Author Topic: Curtis Jones  (Read 587152 times)

Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3400 on: May 18, 2022, 09:25:05 am »
He was very McManaman-ey last night I thought.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3401 on: May 18, 2022, 09:32:09 am »
Plays like he's Spanish, incredible ball control. When he is on it he is so fun to watch. His threat from distance is also great, always seems to come close with them.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3402 on: May 18, 2022, 09:53:46 am »
Love Curtis, need to see more influence on a game from him though.

We're probably buying an additional midfielder this summer, but selling the Ox, but there's an argument there to send Curtis on loan just for one season to a team he'll be a big player for. Perhaps a Southampton, a Brentford, a Bournemouth etc.

I want to see him affect games more because the talent is there. He was tidy last night and showed flashes - such as that quality turn and run - but he's too talented to only be showing glimpses. Still so young and so much development ahead of him - he's an exciting prospect but I think one well-placed loan for one season where he gets 2,500 minutes - he's played considerably less this season than last, when realistically he needed more minutes. Some of that's been down to injury but for him to become the dominant player he's capable of being, he needs a season as a first choice.
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Offline RedG13

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3403 on: May 18, 2022, 10:17:35 am »
Love Curtis, need to see more influence on a game from him though.

We're probably buying an additional midfielder this summer, but selling the Ox, but there's an argument there to send Curtis on loan just for one season to a team he'll be a big player for. Perhaps a Southampton, a Brentford, a Bournemouth etc.

I want to see him affect games more because the talent is there. He was tidy last night and showed flashes - such as that quality turn and run - but he's too talented to only be showing glimpses. Still so young and so much development ahead of him - he's an exciting prospect but I think one well-placed loan for one season where he gets 2,500 minutes - he's played considerably less this season than last, when realistically he needed more minutes. Some of that's been down to injury but for him to become the dominant player he's capable of being, he needs a season as a first choice.
Him Staying at Liverpool and get likely time in a game a week is more better then going out on loan. He has 75 caps at Liverpool. He better learning from Thiago, etc and training in the Liverpool squad.
He still putting everything together which is be expect at age 21. Should help him  not having such a stop and go with the concussion early plus the weird Eye injury.

Offline redk84

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3404 on: May 18, 2022, 10:17:59 am »
really willing him to do well...have thought he can be a valuable squad member but last night showed he could eventually start in mid if he keeps going this way
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3405 on: May 18, 2022, 10:19:18 am »
He was very McManaman-ey last night I thought.
In what way? Did he say there was nothing in the challenge on Jota?

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3406 on: May 18, 2022, 10:20:12 am »
In what way? Did he say there was nothing in the challenge on Jota?

Yep.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline macmanamanaman

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3407 on: May 18, 2022, 10:21:22 am »
He was very McManaman-ey last night I thought.

Leaving on a free transfer to Madrid, is Curtis?;)
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Offline mattD

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3408 on: May 18, 2022, 10:21:53 am »
In what way? Did he say there was nothing in the challenge on Jota?

“Yep... no, no, nothing in there for me Fletch... just get on with the game lad”.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3409 on: May 18, 2022, 10:24:38 am »
Fantastic tonight. Keep up the good work Curtis.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3410 on: May 18, 2022, 10:34:14 am »
Love Curtis, need to see more influence on a game from him though.

We're probably buying an additional midfielder this summer, but selling the Ox, but there's an argument there to send Curtis on loan just for one season to a team he'll be a big player for. Perhaps a Southampton, a Brentford, a Bournemouth etc.

I want to see him affect games more because the talent is there. He was tidy last night and showed flashes - such as that quality turn and run - but he's too talented to only be showing glimpses. Still so young and so much development ahead of him - he's an exciting prospect but I think one well-placed loan for one season where he gets 2,500 minutes - he's played considerably less this season than last, when realistically he needed more minutes. Some of that's been down to injury but for him to become the dominant player he's capable of being, he needs a season as a first choice.

The tricky thing to know is what instructions he's given. Jones often gets the, 'he's playing within himself, needs to offer more' (by which they mean offensive threat) when no other CM seems to get that. Which is, I think, because we know Klopp gives his CMs very explicit instructions and they often seem to be more about control, counter press, 2nd balls and being behind the ball at the right moments than they are about attacking output. I'd not be remotely surprised if Jones' problem is he's not as good at the defensive side of the game as others and where he, at least potentially, shines Klopp wants from his wide forwards and fullbacks and less from his 8s. What are his progressive pass numbers like? We can be pretty confident that there's one on ball output that Klopp is very interested in given the move from Gini to Thiago - which was like moving from a horse drawn carriage to a Ferrari in terms of progressive passing!

Offline RedG13

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3411 on: May 18, 2022, 10:37:58 am »
The tricky thing to know is what instructions he's given. Jones often gets the, 'he's playing within himself, needs to offer more' (by which they mean offensive threat) when no other CM seems to get that. Which is, I think, because we know Klopp gives his CMs very explicit instructions and they often seem to be more about control, counter press, 2nd balls and being behind the ball at the right moments than they are about attacking output. I'd not be remotely surprised if Jones' problem is he's not as good at the defensive side of the game as others and where he shines Klopp doesn't want so much from his 8s. What are his progressive pass numbers like? We can be pretty confident that there's one on ball output that Klopp is very interested in given the move from Gini to Thiago - which was like moving from a horse drawn carriage to a Ferrari in terms of progressive passing!
Jones Defense pressing numbers are very good.
Klopp also wants good Carries, Jones is 99th percentile with it.
He up to 58th percentile in progressive passing(it not the best over the last year but it been up and done) He improved it this season
https://fbref.com/en/players/4fb9c88f/Curtis-Jones

Offline Knight

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3412 on: May 18, 2022, 10:50:09 am »
Jones Defense pressing numbers are very good.
Klopp also wants good Carries, Jones is 99th percentile with it.
He up to 58th percentile in progressive passing(it not the best over the last year but it been up and done) He improved it this season
https://fbref.com/en/players/4fb9c88f/Curtis-Jones

Interesting. His pressing numbers become less good when you look at the % that are successful. On this he's down below Keďta, Henderson and Thiago. On the other defensive numbers he doesn't come out great in comparison with Keita or Thiago. I think he's a very willing presser and he works hard, but I'm not sure he's a particularly effective presser. And he's not brilliant with tackles, clearances, interceptions etc although I don't think they're possession adjusted so it's harder for our players to appear high on defensive action percentiles.

 Keita by the way is a pressing monster. It's insane how good he is at it.

Offline redmark

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3413 on: May 18, 2022, 11:16:19 am »
Love Curtis, need to see more influence on a game from him though.

We're probably buying an additional midfielder this summer, but selling the Ox, but there's an argument there to send Curtis on loan just for one season to a team he'll be a big player for. Perhaps a Southampton, a Brentford, a Bournemouth etc.

I want to see him affect games more because the talent is there. He was tidy last night and showed flashes - such as that quality turn and run - but he's too talented to only be showing glimpses. Still so young and so much development ahead of him - he's an exciting prospect but I think one well-placed loan for one season where he gets 2,500 minutes - he's played considerably less this season than last, when realistically he needed more minutes. Some of that's been down to injury but for him to become the dominant player he's capable of being, he needs a season as a first choice.
All a loan would signal at this stage is that we don't think he's good enough to breakthrough and we're open to offers. Given the injuries, he's played decent minutes this season - his 'minutes when available' would seem to be pretty much in line with Keita's; totalling slightly more than both Milner and Ox, who could both be leaving at the end of the season.

Essentially (and putting Elliott to one side for a moment), he's already challenging Keita as first replacement for Henderson/Thiago - primarily, Thiago. Whoever we buy (if we buy) this summer, it seems either they will be an alternative 6, or allow Henderson (or Thiago) to play more as the alternative 6, so not necessarily denting Jones' opportunities. Obviously, Thiago is 31, Henderson will be 32 by the start of next season and game time at 6 needs sharing out a little more to manage Fabinho physically. If we're aiming to play 60+ games a season, there's plenty of opportunity. Jones has been involved in 27 this season, even after the injuries, and there's still Ox/Milner's minutes to be accounted for next season. No reason why he couldn't be reaching 35-40 appearances or more, some as sub, next season.

I don't think Jones needs a long run of games to gradually develop and show what he's capable of; the glimpses, I think, have a pattern. He looks better immediately within a game when he's getting onto the ball frequently. It was noticeable last night after the substitution when he played in the 'two' for a spell, that he immediately got more of the ball and took the opportunity to do more on it. He doesn't have to play in a two to do that (and there are games you wouldn't want him in a two, perhaps), but I think it shows he benefits from just seeing as much of the ball as possible within a game. Very Spanish, as others have said.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3414 on: May 18, 2022, 11:48:08 am »
It's remarkable how well Jurgen has managed him. When Jones first broke through a couple of years back he was cocky and impatient to play. There's nothing wrong in that but it did seem to suggest an attitude out of kilter with the Klopp way. If I remember right it took Adam Lallana to gently chastise him and think of the bigger picture.

Now look at him. He hasn't played as many minutes as he would have liked I'm sure. But he has continued to progress. And his attitude is spot on.

Liverpool are definitely doing something right.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3415 on: May 18, 2022, 11:51:34 am »
Thought he was great last night. Great close control, really good - mature discipline. The reason he's had relatively few minutes this year is purely because he's not as good as Fabinho, Thiago, Keita and Hendo - which applies to almost all midfielders in the league. He's good enough to play far more somewhere else - and were he not an academy graduate he may well want to - but don't see him going anywhere for a long time.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3416 on: May 18, 2022, 12:05:23 pm »
He's played over 1500 minutes this season - and in all competitions. It's not a bad amount + a year of training with some absolute World Class players.

Next season - if he can avoid the weird injuries (covid, eye) - he should be in line for 2500 mins across the 4 comps (again some depends on how far we progress in each).

Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3417 on: May 18, 2022, 12:21:25 pm »
Firmly ahead of AOC now in terms of using the ball to great effect. Having Milner to run the show in the middle may perhaps have helped him settle and not to rush with his decisions. He will be a good deputy for Henderson come next season.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3418 on: May 18, 2022, 12:53:24 pm »
I think it’s a good sign that Klopp trusted him in the 4-2-4 with Hendo.

Offline royhendo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3419 on: May 18, 2022, 12:58:14 pm »
It's an interesting one - I wonder how significant the injury was for him in the Autumn (the eye/retina issue). He's still 21, and this season he's had quite a few big moments - the Dragao moment is the biggest of those for me cos he looked unbelievably good. The season before that he was outplaying the Ajax midfield home and away.

He's played quite a solid season and started some very big games for us where we got, let's face it, good results. https://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/GamesPerSeason/1322-131

He started in the following:
Porto away - was brilliant
Man City home
Arsenal away (League Cup) - was brilliant
Inter away

He also came on early against Man U in the 5-0 (and drew what should have been a red card offence from Christiano Ronaldo). 

So not that insignificant really.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 04:17:40 pm by royhendo »
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Offline Wilmo

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3420 on: May 18, 2022, 09:26:55 pm »
Wonderful player who will have people eating their words like with Henderson.

He will be the Iniesta to Harvey's Xavi.

I believe the best is yet to come with these players coming through. Exciting times.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3421 on: May 19, 2022, 05:25:26 am »
He was very McManaman-ey last night I thought.
That is a really good observation, I totally agree.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3422 on: May 19, 2022, 02:35:36 pm »
It's remarkable how well Jurgen has managed him. When Jones first broke through a couple of years back he was cocky and impatient to play. There's nothing wrong in that but it did seem to suggest an attitude out of kilter with the Klopp way. If I remember right it took Adam Lallana to gently chastise him and think of the bigger picture.

Now look at him. He hasn't played as many minutes as he would have liked I'm sure. But he has continued to progress. And his attitude is spot on.

Liverpool are definitely doing something right.

Spot on. Fair play to Lallana too for being a good influence. He should know talent when he sees it.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3423 on: May 19, 2022, 02:54:24 pm »

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3424 on: May 19, 2022, 02:57:52 pm »

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3425 on: May 19, 2022, 03:10:48 pm »
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3426 on: June 17, 2022, 07:50:37 am »
Big season coming up for Curtis.  If the gossip is true and we're not in for another midfielder this summer, then he should get plenty of opportunities and minutes to stake his claim.

The gold standard of young centre mids is players like Pedri, Bellingham, etc, and Jones is a similar level of talent, it's just whether he can start to impose himself on games like the others regularly do.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3427 on: June 17, 2022, 09:59:07 am »
Big season coming up for Curtis.  If the gossip is true and we're not in for another midfielder this summer, then he should get plenty of opportunities and minutes to stake his claim.

The gold standard of young centre mids is players like Pedri, Bellingham, etc, and Jones is a similar level of talent, it's just whether he can start to impose himself on games like the others regularly do.

Gossip is he might go out on loan. We shall see.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3428 on: June 17, 2022, 10:48:36 am »
Gossip is he might go out on loan. We shall see.

I read Nottingham Forest. I don’t think we’ve got the strength in depth to allow the loan.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3429 on: June 17, 2022, 12:46:57 pm »
With there being whisperings about 4231 I think Jones would be incredible as an AM in behind the striker. Deft touch, glides across the field and a great shot

I find myself intrigued by what instructions we give him on his role, he always looks freed up on international duty and seems to express himself on the ball a lot more

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3430 on: June 17, 2022, 02:03:04 pm »
With there being whisperings about 4231 I think Jones would be incredible as an AM in behind the striker. Deft touch, glides across the field and a great shot

I find myself intrigued by what instructions we give him on his role, he always looks freed up on international duty and seems to express himself on the ball a lot more
exactly the same as with Gini, in my view.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3431 on: June 22, 2022, 01:24:05 pm »
I'll be honest i had/have high hopes for the lad but i do think he makes a lot of poor decisions on the ball and loses possession a lot more frequently than i'd like to see. He really needs to cut that out as others have said he's not a kid anymore and it's time for him to up his level if given the minutes. Do doubt there is absolute bags of talent under the bonnet and he has the best manager in the world to bring that consistency to his game. Big season for him.
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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3432 on: June 22, 2022, 01:26:13 pm »
Gossip is he might go out on loan. We shall see.

We are too short in that area to be loaning him out imo. Different story if we bring in another option may well do him good.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3433 on: June 22, 2022, 01:30:40 pm »
I'll be honest i had/have high hopes for the lad but i do think he makes a lot of poor decisions on the ball and loses possession a lot more frequently than i'd like to see. He really needs to cut that out as others have said he's not a kid anymore and it's time for him to up his level if given the minutes. Do doubt there is absolute bags of talent under the bonnet and he has the best manager in the world to bring that consistency to his game. Big season for him.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3434 on: June 22, 2022, 01:37:51 pm »
Wonder what hopes people had for Virgil or Robbo or Salah or Diaz when they were Jones's age?

People in such a rush to declare definitively upon a young player. I'll never understand it.
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Offline Tobelius

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3435 on: June 22, 2022, 01:50:35 pm »
Wonder what hopes people had for Virgil or Robbo or Salah or Diaz when they were Jones's age?

People in such a rush to declare definitively upon a young player. I'll never understand it.

Yeah,all i see is already a really good player at 21 in Curtis.

Technically wonderful,has the dribbling and shot on him and no doubt more to follow.

People were poo pooing Henderson regularly at his age as i remember.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 01:52:31 pm by Tobelius »

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3436 on: June 22, 2022, 04:02:00 pm »
I'll be honest i had/have high hopes for the lad but i do think he makes a lot of poor decisions on the ball and loses possession a lot more frequently than i'd like to see. He really needs to cut that out as others have said he's not a kid anymore and it's time for him to up his level if given the minutes. Do doubt there is absolute bags of talent under the bonnet and he has the best manager in the world to bring that consistency to his game. Big season for him.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3437 on: June 22, 2022, 04:26:14 pm »
I'll be honest i had/have high hopes for the lad but i do think he makes a lot of poor decisions on the ball and loses possession a lot more frequently than i'd like to see. He really needs to cut that out as others have said he's not a kid anymore and it's time for him to up his level if given the minutes.

I'm so pleased you don't rate him. You are my compass on this site. It sounds like Curtis has a real future with us, as I've always hoped.

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3438 on: June 22, 2022, 04:59:36 pm »
I'm so pleased you don't rate him. You are my compass on this site. It sounds like Curtis has a real future with us, as I've always hoped.



to be fair, Mr. Flip Flop may rate him next month. You never know.

Offline stewy17

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Re: Curtis Jones
« Reply #3439 on: June 22, 2022, 05:05:53 pm »
I'd love to know what is behind the Curtis Jones hate, not sure whether it's because he's a bit of a scal or perceived to have a bad attitude or something, or perhaps they expect him to be as good as Iniesta or something.

Yeah, he struggled to impact games at times but it's not an easy thing to do in a Liverpool midfield, on the other hand he's had a handful of man-of-the-match-level performances. His Porto performance was up there with any individual performance by any of our midfielders this season.

I expect him to improve again next year.