Topic: Falling out of love with football: a fan’s lament

[kcbworth]

I wonder if the ridiculously high standard set by us an Man City over the past few seasons - where even the most minute of slipups is likely to be make or break, is a factor also. Makes it hard to enjoy knowing how fine the margins are at this point

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Most of you seem to have a problem with social media. Get off twitter, get off facebook,or start deleting certain people/pages you're following.

[Wingman]

My opinions on this:

A) Sport generally has a 'Who gives a shit?' vibe about it given the world situation right now. You can't be kept in a state of constant worry and stress about a pandemic for months and then all of a sudden be anxious about who lifts the FA Cup. It's small fry. Maybe none of it ever mattered in the first place. Furthermore, if you can't go to the ground, or even to the pub to watch the game in a communal setting, it's value is reduced even further and it just becomes a 90 minute TV show.

B) Athlete wages have spiraled in to utterly obscene levels that distance the players from the fans. No problem with players picking up a decent wedge for their work but it's hard to even fathom some of the payslips even in the Liverpool squad. Transfer fees fall under that category too. As a society, I feel like there is a mass economic awakening happening right now globally and bundled with that is the impossibility of being okay with £70m+ transfer fees when there is massive economic turmoil and homelessness and poverty are growing. As my own understanding of world economics and social inequality grows, so does my disgust at the transfer fees in football.

C) Way too much football on, and simultaneously the wrong type of games. League Cup & Nations League could both disappear in my opinion and it would actually make the fixture list better. I actually don't mind the idea of the expanded Club World Cup because Liverpool vs Flamengo showed that there is a novelty and intrigue to playing against teams from around the world like that. Aston Villa at Burton in a Cup that almost no one cares about just feels totally pointless to the neutral by contrast. I would probably give more time to River Plate vs Dortmund, or Corinthians vs Barcelona.

D) The over commercialization and simultaneous politicizing of the game makes it feel like just another extension of cooperate media and not it's own entity. Football for me was always a welcome escape from the day to day news and that feeling is totally gone now. Man City & PSG don't even feel like football clubs in the old sense. So rather than it being Northern Red team face local Northern Blue team, it is now about international politics and sportswashing blah blah blah. It's exhausting. Football and even the advertisements are now about ethics and social change instead of being about kicking the fucking ball around. I have plenty enough on my plate without having to be worrying about whether Arab billionaires are torturing journalists via secret police.

E) I don't know how it is for yourself or many others who feel this way, but my personal life is in such crisis pretty much all of the time at the moment. My own health is poor both physically with my heart playing up and my mental health playing up with depression and OCD for most of this year, finances too since I have been without regular income since March, socially much more isolated than before, single. So for me, why, when I have massive financial worries, massive health worries, reduced access to mental health services for on going depression, no regular job or obvious way out of this mess, increased social isolation; so why would I give a fuck about whether some big rich Dutch guy who earns more in a week than I have in my entire life lifts a metal pot or not? It doesn't change anything for me other than offering a distraction and some sporting excitement for an hour some weeks.

F) Rule changes and the apparent growth of simulation contribute to it being a very different experience these days. The Europa League final had me laughing and shaking my head as to how fucking stupid it was. Players screaming on the ground when they literally haven't been touched every two minutes. Every single time the whistle was blown. Without crowd, hearing the screams of the players and then a replay showing that the opponents boot was 10 inches away is just silly. Diving has always been around as long as I have been watching football, but the referees these days seem content to willingly fall for every trick in the book every time. Makes the sport as a whole look pointless. VAR then adds to this charade as you never know if you can celebrate a goal now. Every time a goal is scored now my reaction is "Oh okay it's in, but will it stand?" Takes a lot of the emotion out of it for me.

I used to watch pretty much every match, and then also follow other European leagues too. Especially La Liga, where I would watch potentially even more of it than I did the Premier League at one point. I will still log in to here with my morning/lunchtime coffee, and discuss the game with my mates, but I am not going to expend emotional energy on it other than it being something to have on in the background.

Anyway, I suppose watching less football means more free time to spend on bettering myself and working on the things I care about, so it's probably a good thing that football is occupying less and less of my life.

Great post. Agree with all of it

Best of health to you

[Morgana]

information only.
They're bad enough after a good result, I'd never venture in after a bad one, although it seems these days a bad result is when we've conceded given some of the posts. I swear that I've seen negative comments when we've conceded chances, let alone goals.

That bolded bit really gets me. Am finding some Liverpool fans these days to be super entitled and ungrateful. Do they not remember the fallow years under Houllier, Rafa and (God Help Us)... Hodgson? And it's not even just the 17 year olds on Twitter. Sometimes the supposedly "knowledgeable" talking heads on channels like Anfield Wrap and Redmen TV bug the shit out of me with their constant whining if Robertson or Trent or Gomez has to chase a ball. God forbid one of them gets nutmegged, even if the opposition player doesn't score. It's like we expect PERFECT football where we're camped out in the opposition's half for 90 minutes, and maybe only concede a couple corners. Even if we score 5 or 6 goals ourselves, God forbid an opposition player scores or we concede a penalty: "Sell X!!" "Bench Y!" "Z's not on VVD's level and we need a new CB!" "If we don't take care of ... [some overblown issue] I can't see us challenging Man City..." Blah Blah Blah.

Nowadays I don't watch as much actual football as I used to because I stopped subscribing to the TV sports packages. I watch us mostly. If we're in a close title race I might tune into the 5-Live when City are playing. Found myself this year after the restart watching Arsenal Fan channels during the FA Cup semis and final, for some bonkers reason I can't work out yet. My brother's an Arsenal fan but I never used to care about their fans. Now all of a sudden am riveted to way too much of their YouTube tripe. Got a serious crush on some bloke named 'Hughwhizzy'. (Just shoot me already  ).

[vblfc]

Maybe this whole heavy phase of our lives is just a challenge to navigate in general. There are so many harsh factors around these days that kind of put a cloud over things. Hard to see past Covid, Brexit, BLM, pending unemployment, climate change, Tory and Republican assholes in charge etc. There lots of big messes that will need cleaned up at some point. For me our matches themselves are a little oasis in the craziness. I do agree that the punditry, banter, corruption etc in the game make it harder to stomach in general and Sky coverage is hard to listen to with commentary basically down the toilet.  Thank goodness we are seeing this wonderful Klopp era which is a ray of sunshine in the middle of the craziness.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

and some have been spoiled by this team in recent years. Not anyone in this thread specifically but there are plenty of comments on this forum let alone that suggest that

''WE DIDN'T GET 100 POINTS ergo I'm disappointed''

[rob1966]

I stopped watching games live a few seasons ago. I get tense, get DT's and I feel like I may have a heart attack. I just watch highlights thesedays. I also do NOT keep an eye on live scores either.

I did watch the Barca game live as there was nothing to lose, boy that was tonic. But generally, I stay away before I croak.

When my depression and anxiety was at its peak, I could not cope with watching a Live game. The City away CL game I hid in the garage with the bikes until the kids came running in screaming we'd scored. Luckily by the time of the Barca games I was OK and I watched the final in Orlando n a bar packed with reds and loved it. The worries out void did kick me off this season though.

I've found as football has changed, I've started to despise the PL. I still love the game, I got plenty of enjoyment watching my lad train and play and kicking a ball with him, but the £75million plus transfer fees? Its £30 million now for a very average player, its fucking disgusting.

[afc tukrish]

When my depression and anxiety was at its peak, I could not cope with watching a Live game. The City away CL game I hid in the garage with the bikes until the kids came running in screaming we'd scored.

That's not at all funny, but I do get the giggles picturing them pouring all a-thunder into the garage...

[Mr Benn please?]

Maybe this whole heavy phase of our lives is just a challenge to navigate in general. There are so many harsh factors around these days that kind of put a cloud over things. Hard to see past Covid, Brexit, BLM, pending unemployment, climate change, Tory and Republican assholes in charge etc. There lots of big messes that will need cleaned up at some point. For me our matches themselves are a little oasis in the craziness. I do agree that the punditry, banter, corruption etc in the game make it harder to stomach in general and Sky coverage is hard to listen to with commentary basically down the toilet.  Thank goodness we are seeing this wonderful Klopp era which is a ray of sunshine in the middle of the craziness.

Yes, I was going to post exactly the same. I know exactly what the original poster means, and I have felt disengaged myself in the past, particularly towards the end of the previous ownership when Rafa was sacked, and then a bit later when Kenny was sacked too (I know with hindsight this was for the best but I couldn't get my head round it at the time). Have felt more engaged the last few years , obviously having an amazing team that wins stuff helps. Restarting after the shut down and winning the league deffo helped me feel more positive and less anxious about all of the other shite going on in the world. Ultimately, along with music it's my main obsession and I can't imagine life without watching the reds even though it's not the same with no fans in the ground.

[FilthyBloke]

I hear ya.
For me I took a break in 2005 (not to do with us winning the champions league) because I was working abroad doing silly hours and never had time to sit down and watch football. Before that, I could reel off every fixture, youth player, transfer targets and such. I loved it... but it was burning me out.

When I eventually came back to the uk, several years had passed and my interest just wasn’t the same. People I used to go to anfield with or watch it on tv are no longer with me and now I see watching football as the same interest as going to the cinema or theatre.

And then my wife and kids happened and everything between (highs and lows) and football was pushed down further. Now win, lose or draw and I’m not overly emotional about it either way.

So I’m guessing 2005 was for me where you are now. Chelsea new riches had ruined it. Football wasn’t the same. I felt ill with nerves watching games so much that unless we were 3-0 up I couldn’t enjoy it.

But I feel good now. I’m happy with my life. I’m not on social media and apart from this site and one other, I don’t spend much time chatting to folk.

So take a break. Or it’ll break you like Ivan Drago.

[Port_vale_lad]

I used to watch the vale home and away rain or shine, didnt miss a game in years.

When it wasnt match day i would be pouring through the sentinel reading about vale.

No news about vale would be on ceefax / interweb looking at latest scores / transfer news from all major leagues.

Bored of that would be watching old games on vhs / dvd or italian footy on 4, motd then motd2 on sunday, la liga highlights on sky, bt sport or sky sports news constantly playing in the background.

Then one day i just woke up and couldnt really give a shit about footie it was the weirdest thing.

[CHOPPER]

Has anyone else here got to the point where they just wanted to have a break from football? I dont know what it is but for some reason I've stopped enjoying it watching Liverpool. I can't explain why. I love Klopp and all the players but somehow I just feel a bit burnt out from it all. Does anyone else know this feeling?

Quilt

[Morgana]

and some have been spoiled by this team in recent years. Not anyone in this thread specifically but there are plenty of comments on this forum let alone that suggest that

''WE DIDN'T GET 100 POINTS ergo I'm disappointed''

That's exactly what am talking about.  . I was pretty pleased at the end of the season when Klopp got interviewed at Newcastle and he seemed so delighted with the 99 points. You could tell that the aim was never to break City's record but just to improve on the previous season's 97, and we did! In that moment I wondered if he was thinking "next season we could get 2 more points again to improve on this one." 

Had to slap myself. Whether it turns out that way or not, no fan should be going into a season expecting 100+ points. These are human beings, not machines. We have to allow for the fact that they are going to make mistakes and fall short sometimes. To do otherwise would just be stupid.

[Son of Spion]

I never tire of Liverpool and I'll always love the game itself, but I've long-since been tired of the circus around football. Mind you, the game has always had its problems, so that's nothing new. In the 70s and 80s in particular it was the cancer of hooliganism. Morons wanted to kill each other over a different coloured scarf and a different accent. That was so bad it put the game on its knees.

These days it's different baggage around the game, but it can still be very tiresome and destructive. We have sports washers coming in and inflating costs while laundering tawdry reputations. Referees who think they are rock stars. A media that's completely disappeared up its own arse and looks to make the news rather than report it. The endlessly boring desire to manufacture controversy. Inane punditry. The moronic nature of vast swathes of social media around the game. The obsession with money.

Now all these things and lots more I've not mentioned are symptoms of the sickness of society in general, and they manifest in and around football just as they do in other areas, but it often sees the football environment feeling toxic and very unhealthy. I worked out many years ago that if I wanted to remain in the heat of the kitchen, I had to learn how to filter out the negatives where and when I can control them. I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account. I steer clear of opposition forums, and especially the ones renowned for being full of unmoderated balloon-heads. I switch off when the punditry starts. If watching MotD I only tune in for our game then turn over on the final whistle. I also only bother watching our games now, because LFC and how we do is all I'm interested in. The rest, I try to filter out as just irritating background noise that offers nothing of interest.

To be honest, I think feeling burnt out is a very common feeling out there these days. That can impact on our enjoyment of anything. Life is currently very uncertain and it has been all year and will continue to be for quite some time to come. It takes it's toll on everyone in one way or another. So many people feel jaded at the moment. As far as the football goes, we've been on the highest of highs at the same time that we've all been going through some very real lows. Emotionally, this can knock the stuffing out of anyone. After such an injection of adrenaline, there will come something of a crash afterwards. With Liverpool, it seems like we ended a 30-year wait for the title whilst also in the midst of being on a wider-world rollercoaster of worry and emotion. Not only that, it seems like we only had five minutes to process it all before we had to start all over again. So, no wonder some will feel burn out in the air. I'd say that's pretty normal given the circumstances.

In a normal year you would lift the title in May then have what feels like an eternity before August comes around and you go again. So plenty of time to bask and reflect in the glory of it all. Lots of time to de-stress and simply enjoy being champions. This time around it feels like five minutes before we had to go again. That's a bit like finally peaking Everest, only to be told you not only have to descend straight away, but also have to summit K2 the very next day.

[Ghost Town]

No, at the moment I'm enjoying watching us more than ever and have no compulsion to take a break. On the contrary I wish we could play every day. This congested season where we'll be playing every few days at times may not be good for the players - I understand that - but it'll be great for me as a viewer.

Mind you, I only really make a point of watching Liverpool games. and I do not engage with or consume any sports media or social media, and never really have. Never had Sky or any other sports package, never done Twatter or Facebook or any of that shite, never read the UK sports press, never watched Soccer AM or anything similar nor paid the slightest attention to ''banter culture''.

About the only things I might engage with is listening to the radio and watching MotD very occasionally.

This means that I seem to have, thankfully, missed out on so much of the crap that seems, understandably, to be causing angst and stress for so many.

[Zoomers]

I used to enjoy watching the odd game out of Liverpool's matches, but that's slowly died out over the past few years. I can no longer sit through other games to see any of the other leagues or champions league, etc. I just don't enjoy it anymore.

I will always enjoy watching us play.

[Rush 82]

Nope. Enjoying watching our lads.

The transfer circus and endless griping from people who are supposed to be supporters does my head in though.

[Hendollama]

Has anyone else here got to the point where they just wanted to have a break from football? I dont know what it is but for some reason I've stopped enjoying it watching Liverpool. I can't explain why. I love Klopp and all the players but somehow I just feel a bit burnt out from it all. Does anyone else know this feeling?

Yeah. I stopped after last years league was done and have remained almost free from any news about football.
I thought maybe taking a break might be good for me considering how much time i spent on it. But honestly, this has been no different to the time I watched footy. Miserable watching footy and miserable not knowing whats going on in footy.

[killer-heels]

I hate this football without fans, its utter shite.

But burnt out watching this team? No chance. Its not like you have to run around.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The only problem I have with no fans at the game is that I'm not at the game.

For me, being at the game is what I do, so that's the game. I only do home games thesedays but that's the match experience.


So. When I watch it on TV, it's always shite compared to actually going to the match, so the absence or presence of fans doesn't really make me care any less.

[Crosby Nick]

Yes it was, but I didn't enjoy it.

I'm too invested in the result and can't actually enjoy the spectacle.

That’s just a side effect of us being so good. It’s easier to enjoy a match and feel a bit frustrated with a draw when you’re a bit crap or just going for top 4 compared to us in the last two seasons where any dropped points can feel season defining.

That does get exhausting after a while and I get where you’re coming from by the way, I get a bit like that too now, especially in home games where it feels like we should always do (and we almost always do!).

[Petadroli]

I feel like the lockdown was the break from football many people needed. Watching a game on TV now is much worse because the fans are so important for the flow of the game. I think games have become more sterile and there is sometimes such a lack of intensity... However I enjoy watching LFC massively. It's just such a great team. Any other matches I simply can't be bothered though - before the lockdown I would also watch an Spurs-Everton for example out of interest. Now I almost fell asleep during the highlights.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

That’s just a side effect of us being so good. It’s easier to enjoy a match and feel a bit frustrated with a draw when you’re a bit crap or just going for top 4 compared to us in the last two seasons where any dropped points can feel season defining.

That does get exhausting after a while and I get where you’re coming from by the way, I get a bit like that too now, especially in home games where it feels like we should always do (and we almost always do!).

Ahh.. The days of going away to the likes of Southampton, West Ham, Wolves and Leicester and thinking a draw would be a good result.

[WEST HAM PAUL]

My opinions on this:

A) Sport generally has a 'Who gives a shit?' vibe about it given the world situation right now. You can't be kept in a state of constant worry and stress about a pandemic for months and then all of a sudden be anxious about who lifts the FA Cup. It's small fry. Maybe none of it ever mattered in the first place. Furthermore, if you can't go to the ground, or even to the pub to watch the game in a communal setting, it's value is reduced even further and it just becomes a 90 minute TV show.

B) Athlete wages have spiraled in to utterly obscene levels that distance the players from the fans. No problem with players picking up a decent wedge for their work but it's hard to even fathom some of the payslips even in the Liverpool squad. Transfer fees fall under that category too. As a society, I feel like there is a mass economic awakening happening right now globally and bundled with that is the impossibility of being okay with £70m+ transfer fees when there is massive economic turmoil and homelessness and poverty are growing. As my own understanding of world economics and social inequality grows, so does my disgust at the transfer fees in football.

C) Way too much football on, and simultaneously the wrong type of games. League Cup & Nations League could both disappear in my opinion and it would actually make the fixture list better. I actually don't mind the idea of the expanded Club World Cup because Liverpool vs Flamengo showed that there is a novelty and intrigue to playing against teams from around the world like that. Aston Villa at Burton in a Cup that almost no one cares about just feels totally pointless to the neutral by contrast. I would probably give more time to River Plate vs Dortmund, or Corinthians vs Barcelona.

D) The over commercialization and simultaneous politicizing of the game makes it feel like just another extension of cooperate media and not it's own entity. Football for me was always a welcome escape from the day to day news and that feeling is totally gone now. Man City & PSG don't even feel like football clubs in the old sense. So rather than it being Northern Red team face local Northern Blue team, it is now about international politics and sportswashing blah blah blah. It's exhausting. Football and even the advertisements are now about ethics and social change instead of being about kicking the fucking ball around. I have plenty enough on my plate without having to be worrying about whether Arab billionaires are torturing journalists via secret police.

E) I don't know how it is for yourself or many others who feel this way, but my personal life is in such crisis pretty much all of the time at the moment. My own health is poor both physically with my heart playing up and my mental health playing up with depression and OCD for most of this year, finances too since I have been without regular income since March, socially much more isolated than before, single. So for me, why, when I have massive financial worries, massive health worries, reduced access to mental health services for on going depression, no regular job or obvious way out of this mess, increased social isolation; so why would I give a fuck about whether some big rich Dutch guy who earns more in a week than I have in my entire life lifts a metal pot or not? It doesn't change anything for me other than offering a distraction and some sporting excitement for an hour some weeks.

F) Rule changes and the apparent growth of simulation contribute to it being a very different experience these days. The Europa League final had me laughing and shaking my head as to how fucking stupid it was. Players screaming on the ground when they literally haven't been touched every two minutes. Every single time the whistle was blown. Without crowd, hearing the screams of the players and then a replay showing that the opponents boot was 10 inches away is just silly. Diving has always been around as long as I have been watching football, but the referees these days seem content to willingly fall for every trick in the book every time. Makes the sport as a whole look pointless. VAR then adds to this charade as you never know if you can celebrate a goal now. Every time a goal is scored now my reaction is "Oh okay it's in, but will it stand?" Takes a lot of the emotion out of it for me.

I used to watch pretty much every match, and then also follow other European leagues too. Especially La Liga, where I would watch potentially even more of it than I did the Premier League at one point. I will still log in to here with my morning/lunchtime coffee, and discuss the game with my mates, but I am not going to expend emotional energy on it other than it being something to have on in the background.

Anyway, I suppose watching less football means more free time to spend on bettering myself and working on the things I care about, so it's probably a good thing that football is occupying less and less of my life.

Agree with some of your points and hope your health gets better


But your Point C what Ive highlighted 100% disagree

You speak as a fan of a top 4 club who plays in the top tournaments .

Personally I would rather watch Aston Villa v Burton Albion than Liverpool v Flamengo or Corinthians etc etc . I couldn't be more bored and give less of a shit.

Dont take it personally . Theoretically speaking you live in and shop in Harrods I live and shop in Aldi in football terms and the vast majority of clubs are the same as me not the elite few.

The World Club championship whatever its called now I've not looked but would it be safe to say only 2-4 English clubs have ever been in it and the other 88 odd will never be in it plus it has the usual Europe elite . Lucky if on average 10 clubs are interested globally and I'm being generous

Now yes the League Cup in Harrods is worthless but to an Aldi shopper it would be quite nice. Even though in recent years it is virtually always won by the top 4-6 clubs as they have the squads to use. Unfortunately us Aldi shoppers there managers don't want to stock the shelves and are happy to go out of the competition to stay in the premier league

Ive said it before to a lot of fans the Champions League has become a bore fest . Ok great for the elite few but the vast majority the last 20 years have been the same old teams . Obviously we discuss football with our friends who can often be supporters of the same club so it feels we all love it and we have banter with other fans who's clubs might be or get in it (Of course if a miracle happened West Ham got it in it Id be interested fleetingly after a quick exit) but know even a freak qualification doesn't mean the next 10 years in the competition .

Look how much Man City have spent and I think have made one semi final in 10 years . Fans aren't jealous or aspire to that as supporters of big clubs might think because what happened to Man City financially is pie in the sky to virtually any club globally . They know it won't happen as there are probably 2 or 3 clubs in England at best that given vast financial investment could go places that aren't in the so called top 4


Any way back on topic lol 

Football has become a chore at times . If you support Liverpool and you need a break imagine the rest

 

[IanZG]

/snip

I think this is a fair point. The CL should be interesting to all viewers, not just the ones whose club is in the competition and there are very few interesting games before the quarter final stage of the competition. Also agree on the Club World Cup point, I had fun watching it last season, but absolutely no chance I'd watch it when Real or Barca were playing there. And if the new expanded version of the competition could disappear from the face of the planet, I'd be all for it, even though Liverpool would be playing there. It's just a pointless waste of rest time between seasons.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Ive said it before to a lot of fans the Champions League has become a bore fest . Ok great for the elite few but the vast majority the last 20 years have been the same old teams . Obviously we discuss football with our friends who can often be supporters of the same club so it feels we all love it and we have banter with other fans who's clubs might be or get in it (Of course if a miracle happened West Ham got it in it Id be interested fleetingly after a quick exit) but know even a freak qualification doesn't mean the next 10 years in the competition .

Look how much Man City have spent and I think have made one semi final in 10 years . Fans aren't jealous or aspire to that as supporters of big clubs might think because what happened to Man City financially is pie in the sky to virtually any club globally . They know it won't happen as there are probably 2 or 3 clubs in England at best that given vast financial investment could go places that aren't in the so called top 4

I actually think the Champions League has been relatively diverse over the last 20 years. Yes, you are always going to get some of the "elite" clubs in the latter stages like Barcelona, Madrid, Juventus and Bayern, but there have also been a fair few surprises and new clubs coming to the fore. For example, some clubs that have reached at least the semi final since 2000:

2020 - Lyon and Leipzig
2019 - Ajax and Tottenham
2018 - Roma
2017 - Atletico and Monaco
2016 - Atletico
2014 - Atletico
2013 - Dortmund
2011 - Schalke
2010 - Lyon
2006 - Villarreal
2005 - PSV
2004 - Monaco, Porto, Deportivo
2002 - Leverkusen
2001 - Leeds, Valencia

On top of that, you've also had clubs such as ourselves being surprise winners in 2005, disappearing in 2010 and then coming back with a bang from 2018. The likes of AC Milan, Inter, Arsenal and Man United have gone from being regular contenders to not qualifying at all, whilst the likes of City and PSG, as disgusting as they are, have gone from never qualifying to being potential winners.

Malaga, Leicester, Atalanta, Seville, Benfica, Wolfsburg, Galatasaray, Shakhtar, APOEL, Marseille, Benfica, CSKA, Fenerbache and Panathanikos have all made it to the quarter finals. 

In 2000, no one would be shocked if the semi finals consisted of say Real Madrid, AC Milan, Man United and Bayern Munich, whereas now, two of those clubs would be a relatively big surprise. Conversely, a line up of PSG, Man City, Atletico Madrid and Dortmund would have been unthinkable back then, whereas now no would really bat an eye lid.

[WEST HAM PAUL]

I actually think the Champions League has been relatively diverse over the last 20 years. Yes, you are always going to get some of the "elite" clubs in the latter stages like Barcelona, Madrid, Juventus and Bayern, but there have also been a fair few surprises and new clubs coming to the fore. For example, some clubs that have reached at least the semi final since 2000:

2020 - Lyon and Leipzig
2019 - Ajax and Tottenham
2018 - Roma
2017 - Atletico and Monaco
2016 - Atletico
2014 - Atletico
2013 - Dortmund
2011 - Schalke
2010 - Lyon
2006 - Villarreal
2005 - PSV
2004 - Monaco, Porto, Deportivo
2002 - Leverkusen
2001 - Leeds, Valencia

On top of that, you've also had clubs such as ourselves being surprise winners in 2005, disappearing in 2010 and then coming back with a bang from 2018. The likes of AC Milan, Inter, Arsenal and Man United have gone from being regular contenders to not qualifying at all, whilst the likes of City and PSG, as disgusting as they are, have gone from never qualifying to being potential winners.

Malaga, Leicester, Atalanta, Seville, Benfica, Wolfsburg, Galatasaray, Shakhtar, APOEL, Marseille, Benfica, CSKA, Fenerbache and Panathanikos have all made it to the quarter finals. 

In 2000, no one would be shocked if the semi finals consisted of say Real Madrid, AC Milan, Man United and Bayern Munich, whereas now, two of those clubs would be a relatively big surprise. Conversely, a line up of PSG, Man City, Atletico Madrid and Dortmund would have been unthinkable back then, whereas now no would really bat an eye lid.

I see your point but really you could just be describing the FA Cup . In the last 20 years its been dominated by the top 4-5 clubs and as with any competition you may get the odd anomaly like a Portsmouth or Wigan but thats it and it could be argued what they did spend has come at a cost to both clubs in time  . Leicester in the premier league

Plus you get a few lower premier league or even lower league have made the semi finals. Ultimately money talks and those that have the bigger squads and better talent normally are the one that win the competition


20 clubs out of 80 in those semi finals . Some of those aren't small clubs and through their domestic league not being that strong in depth they are always in Europe most of the time , The other 3 are the clubs you would expect form a list of about 10 that would make the Semi Final.. Roughly 3/4 as you'd expect

You support Liverpool a club with a rich European history so were never going to see the Champions league in the same light .

I remember back in the mid to late 90's being quite interested . Having grown up with not to much European football live it was fascinating to watch Man Utd v Barcelona, Bayern Munich v Juventus, Real Madrid v Atletico Madrid etc  not much as changed in the intervening 20-25 years. Plus the gap of trying to get into Europe is wider now than it ever has been for other clubs outside the top 6.   

I got back to my comment on Manchester City . Without hope you have nothing

They have spent over a billion pound or more in 10 years and still not won it . What hope is there for others (plus to take interest).

Sky have done a great Job marketing this competition squeezing every thing they can to make it exciting when the group stages are possibly one of the most boring matches going with more dead rubbers now than ever.

I have to be honest as my interest wained I think Ive watched about 2 or 3 champions league games in the last 5-6 years and they would be a final just to watch it

[Ghost Town]

Forgot to add to my post that football without fans is bloody terrible. I always try and opt for a stream with crowd noise because even though I know it's fake, and even though it's really nothing like real, spontaneous crowd noise, it at least attempts to analogue the true football experience.

Think if there's one good that has come out from BCD it's this underlining of exactly how crucial fans are to a match; how much we had been taken for granted. Maybe it could give fans a bit more leverage going forward, if we know how to use it? I don't know...

[ToneLa]

Has anyone else here got to the point where they just wanted to have a break from football? I dont know what it is but for some reason I've stopped enjoying it watching Liverpool. I can't explain why. I love Klopp and all the players but somehow I just feel a bit burnt out from it all. Does anyone else know this feeling?

my interest for the game is low, no fans = no atmos = hard to watch

But I love LFC

Suppose it's always the case for me though that I'm a bigger fan of Liverpool than I am of the game per se (especially the modern state of it)

[Fromola]

I feel like the lockdown was the break from football many people needed. Watching a game on TV now is much worse because the fans are so important for the flow of the game. I think games have become more sterile and there is sometimes such a lack of intensity... However I enjoy watching LFC massively. It's just such a great team. Any other matches I simply can't be bothered though - before the lockdown I would also watch an Spurs-Everton for example out of interest. Now I almost fell asleep during the highlights.

Although it's sterile, from a TV point of view i'd prefer no fans at a lot of Premier League games because of how annoying the fans actually are. United fans chanting about us all game, City fans being City fans, Evertonians booing at everything and shouting for handballs constantly, inane chants about libraries and shall we sing a song for you. I've been able to watch more games without muting the TV (Martin Tyler permitting). I need the fake crowd noise though (it's awful without even the artificial noise with just the players shouting), but given the shite fans chant it's preferable to the actual thing in some ways.

That's just from a TV point of view though. Watching your team live is what it's all about for many.

[Son of Spion]

Although it's sterile, from a TV point of view i'd prefer no fans at a lot of Premier League games because of how annoying the fans actually are. United fans chanting about us all game, City fans being City fans, Evertonians booing at everything and shouting for handballs constantly, inane chants about libraries and shall we sing a song for you. I've been able to watch more games without muting the TV (Martin Tyler permitting). I need the fake crowd noise though (it's awful without even the artificial noise with just the players shouting), but given the shite fans chant it's preferable to the actual thing in some ways.

That's just from a TV point of view though. Watching your team live is what it's all about for many.

I agree with a lot of that. I think the virus has shown just how important the fans are to the game itself and the spectacle of the game, and I really do miss our crowd. The game against Leeds would have been epic with a crowd in attendance. It deserved a full house to witness it. I also believe we'd have won more convincingly with our crowd behind us too.

Having said that, I don't for a moment miss opposition crowds who, in the main, are desperately sad, inane and boring. I've not missed the lower league songbook for a second. I've not missed songs about death, tragedy, disaster, poverty and hatred in the slightest. I've not missed certain fanbases obsession with Liverpool in the slightest bit either.  I've not missed the twisted and contorted faces in a Goodison Derby crowd one bit. Every cloud, eh.

[UntouchableLuis]

Part of the excitement of football is the build up and knowing you're going the match sometimes - without fans it's definitely lost something. I'm personally not a fan of every game being on television- I understand why that's the case at the minute but for me it was great when you had 2 games on a Saturday on telly, 2 on Sunday and a Monday night then 5 x 3 pms or even 6 x 3 pms and no Monday night game. It meant that MOTD was also something to look forward to having not seen most of the weekend's football. Now I'm not as bothered if I miss a few games over a weekend. I'll always watch all our games near enough but I think as I've got older it's no longer acceptable to stay in all weekend and watch every game! Without fans I'm not really prepared to sit down and watch the likes of Leicester vs Southampton or West Ham vs Newcastle.

The shambles of VAR combined with covid saw the game in real danger IMO.

Personally I can't wait for full attendance back at a big European night again. For me that's the pinnacle.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I might be done with it.

I'm not enjoying games and have far too much fear during the match.

Results are impacting far too much on my life.

[Jookie]

I might be done with it.

I'm not enjoying games and have far too much fear during the match.

Results are impacting far too much on my life.

I had this a bit in 2013/14. Even though we were winning and going for a title with a massively fun to watch side, I wasn't enjoying it. The result was all that mattered and i was finding it hard to watch games. The blow of losing that league title was massive too. Took me a year or so to really re-engage with it all. I think the transition from match goer to armchair didn't help me. It's a much more enjoyable experience watching games from inside the ground than at home on TV. For some reason it's a whole lot less stressful too.

To be honest, by the 2015/16 season. I was back more involved with it all. Not because we were getting better. Just a few wider life things and some distance made me realise that it's meant to be enjoyable. I think my son growing up and getting into footy made me realise that I couldn't be angst ridden whilst watching games alongside him. I'm still nervous before big games, elated when we win and upset when we lose but I'm defo enjoying it more. Even after last night's defeat, I just had a few beers and watched a film with the missus. In the past I'd have tortured  myself about it and been down in the dumps the following week.

In terms of modern football, I don't get too hung up about it. Things change. Sometimes for the worse. Sometimes for the better. Having access to football across the world is great. The narrowing of competition and competitiveness across some leagues is poo thoughr. The standard of play and players in our domestic league is brilliant. The amount of 'fans' with a voice on social media who don't understand the culture of the club and it's fanbase isn't a good thing.

[rob1966]

What shocked me today is we got properly twatted yesterday and I don't give a shit about the result. I'm pissed off a bit at so called supporters slagging the keeper like the spoilt brats from other clubs, but that is it. I think its because the monkey is off our backs, we won the title again and thats been enough for me.

[Lusty]

I might be done with it.

I'm not enjoying games and have far too much fear during the match.

Results are impacting far too much on my life.

Honestly think last night proved the opposite for me.  Maybe it's the monkey off the back with the league win last year, but I was just laughing as the Villa goals went in.  It's going to be a mad season so we might as well enjoy the ride!

Think a few years ago I'd have taken a result like that quite badly and I would have spent today arguing with bellends on the Internet about it, but that's not me anymore.  You've just got to avoid getting sucked into the bits of the Internet that will drag you down.

[Jshooters]

Honestly think last night proved the opposite for me.  Maybe it's the monkey off the back with the league win last year, but I was just laughing as the Villa goals went in.  It's going to be a mad season so we might as well enjoy the ride!

Think a few years ago I'd have taken a result like that quite badly and I would have spent today arguing with bellends on the Internet about it, but that's not me anymore.  You've just got to avoid getting sucked into the bits of the Internet that will drag you down.

This is exactly my experience/feelings

[JC the Messiah]

Last night was weird, but I'm not as upset about it as I would be, if say, I was a United fan.

It was an aberration, a one-off.

I think if we'd lost 3-1 it might have been worse. Which is obviously strange. But that result last night is very strange indeed.

A lot of fans were getting their heads in a wobble last season, what if we didn't win, what if the wheels fell off, etc. It's all about enjoying the journey, as the win and triumph is fleeting and passes, and you're on to the next season to do it all again.

But if you can't enjoy watching Liverpool play under Klopp, then maybe a break from it will do you good.

[Son of Spion]

What shocked me today is we got properly twatted yesterday and I don't give a shit about the result. I'm pissed off a bit at so called supporters slagging the keeper like the spoilt brats from other clubs, but that is it. I think its because the monkey is off our backs, we won the title again and thats been enough for me.

I must admit, I lost some sleep last night after the result. Having said that, I/we've been there before. I remember being shell-shocked when one of our greatest ever sides got twatted 5-1 at Villa in a title winning season. I also remember us getting smashed by Coventry.

Thing is, these things happen. Support a club like ours long enough and you'll see us make history in many ways. We've absolutely spanked numerous clubs in our time, but once in a blue moon we will get done too. We've annihilated many a team, so on the rare occasions we get it back, we have to take it on the chin and move on.

Yesterday, Villa's stars all aligned at once, whereas ours were way off. It's a bizarre, crazy anomaly. Today, we move on...

This season will be something of an anomaly in itself. The two biggest clubs in the UK got smashed yesterday. Abu Dhabi got smashed the other week at home. There are players out with covid, no crowds in stadiums, players who normally wilt Infront of a hostile crowd now playing with freedom. Over the whole season, quality will tell, but we will see plenty of bizarre stuff along the way.

At half time last night I was fully convinced Villa would bag at least seven against us, so I'm just glad it never hit double figures. Sometimes, you can just see what's coming but can't do a thing about it.

[Cu Chulainn]

My relationship with the game has very much changed over the last year. I used to be obsessed with football, would watch loads of games across the top 3 flights in England, would make plans around being able to watch Liverpool, be thinking days beforehand about the game, and be miserable for days if we didn't get a good result.

Now? I haven't watched a non-Liverpool game since before the lockdown and doubt I will any time soon. I didn't watch most of our post-lockdown games last season; it's just not the same without fans, I don't enjoy it much at all and don't go out of my way to watch it. Losses don't bother me much any more, and the flip side is, neither does winning. I was pleased when we won the league but didn't feel anything like the euphoria I expected to feel for all these years.

Not sure why I've come to feel this way; possibly just getting older and having more responsibilities in life. I love Klopp and the players and the football we've served up has been beyond belief. But it is what it is.