Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[CraigDS]

Why? It doesn't matter what the uptake is. If you have been vaccinated you are immune so are of no risk to anyone? They do this for diseases like Yellow Fever.

Because it will cause division if those who have had the vaccine are allowed to do things like go the pub, whilst those not allowed to get the vaccine yet (say a healthy 25yr old) has to wait until vaccines are rolled out to such a level that it includes their group (which would be last).

If the vaccine roll out is going to be fast, to all, then I don't think one is needed. If people don't take up their option of one when they are given one in large numbers then yeah, maybe this should be looked at.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

What bollocks in the detail yet again. 4000 people in Tier 1 and 2000 in Tier 2, regardless of the fact that somewhere like Anfield could comfortably hold many more in safety.

Just on this it seems like the way it is going to work is the limit will be the lower of 4000/2000 or 50% of capacity. You'd imagine that the 4000/2000 figure is not so much an issue of people being distanced within the stadium but that number of spectators using public transport travelling there, hanging round food vans etc etc.

[Robinred]

Just on this it seems like the way it is going to work is the limit will be the lower of 4000/2000 or 50% of capacity. You'd imagine that the 4000/2000 figure is not so much an issue of people being distanced within the stadium but that number of spectators using public transport travelling there, hanging round food vans etc etc.

Out of interest, how will those clubs in tiers 1 or 2 choose who, out of the tens of thousands wishing to attend, they let in?

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Out of interest, how will those clubs in tiers 1 or 2 choose who, out of the tens of thousands wishing to attend, they let in?

Tickets. Just the same as we choose who gets to attend the massively oversubscribed big games at Anfield. Seems straightforward - not sure if I am missing the point of where you are coming from. Are you talking about season ticket holders at the biggest clubs? I'd imagine they'll be doing it by ballot in those cases.

[TepidT2O]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

You see the kids - both schoolkids and college kids and there is zero social distancing outside their places of education and zero fucks given.

And yet they've fucked about with pubs and restaurants again despite their being less than 3% confirmed links for covid.

These fuckers just want pubs around the country to go to the wall don't they.

Yeah, but you’re seeing this as a binary thing...

To keep schools and colleges open you need to cut a load of other stuff to compensate.  You could cut other stuff instead, but it’s reducing the number of interactions as much as possible. Something has to give...

It comes down whats  least important...

[Robinred]

Tickets. Just the same as we choose who gets to attend the massively oversubscribed big games at Anfield. Seems straightforward - not sure if I am missing the point of where you are coming from. Are you talking about season ticket holders at the biggest clubs? I'd imagine they'll be doing it by ballot in those cases.

I was wondering whether the seats allocated would be a mixture of season ticket holders and those without season tickets - decided presumably by ballot - or whether season tickets would have priority. Also, would the P.L have a say on how clubs do it, or would that be left to clubs’ own discretion?

[Red Beret]

Restrictions being lifted over Christmas no?

I don't know.  I hope so as I live alone and would just like to treat myself this year.

I've tested negative and so have the people I have any kind of interaction with, and I'm quite careful with masks and stuff.

Are there any links, as I'm not really good at finding this stuff.  I tend to get information overload.

[djahern]

I don't know.  I hope so as I live alone and would just like to treat myself this year.

I've tested negative and so have the people I have any kind of interaction with, and I'm quite careful with masks and stuff.

Are there any links, as I'm not really good at finding this stuff.  I tend to get information overload.

Not confirmed yet so no links. But apparently restrictions lifted for 5 days over Christmas. Maybe still restricted to 3 households meeting up.

Or by getting away do you mean going abroad?

[Red Beret]

Not confirmed yet so no links. But apparently restrictions lifted for 5 days over Christmas. Maybe still restricted to 3 households meeting up.

Or by getting away do you mean going abroad?

No.  I want to pop to Llandudno December 23-27.  Find (hopefully) a good hotel and let somebody else worry about Christmas dinner.  I have a friend who lives there, but as Wales is already out of lockdown and I know I'm safe it shouldn't be a problem to meet her one evening for a few drinks.

I'm hoping to get a good deal as a lot of places will be looking for business. I can't book anything till I know where we stand on lockdown and travel restrictions though.

[Guz-kop]

No Covid vaccine passports. Fuck you Boris.

Announcement today from qantas is huge. Expect a lot of other airlines and countries to do the same I think.

[Welshred]

Announcement today from qantas is huge. Expect a lot of other airlines and countries to do the same I think.

What was their announcement?

[Legs]

What was their announcement?

They said you have to prove you are negative or have to prove you had the vaccine.

[Welshred]

They said you have to prove you are negative or have to prove you had the vaccine.

Ah thanks. That's pretty easy to do though as a copy of your recent medical history will show it's been provided to you.

[Legs]

Ah thanks. That's pretty easy to do though as a copy of your recent medical history will show it's been provided to you.

Yep I know idiot in charge said you aren’t forced to have a vaccine.

This is correct you don’t have to but if you want to go abroad gigs footy you may need to prove it.

[djahern]

No.  I want to pop to Llandudno December 23-27.  Find (hopefully) a good hotel and let somebody else worry about Christmas dinner.  I have a friend who lives there, but as Wales is already out of lockdown and I know I'm safe it shouldn't be a problem to meet her one evening for a few drinks.

I'm hoping to get a good deal as a lot of places will be looking for business. I can't book anything till I know where we stand on lockdown and travel restrictions though.

Yea tricky one. So today’s announcement means hotels will be shut in tier 3 but open for regions in tier 1 and 2. Tiers for each region won’t be announced until Thursday. But those tiers only apply to England. So might have to see what Wales will be doing. Apparently they might announce their own tier system soon for December.

The relaxation of households meeting up for 5 days over Christmas not confirmed yet but it sounds like whatever policy is announced will be common to all 4 nations. So I guess you have to wait to see what Wales tier system is, what tier the area you want to go to will be in, and if it’s the highest tier with hotels shut whether that 5 day relaxation of restriction if announced extends to hotels or is just for socialising in peoples houses.

[Red Beret]

Yea tricky one. So today’s announcement means hotels will be shut in tier 3 but open for regions in tier 1 and 2. Tiers for each region won’t be announced until Thursday. But those tiers only apply to England. So might have to see what Wales will be doing. Apparently they might announce their own tier system soon for December.

The relaxation of households meeting up for 5 days over Christmas not confirmed yet but it sounds like whatever policy is announced will be common to all 4 nations. So I guess you have to wait to see what Wales tier system is, what tier the area you want to go to will be in, and if it’s the highest tier with hotels shut whether that 5 day relaxation of restriction if announced extends to hotels or is just for socialising in peoples houses.

Well honestly I will just be happy to be able to travel and worry about the rest of it when I get there.  I don't have much in the way of family and I only have a handful of friends I see on anything like a regular basis.  Most of them have been tested and come back negative, and when we meet we social distance, where masks as needed and have very little physical contact. 

My friend in Wales is quite different as she has her own family and relatives/friends dotted throughout Wales and as far as Stockport.  But things seem to be much more relaxed in Wales at the moment and she's seeing friends regularly.  I'm not in her "bubble" but I'm happy to isolate when I get home if need be (I think I'm more likely to get Covid than to give it at this point.)

The clock is running on when to book though, as I imagine there might be a rush when lockdown lifts.

[John Higgins]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

You see the kids - both schoolkids and college kids and there is zero social distancing outside their places of education and zero fucks given.

And yet they've fucked about with pubs and restaurants again despite their being less than 3% confirmed links for covid.

These fuckers just want pubs around the country to go to the wall don't they.

How do you square your opinion above with the fact that infections have dropped massively since the introduction of tier 3 closing hospitality whilst education remains fully open?

[spen71]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

You see the kids - both schoolkids and college kids and there is zero social distancing outside their places of education and zero fucks given.

And yet they've fucked about with pubs and restaurants again despite their being less than 3% confirmed links for covid.

These fuckers just want pubs around the country to go to the wall don't they.

They don’t give a shit about the pubs.

[classycarra]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

Latest surveillance suggests otherwise (see pages 19 and 20)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/936671/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w47_FINAL.PDF

[BarryCrocker]

QANTAS, Australia's largest airline will require passengers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before they will be allowed to travel on an international flight.

Apparently, a lot of other airlines are in support of this move. I'm sure it will extend across multiple businesses and industries.

My only concern is that this could drive a class system where rich people will jump the vaccine queue buy paying for it to get ahead of the general population.

[Lee1-6Liv]

How will the vaccine passport work? Are they going to wait for everyone to be offered the vaccine and bring it in?

I mean a large portion of the population are way down the line when it comes to being offered the vaccine so are airlines just going to turn money down if you haven’t been offered the vaccine.

[BarryCrocker]

How will the vaccine passport work? Are they going to wait for everyone to be offered the vaccine and bring it in?

I mean a large portion of the population are way down the line when it comes to being offered the vaccine so are airlines just going to turn money down if you haven’t been offered the vaccine.

There's obviously some tech work that needs to be done. I have a vaccine passport that I use for travel to exotic destinations for Yellow Fever, etc.

They're adamant that only people who have it will be allowed to use their planes. As I mentioned there'll be a class divide as wealthy people jump the vaccine queue.

[djahern]

And just to follow up, he also said this which is another realistic possibility:

"Might also be another reason why half a dose was better [refering to vaccine containing the DNA inside a virus]... As well as inducing an immune response towards the Spike of coronavirus (which we want), viral-vectored vaccines like this also induces a response against the vector which delivers that Spike (which we don't want).

A low first dose may reduce the response towards the vector allowing the second dose to be more effective"

Some speculation here

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03326-w

Summary seems to be that the higher efficacy will fall away once numbers increase, low dose stimulates memory T cells better initially, or the higher first dose promotes an immune response to the vector that blunts the effect of the second dose. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

They don’t give a shit about the pubs.

I think the problem is that you have two extremes whereby we either shut everything down or keep everything open. The moment you start moving in between those two extremes then some places will have to shut whilst others stay open. Once you get into that situation then you are making value judgements about comparative 'public goods' that different places bring. Once you get into that balancing act I think it is very difficult to find examples of businesses/public services that we should shut down earlier in order to keep pubs and restaurants open. Which sector do you think is more expendable?

Obviously had we not spunked millions/billions on a not fit for purpose test and trace system and or Brexit we would be in a better position to close the pubs and fund them properly so that they can survive till we reach something closer to 'normality'.

Speaking more personally and controversially - I like going to the pub as much as the next man/woman but at the same time I would suggest that as a nation our relationship with alcohol over the last few years has been becoming increasingly dysfunctional. Some of the feedback that has been coming back from liver wards has been deeply worrying. On an individual level of course I'm not going to celebrate people losing their jobs. But on a macro level a contraction in the "alcohol economy" and a shift away from people getting hammered every weekend might actually be for the best. 

[CraigDS]

I’d imagine there is a much bigger problem with people drinking at home, getting cheap booze from supermarkets, than there is from people drinking regularly in pubs where drink prices are pretty high.

Costs me £4.65 a pint in my local. So on an average night maybe £40ish. From the supermarket I could buy around 4x as much of the same larger.

[Lad]

I was wondering whether the seats allocated would be a mixture of season ticket holders and those without season tickets - decided presumably by ballot - or whether season tickets would have priority. Also, would the P.L have a say on how clubs do it, or would that be left to clubs’ own discretion?

Easy decision at Anfield. We can let 4000 tourists in, first gamers even and they can spend tons in the club shop while visiting. Win win surely...no ?

[BarryCrocker]

I’d imagine there is a much bigger problem with people drinking at home, getting cheap booze from supermarkets, than there is from people drinking regularly in pubs where drink prices are pretty high.

Costs me £4.65 a pint in my local. So on an average night maybe £40ish. From the supermarket I could buy around 4x as much of the same larger.

This is a massive challenge. Most people can sit at home downing supermarket lager, smoking their heads off and eating a oven pizza all while watching the football. There's a massive social cost of not getting back out in that people will get too use to being alone and not mixing.

[UntouchableLuis]

Do I understand it that in tier 2 people will be able to hold new years eve parties in their gardens under a gazebo with one other household of 50 people?

[redbyrdz]

How will the vaccine passport work? Are they going to wait for everyone to be offered the vaccine and bring it in?

I mean a large portion of the population are way down the line when it comes to being offered the vaccine so are airlines just going to turn money down if you haven’t been offered the vaccine.

Not everywhere has an NHS that will vaccinate everyone for free, at the cost of coming up with some sort of order in which to do it. I'd imagine in a lot of countries it's pay first, come first. So rich people will get it first anyway.

[west_london_red]

QANTAS, Australia's largest airline will require passengers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before they will be allowed to travel on an international flight.

Apparently, a lot of other airlines are in support of this move. I'm sure it will extend across multiple businesses and industries.

My only concern is that this could drive a class system where rich people will jump the vaccine queue buy paying for it to get ahead of the general population.

From what I have read you won’t be able to get the vaccine privately, it will have to be via the NHS but people jumping queues with money is nothing new, and if there is the slightest chance that people can pay to jump the quest they always will, be it to get on a flight or just because they want to get vaccinated because they just want the protection.

[Red-Soldier]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

You see the kids - both schoolkids and college kids and there is zero social distancing outside their places of education and zero fucks given.

And yet they've fucked about with pubs and restaurants again despite their being less than 3% confirmed links for covid.

These fuckers just want pubs around the country to go to the wall don't they.

Data suggests otherwise:


Schools do not spread Covid-19, multiple studies find

Reports from Germany, Norway and the WHO conclude schoolchildren are not vector of infection

Previous analysis of raw data from across Europe has painted a confusing and contradictory picture of the potential link between schools and the spread of the coronavirus.

A total of 52 countries, “including France and Spain, actually saw infection rates rise during the holidays”, according to The Telegraph. “Some, such as Croatia, have seen cases fall after reopening schools. Others, like Hungary and Great Britain, have seen a rise.”

However, newly published reports have found no evidence that schools have any significant impact on infection rates. The latest evidence comprises:

a study conducted by the Norwegian National Institute of Public Health which found that infection rarely spreads from child to child, and that “the most common route of transmission to children and pupils is from adults in their household”
a report from Germany’s Institute of Labor Economics, which says that “school re-openings in Germany under strict hygiene measures combined with quarantine and containment measures have not increased the number of newly confirmed Sars-CoV-2 infections”
two reviews of data from countries across the world, conducted by the World Health Organization and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, which both “concluded that most children do not develop symptoms and there is little evidence of transmission in schools”, says the FT.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/108447/schools-do-not-spread-coronavirus-study

Why schools probably aren’t COVID hotspots
Young children are unlikely to spread the virus — but older kids are more at risk, say researchers.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3


RE the 3% figure:

“PUBS and restaurants caused less than three per cent of coronavirus infections in the week before the 10pm curfew, official data shows.”

The S*n, 27 September 2020

The S*n, the Daily Star and the Telegraph have all claimed that pubs and restaurants caused just 3% of Covid-19 infections in the week before the new 10pm curfew was announced.

This is a misreading of data published by Public Health England (PHE), which does not cover all Covid-19 cases.

https://fullfact.org/health/its-wrong-to-say-that-only-3-of-covid-19-cases-are-caused-by-restaurants-and-pubs/

[Bincey]

Do I understand it that in tier 2 people will be able to hold new years eve parties in their gardens under a gazebo with one other household of 50 people?

Think it goes back to the rule of 6 outdoors in tier 2.

[12C]

How will the vaccine passport work? Are they going to wait for everyone to be offered the vaccine and bring it in?

I mean a large portion of the population are way down the line when it comes to being offered the vaccine so are airlines just going to turn money down if you haven’t been offered the vaccine.

Well they could always put a RFID chip in your arm when the do the vaccine and then a simple scan would tell if you were vaccinated.
(Ducks for cover)

Seriously though, I can see people getting fake passports from the internet to get round this, such is the stupidity within the anti vaxxer movement.

[butchersdog]

The elephant in the room being that colleges, schools and universities are the main cause of spreading.

You see the kids - both schoolkids and college kids and there is zero social distancing outside their places of education and zero fucks given.

And yet they've fucked about with pubs and restaurants again despite their being less than 3% confirmed links for covid.

These fuckers just want pubs around the country to go to the wall don't they.

Understand that perspective Andy, what I don't understand though is, if it's education that's causing the spread, why are infections decreasing now we're a significant way into the second lockdown, but with education still running? Could be mixing in houses that's the issue, but then lots of areas were in tier 3, which banned this anyway, and didn't see their numbers decrease significantly (?) I got the impression that no sector wants to acknowledge the part they place in the spread, everyone who ever gets interviewed says it's nothing to do with their area of business. Which again, I understand why they'd say that, as they're suffering, but the simple fact is it's got to be spreading somewhere.

[Zeb]

Newsnight was interesting last night. Reckons there's a possibility that the testing in Liverpool is picking up the worried well, who all headed to get tested, but not harder to reach parts of the community. Suggestion there's parts of Liverpool where barely 4% of the local community turned out for testing. Dan Carden making similar points to those made for a while about costs to testing positive for it being too great for many families. Behind it all is a lot of northern local authorities being pretty sceptical about the idea of mass testing and not wanting to be bounced into it when they believe they could target resources more effectively.

Newsnight's Katie Razzall wrote a twitter summary of her reporting for anyone without iplayer: https://twitter.com/katierazz/status/1330999988151848961

[harleydanger]

Why? It doesn't matter what the uptake is. If you have been vaccinated you are immune so are of no risk to anyone? They do this for diseases like Yellow Fever.

My understanding is these vaccines don’t make you immune, they reduce the severity of the illness. Hence you can still be a carrier. So you might be vaccinated, visit your grandparents might not be able to be vaccinated, and give it to them.

I might be wrong though.

[Rhi]

Newsnight was interesting last night. Reckons there's a possibility that the testing in Liverpool is picking up the worried well, who all headed to get tested, but not harder to reach parts of the community. Suggestion there's parts of Liverpool where barely 4% of the local community turned out for testing.

Is this not entirely predictable though? If you work in a food factory where you do not get paid full pay while sick, why would you voluntarily get tested and run the risk of having to take two weeks on sick pay?

Thankfully it looks like we have a route out of this now. Although that we're going to come out of it without reform for the SSP system is quite remarkable, after it was blatantly fucking obvious it's not fit for purpose. Tories are the worst.

[Babel Time]

My understanding is these vaccines don’t make you immune, they reduce the severity of the illness. Hence you can still be a carrier. So you might be vaccinated, visit your grandparents might not be able to be vaccinated, and give it to them.

I might be wrong though.

You are neither wrong nor right.

So far the trials have focused on the reduction in symptomatic cases. So these numbers do not tell us whether or not vaccines provide sterilising immunity (read can't catch it/pass it on). AstraZeneca, have indicated that theirs has reduced asymptomatic cases too, which would be a good sign for potential sterilising immunity. However we just have not seen enough data to make a call one way or the other.

Though this should become clearer in the coming weeks as full phase III trial data is released for the three vaccine frontrunners.


 

[djahern]

Newsnight was interesting last night. Reckons there's a possibility that the testing in Liverpool is picking up the worried well, who all headed to get tested, but not harder to reach parts of the community. Suggestion there's parts of Liverpool where barely 4% of the local community turned out for testing. Dan Carden making similar points to those made for a while about costs to testing positive for it being too great for many families. Behind it all is a lot of northern local authorities being pretty sceptical about the idea of mass testing and not wanting to be bounced into it when they believe they could target resources more effectively.

Newsnight's Katie Razzall wrote a twitter summary of her reporting for anyone without iplayer: https://twitter.com/katierazz/status/1330999988151848961

9 months into this and still no willingness to tackle this key issue, despite spending billions elsewhere.

Tinkering with the system so people have to isolate for less time by using repeat testing, is still skirting around the issue that many people won't volunteer for a test unless they are really ill because a positive test will have a huge impact on their finances. Perfectly willing to pay salaries for months for furloughed workers but unwilling to cover worker's lost earnings who should isolate. Spending billions on testing systems and track and trace systems can only be successful if those who should be getting tested and subsequently isolating are doing so.

We know it's been a problem for months now. At this point there is no other conclusion then the government are fully aware of the issue but are choosing not to address it directly for the impact it will have longer term when this pandemic has disappeared. Admit now that the (non existent) financial support is not fit for purpose and they can't rewind that once the pandemic ends.

[filopastry]

A friend of mine who works in the NHS, has just been told that he should expect to start his vaccination series within the next 4 weeks or so