilliant right back. Unbelievable going forward. Pretty solid defensively. As a 21 year old he still has things he can improve on. He's perfect for the full back role in our team and how the full back role has evolved in the last 10-15 years. Probably driven by the likes of Alves, Cafu, Marcelo, Alba, Alaba etc..

However, I can believe how precious and sensitive you are to a bit of criticism of Trent from a pundit. I honestly don't see people hammering him. Maybe the criticism of his defensive play is a bit OTT and bit dated -  he was a hit vulnerable defensively at times 12-18 months ago.

The shouts that Carragher is jealous of him and that he was a yard dog are fucking wild. And both completely untrue. If there's anyone over 30 saying Carragher was a yard dog then you seriously need to have a rethink about how you view football. Also, Neville wasn't a yard dog either. He was an excellent full back for what was required  by full backs in that day and age. You don't play a pivotal role in multiple league winning teams and win the CL without being more than half-decent.

Some of you need to really calm down  on what pundits say and let it be water of a ducks back. Not every pundit is out to get us. Not every pundit hates us. Go onto any forum of a rival team and they'll be spouting the same paranoid bollocks about pundits or commentators hating their team or overly criticising a certain player. Pundits aren't biased in general. They just talk a bit of shit at times or exaggerate a point to make a discussion point for a 2 hour long programme. If you don't like it then turn off. That's what I do.

[classycarra]

Trent is a brilliant right back. Unbelievable going forward. Pretty solid defensively. As a 21 year old he still has things he can improve on. He's perfect for the full back role in our team and how the full back role has evolved in the last 10-15 years. Probably driven by the likes of Alves, Cafu, Marcelo, Alba, Alaba etc..

However, I can believe how precious and sensitive you are to a bit of criticism of Trent from a pundit. I honestly don't see people hammering him. Maybe the criticism of his defensive play is a bit OTT and bit dated -  he was a hit vulnerable defensively at times 12-18 months ago.

The shouts that Carragher is jealous of him and that he was a yard dog are fucking wild. And both completely untrue. If there's anyone over 30 saying Carragher was a yard dog then you seriously need to have a rethink about how you view football. Also, Neville wasn't a yard dog either. He was an excellent full back for what was required  by full backs in that day and age. You don't play a pivotal role in multiple league winning teams and win the CL without being more than half-decent.

Some of you need to really calm down  on what pundits say and let it be water of a ducks back. Not every pundit is out to get us. Not every pundit hates us. Go onto any forum of a rival team and they'll be spouting the same paranoid bollocks about pundits or commentators hating their team or overly criticising a certain player. Pundits aren't biased in general. They just talk a bit of shit at times or exaggerate a point to make a discussion point for a 2 hour long programme. If you don't like it then turn off. That's what I do.

Do you not think it's slightly hypocritical to suggest people shouldn't really be bothered or potentially even discuss how a nationally broadcast pundit discusses our young players in a slightly moralising post in which you are bothered about how posters on RAWK discuss that player and how he's perceived?

Don't mean to sound hyper critical but you have literally said yourself there what most of us are saying "Maybe the criticism of his defensive play is a bit OTT and bit dated". But then gone on to generalise and describe people who share your view as "precious and sensitive" and suggest they need to "calm down".

[Jookie]

Do you not think it's slightly hypocritical to suggest people shouldn't really be bothered or potentially even discuss how a nationally broadcast pundit discusses our young players in a slightly moralising post in which you are bothered about how posters on RAWK discuss that player and how he's perceived?

Don't mean to sound hyper critical but you have literally said yourself there what most of us are saying "Maybe the criticism of his defensive play is a bit OTT and bit dated". But then gone on to generalise and describe people who share your view as "precious and sensitive" and suggest they need to "calm down".

The precious and sensitive bit comes from the over the top reaction.

Is calling Carragher a yard dog defender reasonable in your eyes?

Is calling Carragher jealous of TAA justifiable or formed on any basis of evidence?

My general point is that most fans of every club think pundits are biased against their clubs as a collective. They aren't. Also, TV and radio companies stir debate by having people exaggerate opinions to create a reaction. My point is don't take it all too seriously. Not to the point that you are calling out a player who has done loads for this club as a yard dog defender or jealous.

You just spent the whole summer hammering anyone on here who had a different opinion to you, bit of a cheek that! If you don't like it then turn it off.

Though it's cute you think no pundit can be biased. What a lovely, trusting view of the world.

When did I hammer anyone on here over the summer about having a different opinion? Are you on about transfers and not buying anyone?

If so, that's another example of what I think is an over reaction to a situation. Or of people not seeing the wider picture on why people make certain decisions or say certain things.

Sorry if I caused any offence though. My aim isn't to hammer anyone on here or shut down conversation.

[classycarra]

Sorry if I caused any offence though. My aim isn't to hammer anyone on here or shut down conversation.

None with me mate    enjoy your posts

[El Lobo]

The way I look at it, if Gary Neville was a 9-out-of-10 RB defensively, TAA would be a 7. Well above average and perfectly adequate defensively. But offensively, if G Neville was a 5, TAA is a 10.

TAA is already in the top5 attacking fullback's I've ever seen. He doesn't have the pace/power of Cafu or Alves, but his passing is the best I've ever seen in a fullback.

Yeah, he wasn’t a 9/10 full back defensively though. Probably a 6/10 all round.

[blert596]

Trent is better defensively than the so called "great in defence" Wan Bissaka.

But Wan Bissaka is much better going forw... oh hang on.

[mwaheedf]

one of the best full backs for his age. snm

[Mahern]

Liverpool's Philip Lahm

[Funky_Gibbons]

Liverpool's Philip Lahm

Lahm averaged a goal or assist every 6.5 games in Germany, TAA is currently scoring or assisting every 3.5 games.

Even someone like Marcelo is one GorA every 3.9 games at Real Madrid.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Trent has a much broader skillset than Philipp Lahm, who was a brilliant player (and a better natural defender imo) but tended to keep it short and simple in possession. Trent is more Dani Alves.

[Mahern]

Trent has a much broader skillset than Philipp Lahm, who was a brilliant player (and a better natural defender imo) but tended to keep it short and simple in possession. Trent is more Dani Alves.

Lahm averaged a goal or assist every 6.5 games in Germany, TAA is currently scoring or assisting every 3.5 games.

Even someone like Marcelo is one GorA every 3.9 games at Real Madrid.

Sure, but I am talking about his stature as the scouser in the team

[El Lobo]

He’s good but he’s nearly three years older than Neco Williams. Worrying times.

[sinnermichael]

TAA interview with Guillem Balague on Five Live tonight at 9pm.

[rebel23]

It was weird watching us last night without TAA and Robertson.  They really are so influential for us,

[jillcwhomever]

Great interview he came across really well.

[mike777]

Great interview he came across really well.

Absolutely thought the same.  Very mature for his years and a credit to himself, his family and all involved in his upbringing as well as a boss player and future LFC captain.  Would recommend the interview to anyone on BBC Sounds/I-player or whichever podcast app you use; great listen.

[sinnermichael]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0009qs7

[PIPA23]

excellent interview... great on and off the pitch.

[bradders1011]

100th first team appearance if he plays at Villa tomorrow. He's going after Cally.

[JovaJova]

There isn’t a better full back in world football. Tore Villa to shreds today, as he does every week these days..

[aw1991]

I think Kevin De Bruyne could be Manchester City's Trent Alexander Arnold