Author Topic: Critical Race Theory  (Read 9454 times)

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Critical Race Theory
« on: April 7, 2022, 10:08:48 pm »
Just watching a couple of things on this and I haven't heard anything about it?

Have I had my head in the sand? Is it something to do with just America?

What do we think about it? John Oliver said that this is going on for 'over a year'

Really?
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #1 on: April 7, 2022, 10:54:50 pm »
Just the crazier Yanks but it's coming soon to a loon fest near you
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #2 on: April 8, 2022, 03:03:03 am »
Its nothing pretty much. Just a culture war boogeyman created by right-wing in US so they can stop kids from learning about things like Slavery or Jim Crow in history class.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #3 on: April 8, 2022, 06:44:37 am »
What it is:

Critical race theory (CRT) is a cross-disciplinary intellectual and social movement of civil-rights scholars and activists who seek to examine the intersection of race, society, and law in the United States and to challenge mainstream American liberal approaches to racial justice. For example, the CRT conceptual framework is one way to study racial bias in laws and institutions, such as the how and why of incarceration rates and how sentencing differs among racial groups in the United States.[1] CRT is also used in sociology to explain social, political, and legal structures and power distribution through the lens of race.[2][3] The word critical in its name is an academic term that refers to critical thinking, critical theory, and scholarly criticism, rather than criticizing or blaming people.[4][5]

(From Wiki)

What the Conservative Right are trying to portray it as:

Paedophile Liberals led by child-eating Hillary Clinton indoctrinating five year old white kids with self hate.

Basically it’s being weaponised by the same racist c*nts who lost the American Civil War and have never forgiven black people for emancipation.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #4 on: April 8, 2022, 07:10:29 am »
Its nothing pretty much. Just a culture war boogeyman created by right-wing in US so they can stop kids from learning about things like Slavery or Jim Crow in history class.

It’s definitely not ‘nothing’. The Conservative Right project to roll back civil liberties and minority rights is gathering pace. The Republicans, their backers and supporters like Murdoch and the Koch brothers realised they couldn’t maintain power in fair elections and have been using media like Fox News and the less well know Sinclair Media to spread misinformation. They’ve gerrymandered election districts and introduced racist voter suppression. The big win, which has the potential to turn America into a fascist state in the next five years, was blocking Obama’s Supreme Court pick and Trump’s three horrendous ideologue Supreme Court picks.

The horrors have already started with the effective abolition of abortion in Texas and other states. In the coming months and years expect cases brought before the Supreme Court that roll back all kinds of rights that were established in the sixties and seventies that are anathema to the religious right.

And the potential kicker will be a re-run of 2020 but this time the Republicans will have a Supreme Court 6-3 in their favour who could well just declare the Republican the winner.

So no, it’s not ‘nothing’ it’s part of a wide campaign to turn America into a country based on narrow right wing religious values.

*edit - and at the moment they are succeeding.
« Last Edit: April 8, 2022, 07:12:53 am by Alan_X »
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #5 on: April 8, 2022, 07:17:57 am »
John Oliver did a segment on this on Last Week Tonight, couple of months ago, available on Youtube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U


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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #6 on: April 8, 2022, 07:25:10 am »
Alan's 2 posts are absolutely spot on. I'll try to find a podcast from last year about it later, it's worth a listen if you want to attempt to understand.


edit here it is....it doesn't seem to be on iTunes.
https://slate.com/podcasts/what-next/2021/07/critical-race-theory-in-schools-how-the-right-weaponized-an-academic-discipline

what's frightening about how the far right are weaponising CRT is their suggestion that teaching history, in particular the egregious treatment of black people, is teaching white people to hate themselves.
No, it's just factual history you racist pricks.
« Last Edit: April 8, 2022, 08:07:32 am by John C »

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #7 on: April 8, 2022, 08:35:55 am »

Sorry my bad. Should have clarified. I meant that the way its being characterized by the right is a nothing burger. You have kids being taught the same version of American History as they have always been and you have these twats labelling it CRT and demonizing teachers and school boards over it.


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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #8 on: April 8, 2022, 08:42:27 am »
John Oliver did a segment on this on Last Week Tonight, couple of months ago, available on Youtube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U



Yeah that's what popped up on my feed so gave it a watch

I know it's the 'land of the free' but I'm always amazed at the amount of hate that Fox and that Carter git get away with. It's just racist gibberish from what I can make out.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #9 on: April 8, 2022, 09:34:16 am »
Alan's 2 posts are absolutely spot on. I'll try to find a podcast from last year about it later, it's worth a listen if you want to attempt to understand.


edit here it is....it doesn't seem to be on iTunes.
https://slate.com/podcasts/what-next/2021/07/critical-race-theory-in-schools-how-the-right-weaponized-an-academic-discipline

what's frightening about how the far right are weaponising CRT is their suggestion that teaching history, in particular the egregious treatment of black people, is teaching white people to hate themselves.
No, it's just factual history you racist pricks.

And it has creeped in over here, albeit not called “CRT”  it just “culture war” or whatever bollocks they’re calling it.

A few gobs on sticks were up in arms last year about National Trust properties putting details of the actual history of the places on websites, posters and in the tours. just the odd line like “…this was funded by the slave trade” or something.  Actual historical facts, and they wanted them taken down or removed.  It just makes them uncomfortable for some reason. It was a couple of hundred years ago, and it’s not their house, so you have to ask yourself why they object so much…

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #10 on: April 8, 2022, 10:56:52 am »

So no, it’s not ‘nothing’ it’s part of a wide campaign to turn America into a country based on narrow right wing religious values.

*edit - and at the moment they are succeeding.


Two superb posts, Alan.

I would just question how much of those driving the hard-right movement genuinely hold religious fundamentalist views (ie, apply them to themselves) and how much is just using it to secure a very substantial 'base' of voters?
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #11 on: April 8, 2022, 11:56:20 am »

Two superb posts, Alan.

I would just question how much of those driving the hard-right movement genuinely hold religious fundamentalist views (ie, apply them to themselves) and how much is just using it to secure a very substantial 'base' of voters?

You could ask the same thing across history to be honest.

For all the claims that "Religion has caused more wars..." I personally doubt it. I have no doubt that Religion is used as an excuse and a driver to push others into conflict, but when you look deeper, it's not actually 'Religion' that's doing the work - it's expansion, resources, Power, Influence and money.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #12 on: April 8, 2022, 12:21:47 pm »
You could ask the same thing across history to be honest.

For all the claims that "Religion has caused more wars..." I personally doubt it. I have no doubt that Religion is used as an excuse and a driver to push others into conflict, but when you look deeper, it's not actually 'Religion' that's doing the work - it's expansion, resources, Power, Influence and money.


Religion has been - and in some still-devout/backward regions, still is - a powerful tool to be wielded by those in power, to control the minds of the masses.

We all know of the 'god gene' that has humans (not all?) predisposed to believe in a deity/afterlife. It's exploited by religious leaders and clerics, who weave fantastical stories to brainwash the gullible.

Throughout history there've been countless examples of the powerful and privileged joining with religious leaders for reasons of mutual patronage. The tribal chiefs/lords/sheiks/kings/emperors/whatever provide the religious leaders with protection, privilege, position, power and in return get the religious leaders imploring their followers to respect and be obedient to the [political] leaders.

When it comes to war, religion is the tool used in many cases to mobilise and motivate the masses to fight. But you're right that those driving the wars will be doing so for power/wealth/ego reasons.

I guess also, nationalism is a form of religious belief.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #13 on: April 8, 2022, 12:29:59 pm »

Religion has been - and in some still-devout/backward regions, still is - a powerful tool to be wielded by those in power, to control the minds of the masses.

We all know of the 'god gene' that has humans (not all?) predisposed to believe in a deity/afterlife. It's exploited by religious leaders and clerics, who weave fantastical stories to brainwash the gullible.

Throughout history there've been countless examples of the powerful and privileged joining with religious leaders for reasons of mutual patronage. The tribal chiefs/lords/sheiks/kings/emperors/whatever provide the religious leaders with protection, privilege, position, power and in return get the religious leaders imploring their followers to respect and be obedient to the [political] leaders.

When it comes to war, religion is the tool used in many cases to mobilise and motivate the masses to fight. But you're right that those driving the wars will be doing so for power/wealth/ego reasons.

I guess also, nationalism is a form of religious belief.


I've always believed that the three biggest betrayals of human kind were religion, patriotism and the work ethic.

All three pushed onto the masses by the rich and powerful and designed to control, manipulate and mobilise for their own ends. Driven, as you say, by power, wealth and ego reasons.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #14 on: April 8, 2022, 12:36:02 pm »
I've always believed that the three biggest betrayals of human kind were religion, patriotism and the work ethic.

All three pushed onto the masses by the rich and powerful and designed to control, manipulate and mobilise for their own ends. Driven, as you say, by power, wealth and ego reasons.


 :thumbup
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #15 on: April 8, 2022, 12:56:09 pm »
John Oliver did a segment on this on Last Week Tonight, couple of months ago, available on Youtube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U

Brilliant as ever.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #16 on: April 8, 2022, 12:57:27 pm »
I've always believed that the three biggest betrayals of human kind were religion, patriotism and the work ethic.

All three pushed onto the masses by the rich and powerful and designed to control, manipulate and mobilise for their own ends. Driven, as you say, by power, wealth and ego reasons.

 :thumbup

Well done mentioning the work ethic.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #17 on: April 8, 2022, 01:30:10 pm »
John Oliver did a segment on this on Last Week Tonight, couple of months ago, available on Youtube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICp1vGlh_U


Just watched that all the way through. It's superb; a masterpiece.

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #18 on: April 8, 2022, 01:43:30 pm »

Religion has been - and in some still-devout/backward regions, still is - a powerful tool to be wielded by those in power, to control the minds of the masses.

We all know of the 'god gene' that has humans (not all?) predisposed to believe in a deity/afterlife. It's exploited by religious leaders and clerics, who weave fantastical stories to brainwash the gullible.

Throughout history there've been countless examples of the powerful and privileged joining with religious leaders for reasons of mutual patronage. The tribal chiefs/lords/sheiks/kings/emperors/whatever provide the religious leaders with protection, privilege, position, power and in return get the religious leaders imploring their followers to respect and be obedient to the [political] leaders.

When it comes to war, religion is the tool used in many cases to mobilise and motivate the masses to fight. But you're right that those driving the wars will be doing so for power/wealth/ego reasons.

I guess also, nationalism is a form of religious belief.

Didn't I just say that? :)
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #19 on: April 8, 2022, 02:03:36 pm »
Didn't I just say that? :)


You seemed to be absolving religion of any blame. I'm saying it isn't blameless.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #20 on: April 8, 2022, 02:21:28 pm »

You seemed to be absolving religion of any blame. I'm saying it isn't blameless.

You said 'Religion is a powerful tool'

If someone kills someone with a tool like a gun, is the gun to blame or the person that killed someone?

I'd go with the murderer myself. The gun is just an object.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #21 on: April 8, 2022, 02:25:41 pm »
You said 'Religion is a powerful tool'

If someone kills someone with a tool like a gun, is the gun to blame or the person that killed someone?

I'd go with the murderer myself. The gun is just an object.

Maybe the US needs stricter religion control regulation as well as gun control.

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #22 on: April 8, 2022, 02:31:24 pm »
Maybe the US needs stricter religion control regulation as well as gun control.

I guess that this is why it's a difficult subject for some.

I would imagine, for instance, that most Christians in the UK wouldn't even begin to recognise some of the variations of it in the US - many of which seem literally anti-Christian

Their ideas seem the opposite of the ideas presented in the Bible for instance..

(But we're going off topic now.. so will leave it there..)
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #23 on: April 8, 2022, 02:31:24 pm »
You said 'Religion is a powerful tool'

If someone kills someone with a tool like a gun, is the gun to blame or the person that killed someone?

I'd go with the murderer myself. The gun is just an object.


That's not really the same, is it?

Religion distorts and manipulates the minds of people. Makes them more pliable for malevolent forces wanting to control them.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #24 on: April 8, 2022, 02:34:38 pm »
I guess that this is why it's a difficult subject for some.

I would imagine, for instance, that most Christians in the UK wouldn't even begin to recognise some of the variations of it in the US - many of which seem literally anti-Christian

Their ideas seem the opposite of the ideas presented in the Bible for instance..

(But we're going off topic now.. so will leave it there..)


Go back a couple hundred years and the two are very alike. Wasn't that long ago they were burning and drowning women by the dozen in this country for 'being a witch'. Blasphemy laws were only fully repealed in England in 2008 (and remain in place in backwater called Northern Ireland)
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #25 on: April 8, 2022, 02:35:32 pm »
I guess that this is why it's a difficult subject for some.

I would imagine, for instance, that most Christians in the UK wouldn't even begin to recognise some of the variations of it in the US - many of which seem literally anti-Christian

Their ideas seem the opposite of the ideas presented in the Bible for instance..

(But we're going off topic now.. so will leave it there..)

They're not though,many of them use the bible how they do precisely because it's a book full of bigoted,outdated and downright evil "instructions".
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #26 on: April 8, 2022, 02:44:45 pm »
They're not though,many of them use the bible how they do precisely because it's a book full of bigoted,outdated and downright evil "instructions".

Not true. The ones I've been arsed to look at are citing 'laws' from the Old Testament.

This is literally anti-Christian as the New Testament, many of the 'laws' of the Old Testament were replaced by Christ.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #27 on: April 8, 2022, 02:53:45 pm »
The term Critical race theory has been around for decades but I hadn't heard much  about it till the last few years so who has made it a issue today, the Civil rights, BLM movement or the Right wing?
Ive always looked at it as Institutional racism which is rampant in the US. I think it should be taught at schools as part of the curriculum. the effect of the 3 strikes and out laws should always be a warning to us all, how the right wing and private company's can work together to turn the public against none whites to make massive profits, using racism as a weapon is sickening.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #28 on: April 8, 2022, 03:05:38 pm »
The term Critical race theory has been around for decades but I hadn't heard much  about it till the last few years so who has made it a issue today, the Civil rights, BLM movement or the Right wing?
Ive always looked at it as Institutional racism which is rampant in the US. I think it should be taught at schools as part of the curriculum. the effect of the 3 strikes and out laws should always be a warning to us all, how the right wing and private company's can work together to turn the public against none whites to make massive profits, using racism as a weapon is sickening.

Brexit pretty much used the same arguments from what I've seen of it so far (But similar to most things - it's a lot more extreme in America where organisations liek the KKK have been around for hundeds of years)

My concern is that the UK seems to be getting more extreme from all sides by the day. It's seemed to me that the Tories have long lusted after the idea of the UK being as similar to the US as possible.

The stripping of rights and protections seem to all lead down that path.
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #29 on: April 8, 2022, 03:08:46 pm »
The term Critical race theory has been around for decades but I hadn't heard much  about it till the last few years so who has made it a issue today, the Civil rights, BLM movement or the Right wing?
Ive always looked at it as Institutional racism which is rampant in the US. I think it should be taught at schools as part of the curriculum. the effect of the 3 strikes and out laws should always be a warning to us all, how the right wing and private company's can work together to turn the public against none whites to make massive profits, using racism as a weapon is sickening.

Watch the John Oliver piece mate.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #30 on: April 8, 2022, 03:58:40 pm »
The trouble with the CRT argument is the same as it is with anything political in America (and by extension here): the culture's binary good/bad, black/white outlook makes it impossible to have a nuanced conversation.

Ideally, we would be able to acknowledge and discuss the role slavery played in the  industrial revolution and development of western economies and how its ramifications echo to this day. Unfortunately, the discussion often seems to run along binary lines that frame western nations and 'whiteness' itself as inherently evil and oppressive, and current day citizens as indivisible from the people who were around centuries ago.

In practice, much like intersectionality, the concept may be sound but in practice its main achievement seems to have been to solidify the divisions between people of different ethnicities and cement some of those people in an underclass characterised as unavoidable. But pepole were having these same discussions decades ago, it's just the term that's new.

Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #31 on: April 8, 2022, 05:50:43 pm »
CRT has been around for decades as a discusion in high education.It's only in recent years the right-wing talking heads have pushed it into k-12 schools.It's just another of the scare tactics they use to keep people uneducated and on edge.Throw in THE LEFT,BLM,statues,Gay rights,Fentynal,immigrants.All aimed at siring up the confused white folk and keeping the money flowing into the shithead republican party.14 words fucking shite. 

« Last Edit: April 8, 2022, 05:53:44 pm by Boston always unofficial »

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #32 on: April 8, 2022, 06:26:15 pm »
Brexit pretty much used the same arguments from what I've seen of it so far (But similar to most things - it's a lot more extreme in America where organisations liek the KKK have been around for hundeds of years)

My concern is that the UK seems to be getting more extreme from all sides by the day. It's seemed to me that the Tories have long lusted after the idea of the UK being as similar to the US as possible.

The stripping of rights and protections seem to all lead down that path.
Yes, one of the biggest fears for the right is education and debate which imo should begin at school. I think this is why the right wing are so fearful and angry over critical race theory, the last thing they need is for schools to educate young people to be able to question what they are being told by politicians and media. this just doesn't apply to critical race theory it applies to all properganda which brings in Brexit.
Watch the John Oliver piece mate.
Brilliant.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2022, 11:25:36 am »
I don't think it's exclusively a US problem really although the right-wing here stir up and weaponise their own types of 'panics' all the time.

For confused white people, especially men, weaponising CRT and things like the Great Replacement theory are an easy place to point blame for whatever failings are in their life/their community or whatever.

What's worrying is that you're getting complete randoms turning up to school boards in America moaning about "CRT" thinking it's their moral crusade to do so. These sorts of things only ever end up in people hurting themselves/others as they're so sure it's their moral duty, worrying.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 11:27:09 am by RainbowFlick »
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Offline HomesickRed

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2022, 12:15:53 am »
Reluctant to get into such a toxic debate but whilst historic racism in the USA was off the scale, reintroducing it front and centre to every decision in a modern setting to guarantee 'equity' and quotas etc is not a theory accepted by everyone. Far from it. Question is, does stigmatising white people for the sins of their fathers help future harmony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHqZT-NsxE

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2022, 07:26:59 am »
Reluctant to get into such a toxic debate but whilst historic racism in the USA was off the scale, reintroducing it front and centre to every decision in a modern setting to guarantee 'equity' and quotas etc is not a theory accepted by everyone. Far from it. Question is, does stigmatising white people for the sins of their fathers help future harmony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHqZT-NsxE
I think she's being a bit disingenuous there HsR.
History doesn't stigmatise white people, it educates them. And what would help 'future harmony', among other things, is if white people refrained from impacting the voting rights of black people.

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2022, 09:33:15 am »
Reluctant to get into such a toxic debate but whilst historic racism in the USA was off the scale, reintroducing it front and centre to every decision in a modern setting to guarantee 'equity' and quotas etc is not a theory accepted by everyone. Far from it. Question is, does stigmatising white people for the sins of their fathers help future harmony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHqZT-NsxE
I think she's being a bit disingenuous there HsR.
History doesn't stigmatise white people, it educates them. And what would help 'future harmony', among other things, is if white people refrained from impacting the voting rights of black people.

Kimi Katit's arguments are really confused. She appears to not understand what 'Critical (Race) Theory' means - it's literal meaning reflecting its use in practice. Does she understand the academic use of the words 'critical' and 'theory'? I don't think she does. I note that she is from South Africa, and although she has lived in the US for eight years, she appears to not understand just how institutionalised racism is in the US.

What I find interesting is how unknown people like Katit - with an obvious poor understanding of the subject at hand - are elevated and used by people to criticise and target arguments simply because they are apparently from the disadvantaged group under discussion. It's a really shitty and disingenuous way to critique Critical Race Theory (or any other topic). It is a form propaganda and exemplifies the fear some (white) people have about the discussion taking place at all. Only an idiot would argue that black people are not institutionally disadvantaged in the US. All CRT does is 'critique' and 'theorize' the subject matter. It is also worth mentioning that CRT is studied at university level - 'children' are not being 'indoctrinated' into anything. People arguing against CRT are really just arguing for the status quo because it suits and advantages them to do so.
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Offline John C

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2022, 01:21:47 pm »
Yep Jiminy, I meant to mention that she's from SA also. Makes a difference from a US context on racism.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2022, 01:50:13 pm »
Reluctant to get into such a toxic debate but whilst historic racism in the USA was off the scale, reintroducing it front and centre to every decision in a modern setting to guarantee 'equity' and quotas etc is not a theory accepted by everyone. Far from it. Question is, does stigmatising white people for the sins of their fathers help future harmony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHqZT-NsxE

I really think you need to read a bit more and stop relying on YouTube. No one is ‘reintroducing racism’ into modern America. It has never gone away. From voter suppression, to the systemised prosecution and incarceration of young black men, inequalities in housing and education, gerrymandering of voting districts, demonisation of black men as naturally aggressive and sexually predatory, the reintroduction of Jim Crow laws in southern states, the eulogising of the Confederacy as some glorious age that was destroyed just because they wanted ‘States Rights’ and of course the fact that ‘driving while black’ or ‘jogging while black’ were regarded as capital offences… 

White nationalist terrorise has been the main terrorist threat in the US for years. Fuelled by the big lie that the white race is under attack.

And just to be clear - it’s not about punishing people for the sins of their fathers. It’s pointing out that their fathers set up a system that exploited black people and is still operating in the same way today.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 01:52:54 pm by Alan_X »
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Re: Critical Race Theory
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2022, 02:37:29 pm »
I really think you need to read a bit more and stop relying on YouTube. No one is ‘reintroducing racism’ into modern America. It has never gone away. From voter suppression, to the systemised prosecution and incarceration of young black men, inequalities in housing and education, gerrymandering of voting districts, demonisation of black men as naturally aggressive and sexually predatory, the reintroduction of Jim Crow laws in southern states, the eulogising of the Confederacy as some glorious age that was destroyed just because they wanted ‘States Rights’ and of course the fact that ‘driving while black’ or ‘jogging while black’ were regarded as capital offences… 

White nationalist terrorise has been the main terrorist threat in the US for years. Fuelled by the big lie that the white race is under attack.

And just to be clear - it’s not about punishing people for the sins of their fathers. It’s pointing out that their fathers set up a system that exploited black people and is still operating in the same way today.
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