Topic: Racism in Football

[RyanBabel19]

Because I think booing hom after this length of time is a bit childish. Nothing to do with his skin colour and I get that he and his agent acted like pricks but how long ago was it?

You do realise its probably continuing now BECAUSE he seems to play badly whenever we boo him

[jillcwhomever]

You do realise its probably continuing now BECAUSE he seems to play badly whenever we boo him

There could be a number of reasons as to why he doesn't play well against us, claiming it's probably because we boo him if just pie in the sky. I'd rather we spent time getting behind the team backing the players who are with us now. They deserve our support.

[Solomon Grundy]

There could be a number of reasons as to why he doesn't play well against us, claiming it's probably because we boo him if just pie in the sky. I'd rather we spent time getting behind the team backing the players who are with us now. They deserve our support.

You can boo a player and support our team wholeheartedly as well. We've done it countless times in big games and it's unnerved the opposition. And I believe it definitely has had an effect on Raheem. So I don't see a problem with it, as long as it isn't racist.

[RyanBabel19]

There could be a number of reasons as to why he doesn't play well against us, claiming it's probably because we boo him if just pie in the sky. I'd rather we spent time getting behind the team backing the players who are with us now. They deserve our support.

Obviously he doesn't only have bad games because we boo him, I obviously don't mean it as literally as that. I mean people are likely going to continue doing it if it seems to be affecting his play in a game against us

When we boo a side we are playing and they seem to give the ball away loads and fuck up normal passes, its likely the pressing on the pitch a lot more than the boos, we don't stop giving them a hard time though

[Lycan]

I remember Clinton Morrison getting all cocky about Michael Owen missing some chances in the 1sg leg of a league cup semi fiinal. 2ng leg at Anfield came around and the crowd was on Clintons back all night. He had an absolute stinker. Fresh air shots in the box and everything. He later admitted it was the pressure of the Anfield crowd that put him off his game.

[DangerScouse]

I've seen and heard some vile stuff from our lot too. Blackburn away 2011 comes to mind, while Diouf was giving it large to the away end a fair amount of racist comments was hurled his way.  After that game, and 60+ year old woman confronted a bunch of scouse lads in a coach car park calling out them for racists taunts and chants during the game.

It's not a us vs them thing, it's a society thing.

Every club has them. Chelsea away in the cl (4-4), a few c*nts in our end calling Babel a black bastard.

[sinnermichael]

Sterling has a point. Just look at Milner and Sturridge with us for example.

Both expressed unhappiness about playing out of position. One was portrayed as being an honest pro where as the other was reported as having an attitude problem.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Have Chelsea said anything about this incident?

[robgomm]

I think the main reason Sterling struggles against us is the same reason Salah has blanked against Spurs, Chelsea, City and Arsenal this season. Those games are tight and tricky. There are fewer chances and it's harder for individuals to shine. It's where this myth develops about players not doing it in big games comes from - Messi can't win a World Cup on his own with Argentina and he's the best footballer probably ever. There's a reason Djimi Traore has a Champions League medal, a League Cup medal and FA Cup medal and Alan Shearer has one Premier League title and that's it and it's not because Traore is a better individual than Shearer.

[soxfan]

The treatment he gets when he visits Anfield clearly bothers him to the extent he's never been at his brilliant best. Childish or not, that's a definite plus for us mate.

I agree. Everyone talks about "Fortress Anfield". Well, that's shorthand for "cheer loudly for your players and make the opposing players feel very uncomfortable". As long as we are not hurling things at players or abusing them verbally about their skin color, religion, or nationality it's fair game.

So let's not compare making Sterling feel uncomfortable with some "you're greedy"/"you suck" chants to throwing racist insults at him. Huge difference. The latter should 100% result in bans and arrests.

[Lycan]

Have Chelsea said anything about this incident?

They've said they're investigating the footage.

[Johns_Barn]

It 100% is in my opinion

I still don't really hear it often at all

They still push black inferiority hard in pretty much every sector whether that is sporting or beyond. See Danny Murphy's thick headed idiotic comments on Naby Keita.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I agree. Everyone talks about "Fortress Anfield". Well, that's shorthand for "cheer loudly for your players and make the opposing players feel very uncomfortable". As long as we are not hurling things at players or abusing them verbally about their skin color, religion, or nationality it's fair game.

So let's not compare making Sterling feel uncomfortable with some "you're greedy"/"you suck" chants to throwing racist insults at him. Huge difference. The latter should 100% result in bans and arrests.

Exactly.

If we’re saying that we can’t boo Sterling anymore, then we also can’t boo the opposition next time they have a bit of possession and we’re playing the home leg of a Champions League semi-final. Let’s make them feel right at home instead. When they’re bus arrives, let’s give them flowers.

[Johns_Barn]

A lot of people aren't as enlightened mate. At Sunday League this morning I heard the following:

Spoiler

Chink, Paki, Nigger, Wog, rainbow team, black bastard and a few others to boot.

[close]

And one of our lads left last week and in the whatsapp group he said it was cos he was going home to sort his mental health out. Loads of comments today about "Player X can't be here today 'cos hes stuck in the rafters" etc

Then I heard comments about how their black winger was supposed to be fast because he's black, and when one of our players did a knee high tackle on the player who I think was Chinese, someone said "thats 'cos he brought him beef chow mein last night when he wanted chicken".

It's completely normal to some people, they're absolute Neanderthals. I don't know if it's the primal nature of football or if it's just that society isn't as nice as we'd like to think it is, but it's sickening and it's nowhere near close to being dealt with.

It is a global system that plays out in the nine areas of human activity. It is a group participation activity and never exists in a vacuum. Look up David Lammy's report on the judiciary for the disparity. Look up suspension and expulsion rates in school; when two kids commit the same infraction one is punished far more harshly than the other. It is everywhere... Even porn.

[kennedy81]

Have Chelsea said anything about this incident?

Official statement:

'We are aware of reports and video footage. We will investigate the matter fully and will take the strongest possible action where necessary.'

[Lycan]

I agree. Everyone talks about "Fortress Anfield". Well, that's shorthand for "cheer loudly for your players and make the opposing players feel very uncomfortable". As long as we are not hurling things at players or abusing them verbally about their skin color, religion, or nationality it's fair game.

So let's not compare making Sterling feel uncomfortable with some "you're greedy"/"you suck" chants to throwing racist insults at him. Huge difference. The latter should 100% result in bans and arrests.

If people try and tell me booing players or getting on their backs as soon as they touch the ball doesn't affect them, they're talking shit. It's part of what the '12th man' is. Think back to the CL semi- final in 2005 against Chelsea. Every time a Chelsea player touched the ball the whole ground was on their backs. Chelsea players admitted after the game the atmosphere unnerved them. They couldn't concentrate, couldn't hear themselves think. So booing players and getting on their backs does work. It's worked against Raheem and it's worked against countless other players throughout the history of the game as well. Another game involving us was Beşiktaş away in the CL. They were a pretty poor side to be honest, but it was that much of an intimidating atmosphere we ended up getting beat 2-1(I think). But when we got them back to Anfield we hammered them 8-0.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Because I think booing hom after this length of time is a bit childish. Nothing to do with his skin colour and I get that he and his agent acted like pricks but how long ago was it?

Oh do fuck off. He fucked us over. We boo him

Get over it.

[redgriffin73]

They still push black inferiority hard in pretty much every sector whether that is sporting or beyond. See Danny Murphy's thick headed idiotic comments on Naby Keita.

What's that twat said about Naby?

[Hazell]

They still push black inferiority hard in pretty much every sector whether that is sporting or beyond. See Danny Murphy's thick headed idiotic comments on Naby Keita.

What's that twat said about Naby?

Not sure but I remember Leon Osman saying something when it was announced we had signed him for this season that made me think he hadn't watched him and come up with his conclusions based on him being black.

[Johns_Barn]

I find it mad there are some people who think that way, some peoples explanations only make it worse and its a large part of the reason i only browse social media like twitter, some of the stuff you see on there is despicable and its terrifying what some will say when they think no one can find them.

The worrying thing for me is that outside elements seem to dictate how these things are handled. For me if you say something racist on those kinds of platforms you should be banned for life, same for doing it at a game of football or other places. Its become more and more common for things that are distinctly wrong to be defended with 'everyone makes mistakes'. Social media and gaming is huge right now and I regularly see hugely popular gamers say the N word, offer the generic apology and continue to be able to stream games/make youtube videos, make huge piles of money for it and have thousands if not millions of young easily influenced kids and young adults follow them and defend their mistakes with the same 'everyone makes mistakes' stuff. Money seems to be a big thing for large companies dealing with these kinds of things and that something like that is even a consideration when racism is the issue at hand is frightening

These guys have a strong overlap with the INCEL brigade. Many black folk either just don't play online or play with sound muted due to the horrific language every waking second.

[thejbs]

Booing a player is one thing. Braying abuse like rabid animals while they take a throw-in, is pretty ugly and needless. Makes fans look like the stereotypical thugs some believe they are.

[Johns_Barn]

What's that twat said about Naby?

Full article here:https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/danny-murphys-naby-keita-comments-are-everything-that-is-wrong-with-punditry-156399


Here is a quote:

Here are the exact quotes, you might want to sit down for this:
“I’m not sure (about Naby Keita), from what I’ve seen. Subconsciously you can look like you’ve downed tools when you’re protecting yourself a little bit, I wouldn’t judge him on that. I don’t know him well enough to say that.

“What I would say is he’s obviously very athletic, got a lot of qualities – a bit like Jordan Henderson has. Professional, good athlete, does his job really, really well.

“But he isn’t creative enough if you want to challenge for the title and the Champions League. Someone like Gerrard, Souness, Alonso, Mascherano – these type of players."

Okay, so, where do we start? Firstly, let's go to Murphy's suggestion that Keita has downed tools, shall we? Looking at Keita's statistics for the season, you might think he has a point. He has two goals and one assist in 12 Bundesliga starts, and six goals and one assist in 21 starts in all competitions.

This isn't amazing, sure, but that is to negate the form that RB Leipzig themselves are in. Yes, they sit two points shy of second place in Germany, but this is a side widely perceived to have been pretty knackered prior to the winter break, with many observers suggesting that their intense style of football has caught up with them.

It is also a team which has just played its inaugural Champion League campaign, so lower performance levels are surely not unusual.

"Very athletic...."

Next up, we go to Murphy's second line. "Very athletic" is a phrase used by many pundits to described a very specific type of player, the likes of Paul Pogba, Romelu Lukaku and now Keita. Players who are so often praised purely for their physicality than for their technical prowess.

In place of "very athletic" you will also likely see the words "powerful", "pacey" and "raw" used.

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Comparing Keita to Henderson though is extremely odd. Keita is a dynamo in midfield, weaving in and out of tackles with the sort of technical ability that the former Sunderland man could only dream of.

Henderson is a very decent player, but he is a different player to Keita and to compare the two illustrates a simple lack of knowledge.

Lastly, and most deliciously of all, is Murphy's insinuation that Keita - a player who scored eight and assisted seven in the Bundesliga last season - is not creative enough.

The coup de grace
This is ludicrous enough, but Murphy then pulls out his coup de grace and quite possibly the greatest piece of sporting satire the world has ever seen: he says that Liverpool need more creative players like Javier Mascherano.

Remember Javier Mascherano? That swashbuckling centre-midfielder who skipped past tackles, dummying and shimmying his way through embarrassed defences while pitching in with ten goals a season? No, of course you don't, because that Javier Mascherano doesn't exist.

Here Murphy betrays his lack of knowledge by not only claiming that Keita isn't a creative player but by inventing attributes for a player who never possessed them, purely to prove his misguided point.

Herein lies the problem with certain sections of modern punditry. Some pundits would rather embark on a long-winded and utterly fabricated account of a footballer, rewriting history as they go so as to beef up the argument, rather than simply admit that they've watched very little of the player in question and, as such, cannot in all good conscience offer a clear assessment of his abilities.

Unfortunately in football, as in much of life these days, it appears more acceptable to say something unbelievably uninformed and stupid, than to simply admit you don't have all the facts.

When knowing what you're talking about is essentially the brunt of your job, that's inexcusable.

[Son of Spion]

I agree. Everyone talks about "Fortress Anfield". Well, that's shorthand for "cheer loudly for your players and make the opposing players feel very uncomfortable". As long as we are not hurling things at players or abusing them verbally about their skin color, religion, or nationality it's fair game.

So let's not compare making Sterling feel uncomfortable with some "you're greedy"/"you suck" chants to throwing racist insults at him. Huge difference. The latter should 100% result in bans and arrests.

I have to agree. Football is not just physical, it's psychological too.
The old Spion Kop earned its reputation, in part, because of the effect it had on the psychology and performance of both our own side and the opposition. Basically, the Kop could make us feel ten feet tall and simultaneously make the opposition crumble.

In many ways, it's the loss of this in the modern era that we often lament on sites like this from time to time. I don't see a problem with putting the shits up Sterling when he plays us. It gives us a psychological edge, and so long as it's not racist or sinister / illegal in other ways then all's fair, really. It's just pantomime at the end of the day

You have to be careful with it too. Some players thrive on it and become inspired by it. With some, it pays not to poke the bear. Others, well they just crumble.



Racism has no place, though. Those scumbags should be rooted out, banned and fined.

To be honest, you expect this sort of stuff from fans of certain clubs. It's par for the course with Chelsea, unfortunately.

[soxfan]

You have to be careful with it too. Some players thrive on it and become inspired by it. With some, it pays not to poke the bear. Others, well they just crumble.

I remember a quote from long ago from basketball great Larry Bird. He was always looking for a challenge, otherwise he'd get bored because he was better than 99.9% of other players. Something about how he liked playing on the road more than home, because he wanted to torture the opposing fans. He loved it when they booed him.

[thejbs]

Full article here:https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/danny-murphys-naby-keita-comments-are-everything-that-is-wrong-with-punditry-156399


Here is a quote:

I've often noticed that the term 'beast of a player' is usually only applied to black footballers.

[redgriffin73]

Full article here:https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/danny-murphys-naby-keita-comments-are-everything-that-is-wrong-with-punditry-156399


Here is a quote:

Thanks! What an ignorant bellend (Murphy,  not you!)

[Clayton Bigsby]

I can recall criticising Pacheco for unfortunate use of language referring to Glen Johnson and getting dogs abuse over it. I wasn't blameless(infact I was a bit naughty) but it was clear that the posters on here couldn't or wouldn't see what I was trying to say. 'Language barriers' I believe

There is another occasion I spoke about, I think it may have been suarez, and people referenced my username as though that meant I shouldn't be allowed to talk about it.

This a private message I received on the subject. June 7 2012

It's been locked now mate but I don't agree with the people going off on one over what you have said. I can understand your thinking, whether I agree with it completely or not. People area bit touchy over this issue on both sides so don't let it get to you. Either way, it's a forum for discussion and all opinions are there to be shared.


Racism always makes people uncomfortable, always has done always will

[Clayton Bigsby]

Gerrard is the first nane that comes to my mind when i think beast and when watching Keita I could definitely see second half of this season/next season that he will take that mantle, he is brilliant

[exilescouse]

I've often noticed that the term 'beast of a player' is usually only applied to black footballers.

Can it be both? Surely it's one or the other.

Other than that, are you talking about the press or Joe Public? I hear many players described as a beast of a player but never noticed a specific colour in relation to this comment, in fact Mascherano is the first player that pops into my head.

[Craig S]

I've often noticed that the term 'beast of a player' is usually only applied to black footballers.

Not sure about that. First players that I thought of that had the nickname "the beast" were Gk Brian Jensen and Negredo, both of whom are white. Then also Akinfenwa, but think that name came from FIFA computer game.
Harry Kane was called a beast at the WC (by piers Moron). Suarez called messi a beast, Suarez himself was called it by Dani Alves, ZZ called Ronaldo a beast.

I think it's just a term for someone at the top of their game.

[rob1966]

I know you mean well but a big part of why you won't hear about racism as much as it happens, is that it's not just the racists we have to worry about. It's the vast majority of ordinary people like you who outnumber those racists coming in and acting like racism is some quirky historic thing that happened in the past.

Better for us to just stay quiet a lot of the time.

Martin Luther King talked about a similar concept in his "letter from Birmingham jail".

Anfield is a nice and accepting ground, and amongst Asians I know it has a reputation as being welcoming. There are football grounds we won't go to though or especially not in any kind of family context with kids etc.

Thanks for the reply. I'm probably quite isolated from it all now, due to where I live and work. I just see people these days, but if I was to try to break it down, I could say I have friends, acquaintances and work colleagues who are black, Asian, Christian, Muslim, Jewish.

I know racism is still a big issue in this country, I just thought the commentators and pundits where at lease adult enough to just see the player and not his racial stereotyped background. Its fucking sad.

[the_red_pill]

You can boo a player and support our team wholeheartedly as well. We've done it countless times in big games and it's unnerved the opposition. And I believe it definitely has had an effect on Raheem. So I don't see a problem with it, as long as it isn't racist.

Booing an oppo player IS supporting our team IF it has a negative effect on that player.
I have no problem abusing Raheem. He's a grown man who is extremely fortunate. Doubt it really bothers him when he counts his millions every week. What's a little abuse between football enthusiasts anyway?

Racial abuse and racism in general though should be treated with no mercy. Get that shit out of football.

[thaddeus]

I've often noticed that the term 'beast of a player' is usually only applied to black footballers.

Jan Koller made some of the so-called defensive beasts marking him look like primary school children!  For me the term beast started and ended with him, the rest are just pale imitations.

On the discussion of hostile atmosphere vs. racism, the distinction is clear.  We melted away in Belgrade in the face of such an atmosphere and we, rightly in my opinion, take great pride in having made other teams do the same at Anfield.

Booing/whistling/jeering a single opposition player as something of a pantomime villain is a little different as people will always question the motives.  As others have stated, Sterling seemingly sunk into himself the first time our fans got onto him so it's continued even though he's actually spoken very well of us on numerous occasions since and I don't think there's particularly any ill-will towards him anymore.  If we were to face Ramos again the noise would likely rise a few decibels, whether it would persist for 90 minutes when he's seemingly got a hide like rhino is questionable.

[Big Dirk]

So according to that clown Jim White we shouldn't  boo or abuse Raheem or any other players as it doesn't happen in Tennis!

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

So according to that clown Jim White we shouldn't  boo or abuse Raheem or any other players as it doesn't happen in Tennis!

Yeah, let's stop singing, cheering, chanting, too.

I don't know why football has to carry all the problems of the society on its back, and it's turning into a moral battlefield for some frustrated people. Football exists so we can forget the daily struggles for at least 90min. So please, let's keep it that way.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

So according to that clown Jim White we shouldn't  boo or abuse Raheem or any other players as it doesn't happen in Tennis!

He obviously didn't see the US Open final when Osaka was booed for having the audacity to beat Serena Williams then.

A really poor analogy, that. For an individual sport, tennis can sometimes have an incredibly partisan and merciless crowd. Cricket or Rugby would seem the better example, but if no one's particularly reacting to what's going on the pitch, then it's probably because no one really cares.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Why the fuck is Matthew syed getting airtime over this, least aluko has called it out

[Xabi Gerrard]

John Barnes on BBC Breakfast, owning this debate like it's an 80's right back. I love this man.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0</a>

[Phil M]

John Barnes on BBC Breakfast, owning this debate like it's an 80's right back. I love this man.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0</a>

Thanks for posting that.

[Johns_Barn]

I've often noticed that the term 'beast of a player' is usually only applied to black footballers.

That is harder to prove and a potential fool's errand.

Stan Collymor... Nah it was a caller after him on James O'brien this morning talked about the roles that young black footballers get pigeon holed into in the pitch. Statistically they get shunted onto the wing ("athletic", "fast") or upfront (as "big bruisers") and rarely into midfield. To play in the middle, puts you in position of controller and intelligence. But this flies in the face of the IQ narrative that is baked into the system and fuel for the degeneracy dished out to black folk globally. He pointed out that Ince and Viera were the only [obvious] ones that managed to shatter through this glass ceiling. Playing such a role grooms one for leadership... Quelle surprise they are in the tiny minority that have made it into management.

Think back to Ron Atkinson's words when he thought nobody was listening...it's no wonder King Kong gets endlessly remade for new generations.