Topic: Merseyrail - now with added 777

[Red Beret]

What a fucking bellend.

It's the last station mate, can't you hold off on your fucking WhatsApp messages until then?  No sympathy for him.

[jillcwhomever]

That's good no leaving the house at 6.40 anymore that's a relief.

[Yosser0_0]

When thinking about the reduced Merseyrail services, I suppose it could be worse:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubhEpIBbD20

[Thepooloflife]

The reason behind the Kirkby station crash;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60322821

Sacked and due for sentencing.......presumably lost his pension too you'd think (at 59, an ample one at that) ?

[So… Howard Philips]

Sacked and due for sentencing.......presumably lost his pension too you'd think (at 59, an ample one at that) ?

I'm pretty sure he won't lose his pension. If he's sent down it would probably be frozen whilst he was inside.

[Thepooloflife]

I'm pretty sure he won't lose his pension. If he's sent down it would probably be frozen whilst he was inside.

Yeah, I did wonder. I only queried 'cos when I worked in the NHS a work colleague was sacked and he lost his NHS pension - public sector mind, so could be different in what is the private rail sector now.

[jillcwhomever]

Any one having to go into work the clerk at my local station believes there is a huge chance of their being no trains after mid-day tomorrow. So, if you can avoid leaving the house I really would stay off and not put yourself through it.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah, I did wonder. I only queried 'cos when I worked in the NHS a work colleague was sacked and he lost his NHS pension - public sector mind, so could be different in what is the private rail sector now.

It looks like the NHS can remedy any loss due to fraud from your pension but not the who,e of the pension.
https://faq.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/knowledgebase/article/KA-04628/en-us

[Red Beret]

I know some might disagree, but I think losing his job and likely having a custodial sentence is sufficient punishment. I understand that people could have been seriously injured, even killed, but I think taking the guy's pension would be extreme.

[Thepooloflife]

It looks like the NHS can remedy any loss due to fraud from your pension but not the who,e of the pension.
https://faq.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/knowledgebase/article/KA-04628/en-us

Yeah, can't remember the exact circumstances now as it was nearly 20 years ago - it was for gross misconduct for theft though. We were just told he lost his pension, but as you've pointed out may have just been a part of it.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah, can't remember the exact circumstances now as it was nearly 20 years ago - it was for gross misconduct for theft though. We were just told he lost his pension, but as you've pointed out may have just been a part of it.

I'm pretty sure a pension is treated as a property right and, other than through a court, pretty difficult to take those rights away.

Unless you are Robert Maxwell or Sir Phillip Green.

[Red Beret]

Well I remember that Dr Shipman lost his pension, but his wife didn't. When he offed himself in prison she got the spouse's pension, but I don't know if she collected a lump sum or anything.

(I used to work in pensions, although not the NHS.)

[timmit]

Any one having to go into work the clerk at my local station believes there is a huge chance of their being no trains after mid-day tomorrow. So, if you can avoid leaving the house I really would stay off and not put yourself through it.

Definitely a possibility. If the wind is as bad as expected there will almost certainly no replacement buses either. As Jill says, try to stay home, certainly don’t rely on public transport.

[rob1966]

I know some might disagree, but I think losing his job and likely having a custodial sentence is sufficient punishment. I understand that people could have been seriously injured, even killed, but I think taking the guy's pension would be extreme.

Yeah agree with that, being out of work and never able to drive a train again and going to prison at his age should be enough.

[Red Beret]

I'm on the train home from Waterloo. Just pulled into sandhills, which is probably the most exposed station south of Crosby or aintree. Thankfully no indication trains are going off, but you can't half hear the wind.

[timmit]

No real impact all day, a tree on the Wirral and thats about it.

[Red Beret]

Early trains tomorrow are apparently going to be cancelled as Merseyrail are planning to run some trains through without passengers to check on the condition of the lines. It didn't say how early, but I'm assuming very early, but be sure to check timetables.

[Red Beret]

No, I agree - I don't know what the solution is at Central. Those reports only suggest that the problem is recognised and that 'Work is currently underway to understand what interventions may be required' - to alleviate the overcrowding there. They do suggest things like wider platforms and improved escalator provision - but, that's not exactly going to be a longer term solution to the forecast growth in numbers using the station. Also mentions the new trains would have bigger capacity, but as mentioned already, most of that extra capacity will be standing - so not ideal.

I've been rolling this around in my head the past few weeks.

I read up again on the old St James Place station on Wikipedia, and it been updated to mention that a station in Chinatown by the Black-E was also under consideration, and arguably had a better business case. It could well be that such a station follows the new St James Place station towards the end of the current decade.

In terms of the congestion at Central, my only real idea has been reinstating some form of high level station close to where Exchange Street station used to be, and diverting the Kirkby and Ormskirk trains there. Much of the original infrastructure to divert a rail line is still there.  There's a building site in the way, but it seems to be one of those ventures that has collapsed as no work seems to have been done for at least 12 months.  If push came to shove, then maybe a new line could be diverted around the project.

It wouldn't need to be a big station - maybe four platforms, with some sidings. I realise it would be a pain in the arse for people used to getting off at Central, but it would likely only add about 10 minutes walking to somebody's journey. If they're really that desperate, they could always change at Sandhills.

Central can't be expanded, and there's only so much lipstick you can put on the pig, so to speak. If they're serious about dealing with congestion and managing footfall at peak times, then what needs to be done is  divert trains away from the station.

[rob1966]

I've been rolling this around in my head the past few weeks.

I read up again on the old St James Place station on Wikipedia, and it been updated to mention that a station in Chinatown by the Black-E was also under consideration, and arguably had a better business case. It could well be that such a station follows the new St James Place station towards the end of the current decade.

In terms of the congestion at Central, my only real idea has been reinstating some form of high level station close to where Exchange Street station used to be, and diverting the Kirkby and Ormskirk trains there. Much of the original infrastructure to divert a rail line is still there.  There's a building site in the way, but it seems to be one of those ventures that has collapsed as no work seems to have been done for at least 12 months.  If push came to shove, then maybe a new line could be diverted around the project.

It wouldn't need to be a big station - maybe four platforms, with some sidings. I realise it would be a pain in the arse for people used to getting off at Central, but it would likely only add about 10 minutes walking to somebody's journey. If they're really that desperate, they could always change at Sandhills.

Central can't be expanded, and there's only so much lipstick you can put on the pig, so to speak. If they're serious about dealing with congestion and managing footfall at peak times, then what needs to be done is  divert trains away from the station.

I remember as a kid getting the train into town and getting off at Exchange Street. Like you say its not that far a walk, but these days people are lazy fuckers and won't walk that far, although they could get a train from Moorfields to Central.

I can still remember seeing them building the new tunnel to Central and the first time we went into Central on the new line. We didn't know it was open and suddenly we were dropping down into the tunnel, big thing when you are 10.

[Red Beret]

I remember as a kid getting the train into town and getting off at Exchange Street. Like you say its not that far a walk, but these days people are lazy fuckers and won't walk that far, although they could get a train from Moorfields to Central.

I can still remember seeing them building the new tunnel to Central and the first time we went into Central on the new line. We didn't know it was open and suddenly we were dropping down into the tunnel, big thing when you are 10.

I wasn't much more than a baby when the loop line opened, so I don't really remember much from that period. But as a kid I grew up getting the older 503s to New Brighton, and I loved them so much. They seemed so warm and cosy with their wood panelling and fluted light fixtures. But I only ever used them in the summer, and they were probably bloody awful to commute on in the wintertime.

I have no memories of either Exchange Street or Central high level, but I think there's a business case for adding such a station on the line. The only way to reduce the congestion is to divert trains and build new stations, and it makes sense to use what's still lying around.

[Thepooloflife]

I wasn't much more than a baby when the loop line opened, so I don't really remember much from that period. But as a kid I grew up getting the older 503s to New Brighton, and I loved them so much. They seemed so warm and cosy with their wood panelling and fluted light fixtures. But I only ever used them in the summer, and they were probably bloody awful to commute on in the wintertime.

I have no memories of either Exchange Street or Central high level, but I think there's a business case for adding such a station on the line. The only way to reduce the congestion is to divert trains and build new stations, and it makes sense to use what's still lying around.

I remember the loop line opening - was in my early 20's then and I thought it was amazing at the time, ha ! Also loved them trains back then - think they had warm comfy soft fabric furnishings, which seemed better than todays anyway......except when they went through tunnels when the top windows shook like hell !

[Red Beret]

Has the company upgrading St Michael's station gone bust?  Looks like no work has been done for weeks. No HGVs or workers on site at all. They can't be waiting for the concrete to set...

[So… Howard Philips]

Has the company upgrading St Michael's station gone bust?  Looks like no work has been done for weeks. No HGVs or workers on site at all. They can't be waiting for the concrete to set...

Went through it the other day. Last time I was there was back in November so nothing seems to have happened in 3 months.

[Red Beret]

Went through it the other day. Last time I was there was back in November so nothing seems to have happened in 3 months.

Yeah. I always thought this estimate was hopelessly optimistic given the design and what needed to be done. At this rate, we'll be lucky to see the work done by the start of summer.

Aiming to have them in by the end of January 2022. Not ideal as it gets colder/icier but should make a huge difference to accessibility

It does look strange with 2 holes poking out of the side of the building

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I wasn't much more than a baby when the loop line opened, so I don't really remember much from that period. But as a kid I grew up getting the older 503s to New Brighton, and I loved them so much. They seemed so warm and cosy with their wood panelling and fluted light fixtures. But I only ever used them in the summer, and they were probably bloody awful to commute on in the wintertime.

I have no memories of either Exchange Street or Central high level, but I think there's a business case for adding such a station on the line. The only way to reduce the congestion is to divert trains and build new stations, and it makes sense to use what's still lying around.

I remember catching trains into town in the early 70's. Back then there were electrics and diesels on the Southport to Liverpool line. The electrics would go to Exchange and the diesels would go via tunnels to Lime St. My memories are a bit sketchy, but the diesels would branch off around Bankhall and get into Lime St via a load of tunnels.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah. I always thought this estimate was hopelessly optimistic given the design and what needed to be done. At this rate, we'll be lucky to see the work done by the start of summer.

Went through St Michaels today and there was a bloke in a hi vis jacket moving a few breeze blocks about so progress!

[So… Howard Philips]

Driver sentenced for Kirkby crash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60663152

[Red Beret]

Driver sentenced for Kirkby crash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60663152

Guess he can count himself lucky. Still, a 35 year career flushed down the drain.

Does make you wonder though, what your driver is up to?  Potentially could have hit Merseyrail's reputation hard.

[Red Beret]

I remember catching trains into town in the early 70's. Back then there were electrics and diesels on the Southport to Liverpool line. The electrics would go to Exchange and the diesels would go via tunnels to Lime St. My memories are a bit sketchy, but the diesels would branch off around Bankhall and get into Lime St via a load of tunnels.

That's interesting, because Exchange Street closed when Moorfields opened. To my knowledge, the Loop didn't open till about 79?  That's the only way I know of to get to Lime Street via tunnels.

Maybe that section of the Loop opened first and ran diesels until the rest of the line was finished?  Did you walk from Exchange to Moorfields?

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

That's interesting, because Exchange Street closed when Moorfields opened. To my knowledge, the Loop didn't open till about 79?  That's the only way I know of to get to Lime Street via tunnels.

Maybe that section of the Loop opened first and ran diesels until the rest of the line was finished?  Did you walk from Exchange to Moorfields?

I think this was pre Merseyrail and pre loop when the main terminus on the Southport line was exchange.
I just remember in the holidays my grandad would look after us and take us all over the place on trains buses and ferries and sometimes we'd let a couple of electric trains for Exchange go past and wait for a diesel to take us into Lime St because to a kid it was a bit different and exciting!
I just googled Exchange which shut in '77 and half way down this article is a map of what the lines looked like pre loop.
http://disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_exchange/index.shtml
From the map, it looks ike I was wrong about Bankhall, looks like the diesels for Lime St branched off just after Oriel Rd, but you can see the route into Lime St.
As I said, my memories are sketchy and maybe I just remember the steep cuttings on the way in from Edge Hill. But I'm pretty sure there were some tunnels on that route!!
Either way, it's pretty nostalgic looking back.

[bradders1011]

Quick question as I may move near Wigan - is the Wigan-Lime Street line operating on a lower timetable or is it at its usual pace right now?

[Thepooloflife]

I think this was pre Merseyrail and pre loop when the main terminus on the Southport line was exchange.
I just remember in the holidays my grandad would look after us and take us all over the place on trains buses and ferries and sometimes we'd let a couple of electric trains for Exchange go past and wait for a diesel to take us into Lime St because to a kid it was a bit different and exciting!
I just googled Exchange which shut in '77 and half way down this article is a map of what the lines looked like pre loop.
http://disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_exchange/index.shtml
From the map, it looks ike I was wrong about Bankhall, looks like the diesels for Lime St branched off just after Oriel Rd, but you can see the route into Lime St.
As I said, my memories are sketchy and maybe I just remember the steep cuttings on the way in from Edge Hill. But I'm pretty sure there were some tunnels on that route!!
Either way, it's pretty nostalgic looking back.

Yeah, Exchange closed in 1977 - the Loop including Moorfields opened the same year, in fact within a few days of services from Exchange ending, according to Wiki. I remember as a child going with my mum and dad from Exchange to the sandhills at Freshfield.....that was like our holidays ! But, I only seem to remember the trains we went on being electric, confirming what you mentioned earlier.

[Red Beret]

I think this was pre Merseyrail and pre loop when the main terminus on the Southport line was exchange.
I just remember in the holidays my grandad would look after us and take us all over the place on trains buses and ferries and sometimes we'd let a couple of electric trains for Exchange go past and wait for a diesel to take us into Lime St because to a kid it was a bit different and exciting!
I just googled Exchange which shut in '77 and half way down this article is a map of what the lines looked like pre loop.
http://disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_exchange/index.shtml
From the map, it looks ike I was wrong about Bankhall, looks like the diesels for Lime St branched off just after Oriel Rd, but you can see the route into Lime St.
As I said, my memories are sketchy and maybe I just remember the steep cuttings on the way in from Edge Hill. But I'm pretty sure there were some tunnels on that route!!
Either way, it's pretty nostalgic looking back.

Ah yeah. Looks like you followed what is now the goods' line from the shipping terminal, which skirts Anfield Cemetery, along the curve towards Edge Hill Junction. According to Wikipedia, it closed to passenger traffic in 1977. There's a few tunnels along the route, mostly following the usual route into Lime Street, but a fair few on the loop around. 

EDIT: this is a nicely detailed picture on Wikipedia highlighting the old network. I'm sure a fair bit of the infrastructure still exists today.

[Statto Red]

Yeah, Exchange closed in 1977 - the Loop including Moorfields opened the same year, in fact within a few days of services from Exchange ending, according to Wiki. I remember as a child going with my mum and dad from Exchange to the sandhills at Freshfield.....that was like our holidays ! But, I only seem to remember the trains we went on being electric, confirming what you mentioned earlier.

When you look at Moorfields, the main entrance & ticket hall was built above ground [which is unique for an underground station] as the plan was to build a new bus station nearby replacing the bus station at the Pier Head, & using overhead walkways from Moorfields to connect to the bus station, however plans for the new bus station & walkway was scrapped on cost grounds, & Moorfields has been the same ever since it opened.

[Red Beret]

When you look at Moorfields, the main entrance & ticket hall was built above ground [which is unique for an underground station] as the plan was to build a new bus station nearby replacing the bus station at the Pier Head, & using overhead walkways from Moorfields to connect to the bus station, however plans for the new bus station & walkway was scrapped on cost grounds, & Moorfields has been the same ever since it opened.

Yeah. The much fabled "city in the sky" project, that intended to use walkways to link areas all over the city. That pretty much died a death. Now they just pedestrianise roads and leave nowhere for the cars to go.

In Dingle, you had to go to an underground station to catch the overhead railway. It's equally ironic that, at Moorfields, you have to take an escalator up to access an underground station.

[Statto Red]

Yeah. The much fabled "city in the sky" project, that intended to use walkways to link areas all over the city. That pretty much died a death. Now they just pedestrianise roads and leave nowhere for the cars to go.

In Dingle, you had to go to an underground station to catch the overhead railway. It's equally ironic that, at Moorfields, you have to take an escalator up to access an underground station.

Speaking of the old overhead railway, the only evidences the overhead railway existed is a disused tunnel in Dingle[the entrance is near the Merseyrail Dingle tunnel, just to the right of the Merseyrail tunnel when you look from the roundabout on Sefton Street/Riverside Drive], the old Dingle station was used as car repair shop until a few years ago when it suffered from subsidence, in fact here's the entrance to the tunnel.



 

[John_P]

Walked through the tunnel about 2 months before it collapsed.

The exhibit about the overhead railway at the Museum of Liverpool is good as well, they've got the only surviving carriage on display as well

[Thepooloflife]

Walked through the tunnel about 2 months before it collapsed.

The exhibit about the overhead railway at the Museum of Liverpool is good as well, they've got the only surviving carriage on display as well

They have indeed and brilliant it is too - and you can go inside to 'experience' a ride as it were ! I just about vaguely remember the overhead as a toddler.....at least going underneath it !

[CornerFlag]

Speaking of the old overhead railway, the only evidences the overhead railway existed is a disused tunnel in Dingle[the entrance is near the Merseyrail Dingle tunnel, just to the right of the Merseyrail tunnel when you look from the roundabout on Sefton Street/Riverside Drive], the old Dingle station was used as car repair shop until a few years ago when it suffered from subsidence, in fact here's the entrance to the tunnel.



 

There's a few of the support columns around Wapping, Huskisson and Clarence Docks too but that's about it.  As much as I think it would be an amazing thing to have now, you wonder how much pushback there would be if such a thing was ever proposed.

[Red Beret]

Rebuilding the Overhead Railway would likely cost more than Everton's new stadium. Hell, the Labour government pulled the plug on Merseytram at £170m and that was in the 2000's.

It would be a great way to get around the city centre, and probably ease the burden on a big stretch of the Northern line, but the cost and disruption for construction would be prohibitive.