Author Topic: PL: Liverpool 3 v Brighton 3 Trossard 4', 17', 83', Bobby 33', 52', Webster 62'  (Read 28905 times)

Online Al 666

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With the greatest respect Al, I’d rather trap my balls in a spiky vice coated in vinegar than engage in an apparent conversation with you about football which very quickly becomes ‘that’s because of FSG’  :wave

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Offline keyop

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There are some real whoppers today after a poor result.
Yep they're out in force, and many of them were nowhere to be seen on post match threads last season when we were winning almost every week in 4 competitions.

Funny that.
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Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Having Bellingham would not help one bit when all an opposition needs to do to score is run at Trent.

That has been the consistent factor this season. Teams have targeted our right hand side and reaped consistent rewards, mostly though individual errors and lack of effort. Recruitment does not fix that.

Online Al 666

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Having Bellingham would not help one bit when all an opposition needs to do to score is run at Trent.

That has been the consistent factor this season. Teams have targeted our right hand side and reaped consistent rewards, mostly though individual errors and lack of effort. Recruitment does not fix that.

A massive part of that though is a lack of protection Infront of Trent t. Our midfield is getting cut up at will and teams are overloading Trent's side.
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Offline killer-heels

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A massive part of that though is a lack of protection Infront of Trent t. Our midfield is getting cut up at will and teams are overloading Trent's side.


There was a distinct lack of the ability to win the second ball. At first I thought its a completely physical thing with those three now being close to or maybe even past their best but the constant threat Brighton played makes me think the tactics, or even our ability to implement the tactics, are way off.

Offline stjohns

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Ah, well. Only 93 points available now. Should suffice.

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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A massive part of that though is a lack of protection Infront of Trent t. Our midfield is getting cut up at will and teams are overloading Trent's side.

Again, Trent is not defending. At all. We can have all the protection he wants (Bellingham isn't the answer you're looking for, in that case), but if there is a consistent lack of defending, an inability to do the basics, we will not fix the problem. Trent isn't tracking runners, looking after the balls played outside on his flank and if someone runs at him, he is consistently letting them pass.

Nothing to do with personnel, protection or tactics. Individual effort is missing. Basics aren't being done right. And that shows a deeper problem than lack of options in midfield.

Offline Paul1611

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A massive part of that though is a lack of protection Infront of Trent t. Our midfield is getting cut up at will and teams are overloading Trent's side.

great point, Hendo used to do this to great effect, now his legs are starting to go (and Elliots are not quite there) and Trent is the one suffering.

All is not lost, lets just let Jurgen sort it out (3 CL finals in 5 years kids!)

Online Al 666

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There was a distinct lack of the ability to win the second ball. At first I thought its a completely physical thing with those three now being close to or maybe even past their best but the constant threat Brighton played makes me think the tactics, or even our ability to implement the tactics, are way off.

Brighton were very good tactically I thought. They pushed the outside centre backs Webster and Veltman really wide when they played out from the back. So when they beat the initial press our midfield three were really stretched and they could just play around them. For me their game plan was to take advantage of our lack of athleticism in central midfield.
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Offline Perseus

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Just watched the whole of the match on Sky. I thought  it was terrific entertainment, with pieces of skill, goals, great saves and one horrendous mistake.

Offline Caps4444

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If we lose both then we will be in some proper bother. I dont think we will, but there is no sun shining our way out of those. We will be on 10 points out of 9 games.

Think the Arsenal game is key….lose that and we are 14 behind…even with a game in hand, no way we are catching them.

Spurs got 4th with 71 last season, average is 72 over past 2 years.

We need 2 points a game from here on in to get 72.
Issue is other teams have improved, so 4th probably will be higher, around 74/76.

We can turn it around.
Also can see Arsenal play second string on Thursday, as they did in their previous Europa Leage game, so they will be fresh.

Offline killer-heels

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Just watched the whole of the match on Sky. I thought  it was terrific entertainment, with pieces of skill, goals, great saves and one horrendous mistake.

It definitely was an exciting game, I said on half time thread that I felt we would still win despite being 2-1 down. We also showed absolute buckets of heart because we were 1-0 down quite early and Brighton were cutting through us, we could have easily felt sorry for ourselves but we didnt, we fought.

Ultimately I am not disappointed with the point, I would have taken it even at half time. The more disappointing was just how weak we looked structurally because if we dont sort that out quick, we could end up in a very sticky position.

Offline Geezer08

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That dickface Trossard joins an elite list.  :D


Making average players look like Ballon Dor winners is the Liverpool way atm. Fucking shite! All the talk about Bellingham is insane, he will never join us and even if he were, he will never solve all our midfield issues. With him in midfield today, we would still have drawn with BHA. Forget him

Offline lollysportswasher

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Like I said before the only player that is close to Gerrard in term of ability is KDB. Bellingham doesn't come close to KDB let alone Gerrard.

Offline lollysportswasher

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Making average players look like Ballon Dor winners is the Liverpool way atm. Fucking shite! All the talk about Bellingham is insane, he will never join us and even if he were, he will never solve all our midfield issues. With him in midfield today, we would still have drawn with BHA. Forget him

Trossard is a good player and far from average to be fair. Brighton are gonna get a lot of money for him if they decided to sell him.

Offline killer-heels

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Trossard is a good player and far from average to be fair. Brighton are gonna get a lot of money for him if they decided to sell him.

They have signed some good players but Id be wary of signing players from them, their system is king.

Having said that, they mix their systems quite well and their players must have good nous to be able to implement them.

Offline killer-heels

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Brighton were very good tactically I thought. They pushed the outside centre backs Webster and Veltman really wide when they played out from the back. So when they beat the initial press our midfield three were really stretched and they could just play around them. For me their game plan was to take advantage of our lack of athleticism in central midfield.

They did do. I have slated the midfield but its important to note that they really caught us, Klopp said after the match that their tactics surprised us, so they definitely did a number on us.

Offline Perseus

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It definitely was an exciting game, I said on half time thread that I felt we would still win despite being 2-1 down. We also showed absolute buckets of heart because we were 1-0 down quite early and Brighton were cutting through us, we could have easily felt sorry for ourselves but we didnt, we fought.

Ultimately I am not disappointed with the point, I would have taken it even at half time. The more disappointing was just how weak we looked structurally because if we dont sort that out quick, we could end up in a very sticky position.

Unlike last season when Brighton ran the show  from 2-0 down, this time their passing rhythm was seriously disrupted at times.

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Trossard is a good player and far from average to be fair. Brighton are gonna get a lot of money for him if they decided to sell him.

He’s 28 in a couple of months, they won’t get big money for him.
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Offline MPowerYNWA

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Get Gomez at right back, Trent right of midfield - see if that can shore up things.  Too many teams are targeting Trent side and he doesn’t have the cover in front - we’re asking too much when the team is struggling.


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Trossard is a good footballer but not a prolific goalscorer. the fact he scored a hat trick is almost as bad as that Russian dwarf scoring 4 against us.

Offline killer-heels

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Get Gomez at right back, Trent right of midfield - see if that can shore up things.  Too many teams are targeting Trent side and he doesn’t have the cover in front - we’re asking too much when the team is struggling.



Trent isnt great when pressed though, so playing him in midfield exposes him to that. Also, the last thing we need is another project. Fine if we went into it accepting it would be a transition season, but we didnt.

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Get Gomez at right back, Trent right of midfield - see if that can shore up things.  Too many teams are targeting Trent side and he doesn’t have the cover in front - we’re asking too much when the team is struggling.

people always make this call when we arent going well yet i dont think Klopp has ever even tried Trent in midfield.

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Just watching the highlights now. Sometimes I think you just have to credit the other team. That third goal was very well worked. Mo dived in a bit and Virgil should have cleared it but the bits in between they worked the situation well.

Hard to see how we get much from the next two games based on how easy we are to play through at the moment. Need something to change for us but not exactly sure what.

Online Al 666

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They did do. I have slated the midfield but its important to note that they really caught us, Klopp said after the match that their tactics surprised us, so they definitely did a number on us.

The thing is two or three years ago actively looking to encourage us to press and take risks playing it out from the back would have been suicide.

The thing is that we have the likes of Bobby, Thiago and Hendo who are a yard or two slower than they were and can now be picked off.
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Offline Samie

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What the midfield needs is the equivalent of open heat surgery with basically a new heart.

Offline MPowerYNWA

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people always make this call when we arent going well yet i dont think Klopp has ever even tried Trent in midfield.

I think Klopp alluded to this possibility when he was talking about Reece James and Trent playing for England together at the same time - albeit I think that was England with a back 3…so Reece James as a defender and Trent in front…

Online El Lobo

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What the midfield needs is the equivalent of open heat surgery with basically a new heart.

Which still wouldn’t come close to solving the issue of having four world class players, four of our most important defensively and offensively, playing shit
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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They did do. I have slated the midfield but its important to note that they really caught us, Klopp said after the match that their tactics surprised us, so they definitely did a number on us.

Wasn't it their managers first fucking game in charge though?

Offline Samie

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Which still wouldn’t come close to solving the issue of having four world class players, four of our most important defensively and offensively, playing shit

It wouldn't but nowadays any semi decent team is out maneuvering, out thinking us, out fighting us in midfield. We're just relying on a bit of Thiago magic now.  Fabinho is knackered.

Offline Dave McCoy

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I still don't believe top 4 is in that much jeopardy but winning the title is definitely gone and I'd say being comfortably 2nd probably is as well without a massive turn around. The problem is that based on the season so far why would anyone believe there is any turn around coming?

It's looking more and more likely that last season was the last hurrah for this group as is. You never know when a teams window to win things begins or ends, it's only clear once it's finally started or over. Nobody ever thinks they'll stop winning until they actually do unless the owners make a conscious decision to tear it down like the 98 Bulls or the Marlins whatever year they first won the World Series. So on the back of almost winning everything there is to win then I think it's fair to think that will just continue until it's proven otherwise. I think though we're getting pretty close to

We're broken as a tactical unit, just broken. 6 shots by Brighton, all 6 on goal and all 6 considered a "Big Chance" by Opta. I'm pretty sure we'll get clarification at some point this week but I'd be money that the other times such an event has occurred are pretty rare at best. Brighton played the same way Potter have them play, they just targeted Trent the same as everyone else has this season.The Napoli game wasn't an aberration but possibly just a sign of really how far the levels have dropped.

When Klopp initially signed his extension to 2024 it was so that he would turn over a new squad to the next manager. This was clearly stated and almost everyones contract aligned to the summer of 2023, it was a clear plan. But our success was so great that the plan was torn up, Klopp extended to 2026 and in the short term would keep the core group together as long as possible. We've extended Salah and Henderson on big money, we kept Milner around, we didn't try to force Keita or Ox out the door, we signed Thiago to play with the core and not a midfielder to be the core of the next team. Everything was done to keep the team together while they were winning and Klopp still wanted them here.

So now that it looks like it's going to blow up in our face by taking it a year too long on when this team would finally be done, well thems the brakes. We made choices, spent the money and here we are. Al and the rest of the sycophants can rant and rave all they want about not reinforcing because FSG just wants to fuck Klopp over for shits and giggles but that's just horseshit, the club made conscious decisions to double down instead of drawing a new hand so to say.

The only real issue though with the above statements is it's one thing to say Hendo, Virgil, Thiago, etc etc were kept around too long but that sure as shit doesn't explain what's going on with Trent. Blame having to play with no midfield cover all you want but his defensive effort all season screams "I don't want to be here doing this." As there's really only two answers here to the question of what's wrong with Trent. Either the manager and his staff are asking Trent to do more than is possible and are completely blind to that by sending him out there over and over to continue to do it or Trent is choosing not to do what he is instructed to do for whatever reason. There's no other plausible explanation and maybe it wouldn't matter in the end as far as us winning any trophies but it better make the manager and his staff reassess what is best for the club vs. what is best for Trent as something is wildly off here.

Offline robertobaggio37

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Like this team, most of the arguments on the RAWK have run their cycle. All boils now down to the owners and whether they’re prepared to back the manager because like it or not, he’s the only one capable of turning things around.

Back the man for fucks sake, it’s as simple as that.
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Offline robertobaggio37

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Just watching the highlights now. Sometimes I think you just have to credit the other team. That third goal was very well worked. Mo dived in a bit and Virgil should have cleared it but the bits in between they worked the situation well.

Hard to see how we get much from the next two games based on how easy we are to play through at the moment. Need something to change for us but not exactly sure what.

Do everything possible to get the team be more compact. Get back to basics, change formation, change team’s shape, get everything out of players we have available. Be more pragmatic, let them show their worth.
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Offline Studgotelli

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Most of these players have had 4/5 years of being run into the ground you can tell they can’t do it anymore. Everyone just looks leggy af minus Diaz, Tsimikas, Jota.

Offline Filler.

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We're in a very bad funk at the mo but just a quick word to all the KloppOut FSG out mob on twitter. I passes me by on there but fucking hell, how can we push them all out to sea? Utter parasites the lot of them. I'm getting so tired of football - but these muppets - jesus wept - fuck off.

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Like this team, most of the arguments on the RAWK have run their cycle. All boils now down to the owners and whether they’re prepared to back the manager because like it or not, he’s the only one capable of turning things around.

Back the man for fucks sake, it’s as simple as that.

:D

Yes full circle and now we’ll all join you in constantly slagging the players and the club off.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Dave McCoy

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They did do. I have slated the midfield but its important to note that they really caught us, Klopp said after the match that their tactics surprised us, so they definitely did a number on us.

Klopp says a lot of stuff after the match coming off of a bad result. There's no way this is actually true though.

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Klopp says a lot of stuff after the match coming off of a bad result. There's no way this is actually true though.
He doesn't really go in to as much detail when he's complaining about the wind or the dry grass. It comes across as a pretty honest assessment of what he thinks we did wrong


'They build up with the three in the back so Bobby had to do differently, midfield had to do differently, we needed to lead the passes to the outside. There we can go but we were fixed with the full-backs deep because of their wing-backs and all these kind of things. It is not rocket science but it happens, you realise it, you sort it because we have a lot of solutions meanwhile, but before we were in the solution mood we were already 2-0 down.'

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/jurgen-klopp-well-keep-working-and-fighting-find-our-form


Online Al 666

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I still don't believe top 4 is in that much jeopardy but winning the title is definitely gone and I'd say being comfortably 2nd probably is as well without a massive turn around. The problem is that based on the season so far why would anyone believe there is any turn around coming?

It's looking more and more likely that last season was the last hurrah for this group as is. You never know when a teams window to win things begins or ends, it's only clear once it's finally started or over. Nobody ever thinks they'll stop winning until they actually do unless the owners make a conscious decision to tear it down like the 98 Bulls or the Marlins whatever year they first won the World Series. So on the back of almost winning everything there is to win then I think it's fair to think that will just continue until it's proven otherwise. I think though we're getting pretty close to

We're broken as a tactical unit, just broken. 6 shots by Brighton, all 6 on goal and all 6 considered a "Big Chance" by Opta. I'm pretty sure we'll get clarification at some point this week but I'd be money that the other times such an event has occurred are pretty rare at best. Brighton played the same way Potter have them play, they just targeted Trent the same as everyone else has this season.The Napoli game wasn't an aberration but possibly just a sign of really how far the levels have dropped.

When Klopp initially signed his extension to 2024 it was so that he would turn over a new squad to the next manager. This was clearly stated and almost everyones contract aligned to the summer of 2023, it was a clear plan. But our success was so great that the plan was torn up, Klopp extended to 2026 and in the short term would keep the core group together as long as possible. We've extended Salah and Henderson on big money, we kept Milner around, we didn't try to force Keita or Ox out the door, we signed Thiago to play with the core and not a midfielder to be the core of the next team. Everything was done to keep the team together while they were winning and Klopp still wanted them here.

So now that it looks like it's going to blow up in our face by taking it a year too long on when this team would finally be done, well thems the brakes. We made choices, spent the money and here we are. Al and the rest of the sycophants can rant and rave all they want about not reinforcing because FSG just wants to fuck Klopp over for shits and giggles but that's just horseshit, the club made conscious decisions to double down instead of drawing a new hand so to say.

The only real issue though with the above statements is it's one thing to say Hendo, Virgil, Thiago, etc etc were kept around too long but that sure as shit doesn't explain what's going on with Trent. Blame having to play with no midfield cover all you want but his defensive effort all season screams "I don't want to be here doing this." As there's really only two answers here to the question of what's wrong with Trent. Either the manager and his staff are asking Trent to do more than is possible and are completely blind to that by sending him out there over and over to continue to do it or Trent is choosing not to do what he is instructed to do for whatever reason. There's no other plausible explanation and maybe it wouldn't matter in the end as far as us winning any trophies but it better make the manager and his staff reassess what is best for the club vs. what is best for Trent as something is wildly off here.

The bit you conveniently missed out is our lack of recruitment coinciding with Henry secretly plotting a European Super League.

Secret meetings between that would have led to a completely different system.

Why would we commit to building a new team when Henry fully expected the market to change.
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Offline Dave McCoy

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He doesn't really go in to as much detail when he's complaining about the wind or the dry grass. It comes across as a pretty honest assessment of what he thinks we did wrong


'They build up with the three in the back so Bobby had to do differently, midfield had to do differently, we needed to lead the passes to the outside. There we can go but we were fixed with the full-backs deep because of their wing-backs and all these kind of things. It is not rocket science but it happens, you realise it, you sort it because we have a lot of solutions meanwhile, but before we were in the solution mood we were already 2-0 down.'

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/jurgen-klopp-well-keep-working-and-fighting-find-our-form

And yet goals 1 and 2 have nothing to do with that.

The bit you conveniently missed out is our lack of recruitment coinciding with Henry secretly plotting a European Super League.

Secret meetings between that would have led to a completely different system.

Why would we commit to building a new team when Henry fully expected the market to change.

For the millionth time, do you have proof of any of this? Do you have a transcript of Henry telling Klopp that because the ESL didn't work that he had to re-sign Milner? No? Seriously not sure why I haven't ignored you yet as generally offer nothing of value aside from QAnon level ramblings.