Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire

[lazzathered]

sorry rhaegar was a fucking c*nt

Everyone in the books bar Robert Baratheon seems to think he was ok as Targs go

[Redcap]

Rhaegar was a bit too focused on the prophecies I think.

Anyway I think we'll find out more about what sort of a character he is later on. I expect we'll get a couple of more anecdotes before it's all over. I'm sure the Tower of Joy episode will be described in more detail later on.

[LF]

Everyone in the books bar Robert Baratheon seems to think he was ok as Targs go

i dont need to go into why he was a c*nt. it is known.



my reaction everytime i tell a targ fanboy/girl how robert smashed rhaegar. tooooooo swweeeet

[LF]

Rhaegar was a bit too focused on the prophecies I think.

Anyway I think we'll find out more about what sort of a character he is later on. I expect we'll get a couple of more anecdotes before it's all over. I'm sure the Tower of Joy episode will be described in more detail later on.

yeah we might just find out why he thought it was a good idea to send all of the best kingsgaurds to toj while leaving his wife and children defenseless. good going you stupid twat rhaegar.

[Niru Red4ever]

Probably posted this before already, but Book 6 (previously book 2 before the series got bloated way beyond original planning) was originally entitled "A Time for Wolves." I'm not sure that there'll be a Stark reunion but I imagine we will be seeing some of them at least getting some back at last.

I think (I may be wrong) that the original last book was intended to be 'A Time of Wolves' (it was supposed to be a 6 book series then). Anyway, the title got changed coz it seemed it was a bit spoilery; so I am hoping the Starks will survive the worst.

[Bob Loblaw]

As far as Rhaeger goes

Spoiler

it all depends on the circumstances that led to L+R=J i suppose? Either they were secretly in love with each other, or he did abduct her and then i suppose rape her?

[close]

I really need to have a second read through, so much stuff I've missed.

[lazzathered]

I really need to have a second read through, so much stuff I've missed.

That's what I'm doing Clash of Kings now. Love it. A Dance With Dragons pissed me off so much I had really forgotten just how good this series was. There are a lot of hints about Rhaegar throughout, although GRR Martin has taken so long to get to the flipping point that the whole internet has cracked the code and I suspect that is why ADWD ended the way it did.

[Redcap]

As far as Rhaeger goes

Spoiler

it all depends on the circumstances that led to L+R=J i suppose? Either they were secretly in love with each other, or he did abduct her and then i suppose rape her?

[close]

I really need to have a second read through, so much stuff I've missed.

I know.

For instance did you pick up that Jon Connington was in love with Rhaegar? I didn't see it but my friend and apparently quite a few fans are quite adamant about it.

[LF]

That's what I'm doing Clash of Kings now. Love it. A Dance With Dragons pissed me off so much I had really forgotten just how good this series was. There are a lot of hints about Rhaegar throughout, although GRR Martin has taken so long to get to the flipping point that the whole internet has cracked the code and I suspect that is why ADWD ended the way it did.

what are you talking about?

[Mr Dilkington]

Just started ADWD today.

Really good start. Nice to have Dany, Tyrion and co back.

[lazzathered]

what are you talking about?

Re-reading the series to pick up on stuff I missed before. Love all the little bits and pieces I didn't pick up on the first read through. And the theory that R+L=J. Some people have spent a silly amount of time analysing the books to prove that, and he could also be Azor Ahai or The Prince That Was Promised. That's why Young Griff is such an interesting development.

I'm really looking forward to meeting Howland Reed and finding out what actually happened at The Tower of Joy. I have a fair idea, but I just like my theories proved true 

I don't know how to post spoilers, hence me being a bit cryptic

[lazzathered]

Just started ADWD today.

Really good start. Nice to have Dany, Tyrion and co back.

Enjoy it, it's great early on. I made it about halfway through before I started getting very frustrated with the author

[dave 5516]

Re-reading the series to pick up on stuff I missed before. Love all the little bits and pieces I didn't pick up on the first read through. And the theory that R+L=J. Some people have spent a silly amount of time analysing the books to prove that, and he could also be Azor Ahai or The Prince That Was Promised. That's why Young Griff is such an interesting development.

I'm really looking forward to meeting Howland Reed and finding out what actually happened at The Tower of Joy. I have a fair idea, but I just like my theories proved true 

I don't know how to post spoilers, hence me being a bit cryptic

Spoiler

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=92379.0 

[close]

Tell me more.

[lazzathered]

Spoiler

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=92379.0 

[close]

Tell me more.

Thanks  Now I can ruin everything for people as they accidentally hover over my spoiler tag of dooooom 

[dave 5516]

Thanks  Now I can ruin everything for people as they accidentally hover over my spoiler tag of dooooom 

And why not?

Spoiler

They all die in the end,except Tyrion.

[close]

[LF]

no what do you mean by this "There are a lot of hints about Rhaegar throughout, although GRR Martin has taken so long to get to the flipping point that the whole internet has cracked the code and I suspect that is why ADWD ended the way it did." so what did we crack to get grrm to end adwd the way it did?

[LF]

Spoiler

are you talking about jon being rhaegar's son?

[close]

what has that got to do with the ending? 

[lazzathered]

Sorry LF, hope this explains my statement

Spoiler

People figuring out Jon is (possibly) Rhaegar's son and having waaay too much time to do this because of the delay between books MAY have caused Martin to pretend to kill Jon off (I don't believe he is actually dead, he'll warg into Ghost or something) at the end of ADWD. The readers were becoming too attached. To be honest, I think it would be braver of him to leave Jon dead and stick with it, even though he was one of my favourite characters. No stupid zombies like Cat.

Basically I think the internet helped spread the theory so that rather than people coming up with the idea on their own and then being happy they "saw it first", or others being utterly shocked by the whole concept that they didn't see coming, forums have allowed people to share theories and evidence to, in effect, ruin George RR Martin's BIG REVEAL.

[close]

I'm so stupidly happy I know how to spoiler now. I hope the next book gets written soon, I'm all grumpy now GOT Season 2 has finished

[Rusty Oysterburger]

I don't see how people are spoiling the reveal if GRRM lays on the clues and foreshadowing with a trowel in the earlier books. It's all there right in front of you and it's not particularly cryptic or vague hence why it's so well known.

[LF]

Sorry LF, hope this explains my statement

Spoiler

People figuring out Jon is (possibly) Rhaegar's son and having waaay too much time to do this because of the delay between books MAY have caused Martin to pretend to kill Jon off (I don't believe he is actually dead, he'll warg into Ghost or something) at the end of ADWD. The readers were becoming too attached. To be honest, I think it would be braver of him to leave Jon dead and stick with it, even though he was one of my favourite characters. No stupid zombies like Cat.

Basically I think the internet helped spread the theory so that rather than people coming up with the idea on their own and then being happy they "saw it first", or others being utterly shocked by the whole concept that they didn't see coming, forums have allowed people to share theories and evidence to, in effect, ruin George RR Martin's BIG REVEAL.

[close]

I'm so stupidly happy I know how to spoiler now. I hope the next book gets written soon, I'm all grumpy now GOT Season 2 has finished

umm thats not how it works with GRRM. he wouldn't change anything just because some tiny portions of fans on the internet have "found" out something

[G a r y]

I'm partway through book four the the story regarding the Iron Islands is boring the fuck out of me. I'm not even arsed about them!

[Rotation]

I know.

For instance did you pick up that Jon Connington was in love with Rhaegar? I didn't see it but my friend and apparently quite a few fans are quite adamant about it.

Well what do you mean by love? It struck me that he admired him to the point of obsession and loved him platonically but nothing sexual.

[Rotation]

I'm partway through book four the the story regarding the Iron Islands is boring the fuck out of me. I'm not even arsed about them!

Gets very interesting imo. Victarion and Euron are two badass/evil characters. Gotta say that Asha doesn't really do anything for me though.

[Rotation]

I don't see how people are spoiling the reveal if GRRM lays on the clues and foreshadowing with a trowel in the earlier books. It's all there right in front of you and it's not particularly cryptic or vague hence why it's so well known.

I also have a feeling that the reveal is not going to be as straightforward as some might think. In other words the biggest surprise will overshadow the fact that R+L=J exists.

[Rotation]

That will be season 4 with the splitting of season 3 into 2.

Rains of Castamere was sung by Bronn and the Lannister men during the episode Blackwater, and in the end credits. Fucking boss.

Spoiler

I have a feeling RW will be the 9th episode next year. The last third of SOS can easily fill a season in it's own right. + I have a feeling they will move some of the Dorne scenes in AFFC to season 4 so that we meet the RV before he comes to Kings Landing.

[close]

[Redcap]

Well what do you mean by love? It struck me that he admired him to the point of obsession and loved him platonically but nothing sexual.

Spoiler

From a GRRM interview (allegedly)

Q: Is a certain POV character in ADWD gay?

GRRM: "I can't answer without spoiling, but if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then yes."

The chapter to look at is the one where he returns to Griffon's Roost and recollects being there with Rhaegar in his younger days.

"As he climbed he remembered past ascents- a hundred with his lord father, who liked to stand and look out over woods and crags and sea and know that all he saw belonged to House Connington, and one (only one!) with Rhaegar Targaryen. Prince Rhaegar was returning from Dorne, and he and his escort had lingered here a fortnight. He was so young then, and I was younger. Boys, the both of us. At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver-stringed harp and played for them. A song of love and doom, Jon Connington recalled, and every woman in the hall was weeping when he put down the harp. Not the men, of course. Particularly not his own father, whose only love was land."

In the next paragraph:

"Your father's lands are beautiful," Prince Rhaegar had said, standing right where Jon was standing now. And the boy he'd been had replied, "One day they will all be mine." As if that could impress a prince who was heir to the entire realm, from the Arbor to the Wall

And the next:

I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell.

[close]

I suppose all of this could vaguely be interpreted as a boy's regret for letting down a man he much admired, but the interview would suggest otherwise.

[Redcap]

I'm partway through book four the the story regarding the Iron Islands is boring the fuck out of me. I'm not even arsed about them!

I rather liked the part where Asha is talking to that sagely uncle of hers. The Kingsmoot was not a bad spectacle either, which will no doubt look far less impressive in the show.

[vagabond]

This thread has convinced me of a full re-read.

[Redcap]

This thread has convinced me of a full re-read.

I'd like to do it too. But it's such a massive undertaking.

[Rotation]

I'd like to do it too. But it's such a massive undertaking.

I just read the whole series in about 2.5 months. I was reading just to get through it though so I feel like I need to re-read at some point. Will probably wait a year or two at least.

[Red Viper]

Bloody hell. I'm definitely struggling a bit with AFFC. Only about 150 pages in after a week whereas the whole of ASOS only took me about 10 days.

Spoiler

I have a feeling RW will be the 9th episode next year. The last third of SOS can easily fill a season in it's own right. + I have a feeling they will move some of the Dorne scenes in AFFC to season 4 so that we meet the RV before he comes to Kings Landing.

[close]

Spoiler

I hope so cos I don't see what the ending of Season 3 could be if they only stick to ASOS Part 1. Like you said, alot of stuff happens in Part 2 that could fill a series after the Red Wedding.

On a side note, I think I was more gutted to see the Red Viper die than I was about the Red Wedding, thought he was a good character as brief as his part was.

[close]

[kopindian]

The chapter in which Tyrion meets RV for the first time is one of my favorites from the whole series.

[Red Viper]

The chapter in which Tyrion meets RV for the first time is one of my favorites from the whole series.

Yeah that's a good chapter.

Book 3 spoiler

Spoiler

All of the chapters in relation to Tyrion's trial were great as well, particularly the trial by combat between RV and the Mountain.

Just wish he hadn't been complacent and gotten too close to CLegane.

[close]

[Rotation]

Bloody hell. I'm definitely struggling a bit with AFFC. Only about 150 pages in after a week whereas the whole of ASOS only took me about 10 days.

Fight through it. Honestly, as someone who didn't have to endure the 5 year wait between books I really enjoyed AFFC. Not everyone's cup of tea but once you get through the whole "meeting new characters phase" it becomes quite enjoyable.


AFFC and even DWD don't have the breakneck pace of SOS but they are great tools for character development and will hopefully be looked at in a better light once the series is complete.

[Mr Dilkington]

Yeah, I thought AFfC was much better than some of the stuff I had read about it suggested.

It certainly drags every so often, but it picks up towards the last third.

Sansa has some major character development, and it's always interesting to see what Littlefinger is up to.

Warmed to Brienne too. Always found her slightly boring, but having her as a pov character really turned my opinion around.

Around 200 pages into ADWD and it's really good so far.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Still think the epilogue in ADWD is easily the worst moment of the books.

[LF]

Still think the epilogue in ADWD is easily the worst moment of the books.

why?

[Studog]

I'm currently on SoS book 1. Enjoying it so far. Seems a bit better paced than CoK.

My main issues are these:
1. When does bran stop being a boring bastard. I don't give one about his warg abilities. He's a little whiny bell.
2. Same for cat. She just moans about her kids. She's a victim.

As for other people. I think Sansa seems to be more interesting in the third book. Her interaction with Marge tyrell/queen of thorns seems good

I also really like Jon's chapters. I've seen a lot of people give him stick but I think it's good.

Overall enjoying it apart from the 2 overly whiny bell's!

[JoeCole]

Read a certain onion knight's chapter in White Harbor last night, was tempted to stay up all night and continue reading. Wylla Manderly is boss. Loving ADWD so far, if it continues like this it'll probably go second in my rankings after ASOS. Was great to find out where 'Reek' has been aswell.

And I gotta disagree with the above poster, I'm loving Bran's story arc.

[Redcap]

I like Bran a great deal. But unfortunately I do fear he's not going to get the kind of happy ending I had hoped for him.

All the stuff in the North is excellent in ADWD. It's just all the Dany, Quentyn and some of the Tyrion stuff that drag on a bit.