Author Topic: Paris  (Read 184169 times)

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1640 on: June 21, 2022, 04:02:24 pm »
Francois-Noel Buffet: "Let's be clear before we start. We know that English football fans were not the cause of what happened at the Stade de France."


Ted Morris @tedthered77

(@LiverpoolDSA)Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association

: "I don't ever want to come back to Paris if we are going to be treated in the same way again in future. There have been so many lies about what happened from those in power here."

 "The pre-filter check was chaotic with very young and inexperienced stewards who didn't know what they were doing. Many local young adults tried to pass the stewards which was frightening."

"There where supporters in wheelchairs forced to wait in dangerous queues for an hour. One was allowed through the turnstiles but his companion was not. It was a very chaotic situation."

"I started to receive messages saying disabled people were being tear gassed and were terrified. Some feared for their lives."

 "A steward told us there were no lights in the disabled toilets. He told me to use the torch on my phone to go to the toilet."

"It was only thanks to the great behaviour of Liverpool fans that a catastrophe was avoided. Nobody in a position of power came to help disabled fans."

 "A 14-year-old disabled fan has burns from the effects of tear gas. He went to the match with his Dad and was excited, but was left terrified."

"There was a disabled fan who attended the match with his elderly father. He was attacked by a gang of locals and had his belongings stolen."

"A disabled woman who was being squashed against the gates had her cries for help went unaided. It was Liverpool fans who saved her."

 "A fan with cardiac issues was attacked by police officers and tear gassed."

"A young boy with multiple sclerosis was attacked three times with tear gas. These are just a few stories of the many we have had. These have been excluded in the Michel Cadot report."

"Shocking treatment was done to men, women and children with disabilities. They were treated like animals. This a shame on the authorities."

"Locals attacked us. It was terrifying, and even more terrifying for those in wheelchairs."

"For me and my wife this experience was terrifying. It was the worst experience I've had following Liverpool FC. We were totally abandoned by the authorities after the match."

 "The authorities are responsible for everything which happened at the Stade de France. No supporter, of Liverpool or Real Madrid was at fault. The authorities must accept this responsibility, or the Olympic Games cannot take place in Paris."

"If no changes are made by the authorities, I would advise wheelchair users to avoid any event at the Stade de France."

"Gérald Darmanin has brought shame on France and the French government. His lies made things so much worse. He should apologise or resign. His lies have reminded us of those after Hillsborough. He should be ashamed."

"I thank you Mr. Lafon and Mr. Buffon for listening to disabled supporters. You must find the truth."

"Until the truth is known, we will not stop."


Excellent from Ted. Harrowing examples of what happened to disabled supporters.

Joe Blott speaking now.




(All translated by the amazing @_Dan_Austin)


RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1641 on: June 21, 2022, 04:20:36 pm »
Joe Blott
@JoeblottJoe

(@spiritofshankly)

"This is the first time
since the match was moved to Paris on 25 February, or since Liverpool Football Club qualified to the final on 3 May, that a government institution has agreed to hear from Liverpool fans. We thank you for this."

"As foreign people invited to speak in your Senate, we are not here to seek some sort of revenge. Firstly, we want to explain the truth of what happened. But we also want to help things improve in the future."

"It is important to stress that not just English or British people have been affected by the failures of French authorities and the subsequent attempts to shift blame onto innocent fans. Liverpool is a global club with fans all over the world."

"The events at the Stade de France on 28 May have been reported from the USA to Australia and most countries in between. This is a truly international issue."

"The mayor of the 12th arrondissement wrote to the Spirit of Shankly and Liverpool’s city leaders to compliment the exemplary behaviour of all fans at the fan park, but even here policing was heavy-handed."

"Merseyside police force stated in their pre-match report that, and I quote 'for the past ten years Liverpool supporters have been extremely well behaved in Europe. They have not been involved in any incidents of disorder.'"

"Liverpool fans had travelled across Europe this season, to Spain, Portugal and Italy with zero arrests, zero known risk supporters, zero preventive arrests and zero ejections from stadia. Over 25,000 fans showed exemplary behaviour all season long."

 "Why was the good behaviour record of Liverpool fans ignored? The police were stuck in the 1980s and believed lies about the Hillsborough disaster."

"On what basis can Gérald Darmanin possibly make this claim? There is no evidence for it. He and the police are hiding behind out-dated, ignorant and downright offensive views about football fans to try and cover up their own desperate failures."

"To hear French authorities use similar lies to those used by the British all those years ago once again in 2022, about fans arriving late, or with fake tickets, or drunk, has caused an immense amount of shock, anger and pain."

"The Cadot report described 30 to 40,000 Liverpool fans travelling to Paris without tickets. Fans are perfectly entitled to travel to the host city in order to spend their money as tourists and be a part of the atmosphere."

"If there were 40k ticketless fans, plus the 20k official ticket holders, plus at least 15k who purchased UEFA allocated tickets in neutral zones, that would mean that nearly 75k were at the stadium. That is absurd, untrue and scurrilous."

"The frankly ludicrous number of fake tickets the interior minister suggested had been captured must also be debunked."

"The authorities abandoned the pre-filter check and allowed any of the local young adults through around the outside of the stadium."

"150 to 200 police officers lined up in full riot gear in front of Liverpool fans inside the stadium shortly before full-time, in a blatant  attempt at provocation. Pitch invasions have never been a part of Liverpool culture."

"Why was there a complete lack of signage between the RER station and the stadium?

"Why are the transport figures used to make claims about fans unclear, unsubstantiated, and changing day by day?"
 "Why was the French Football Federation’s request to split fans into two separate pre-filter queues ignored?

Why did the authorities not try at any point to communicate with fans about the problems and possible solutions?"

"France chose to host this prestigious football match and to organise it at the Stade de France. Fans paid up to €670 for a match ticket. The management of the game was completely flawed."

"Failures by the French state leaving some fans traumatised, and others with serious injuries."

"These fans were indiscriminately tear gassed and beaten. Many feared for their lives in dangerous crushes, and some left the vicinity for their own safety."

"How did the authorities get the management of this game so wrong? Why was their first instinct to blame fans, with a lie about late arrivals broadcast on the big screens at the Stade de France?

"The hooligans that French police spent months preparing for from Liverpool simply do not exist. They did not alter their tactics when no hooligans arrived, and instead treated families, children, and people with disabilities like criminals."

 "Liverpool fans behaved calmly and ensured there were no deaths outside the Stade de France."

"There must be a full independent and transparent investigation so the world can once more have confidence in the ability for France to hold global sporting events. Without such an investigation, the world cannot have that confidence."

 "We demand a full apology and a retraction of the lies."


Superb from Joe Blott.




(All translated by the amazing @_Dan_Austin)






« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 04:25:26 pm by mersey_paradiso »
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1642 on: June 21, 2022, 04:26:26 pm »
Just listening to a Real Madrid supporter.  He's French-Spanish.

Said he's attended 8 finals before this one, never had any trouble, including twice against Liverpool (1981, 2018).
Also said, three times at the time of writing this, they met many Liverpool supporters who were all "very peaceful", and their behaviour was "Very correct", and that he did not at all comprehend the false accusations of the French minister towards the Liverpool supporters.

Overall, having a go at the organisation (or lack thereof) and the attacks by local gangs, and how the police were passive towards those.

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1643 on: June 21, 2022, 04:30:30 pm »
Emilio Dumas (Real Madrid fan):

"I am a Real Madrid member since 30 years. I am half French, half Spanish. I have always loved France. I came to watch the match with three friends. I bought a paper ticket for Gate N."

"I have been to two other Champions League finals in Paris. 8 in total. I have never lived anything like happened this time."

 "There were many young locals at our fan park who were not Real Madrid fans. Many female fans and young women were attacked and harassed by them."

"There was no signage or information for accessing the stadium. There was a clear lack of organisation already."

 "Many young pickpockets robbed from Real Madrid fans. The father of a friend had his phone stolen for example."

"For the elderly and disabled there was a huge problem at the turnstiles. It was very dangerous. The queue at Gate N was about 300 metres long. There were local young adults mixed in with us. They were still thieving and being aggressive."

 "I do not understand the minister of the interior Gérald Darmanin's version of events at all."

"Our team won but we were more worried than happy. There was danger outside after the match."

"We had what happened at Hillsborough in our heads. This was a completely horrendous experience."

"I have never seen such a passive and inactive attitude from a police force as there was after the match at the Stade de France."

"Why have this game at the Stade de France? Why have it in an area as dangerous as Saint-Denis? The idea that three months was not enough time to prepare is completely unacceptable."

 "In 2018 the Copa Libertadores between River Plate and Boca Juniors went off without incident in Madrid with a very short preparation time."

"I was terrified for myself and my friends. I feel shame for France and its reputation around the world. This is an unacceptable thing to have happened in a country like France. Thank you for listening to me."


(All translated by the amazing @_Dan_Austin)

RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1644 on: June 21, 2022, 04:37:00 pm »
.
'UEFA doubles down on blame of Liverpool fans over Stade de France fiasco in shock senate hearing' (10.42am):-

UEFA has doubled down on its choice to blame Liverpool fans for the carnage which occurred at the Stade de France last month at the Champions League final between the Reds and Real Madrid.

UEFA events CEO Martin Kallen provided no evidence for his version of events.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/uefa-doubles-down-on-blame-of-liverpool-fans-over-stade-de-france-fiasco-16863398 - by Dan Austin



'UEFA admits its ticket system can be brought down by a faulty pen in shocking reveal of incompetence' (12.44pm):-

UEFA has admitted that it’s entire ticketing system can be brought down by a faulty pen in a shocking insight into the organisation’s incompetence.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/uefa-admits-its-ticket-system-can-be-brought-down-by-a-faulty-pen-in-shocking-reveal-of-incompetence-16864196 - by Dan Austin

Good luck hearing the UEFA anthem next season at Anfield.

Convinced a lot of this shit from UEFA comes from FSG being one of the main if not the main driver behind the super league. They are a deeply corrupt organisation.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1645 on: June 21, 2022, 04:41:13 pm »
Ronan Evain of Football Supporters Europe (France) started by stressing there is a need to get rid of old stereotyping of hooliganism that Liverpool supporters suffer from - these "no longer exist".  Said that the police treated Liverpool (and Real) supporters as a threat. 

There were mainly (or only) riot-police on the ground, indicating the frame of mind of the authorities in approaching this event.

Talked about how paper tickets are normal, he's a Nantes fan and uses them with no issues.  The authorities had 3 months to prepare.

Finished by saying France needs to get up to speed, like other European neighbours around, in organising football events.

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1646 on: June 21, 2022, 04:48:11 pm »
Ronan Evain
(@FansEurope):

 "Liverpool and Real Madrid fans were treated like we football fans in France are all the time. Like a menace. These hooligans spoken of don't exist."

"We have an attitude towards big sporting events which is out-dated and dangerous. We must have a more modern approach to policing."

 "We had paper tickets for the final of the Coupe de France. I don't understand how paper tickets have supposedly become such a threat in the space of three weeks."

"Some Liverpool fans had to go three hours without access to water. Nothing justifies that."



Pierre Bathélemy
(@FansEurope) :

"We could for example have PSG vs Liverpool in just a few months. Much work must be done quickly."

"The senate must remain active on this very fundamental issue. We must improve signage, transport and crowd management."

"France is the only country in Europe which bans its fans from travelling to away games. We have to stop acting like we don't know how to deal with football fans."

"From 18:00 we knew there was a massive problem with crowd crushing at them Stade de France. Nobody reacted for two hours."

"We have to understand the differences between groups of football supporters. We can't just treat them all as the same."

"Stewards are so important. We have a massive issue with hiring them, training them, and paying them well enough. Some were 18 or 19 and working at their first ever match."

 "We have a doctrine about fight against hooliganism rather than communicating and working together with fans."




Again, all translated by @_Dan_Austin






RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1647 on: June 21, 2022, 04:55:57 pm »
A senator asking a question apologises to Liverpool fans and says that explanations must be given.

"When the authorities in France accuse Liverpool fans of hooliganism, that is unbelievable" says a senator.

Patrick Kanner, senator and former socialist French sports minister, thanks "our British and Spanish" friends for their "shocking and apocalyptic" accounts of what happened at the Stade de France.

Senator Patrick Kanner: "I believe that the demand from our English friends to bring Gérald Darmanin's version of events into the light is useful. Perhaps we should interrogate him again. There are blatantly things to be discovered."
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1648 on: June 21, 2022, 04:56:36 pm »
Excellent stuff from everyone involved, thank you.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline Chakan

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1649 on: June 21, 2022, 04:57:37 pm »
Sounds like no one is buying their bullshit. Good.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1650 on: June 21, 2022, 04:59:51 pm »
Sounds like a highly competent performance by the witnesses from Liverpool, Madrid and France this afternoon.

I wonder if the Senators will bring Darminin back for a second go?

(Thanks too to Dan Austin)
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Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1651 on: June 21, 2022, 05:00:11 pm »
French senators commenting. 
A couple of samples:

One was addressing Joe Blott, said they could only apologise for what happened in Paris.  He also said that after the Heysel disaster, and Liverpool's work on completely eradicating hooliganism, he found it incredible (<astounding>) that the French interior minister and sports minister mentioned hooliganism in their language.

Another senator asked if there could be another questioning/interrogation of the interior minister in light of all the testimonies.

All in all, so far, all senators who spoke have been completely supportive and understanding of what really happened.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 05:02:49 pm by bloke »

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1652 on: June 21, 2022, 05:04:50 pm »


Another senator asked if there could be another questioning/interrogation of the interior minister in light of all the testimonies.



Would love to see him brought back and squirming under cross-examination.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1653 on: June 21, 2022, 05:10:12 pm »
"We apologise on behalf of France" says the next senator.

The next senator says: "I want to thank our Spanish and English friends for their testimonies. We have the same goal here, to show the truth of what happened."

"When we look at the TV coverage of the match from TF1, we see none of this famous 30-40,000 number of people" says the next senator.

Senators asking plenty of questions designed to allow fans to prove Gérald Darmanin wrong.


Ronan Evain
(@FansEurope):


"The police sent to Liverpool were largely impossible to locate. The online form to make a complaint also isn't great."

"If we put rugby or Olympics fans in the same situation as we put Liverpool fans, we could see a much worse response and outcome."




« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 10:47:38 pm by mersey_paradiso »
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1654 on: June 21, 2022, 05:14:28 pm »
Ronan Evain of Football Supporters Europe (France) again:

Said the interior minister's lie about the 30-40k supporters with fake tickets started with a hasty report (from the ground), and then the government got stuck/blockaded in that and do not want to get out of that blockade.

Pierre Barthélemy, also of Football Supporters Europe (France) confirmed there were no 30-40k supporters with fake tickets outside the stadium.  He said all there was were Liverpool supporters with valid tickets, peacefully lining up to try to get in, and local youths climbing fences to try to get in.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:10:09 am by bloke »

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1655 on: June 21, 2022, 05:14:55 pm »
Ted Morris @tedthered77

(@LiverpoolDSA)Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association



"Why has Gérald Darmanin lied? That's the key question. I hope these hearings will give you the answer to the question."


"Why has the CCTV been deleted? In my opinion it's because the images don't support Gérald Darmanin's version of events."

"The 30-40,000 ticketless fans figure is absolutely not correct. We are strongly trying to show that."



Joe Blott
(@spiritofshankly) :

"Thanks to senators for listening to us and asking such pertinent questions. Yes, there are examples of tickets being taken by stewards."

"Supporters of Liverpool and Real Madrid did not cause problems. In 2018 in Kyiv there was no violence. The difference this time is the presence of local gangs."




(translated by @_Dan_Austin)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 05:16:30 pm by mersey_paradiso »
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1656 on: June 21, 2022, 05:15:51 pm »
What the thing on Sky earlier ? I was having a pint and seen it but the volume was turned off . If anyone has a link for it . Thanks.
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Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1657 on: June 21, 2022, 05:25:21 pm »
Interesting:  The Real Madrid fan spoke again.  He said regarding fake tickets, he witnessed about 10 Real supporters with valid tickets at the turnstiles have their tickets snatched by the local thugs, and when they went after them, the thugs had an incredible technique whereby they had a fake ticket ready, and would return that to the supporters who then could not get inside the stadium.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1658 on: June 21, 2022, 05:29:42 pm »
Don't suppose we can take this to CAS? It's not really sports related, and in any case we most probably have to wait for the outcome of UEFA's impending farce of an whitewash "investigation".
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Offline bloke

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1659 on: June 21, 2022, 06:17:52 pm »
The Mayor or Saint-Denis, Mathieu Hanotin speaking:

Dances around the subject.  Mentions ticketless fans/fake tickets, doesn't originally say trying to get in.

Brings up the (terrorist) attacks in the stadium in 2015 as a reason for their security-driven approach to managing the event.

Says in the days leading up to the match, there were no issues, but they were surprised by the amount of people around the stadium on matchday, they were overwhelmed.  That he saw that there was pushing and shoving and fights erupting with people outside the turnstiles.

Says 1 in 5 fans were ticketless.  Mentions the thugs as well, and how they tried to take advantage of the situation - that they came from outside of Saint-Denis.

Asked by the Senate Committee President whether they had surveillance cameras around the stadium, he said they did, and they can keep the footage on servers for 30 days; the footage has been handed over to whom it may concern.

Answering another question, he mentions they were trying to get ready for Hooliganism in Paris, but none took place, instead it was the supporters who suffered at the hands of the thugs.  But goes back to fake tickets as being the main issue.

Edit:  Now he's saying ticketless fans were not thugs, they were well-intentioned, but added to the large volume of people present and that they were not ready for this.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:11:17 am by bloke »

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1660 on: June 21, 2022, 06:34:42 pm »
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/liverpool-fans-praised-by-french-senate-as-reds-supporters-demand-apology-over-stade-de-france-fiasco-16868182/




Liverpool fans praised by French senate as Reds supporters demand apology over Stade de France fiasco




Daniel Austin
Tuesday 21 Jun 2022 5:50 pm


Liverpool fans have been praised in the French senate after giving their testimonies to the official inquiry into the chaos at the Stade de France ahead of the UEFA Champions League final on 28 May.

Reds fans Ted Morris and Joe Blott, representing the Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association and Spirit of Shankly fans’ union respectively, gave harrowing accounts of chaos ahead of the Liverpool vs Real Madrid fixture which were described as ‘apocalyptic’ by French senator and former sports minister Patrick Kanner.

Chairman of the inquiry Francois-Noel Buffet made clear before the fans’ hearing began on Wednesday afternoon that ‘we know that English football fans were not the cause of what happened’, after French interior minister Gérald Darmanin, chief of Paris police Didier Lallement and UEFA events CEO Martin Kanner had tried to shift blame to fans for the fiasco in previous senate hearings.

Liverpool fans including women and children who arrived early for the match were tear gassed by French riot police, forced into dangerous crushes outside locked turnstiles and were denied entry to the stadium despite showing valid tickets.

Morris and Blott, along with Ronan Evain and Pierre Bathélemy from the democratic European supporters organisation Football Supporters Europe, spent 90 minutes giving a chronology of what happened at the Stade de France and taking politicians to task over mistruths which had been spread since the final.

Authority figures including Darmanin and sports minister Amélie Oudéa-Castéra have blamed up to 30-40,000 tickets Liverpool fans trying to enter the stadium for the injuries suffered by supporters. The figures have since been completely discredited and no politician, police representative or UEFA official has presented a scrap of audio-visual evidence backing up their version of events.

‘I don’t ever want to come back to Paris if we are going to be treated in the same way again in future,’ Morris explained. ‘There have been so many lies about what happened from those in power here.

‘I started to receive messages saying disabled people were being tear gassed and were terrified. Some feared for their lives. It was only thanks to the great behaviour of Liverpool fans that a catastrophe was avoided. Nobody in a position of power came to help disabled fans.’

Morris went on to give examples of specific traumas suffered by disabled Liverpool fans.

‘A 14-year-old disabled fan has burns from the effects of tear gas,’ Morris said. ‘He went to the match with his Dad and was excited, but was left terrified. There was a disabled fan who attended the match with his elderly father. He was attacked by a gang of locals and had his belongings stolen.’

‘Shocking treatment was done to men, women and children with disabilities. They were treated like animals. This a shame on the authorities. Gérald Darmanin has brought shame on France and the French government. His lies made things so much worse. He should apologise or resign. His lies have reminded us of those after Hillsborough. He should be ashamed.’

For Blott, the police used dangerous prejudices to plan their strategy for the event.

‘Liverpool fans had travelled across Europe this season, to Spain, Portugal and Italy with zero arrests, zero known risk supporters, zero preventive arrests and zero ejections from stadia,’ he explained. ‘Over 25,000 fans showed exemplary behaviour all season long. Why was the good behaviour record of Liverpool fans ignored? The police were stuck in the 1980s and believed lies about the Hillsborough disaster.’

‘The hooligans that French police spent months preparing for from Liverpool simply do not exist. They did not alter their tactics when no hooligans arrived, and instead treated families, children, and people with disabilities like criminals.’

Blott concluded his testimony by calling for the truth to be proven by the French senate, and for those have lied about events at the Stade de France to face consequences.

‘We demand a full apology and a retraction of the lies,’ he said.

Thanking the Liverpool supporters for having taken the time to travel to Paris to make their testimony in person, chairman Buffet made enlightening comments.

‘Thank you very much to Joe Blott and Ted Morris for coming hear to speak before the senate,’ the senator said. ‘Your testimony is extremely important to us. What happened to you is unacceptable.’

The senate investigation will continue, with its end date unknown, but the empathy and gratitude shown towards fans will reinvigorate those in Liverpool and around the world who have been shocked and appalled by the French authorities’ attempts to shift blame.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1661 on: June 21, 2022, 07:34:16 pm »
Henry Winter
@henrywinter
"The senators now discussing the possibility to launch a parliamentary investigation. In France, people who've been robbed can press charges, they can file a complaint against the police, but there'll never be  collective justice. So a (full) investigation is important." Evain.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1662 on: June 21, 2022, 07:46:36 pm »
Wonderful effort today. Thanks to all who’ve made such an effort!
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1663 on: June 21, 2022, 07:48:11 pm »
If our police had treated French fans the way they screwed up in the CL final then the UK would be vilified. The French government and UEFA have dug too big a hole to dig themselves out of.
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Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1664 on: June 21, 2022, 07:57:14 pm »
It's being reported by AFP and is in Le Figaro and Liberation newspapers amongst others...

https://twitter.com/Le_Figaro/status/1539293042494132232

https://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-sport/chaos-du-stade-de-france-au-senat-les-supporters-de-liverpool-appellent-darmanin-a-demissionner-20220621




Stade de France fiasco: In the Senate, Liverpool supporters call on Darmanin to resign


By Le Figaro with AFP


Heard by the Senate on Tuesday in Paris, Liverpool fans demanded the departure of the Minister of the Interior.

The case is not over. Far from there. Liverpool supporters heard in the Senate on the security fiasco of the Champions League final called on Tuesday Gérald Darmanin to resign, castigating the " endless lies " of the Minister of the Interior, who had initially pointed the finger at the responsibility of the English fans.

“ You, Sir, have humiliated the inhabitants of Paris. Your endless lies and false stories have only amplified our trauma , ”said Ted Morris, representative of the Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association, present at the Stade de France on the day of this final disrupted by serious malfunctions. in the organization.
" I ask you to withdraw your savage and baseless accusations and, if you do not have the decency to do so, you must choose the most honorable solution and resign ", he launched in front of the senatorial delegation which board on these incidents.

In the hours following the meeting, Gérald Darmanin had castigated the English supporters, presenting the thesis of a " massive, industrial and organized fraud of counterfeit tickets " creating disorder. Then, during his hearing before the Senate on June 1, the Minister of the Interior had sketched out a mea culpa while maintaining the controversial figure of " 35,000 supporters " provided, according to him, with falsified tickets or without tickets.

Before the senators on Tuesday afternoon, Ted Morris read the testimonies of several disabled supporters " traumatized " by these incidents, victims of robberies or attacks by local gangs in Saint-Denis or sprayed with tear gas by the forces of the 'order. " It's the most terrifying experience I've ever had in Europe with Liverpool ," he said. “ I will never forgive the authorities who are totally responsible ,” he continued, recalling the trauma experienced in 1989 by Liverpool in Hillsborough, where a gigantic crowd movement had caused the death of 97 supporters.

Member of the " Spirit of Shankly " supporters group , Joe Blott also asked the French authorities to " withdraw " their accusations and present " a full apology ", pointing to France's damaged reputation as a host country of major sporting events. . “ To ensure the safety of supporters at the Rugby World Cup (in 2023, editor’s note) and at the Olympic Games (2024) in the coming years, a full, independent and transparent investigation is needed so that the world regains confidence in the ability of France to organize planetary sporting events ”, he asserted.








L'Equipe too : https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Incidents-au-stade-de-france-les-supporters-de-liverpool-ne-pardonneront-jamais/1339709


Incidents at the Stade de France: Liverpool supporters "will never forgive"


Representatives of supporters, mostly English, gave important and chilling testimony, during their hearing this Tuesday afternoon by the Senate, on the fiasco of the organization of the Champions League final between Liverpool and Real Madrid, at the Stade de France at the end of May.
S.Bo.
updated on June 21, 2022 at 5:59 p.m.



We don't know if it was the presence of the fan representatives in front of him that made him say that. But from the start of the debates, François-Noël Buffet, president of the Senate law commission, decided in one sentence: "Let's say things clearly and clearly, because things are now obvious: English supporters have not been the cause of the incidents. The message is unequivocal and undermines the version of the government, authorities and authorities.

This Tuesday afternoon, it was the turn of the supporters to be auditioned at the Luxembourg Palace, three weeks after the launch of the investigations. And you have to believe that, as the saying goes, the best came in the end. For an hour and a half, the “first victims” of the Saint-Denis fiasco delivered “damning” testimonies , to quote several senators present.

The resignation of Gérald Darmanin demanded, the maintenance of the 2024 Olympics in Paris questioned
The speech, in particular, by Ted Morris, chairman of the Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association, was very powerful. Poignant, even. "Since May 28 (date of the Champions League final), my vision of Paris has not been the same, " he said. It's the worst experience, the greatest scenes of distress seen in my entire life. I don't want to come here again until things change. He then illustrated his remarks by quoting the story of many affected members: disabled people crushed against the railings, children and women in wheelchairs gassed, an individual pushed to the ground and gasping for air, an autistic boy separated from his father...

9,000

A total of 9,000 complaints are said to have been passed on by supporters to the Liverpool club. A report will be issued once they have all been compiled.
“Fans were calling us to complain and denounce the chaos. They were scared. And nobody helped us. Everyone remains traumatized, insisted Morris. What was supposed to be a fantastic family trip to Paris turned into a horrifying experience. The treatment given was shocking. We were treated like animals. This must be a disgrace to the authorities. We felt completely abandoned. It was truly terrifying and the authorities will never be forgiven for what they did. They must accept the responsibility that is theirs, otherwise the Olympics cannot take place in Paris (in 2024) . »

According to this group leader, Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin is the “shame of the government” . “He lied and that added to our pain and trauma. Withdraw your baseless accusations and have the decency to resign, he called. Thirty-three years ago, the authorities lied about the Hillsborough tragedy. His speech reminded us of that. But you have to have the courage to tell the truth, even to the most powerful. Until it is revealed in broad daylight, we will not be respected. »

“We were treated as we are treated all year round, which is to say as a threat. This explains the failures of the safety device. It is urgent to get out of it, to learn from our European neighbors and to bring ourselves up to date. »

Ronan Evain, Managing Director of Football Supporters Europe
In the process, Joe Blott, president of the Spirit of Shankly Federation, who had also made the trip to the United Kingdom especially to be heard, gave a layer. "We are here to see justice done, " he said. The police force stuck to the 1980s thinking that Liverpool supporters were all hooligans. These are hurtful and false prejudices, to hide their own failure. To hear the French authorities repeating the same kinds of lies as during the Hillsborough disaster caused the fans tremendous heartache and pain. It's a heartbreaker. Why put the responsibility on the supporters as a first instinct, when their heroic behavior succeeded in saving lives? »

Emilio Dumas, Franco-Spanish and Real Madrid socio for thirty years, also shared this rejection of the charges. “On the night of the match, we were very worried rather than happy about the victory. Three weeks later, I still have a lot more bad memories than good ones. Nobody was quiet to leave the stadium. I have never seen such an inactive attitude of the police towards the help requested. I was really scared. These stories shame the image of France, ” he confided, in video.

In addition and in summary, Ronan Evain, Managing Director of Football Supporters Europe, concluded: “The supporters have been victims of three things: old representations, an archaic mobility plan and a poor French approach to supporters. We were treated the way we are treated all year round, which is to say as a threat. This explains the failures of the safety device. It is urgent to get out of it, to learn from our European neighbors and to bring ourselves up to date. »






RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1665 on: June 22, 2022, 08:45:22 am »
https://theathletic.com/3371099/2022/06/22/uefa-champions-league-final-paris/?source=emp_shared_article



When will UEFA start to accept blame for Champions League final chaos?





By Simon Hughes



Frequently over the last three weeks, my thoughts have taken me to a crossroads in an estate in the south of Saint-Denis.

There is a crusty old sign that says “Stade” pointing me left with thousands of other people. The road ahead is clear but nothing at all is sending anyone that way.

So, I follow the crowd and end up in a huge queue, which develops into a crushing situation and leads to more decisions that endanger lives closer to the venue I am trying to reach a few hours later.

By the end of the night, the security operation at club football’s most-watched fixture has collapsed completely and I am running back in the direction of Paris hoping I get home safely because local gangs are proceeding with impunity due to a lack of police protection.

The Champions League final of 2022 could have been remembered differently had organisation been in place on the tarmac of this otherwise insignificant-looking part of the Parisian suburb, which is now infamous across Europe as it has been for a long time in France.

Had there been a reaction by the authorities to a train strike, which ruled out arriving at the Stade de France via the La Plaine metro station at any point before 5.30pm, then one of the busiest routes to the arena would have been accessible.

All they needed to do was tell supporters where they needed to go, leading them towards La Plaine. Some stewards, some signs, a funnelling system — whatever. Just show them there was another way to get to gates X and Y, as well as other points at the eastern side of the stadium.

Yet a recommendation that two lanes of pre-filtering in this area be implemented following a meeting between organisers on May 25, three days before the final, was not followed.

This resulted in pressure at another checkpoint failing and with that, the problem moved to the stadium’s gates. From there, locals pushed their way to the front and the police, expecting football hooligans, reacted as expected by sending tear gas into the foul, airless atmosphere.

Yesterday, when UEFA had the opportunity to explain what had contributed towards the near-disaster in front of the senate in Paris, the organisation’s CEO of events Martin Kallen breezed over this significant feature of May 28 before he was reminded by a congressman that his preferred reasoning of counterfeit tickets was “not the main problem”.

There was instead, according to the congressman, “the transport strike, the flow management problems, the interventions of the police, the problems of delinquency”.

“Speaking only of forgeries,” as Kallen had done without providing evidence, was, put simply, “not right”.

It had been difficult to tell whether some of Kallen’s comments were born out of institutional incompetence or genuine attempts at subterfuge.

He claimed, “the fact that most of the fans arrived by RER D surprised everyone,” when, in fact, it should have surprised no one because the train strike on RER B leading to La Plaine had not only been well-publicised but it was discussed in the aforementioned planning meeting, for which any responsible organisation should surely have a record.

Perhaps that went the same way as the CCTV footage outside the Stade de France, which was somehow deleted before the French public were able to see it and form a better idea of exactly what happened and who might be answerable for the problems that got worse and worse as the night progressed.

Later, the chairman of the senate Francois-Noel Buffet invited supporters of Liverpool and Real Madrid to speak about their experiences by stating, “Let’s be clear before we start. We know that English football fans were not the cause of what happened at the Stade de France.”

Yet with UEFA barely detailing the impact of arrangements in its own public testimony, European football’s governing body was asked by The Athletic on Tuesday to respond to the following questions relating to the hugely significant factors that did not feature in Kallen’s reasoning.

Why was there a complete lack of updated signage between RER D station and the stadium?
To what extent does UEFA think this oversight contributed towards overcrowding at the first checkpoint?
Why did the route to the stadium differ from the one fans were instructed to follow on UEFA’s app?
Why was the recommendation to split fans into two separate pre-filter queues not taken up?
Why did the authorities not try at any point to communicate with fans about the problems at the pre-filtering point at the gates?
Why did UEFA suggest the kick-off delay was down to fans arriving at the stadium late?
It was also suggested that the organisation does not seem to be willing to acknowledge its most basic errors in spite of seemingly overwhelming evidence.
On this basis, can anyone really trust UEFA to secure the safety of anyone attending a big football match and to reflect on and learn from any mistakes if things go awry?

To all of that, a spokesperson replied: “UEFA will not be commenting further on the topic until the Independent Review has been concluded.”

Given the gaps in Kallen’s public account are so enormous and so obvious, the credibility of a review being led by someone they appointed is not a good look. How likely is it that that person will be able to get answers to all of this, when the senate could not?
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1666 on: June 22, 2022, 10:31:33 am »
It's very interesting reading Kallen's disgraceful testimony yesterday in the light of the ongoing US Senate hearings into the attempted January 6th coup. Trump's refusal to believe that he'd lost the presidential vote and his criminal insistence that there were hundreds of thousands of uncounted Republican votes or tens of thousands of dead people who'd voted for Biden is on the level with Kallen's (and UEFA's) insistence that there were thousands of people outside the stadium with forged tickets.  No amount of evidence seems capable of shaking these morons from their dumb positions.

The idea that UEFA will now investigate itself is very worrying. It would be like Trump presiding over the 6th January hearings in America.
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Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1667 on: June 23, 2022, 04:39:56 pm »
Great submissions to the French Senate by Ted, Joe and the other supporter reps, the other day......well done to all (and fair do's to the senators who responded supportively).

I've been concerned from the off about Uefa conducting their own 'independent' investigation, it is a worry for sure - we shouldn't have anything to do with it unless it is truly independent. After Kallen's comments, if they go ahead as planned, then we should instead produce our own alternative report based on the reality of 9000 plus supporter submissions, press and media reports etc. (even though most of it is out there anyway)

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1668 on: June 28, 2022, 11:49:46 am »
Quote
Chaos at the Stade de France: Darmanin recognizes his "share of responsibility"
The Home Secretary again apologized to Liverpool and Real Madrid supporters after the failures of May 28, admitting his wrongdoing for the first time. He remained very vague on the future of Didier Lallement at the head of the Prefecture.

"I apologize very willingly (to) all those who have suffered this mismanagement," said Gérald Darmanin Tuesday morning on RTL towards the supporters. Without ever mentioning the poor management of the flow of supporters from the RER and metro stations to the surroundings of the stadium. "If there is something that went wrong at the Stade de France, it is the fight against delinquency", he preferred to insist.

“Could the Stade de France have been better managed? The answer is yes. Do I have some responsibility? The answer is yes." It took a month for Gérald Darmanin to finally admit having failed in the security fiasco of the Champions League final. The Minister of the Interior took advantage of his appearance on RTL on Tuesday morning to reiterate his apologies to Liverpool supporters, sprayed with tear gas by the police or attacked and robbed - just like Real Madrid supporters - at the end of the game on May 28. He had initially accused the fans of the "Reds" who came "without a ticket or with fake tickets" of being the cause of the delay in kicking off the final.

“I apologize very willingly (to) all those who suffered this mismanagement ,” said Gérald Darmanin to the supporters. It is a mea culpa on the face of it, however, since when he goes into detail about what did not work that evening of May 28, the Minister of the Interior does not mention the poor management of the flow of supporters from the RER and metro stations to the area around the stadium. "If there is something that went wrong at the Stade de France, it is the fight against delinquency" , he preferred to insist.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."


Offline meady1981

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1670 on: June 28, 2022, 02:39:13 pm »
He hasn't apologised to Liverpool fans.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1671 on: June 28, 2022, 02:56:57 pm »
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/28/french-interior-minister-apologises-to-liverpool-fans-in-climbdown-over-champions-league-final-fiasco-16903457/

Quote
The phrasing which Darmanin used to apologise has no direct translation into English, but is used as a way to present apologies without accepting responsibility.

 ::)
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1672 on: June 28, 2022, 04:58:35 pm »
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/28/french-interior-minister-apologises-to-liverpool-fans-in-climbdown-over-champions-league-final-fiasco-16903457/
Not good enough, only a full apology and a retraction of his words will do, the damage has already been done and his non-apology is a month late.

Well done to all those who spoke so clearly, looks like their words have go through to the senate.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1673 on: June 28, 2022, 05:10:23 pm »
"I'm sorry you're sorry."


Apologising without apologising. Everton would be impressed.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1674 on: June 28, 2022, 05:41:32 pm »
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/28/french-interior-minister-apologises-to-liverpool-fans-in-climbdown-over-champions-league-final-fiasco-16903457/

Sometimes when I feel angry over domestic politics, it provides a strange sort of comfort to know that we do not have a uniquely insidious collective. There are these cowardly contemptible swine all across the globe.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1675 on: June 28, 2022, 05:42:36 pm »
How is that Paris police chief still in a job? I thought he'd be sacrificed as soon as their lies came out on the national stage.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1676 on: June 29, 2022, 12:27:21 pm »
I was watching the programme last night about the Alps murders in 2012 and it reminded me of this in the way that the French police were so arrogant and just would not admit any fault, mistakes or admission of any kind. They also clearly protected the French national victim over the British ones in terms of blame.

Apologies, off topic really but as I was watching it brought our recent experiences to mind. Things haven't changed much.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1677 on: June 29, 2022, 12:50:08 pm »
I was watching the programme last night about the Alps murders in 2012 and it reminded me of this in the way that the French police were so arrogant and just would not admit any fault, mistakes or admission of any kind. They also clearly protected the French national victim over the British ones in terms of blame.

Apologies, off topic really but as I was watching it brought our recent experiences to mind. Things haven't changed much.

There was a Guardian piece early on cataloguing a range of incidents like this in France over the last 10 years. Brazen violence, thuggery and arrogance from the government and police. The public have no chance. If people think heads will roll over the Final, or there’ll be some unequivocal apology, they can think again. We live in an age of zero accountability at the top. Just doing enough to stay within the flimsy realms of the law and sweep it under the carpet and sedate the masses. On to the next one. We’re no different here.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 12:52:04 pm by meady1981 »

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1678 on: June 29, 2022, 12:56:29 pm »
I was watching the programme last night about the Alps murders in 2012 and it reminded me of this in the way that the French police were so arrogant and just would not admit any fault, mistakes or admission of any kind. They also clearly protected the French national victim over the British ones in terms of blame.

Apologies, off topic really but as I was watching it brought our recent experiences to mind. Things haven't changed much.

I thought exactly the same. Jump to judgement, and even when wrong double down on it

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1679 on: June 29, 2022, 01:45:17 pm »
Sometimes when I feel angry over domestic politics, it provides a strange sort of comfort to know that we do not have a uniquely insidious collective. There are these cowardly contemptible swine all across the globe.

Nicely put.