Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023 - archived discussions about what’s offensive

[Lycan]

Quotes like those, which Jason posted just above your post, don't make signing Bellingham any easier.

No, but it shows shes got fire in her belly.

[farawayred]

No, but it shows shes got fire in her belly.

I didn't mean the language of her post, but the quote above that said sort of (paraphrasing) Klopp wanted Bellingham first and foremost, other signings should be pushed down the list, etc.

But yeah, KH has a fire in her belly, and it's good to see that passion.

[Samie]

Looks like we're lining up our Kelleher replacement.

Liverpool have their eye on Anderlecht goalkeeper Bart Verbruggen, with the 20-year-old available for a fee of at least €10m. [@HLN_BE]

[Gerry Attrick]

Looks like we're lining up our Kelleher replacement.

That would be insane. To use another foreign player slot on a backup goalkeeper when we need to use them elsewhere would be not smart.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

That would be insane. To use another foreign player slot on a backup goalkeeper when we need to use them elsewhere would be not smart.

Not really. You need your actual back-up keeper to be good first and foremost, especially seeing that Alisson has a history of picking up the odd injury. It's the 3rd choice keeper that you get as homegrown.

[Coolie High]

Not really. You need your actual back-up keeper to be good first and foremost, especially seeing that Alisson has a history of picking up the odd injury. It's the 3rd choice keeper that you get as homegrown.

The backup keeper should come from within our academy otherwise what exactly is the point of us signing 5 youth goalkeepers every summer, if we sell Kelleher for £20m and replace him with another young keeper for £10m that is just silly, promote Marcelo Pitaluga or something.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

The backup keeper should come from within our academy otherwise what exactly is the point of us signing 5 youth goalkeepers every summer, if we sell Kelleher for £20m and replace him with another young keeper for £10m that is just silly, promote Marcelo Pitaluga or something.

Well we should be asking for much more than £20 million for Kelleher.

And selling Kelleher for as much as we could sell him for now is pretty much the point of signing "5 youth goalkeepers every summer". You only need one to come good to make a huge profit from it - or if timings allow to become your no.1.

[disgraced cake]

Think we'll definitely buy another keeper if Kelleher goes. Would expect someone who's contract is up or comes in for a minimal fee. They sent Pitaluga on loan to someone in about the 7th tier earlier this season so surely he won't be the number 2. Maybe a better loan for him next season, bring a new #2 in, give Davies or someone else the 3rd spot

[deano2727]

I'm not against Mount, but not for the amount it would take. I think there's a quality player in there that Klopp would get the best out of. I'd rather we avoid Nunes.

Bellingham is the one we need to get through. I'm less confident on that one each passing week. Let's see.

[Coolie High]

Well we should be asking for much more than £20 million for Kelleher.

And selling Kelleher for as much as we could sell him for now is pretty much the point of signing "5 youth goalkeepers every summer". You only need one to come good to make a huge profit from it - or if timings allow to become your no.1.

How exactly will we get more than 20-25m for Kelleher when he hasn’t had a full season of games at any point in his career?

He’ll be our biggest saleable asset after Fabinho this summer so don’t think we should go and put half of that on another young keeper who will barely get games to prove himself, I actually don’t see us generating a lot of sales this summer, we have Fabinho and Kelleher who we can make decent money from that’s basically it.

[Knight]

We really would have to be insane to buy Nunes.

[The G in Gerrard]

We really would have to be insane to buy Nunes.

Great.

[Big Dirk]

Most other top clubs would see that Kelleher has the potential to be a top keeper so would just loan him out for a few years then have him come in when Alisson leaves…but not us as our owners go weak at the knees with the thought of making profit on a player.

[CraigDS]

Most other top clubs would see that Kelleher has the potential to be a top keeper so would just loan him out for a few years then have him come in when Alisson leaves…but not us as our owners go weak at the knees with the thought of making profit on a player.

Alisson is contracted until 2027, and showing no signs of a fall in form, so not entirely sure why Kelleher (expires before this) would be tempted to sign a new deal and go out on a long loan.

Plus we'll almost certainly put a buyback / sell on clause (i.e. discount clause) in any deal for such reason.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Can I say something that may be counted as sacralidge based on the form of this thread.

I am not massively impressed by Kone. I think he is still very raw and unproven. If he costs very little, then he would be good as a young project, but I feel he is far from the player we would want to be starting, nor is he the best player we can get for a reasonable cost

[Samie]

Where are you getting the info that he's costing a lot? Of the midfielders we've been linked with he's on the lower end of the scale in terms of fee. 

[CraigDS]

Where are you getting the info that he's costing a lot? Of the midfielders we've been linked with he's on the lower end of the scale in terms of fee. 

Not everyone has your underground sources mate, give them a break.

[Samie]

When I told you I had to get back to my sauce I meant my kebab that was dripping with chili sauce. My bad.

[CraigDS]

When I told you I had to get back to my sauce I meant my kebab that was dripping with chili sauce. My bad.

TBF that sounds more reliable than most you post.

[Sangria]

Can I say something that may be counted as sacralidge based on the form of this thread.

I am not massively impressed by Kone. I think he is still very raw and unproven. If he costs very little, then he would be good as a young project, but I feel he is far from the player we would want to be starting, nor is he the best player we can get for a reasonable cost

Are you underwhelmed by his playmaking ability, or his defensive ability? We've got plenty of link players at the moment, and Bajcetic apart, no good defensive players.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Where are you getting the info that he's costing a lot? Of the midfielders we've been linked with he's on the lower end of the scale in terms of fee. 

Oh I know he is reported to be quite cheap, hence why I said if he costs very little in my post, but there's no use getting a younger player for cheap, if he doesn't solve our immediate problems.

If we got him for say £25-£30 million (30 was the lowest I had seen for his price) and another 2 or 3 starting midfielders including a 6, then I would say sure, sound. If we got him to be starting for us, I don't think he is the level we want for a starter right now. Walks into our midfield but I don't think works as a top 4 challenging midfield yet. He could very easily become one, but we don't need someone to become a top 4 level midfielder we need one who is one now, as a bare minimum

[

Are you underwhelmed by his playmaking ability, or his defensive ability? We've got plenty of link players at the moment, and Bajcetic apart, no good defensive players.

A bit of both I guess. This has just been from an eye test but it just looks like he isn't quite the finished article yet, even to a point of being a suitable starter for us

Looking at his stats for the past year (and my reading of them may be wrong) by it looks as though from them he hasn't got a lot in terms of attacking or creative play, he is pretty good on tackles won but not THAT high (79th percentile per 90), and seems not brilliant on interceptions. FBRef has him good at Tackles and Take-Ons (which I don't exactly know what that means but whatever), but as I say his tackle stats from a glance are good but not elite I don't believe.

I will also be fair that with my eye test, Monchengladbach are not having the best season so that may could it, but then again he is a key part of that Midfield, so if there are having a poor season, he may be a part of that.

I think we can get better, and not for significantly more money. Again he is young so plenty of promise, but we need someone now.

Looking at his stats and comparing to other players when have been linked with (Ugarte, Luis) from my reading of theirs stats (which I don't do a lot tbf so may be reading wrong) they look significantly better as midfielders, and crucially as defensive midfielders. Same to a slightly lesser extent with Palhinha as well

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Sounds like Ugarte the love.

Don't be Staton your reputation on that.

[decosabute]

How exactly will we get more than 20-25m for Kelleher when he hasn’t had a full season of games at any point in his career?

He’ll be our biggest saleable asset after Fabinho this summer so don’t think we should go and put half of that on another young keeper who will barely get games to prove himself, I actually don’t see us generating a lot of sales this summer, we have Fabinho and Kelleher who we can make decent money from that’s basically it.

We got £14m for Danny Ward, who'd played significantly less top level games than Kelleher, and never shown the same level in big matches. Prices have only gone up in the 5 years since. I'd say £25m is the minimum we should be accepting for Kelleher. Otherwise keep him.

[Knight]

If he wants to go and in principle we're up for selling him it's not worth keeping him for the sake of, say, 5 million, assuming we valued him at 25 and were offered 20. We really need that money this summer.

[Chris~]

That would be insane. To use another foreign player slot on a backup goalkeeper when we need to use them elsewhere would be not smart.

I assume we'll be letting Adrian go as well and then get the third choice as someone who qualifies as homegrown though, which is pretty normal?

[Coolie High]

Can I say something that may be counted as sacralidge based on the form of this thread.

I am not massively impressed by Kone. I think he is still very raw and unproven. If he costs very little, then he would be good as a young project, but I feel he is far from the player we would want to be starting, nor is he the best player we can get for a reasonable cost

Who will be better for a reasonable cost? I’m interested to see some names.

[Clint Eastwood]

I reckon we’ve cooled our interest on Nunes. I don’t think anyone expected him to be this ineffective.

[Coolie High]

Oh I know he is reported to be quite cheap, hence why I said if he costs very little in my post, but there's no use getting a younger player for cheap, if he doesn't solve our immediate problems.

If we got him for say £25-£30 million (30 was the lowest I had seen for his price) and another 2 or 3 starting midfielders including a 6, then I would say sure, sound. If we got him to be starting for us, I don't think he is the level we want for a starter right now. Walks into our midfield but I don't think works as a top 4 challenging midfield yet. He could very easily become one, but we don't need someone to become a top 4 level midfielder we need one who is one now, as a bare minimum

[
A bit of both I guess. This has just been from an eye test but it just looks like he isn't quite the finished article yet, even to a point of being a suitable starter for us

Looking at his stats for the past year (and my reading of them may be wrong) by it looks as though from them he hasn't got a lot in terms of attacking or creative play, he is pretty good on tackles won but not THAT high (79th percentile per 90), and seems not brilliant on interceptions. FBRef has him good at Tackles and Take-Ons (which I don't exactly know what that means but whatever), but as I say his tackle stats from a glance are good but not elite I don't believe.

I will also be fair that with my eye test, Monchengladbach are not having the best season so that may could it, but then again he is a key part of that Midfield, so if there are having a poor season, he may be a part of that.

I think we can get better, and not for significantly more money. Again he is young so plenty of promise, but we need someone now.

Looking at his stats and comparing to other players when have been linked with (Ugarte, Luis) from my reading of theirs stats (which I don't do a lot tbf so may be reading wrong) they look significantly better as midfielders, and crucially as defensive midfielders. Same to a slightly lesser extent with Palhinha as well

He is not a creative player, that’s the difference between him and Bellingham. But he is nearly as good of a dribbler and just as good of a tackler this is what the stats say, he is a more defensively inclined Bellingham per se, which is why he will cost 50m or so less.

He makes .1 less interceptions than Bellingham also.

Bellingham is a one off otherwise I would say a player of the type of profile Kone offers is far more important for us going into next summer than a creative player, a player who can dribble away from pressure is good technically has stamina and a physical presence can press from midfield and has enough pace and energy to get back the other way, a young less combative Kante for example would be a more pressing concern. Why Bellingham is so highly rated is because he has a lot of these attributes himself.

Kone is still only 21, if you were to analyze Camavinga or even (Tchouaméni)for example based on this seasons performances you’ll find a lot of the same caveats, looking at his profile in isolation he too doesn’t look like a world beater when you for one moment ignore his age, but we see him in some big games like against us and we can see that he has a high level of talent and ability rare for someone his age.

The same conclusion would be drawn if someone for example watched Borrussia Monchengladbach against Munich, in fact Kone has had decent performances against Bayern in the last couple years that to me is more of an indication of his talent than anything.

Just look at his attributes and imagine in playing in a top team with better players and the best manage around.

I would add as a disclaimer both Camavinga and Tchouaméni had elite elite tacking stats in France playing for teams with less of the ball than Madrid, but neither showed ability to break lines with their dribbling and evade pressure/progress the ball through dribbling quite like Kone, his price pretty much shows the level he is at a young midfielder just below the likes of Bellingham and Tchouaméni, and they both have gone or will go for an amount at least 20m or more than Kone would go for so it makes sense.

[Lycan]

I reckon we’ve cooled our interest on Nunes. I don’t think anyone expected him to be this ineffective.

Really hope that is the case. I know he's playing in a struggling side, but with a player in that situation you'd perhaps expect to see the odd flash of brilliance that would make you think there is something to work with there, but I haven't seen anything like that.

[Coolie High]

Oh I know he is reported to be quite cheap, hence why I said if he costs very little in my post, but there's no use getting a younger player for cheap, if he doesn't solve our immediate problems.

If we got him for say £25-£30 million (30 was the lowest I had seen for his price) and another 2 or 3 starting midfielders including a 6, then I would say sure, sound. If we got him to be starting for us, I don't think he is the level we want for a starter right now. Walks into our midfield but I don't think works as a top 4 challenging midfield yet. He could very easily become one, but we don't need someone to become a top 4 level midfielder we need one who is one now, as a bare minimum

[
A bit of both I guess. This has just been from an eye test but it just looks like he isn't quite the finished article yet, even to a point of being a suitable starter for us

Looking at his stats for the past year (and my reading of them may be wrong) by it looks as though from them he hasn't got a lot in terms of attacking or creative play, he is pretty good on tackles won but not THAT high (79th percentile per 90), and seems not brilliant on interceptions. FBRef has him good at Tackles and Take-Ons (which I don't exactly know what that means but whatever), but as I say his tackle stats from a glance are good but not elite I don't believe.

I will also be fair that with my eye test, Monchengladbach are not having the best season so that may could it, but then again he is a key part of that Midfield, so if there are having a poor season, he may be a part of that.

I think we can get better, and not for significantly more money. Again he is young so plenty of promise, but we need someone now.

Looking at his stats and comparing to other players when have been linked with (Ugarte, Luis) from my reading of theirs stats (which I don't do a lot tbf so may be reading wrong) they look significantly better as midfielders, and crucially as defensive midfielders. Same to a slightly lesser extent with Palhinha as well

Also Ugarte is an out and out defensive midfielder you’ll expect him to have better tackling stats from what I’ve seen from him though I would say Kone is undoubtedly a better athlete, I don’t know how you quite quantify that in stats other than to watch them, Luis I’ve barely seen so wouldn’t be able to really say anything but if he his as highly rated as everyone says and plays for Benfica you already know the fee will be a big one.

If we only made two midfield signings I would take Ugarte and Bellingham over everyone else because I feel we need a 6 the most, but I don’t see how Ugarte goes for anything less than 60m.

[Draex]

Also Ugarte is an out and out defensive midfielder you’ll expect him to have better tackling stats from what I’ve seen from nothin though I would say Kone is undoubtedly a better athlete, I don’t know how you quite quantify that in stats other than to watch them, Luis I’ve barely seen so wouldn’t be able to really say anything but if he his as highly rated as everyone says and plays for Benfica you already know the fee will be a big one.

If we only made two midfield signings I would take Ugarte and Bellingham over everyone else because I feel we need a 6 the most, but I don’t see how Ugarte goes for anything less than 60m.

The biggest head scratcher is the Mount links, he has played his best football further forward so would that signal a change in our formation? Ugarte has a release claus of 60mil euros from what I've seen online.

With regards to Kone I've seen him play once, v's Dortmund and he was excellent, he shut down Bellingham so many times. You're right he is a proper athlete but with technical ability, something our midfield lacks in spades.

Kone and K.Thuram would be great backups to Bellingham if we don't get CL etc. Personally I'd love all 3

[decosabute]

If he wants to go and in principle we're up for selling him it's not worth keeping him for the sake of, say, 5 million, assuming we valued him at 25 and were offered 20. We really need that money this summer.

It's not like Kelleher would be pushing so much for a move that we should be taking whatever we can get. He's a good pro and being backup for Liverpool (in most years at least) is better than being first choice for 80% of clubs I'd argue. We couldn't just sell him and promote a completely unproven kid either, so there would also be an associated cost to us in selling him.

Basically I don't think we should be taking a low ball amount when, in my opinion, £30m is a more accurate valuation, given the guy has looked impressive in every game for us and was instrumental in winning a trophy for us..

If we don't get a satisfactory offer that suits everyone, I could imagine we'll be far more likely to shop others from the academy - Phillips, Morton, maybe even Jones.

[Hazell]

If we don't get a satisfactory offer that suits eveeije, I could imagine we'll be far more likely to shop others from the academy - Phillips, Morton, maybe even Jones.

Is that our new Sporting Director? Or is it a pseudonym created by Lijnders, to worm his way into another position of influence?

[Coolie High]

The biggest head scratcher is the Mount links, he has played his best football further forward so would that signal a change in our formation? Ugarte has a release claus of 60mil euros from what I've seen online.

With regards to Kone I've seen him play once, v's Dortmund and he was excellent, he shut down Bellingham so many times. You're right he is a proper athlete but with technical ability, something our midfield lacks in spades.

Kone and K.Thuram would be great backups to Bellingham if we don't get CL etc. Personally I'd love all 3

Yep Mount doesn’t make sense to me an attacking midfielder/forward I would have thought would be the last thing we need in midfield, Bellingham makes sense because even though he is a more attacking midfielder, he can and does play as an 8 and also combines his ability going forward with good tackling and elite dribbling as a midfielder plus is 6ft plus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FTalentScout/status/1626981829860360192

This was Kones stats against Bayern last month

5 tackles

5/5 dribbles completed

14/19 duels won

1 big chance created

1 Key pass

95% pass accuracy


Bayern did go down to 10 men though very early, he has good performances against them though spanning nearly two years now, just look at the recent results between the two going back the last 5 games.

[Coolie High]

Ugarte has 52m release clause? I guess that’s not too bad if true, Kone would probably go for 40-45m if I was to guess?

[cdav]

I think we need 2 definite starters being a 6 and one of the 8s, with another 6/8 hybrid coming in as a developmental player who can contribute now but is really competing with Thiago/ Hendo/ Bajcetic for the 3rd midfield spot- its in this part that a Kone or Thuram makes sense imo.

Get a Ugarte/ Luis/ Rice in as a 6 with hopefully Bellingham as the other 8 and the balance looks a huge amount better

[Hazell]

I think we need 2 definite starters being a 6 and one of the 8s, with another 6/8 hybrid coming in as a developmental player who can contribute now but is really competing with Thiago/ Hendo/ Bajcetic for the 3rd midfield spot- its in this part that a Kone or Thuram makes sense imo.

Get a Ugarte/ Luis/ Rice in as a 6 with hopefully Bellingham as the other 8 and the balance looks a huge amount better

Yep, Thuram, Kone and Bellingham for me. Anything else and I'll be gravely disappointed.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Also Ugarte is an out and out defensive midfielder you’ll expect him to have better tackling stats from what I’ve seen from him though I would say Kone is undoubtedly a better athlete, I don’t know how you quite quantify that in stats other than to watch them, Luis I’ve barely seen so wouldn’t be able to really say anything but if he his as highly rated as everyone says and plays for Benfica you already know the fee will be a big one.

If we only made two midfield signings I would take Ugarte and Bellingham over everyone else because I feel we need a 6 the most, but I don’t see how Ugarte goes for anything less than 60m.

I think that's ultimately where I stand. My view on Kone was basically taking that of us needing starters now and in my view, needing a progressive midfielder and a defensive minded one - if I compare Kone to the likes of Ugarte and Bellingham, he doesn't stack up as a starter for that.

Now I know he is currently got a price tag of £30 million which is one of the most appealing aspects to him, he is absolutely worth that much, that's a great price, but as I have said, it isn't worth getting a young player for cheaper than most, when we need a player right now.

If we got Ugarte or Luis, Bellingham, and Kone that's brilliant work. If we got one of Ugarte or Luis or Bellingham and Kone I would think we were still short for next season, in my opinion.

He looks really good, but our position now needs near enough the finished article, we don't have the space to take Kone and grow him to be the Midfielder we need in a season or 2, although with 2 midfielders we would have that space.

[Draex]

Yep Mount doesn’t make sense to me an attacking midfielder/forward I would have thought would be the last thing we need in midfield, Bellingham makes sense because even though he is a more attacking midfielder, he can and does play as an 8 and also combines his ability going forward with good tackling and elite dribbling as a midfielder plus is 6ft plus.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FTalentScout/status/1626981829860360192

This was Kones stats against Bayern last month

5 tackles
5/5 dribbles completed
14/19 duels won
1 big chance created
1 Key pass
95% pass accuracy

Bayern did go down to 10 men though very early, he has good performances against them though spanning nearly two years now, just look at the recent results between the two going back the last 5 games.

Bellingham is a freak, I know it's lazy to compare him to Gerrard but he is very similar in the fact he has no weakness, he's elite in nearly every area.

Didn't see that match but that's quality output, especially against Bayern who have a very strong midfield. Anyone winning duels is a huge positive, one of our current biggest weaknesses.

So many talents around, really is no excuse for us to not improve ourselves dramatically.

https://www.sporting.pt/en/tags/manuel-ugarte#:~:text=Ugarte%20signs%20for%20Sporting%20CP&text=Sporting%20Clube%20de%20Portugal%20have,clause%20of%2060%20million%20euros.

Sporting Clube de Portugal have signed midfielder Manuel Ugarte as their latest summer reinforcement, with the Uruguayan joining through to 2026. The contract for the former FC Famalicão player, who was presented this Monday in Alcochete, has a buyout clause of 60 million euros.

[killer-heels]

Ugarte has 52m release clause? I guess that’s not too bad if true, Kone would probably go for 40-45m if I was to guess?

52m is a lot of money to be fair.