Author Topic: Age profile of the team  (Read 13108 times)

Offline DonkeyWan

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Age profile of the team
« on: March 5, 2021, 01:19:19 pm »
As Liverpool go from bad to worse on a weekly basis, various reasons are offered (injuries, confidence, loss of belief, heads turned etc.) The one thing that all those arguments have in common is that they are rectifiable, i.e. with the same team, rest and recovery, Liverpool will be back, stronger than ever, next season. However, there is a line of argument, I would like to discuss here, that suggests that the team has, actually, passed its peak and what is required is a renewal of the squad, i.e. it is time on the legs that has done the damage this season. As many are aware, Klopp's style of pressing is physically demanding and, eventhough I believe it has been reduced somewhat from it's earliest incarnation at Liverpool, it is still wearing for the players. Perhaps what is not fully appreciated is that there is a significant core of players at Liverpool who are not just, arguably, passing their peak, but have also played a lot of games in Klopps high tempo system:

VDV - Turns 30 in July, is coming back from a year long injury, has played 95 times for Klopp
Firmino - Turns 30 in October, has played 274 times for Klopp
Matip - Turns 30 in August, has played 123 times for Klopp
Wijnaldum - Turns 31 in November, has played 182 times for Klopp
Henderson - Turns 31 in June, has played 198 times for Klopp
Shaquiri - Turns 30 in October, has played 58 times for Klopp
Milner - just turned 35 in January, has played 231 times for Klopp

That is 7 players that are not just pushing or past 30, but have an enormous amount of games under their belt for Liverpool in a relatively short space of time. Firmino, in particular, has clocked up, on average, 48 games a season at Liverpool since has joined. It's incredible when you look at it how much he has given to the team. In the same vein,

Mane - turns 29 in April, has played 203 times for Klopp, averaging 40 games a season
Salah - Turns 29 in June, has played 189 times for Klopp, averaging 47 games a season

I haven't even mentioned Adrian at 35, simply because I view keepers as somewhat different to outfield players. The point I am  making though is that a hugely important core of players in key positions with huge mileage in their legs are ending a somewhat awful season in poor form and with Euro finals on the horizon as well. Quite simply, I would argue, we may have gone to the well too many times. Depending on the same players to get back to their peak is not only grossly unrealistic, but, I would argue, grossly unfair. The likes of Firmino, Wijnaldum, Henderson etc. should be, naturally, seeing less playing time and be being brought on for impact purposes. That has been the role Milner has occupied for a long time at Liverpool and great service was had as a result. But instead the players mentioned are first on the team sheet, with almost nothing on the bench ready to replace them. That brings its own pressures to bear and, possibly, helps explain the loss of form.

In some ways I believe this season is a blessing in disguise, though that may be hard to believe. What is has served to do is highlight all the weaknesses of the squad that need rectifying; aging, fatigued players, a significant drop off in quality to the reserves, lack of cover for injuries and the role of confidence in overcoming adversity. Had Liverpool had a normal season, what might have occurred was drop in levels, City sweeping to the title and Liverpool 2nd, but by a distance. The problems would have remained and the team would have started next season without the necessary renewal.

What this season has (cruelly) exposed, is the need for renewal, to remove deadwood from the squad, to improve the second string and bring in players that will challenge the first team and inject energy and dynamism. That was started with Jota, but it is a long way from where it needs to be. Of the players brought in from last summer, only Jota fufils the requirements I have outlined aboved. This summer is crucial, it cannot be another summer of 1 big buy, 2-3 lucky dips. Those are half measures and will not meet the needs of the manager.

« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 05:39:18 pm by DonkeyWan »
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #1 on: March 5, 2021, 01:22:29 pm »
I don't have an issue with older CB's, it's the peak of their ability, they can sustain that quality if they steer clear of injuries consistently. Matip unfortunately cannot, but I don't see him leaving or Klopp wanting him to leave.

I feel that Gini will move on probably, Milner, Shaq as well. Which leaves a handful of players, who imo can still produce. Or should be given a chance to do so next year for us to see whether or not this is just one season of bad luck or them actually declining. I'm convinced that Salah and Mane have plenty of years in them, Salah in particular, most top attackers are in their 30s today performing at a high level. Firmino I am only worried about.


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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #2 on: March 5, 2021, 01:32:18 pm »
In some ways I believe this season is a blaessing in disguise, though that may be hard to believe. What is has served to do is highlight all the weaknesses of the squad that need rectifying; aging, fatigued players, a significant drop off in quality to the reserves, lack of cover for injuries and the role of confidence in overcoming adversity. Had Liverpool had a normal season, what might have occurred was drop in levels, City sweeping to the title and Liverpool 2nd, but by a distance. The problems would have remained and the team would have started next season without the necessary renewal.

What this season has (cruelly) exposed, is the need for renewal, to remove deadwood from the squad, to improve the second string and bring in players that will challenge the first team and inject ewergy and dynamism. That was started with Jota, but it is a long way from where it needs to be. Of the players brought in from last summer, only Jota fufils the requirements I have outlined aboved. This summer is crucial, it cannot be another summer of 1 big buy, 2-3 lucky dips. Those are half measures and will not meet the needs of the manager.

A lot of comparisons to 1991. We'd just won the title. Started 90/91 well, were clear at the top at Christmas (number 19 looked a formality) and then fell off a cliff. Kenny was struggling and the team had got old and stale.

Kenny left and Souness came in and made a big mess of the rebuild. It's a big summer for us.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #3 on: March 5, 2021, 01:33:31 pm »
In regards to top attackers the best ones about are in the 27-31 age range.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #4 on: March 5, 2021, 01:35:25 pm »
A lot of comparisons to 1991. We'd just won the title. Started 90/91 well, were clear at the top at Christmas (number 19 looked a formality) and then fell off a cliff. Kenny was struggling and the team had got old and stale.

Kenny left and Souness came in and made a big mess of the rebuild. It's a big summer for us.
I think that point is crucial, changing the manager would be insanity, the team is at the end of a natural cycle and what is needed is change in playing staff to start a new cycle. People ask how ferguson was able to manage for so long and create so many new teams, the answer lies with the ownership backing him to make those transitions.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #5 on: March 5, 2021, 01:38:53 pm »
In regards to top attackers the best ones about are in the 27-31 age range.

There are plenty of them past 31 who are playing at a high level still.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #6 on: March 5, 2021, 01:39:12 pm »
I don't have an issue with older CB's, it's the peak of their ability, they can sustain that quality if they steer clear of injuries consistently. Matip unfortunately cannot, but I don't see him leaving or Klopp wanting him to leave.

I feel that Gini will move on probably, Milner, Shaq as well. Which leaves a handful of players, who imo can still produce. Or should be given a chance to do so next year for us to see whether or not this is just one season of bad luck or them actually declining. I'm convinced that Salah and Mane have plenty of years in them, Salah in particular, most top attackers are in their 30s today performing at a high level. Firmino I am only worried about.


Firmino has done so much work for the club, I was amazed at the sheer number of games he has played. Ditto henderson and to a lesser extent Wijnaldum. I agree the CBs will probably not see much change, but I think the midfield and the front three need an overhaul, if only to give the tired legs less to do. But age, age is the challenge for this squad, if not this season, the next. It reminds me of Everton under Moyes, a core of older players performing at a high level, only to all collapse together and drag the team down to the bottom tier of the table.
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #7 on: March 5, 2021, 01:40:21 pm »
There are plenty of them past 31 who are playing at a high level still.
Yes, but it's also how they are playing. Liverpool's front three are expected to work back, close, press and score goals with clever runs. It's  bit different to, say, Vardy, waiting on the last defender to sprint through and score a goal.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #8 on: March 5, 2021, 01:43:03 pm »
I think that point is crucial, changing the manager would be insanity, the team is at the end of a natural cycle and what is needed is change in playing staff to start a new cycle. People ask how ferguson was able to manage for so long and create so many new teams, the answer lies with the ownership backing him to make those transitions.

I was saying in 2019 we'd come to regret not signing anyone, but because we had a near perfect year of results in 2019 it went largely unnoticed. 2020 was a drop off. 2021 we're basically relegation form. You've got to have that renewal and it's easier to do from a position of strength, but the owners were asleep at the wheel, thinking we were well set for 5 years and renewing a few contracts had us sorted. Football doesn't work like that.

As a further comparison to 1991, what Kenny needed when he left was a break, he had that and then turned up at Blackburn. Perhaps Klopp should have been on compassionate leave in recent weeks, for his own well being, rather than worrying about trying to turn around a losing team.



« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 01:48:05 pm by Fromola »
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #9 on: March 5, 2021, 01:52:40 pm »
There are plenty of them past 31 who are playing at a high level still.

Few teams rely on pretty much all their attack being in that age bracket. That said the key isnt who is doing it the question is can ours. Bobby cant and Mane is struggling.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #10 on: March 5, 2021, 01:55:13 pm »
I was saying in 2019 we'd come to regret not signing anyone, but because we had a near perfect year of results in 2019 it went largely unnoticed. 2020 was a drop off. 2021 we're basically relegation form. You've got to have that renewal and it's easier to do from a position of strength, but the owners were asleep at the wheel, thinking we were well set for 5 years and renewing a few contracts had us sorted. Football doesn't work like that.

As a further comparison to 1991, what Kenny needed when he left was a break, he had that and then turned up at Blackburn. Perhaps Klopp should have been on compassionate leave in recent weeks, for his own well being, rather than worrying about trying to turn around a losing team.




I agree, rather than listening the chattering masses cooing over Liverpool's fall from grace, the actual best use for the remainder of this awful season is to give the second string as many chances as possible to get minutes and prove they have a role to play at Liverpool. Jones, as an example, has been a major winner this year, going from a  handful of minutes to regular appearances for the team. I still can't believe mini-mo went out on loan, but the likes of Kelleher, even Keita, need as many minutes as possible this season.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #11 on: March 5, 2021, 02:02:49 pm »
There are plenty of them past 31 who are playing at a high level still.
All for the same team, in the Premier League? It's the same issue as at Barcelona, a team can have two or three players above 30 but any more and they become too static. That's a big issue with the team right now, almost no off-the-ball running. It's one reason why so many passes are going astray. Players either aren't making the runs to receive the ball or they're standing still and giving the opposition time to press.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #12 on: March 5, 2021, 02:10:25 pm »
All for the same team, in the Premier League? It's the same issue as at Barcelona, a team can have two or three players above 30 but any more and they become too static. That's a big issue with the team right now, almost no off-the-ball running. It's one reason why so many passes are going astray. Players either aren't making the runs to receive the ball or they're standing still and giving the opposition time to press.

The age profile is important, but the other factor is miles on the clock. The front three have been run into the ground over the last 4 years for club and country. It catches up with you. City are a bit more resistant to it because they rotate every week because they've had the strongest squad. We're asking the same players to go to bat every 3 or 4 days month after month, year after year. They've nothing left in the tank, especially when you throw in the international commitments.

The squad Guardiola inherited was old. All their full backs were over 30 (Kolarov, Clichy, Zabaleta, Sagna) and the likes of Yaya Toure, Kompany, Fernandinho and Silva. He couldn't play the way he wanted in his first year and they were well off the pace. Difference was, he could throw 300 million a year on players to revive them and let those players go for nothing because he didn't need to generate his own funds.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #13 on: March 5, 2021, 02:14:20 pm »
All for the same team, in the Premier League? It's the same issue as at Barcelona, a team can have two or three players above 30 but any more and they become too static. That's a big issue with the team right now, almost no off-the-ball running. It's one reason why so many passes are going astray. Players either aren't making the runs to receive the ball or they're standing still and giving the opposition time to press.

Fair enough. However Barca have players in that age bracket all over the place. If we go by the assumption that some of the mentioned players are leaving, to me it's not that big of an issue. Now I do agree that we need another refreshment if you will in the attacking third, even with Jotta.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #14 on: March 5, 2021, 02:19:12 pm »
It's definitely a concern, hopefully we aren't too nice in the coming years as it's obviously going to be extremely tough getting rid of players who have contributed so much. We've handled the Wijnaldum contract situation well and not just bent over and give him the massive new deal he wants which is encouraging.

Gonna be tough starting this process on a europa league budget during a time when income is already savaged though!

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #15 on: March 5, 2021, 02:57:53 pm »
It's definitely a concern, hopefully we aren't too nice in the coming years as it's obviously going to be extremely tough getting rid of players who have contributed so much. We've handled the Wijnaldum contract situation well and not just bent over and give him the massive new deal he wants which is encouraging.

Gonna be tough starting this process on a europa league budget during a time when income is already savaged though!
Apparently FSG are selling a chunk of the business in the next few weeks, which might help generate income (I mean they are a bit tight sometimes, but they are smart as well, so who knows).
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #16 on: March 5, 2021, 02:58:57 pm »
Apparently FSG are selling a chunk of the business in the next few weeks, which might help generate income (I mean they are a bit tight sometimes, but they are smart as well, so who knows).

Very unlikely that would make its way to team investment.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #17 on: March 5, 2021, 03:04:49 pm »
Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to the age profile of the team, but in the context of the last two months, it has become much, much more important.

We know the team is suffering from all the injuries, being gassed (mentally and physically) and are struggling to lift themselves in the absence of our crowd. This is true and irrefutable.

However, the current thinking by all the optimistic folk is that after the summer all these things are back in place the team will burst back into life. The way we have capitulated even after morale-boosting wins makes me heavily doubt this.

With the age and experience of the team, the players should've been able to recover from a downturn and climb out of it. The fact we've slipped back in and carried on losing at home is alarming.

In boxing, a fighter can only take so many punches in their career - and many of these players have taken many blows over the years and only finally achieved big things. Do they have the hunger to do it all again? The mentality of winning every game? Can they do it physically?

I sincerely hope that Jurgen is not being serious when he says doesn't need to rebuild because we do, and it has to start this summer. I think 5-6 players in the squad are done here including a couple of 1st teamers. Jurgen needs to spend the next 3 months working out who they are (though he probably already knows).

We also shouldn't be taken in by a long CL run - the 05 heroes were still replaced by better players.

Jurgen has to be given the support to do this - not to go and spend £200m but to spend the kind of sums we did in 2016 and 2017. FSG have to realise that if you constrain spending too much, you can be faced with even costs when the team fades away and revenue slides.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #18 on: March 5, 2021, 04:14:56 pm »
Yep.

A lot always needed to 'go right' for us to remain competitive with the financial superpowers, let alone dominate them. A one-off bad season with everything going wrong doesn't necessarily change that - but it's a wasted year* for the squad, of which several members don't have too many years to waste.

It's always difficult to discuss this on here for some reason, as though you're arguing that anyone over the age of 28 is about to keel over. But large parts of the squad reaching that point together is going to be difficult. I've quoted it on RAWK before (search function isn't working), but one of my favourite pearls of Paisley wisdom is the idea that the bulk of the team should be 23-27, a youngster or two and no more than one or two approaching or over 30. (This without considering additional physical demands of something like Klopp's system). Looking back - at the most successful teams, at least - only a few of the very best players stayed at Liverpool deep into their 30s, let alone to the conclusion of their career. As we've been sadly reminded in recent days, even greats like St John were eased out by 31/32, and out of the club by 33.

If our current squad was all in place, no fewer than 10 players would be 30 (or over) before or during next season, another within a month of it ending, another within two months of the following starting. Most of them clear first teamers. Another three or four (mostly squad players) are edging into that 28-30 bracket; Ox, for example - long past being a promising young player. Even Origi is edging into the second half of his twenties, most of Keita's athletic peak has been spent in the treatment room, while Minamino's is now at the other end of the country. Quite suddenly (but not altogether suddenly), our older players are still key - and a year older - while our mid-twenties players have largely failed to establish themselves for one reason or another and the youngsters beyond Trent and Jones are very young and yet to prove themselves.

When Klopp said he didn't see the need for a 'rebuild' this summer, he was hardly going to say "wow, this team's getting old!" - and it doesn't all have to be done this summer. But there's certainly a significant refresh/rebuild job to be done over the next 2-3 years. We're not far off the stage and profile of the side Dalglish left to Souness. And as we're not City/Chelsea/United, at least a few will need to be sold at value to reinvest, if we're to avoid a similar situation.


*Which might yet bring number 7, of course.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #19 on: March 5, 2021, 05:10:42 pm »
When Klopp said he didn't see the need for a 'rebuild' this summer, he was hardly going to say "wow, this team's getting old!" - and it doesn't all have to be done this summer. But there's certainly a significant refresh/rebuild job to be done over the next 2-3 years.
At minimum we are going to need 2 top players who can challenge for a 1st team spot straight away similar to last summer when Jota and Thiago came in. If the players you buy are good enough to make an impact quickly they will raise the level of the rest.

The Bobby problem needs to be resolved, we have to either find a younger version of him, or change the way we play so we can play without him if need be. Obviously Jota being injured did not allow us the chance to test this for long enough this season but this may change in the coming months.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #20 on: March 5, 2021, 05:23:55 pm »
At minimum we are going to need 2 top players who can challenge for a 1st team spot straight away similar to last summer when Jota and Thiago came in. If the players you buy are good enough to make an impact quickly they will raise the level of the rest.

The Bobby problem needs to be resolved, we have to either find a younger version of him, or change the way we play so we can play without him if need be. Obviously Jota being injured did not allow us the chance to test this for long enough this season but this may change in the coming months.
I kind of (mildly) disagree on both these points - the second I did a longish post on the Firmino thread a week or so ago that didn't survive the server meltdown...

Firstly, yes we do - if the priority is to compete at the highest level next season. But I'm not sure it is. If we go out and buy a couple of the best starters we can afford and they're 27/28, we're just compounding this broader issue; at best deferring it by a year or two. On the pretty safe assumption that we will have limited available funds (and top class 24 year olds are maximum cost), I think I'm at the point where I'd prioritise squad health over the next 2-3-4 years. Do we want a title next year, only to see a Souness-era regression in the years that follow? (That took 30 years to fully overcome, with a title?). If we hadn't won the title last year then sure - but we did. I'd rather we were competitive for years to come than chase the disappearing dream of short term dominance.

On Firmino, my view is that we've already changed the way we play - and the Firmino 'problem' is that he doesn't quite suit the new us anyway (and hasn't, at his highest level, for at least a year and a half): poor form and tired legs are just making it even more painful to watch.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #21 on: March 5, 2021, 05:31:37 pm »
However, the current thinking by all the optimistic folk is that after the summer all these things are back in place the team will burst back into life. The way we have capitulated even after morale-boosting wins makes me heavily doubt this.

Yeah, it's too much of a drop off. Things need to be adjusted incrementally so it never gets to that stage.

Of course we've been unlucky with injuries and biased officials, but there's a much deeper malaise. City had a drop off last year but a couple of signings and they could regroup because there wasn't a lot wrong, they still got over 80 points last season and won a cup.

When has a team successfully recovered from this scale of collapse without a big rebuild? Look at 14/15 under Rodgers the year after a great league season. The hope that that was just a bad season and we'd be fine with a few signings and a rebuild of the coaching staff. It was always fantasy. When something is drastically wrong, it won't suddenly just become right again by magic.

We've tried to excuse the level of the collapse by injuries, VAR, Manc refs, Covid and it does all add up, but there is no excusing our last 6 home games. None at all.  The hangover of this season's injuries will be with us next season (particularly at centre back because injury prone players now even more injury prone and perhaps lose pace/drop a level) and we'll still have Manc refs, VAR and Covid and the effects of missing out on CL. It won't all be fine and dandy again come August.
« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 05:35:48 pm by Fromola »
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #22 on: March 5, 2021, 05:59:42 pm »
I get as an LFC fan you want to hope for the best but hoping that all of your squad ages like Messi, Ronaldo or Lewandowski is just madness.  Three of the best to ever do it is not something to be used as a way to measure likely outcomes.  This is where the Thiago decision was baffling to a lot of people at the time when looking at age of the squad and the transfer model that Edwards has clearly been using up until now.  Big wages to a player that will be declining when you also have half of your starting XI in the same boat?  It's just adding one more thing that will have to be fixed at some point and the odds are that it would be sooner than later as midfielders do not exactly age gracefully. 

I'm sure someone can repost the list of expiring contracts between now and 2023 but it's pretty clear there is only 1-2 years left with the team as is and why this year happening as it has should be a bit hard to take for Klopp and the club.  We're not getting it back and what should have been a continued run towards trophies (barring a CL miracle) has been completely shot with a lot of very large unknowns for 2021/2022 season onwards. 

This is where it gets difficult in that because our resources are finite we have to hit on most of our transfers just as we did to get to where we are in the first place.  ManC have annoyingly already mainly accomplished this when you look at their squad.  Can we do it but with less resources?  We'll find out but Gini is just the first domino to fall.  A lot more will be changing but that's the way it's always worked whether you noticed it or not. 

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #23 on: March 5, 2021, 06:09:54 pm »
I agree, which is why banking on Mane to get back to his old form is dubious.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #24 on: March 5, 2021, 06:12:57 pm »
I agree, which is why banking on Mane to get back to his old form is dubious.

Mane is god.

Hes completely fucked my fantasy team for the season but nonetheless.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #25 on: March 5, 2021, 06:15:57 pm »
Mane is god.

Hes completely fucked my fantasy team for the season but nonetheless.



He was. He may not be again. It happens.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #26 on: March 5, 2021, 06:20:55 pm »
Fuckin old shit c*nts 8)

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #27 on: March 5, 2021, 07:17:47 pm »
I have to agree with Klopp, that a major rebuild is not needed. Yes we have a number of players of similar age but if we're writing people off at 28 then we're in trouble.
The cynics amongst us were having a go at people lamenting the loss of Jota. And yes he isn't going to fix all our problems but the inability to rotate this season without seriously weakening the team has had a devastating effect imo. 

Our friends at abu Dhabi played three outfield players over 30 against Wolverhampton. Plus 29 year old De Brunye. Gundogan will get player of the year at 30.
One of the big differences for them is they can and regularly do make up to seven changes from game to game. Yes they play to separate rules but under normal circumstances we have eight midfielders competing for three spots. It's the area Klopp likes to rotate most.

We all know what happened to our midfield due to the defensive crisis. But it also means we cant chance resting our fullbacks because we cant chance more inexperience at the back. Robertson is looking flat lately and it ain't age.

At least in the last week or so we have a few midfield options and Jota to spruce things up and I hope Klopp does just that.

So I suppose the point I'm trying to make is its not as bad as it appears. Looking through the current lens of despair is bound to taint perspective towards the negative side.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #28 on: March 5, 2021, 07:29:07 pm »
I have to agree with Klopp, that a major rebuild is not needed. Yes we have a number of players of similar age but if we're writing people off at 28 then we're in trouble.
The cynics amongst us were having a go at people lamenting the loss of Jota. And yes he isn't going to fix all our problems but the inability to rotate this season without seriously weakening the team has had a devastating effect imo. 

Our friends at abu Dhabi played three outfield players over 30 against Wolverhampton. Plus 29 year old De Brunye. Gundogan will get player of the year at 30.
One of the big differences for them is they can and regularly do make up to seven changes from game to game. Yes they play to separate rules but under normal circumstances we have eight midfielders competing for three spots. It's the area Klopp likes to rotate most.

We all know what happened to our midfield due to the defensive crisis. But it also means we cant chance resting our fullbacks because we cant chance more inexperience at the back. Robertson is looking flat lately and it ain't age.

At least in the last week or so we have a few midfield options and Jota to spruce things up and I hope Klopp does just that.

So I suppose the point I'm trying to make is its not as bad as it appears. Looking through the current lens of despair is bound to taint perspective towards the negative side.

Thing is, we have talked about getting our starting 11 on the field and our best one has Van Dijk, Thiago/Gini, Henderson, Mane, Salah and Firmino so that’s 6 players who are in that 28 - 30 age range.
 
Plus you are forgetting that we sell to buy. How do you buy new players without income of selling some?
« Last Edit: March 5, 2021, 07:31:45 pm by a treeless whopper »

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #29 on: March 5, 2021, 07:30:37 pm »
I have to agree with Klopp, that a major rebuild is not needed. Yes we have a number of players of similar age but if we're writing people off at 28 then we're in trouble.
The cynics amongst us were having a go at people lamenting the loss of Jota. And yes he isn't going to fix all our problems but the inability to rotate this season without seriously weakening the team has had a devastating effect imo. 

Our friends at abu Dhabi played three outfield players over 30 against Wolverhampton. Plus 29 year old De Brunye. Gundogan will get player of the year at 30.
One of the big differences for them is they can and regularly do make up to seven changes from game to game. Yes they play to separate rules but under normal circumstances we have eight midfielders competing for three spots. It's the area Klopp likes to rotate most.

We all know what happened to our midfield due to the defensive crisis. But it also means we cant chance resting our fullbacks because we cant chance more inexperience at the back. Robertson is looking flat lately and it ain't age.

At least in the last week or so we have a few midfield options and Jota to spruce things up and I hope Klopp does just that.

So I suppose the point I'm trying to make is its not as bad as it appears. Looking through the current lens of despair is bound to taint perspective towards the negative side.

City can afford to have players essentially retire at theirs. We sorely need the income of selling players, which now may be the ideal time to say goodbye to some stalwarts as it will be the last time they will hold any significant value.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #30 on: March 5, 2021, 07:36:26 pm »
City can afford to have players essentially retire at theirs. We sorely need the income of selling players, which now may be the ideal time to say goodbye to some stalwarts as it will be the last time they will hold any significant value.
yes, but their value will be massively down this summer and no club will have money to buy. Conversely, any club that does have money will be in clover. That's why Liverpool need investment this summer. Saying it's not there is clinging to the old break even system when it's obviously not going to work. Good owner should recognise the need to go into debt occassionally to stave off 5-6 years of being in the doldrums
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #31 on: March 5, 2021, 07:37:58 pm »
Welp.  Almost every other club in world football somehow gets by without selling someone for £100m+ every year but I guess we here at LFC are screwed.  Time to turn Anfield into houses like Highbury and call it a day.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #32 on: March 5, 2021, 07:40:16 pm »
Welp.  Almost every other club in world football somehow gets by without selling someone for £100m+ every year but I guess we here at LFC are screwed.  Time to turn Anfield into houses like Highbury and call it a day.

You have said this before but are you saying we are in the position to do that?

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #33 on: March 5, 2021, 07:42:28 pm »
I'm only talking in relation to the age of the players and how I think there's more life in this team than they're getting credit for. Its pointless playing FM. We don't have cash and outside Abu Dhabi and PSG neither does anyone else.

All I'd put money on now is that we won't have any major rebuild and fantasies of selling our star players for huge money and replacing them with the Haalands of this world won't happen.

But this isn't a transfer thread so ill stop there.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #34 on: March 5, 2021, 07:48:19 pm »
Welp.  Almost every other club in world football somehow gets by without selling someone for £100m+ every year but I guess we here at LFC are screwed.  Time to turn Anfield into houses like Highbury and call it a day.

This will be Klopp's 5th full season at Liverpool in that time we have sold players to the tune of £404m. So around £80m per season. Our model clearly is sell to buy.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #35 on: March 5, 2021, 07:55:02 pm »
FSG actually could invest quite easily in the summer if they wanted to, as they've just got a £530 million investment and the last two or three years of profits have given us a substantial cushion for FFP. The question is whether they want to.

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #36 on: March 5, 2021, 08:07:05 pm »
This will be Klopp's 5th full season at Liverpool in that time we have sold players to the tune of £404m. So around £80m per season. Our model clearly is sell to buy.
Yes, but that is the point, the old model will no longer work, or won't for this summer at least. Sticking to it will make the situation worse.

However, I think the owners are smart and will recognise this.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #37 on: March 5, 2021, 08:09:19 pm »
FSG actually could invest quite easily in the summer if they wanted to, as they've just got a £530 million investment and the last two or three years of profits have given us a substantial cushion for FFP. The question is whether they want to.

How much have they lost due to COVID ?

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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #38 on: March 5, 2021, 08:52:12 pm »
How much have they lost due to COVID ?
How much do they stand to lose if the team collapses and fades away? Even if we pay out less wages in bonuses, a lot of our sponsorship will depend on our success - Nike is based on big sales.

Every team has lost tons of money due to covid (apart from the obvious 2) but our underlying revenue is solid enough to invest in spite of this, not on luxury items but on need.

Then we come to the clubs biggest asset - Jurgen himself. The entire model is dependent on someone outperforming his resources and people like him don't come around often. I firmly belive the reason he left Dortmund was because losing your best players to your rivals every year is draining. I don't want any chance of that happening here.
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Re: Age profile of the team
« Reply #39 on: March 5, 2021, 08:56:22 pm »
How much have they lost due to COVID ?

It doesn't matter COVID losses are exempt for FFP calculations.
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