Author Topic: Harry Maguire considering his options thread  (Read 3278118 times)

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39840 on: August 15, 2022, 03:03:17 pm »
We were never this toxic mate. Even during that period,there were still positives. They've now gone 15 years without a European cup and 10 years without a title and they aren't winning either anytime soon.

The more they spend, the worse they get. We only had to watch one rival win while they have to watch two. Imagine watching and the Ev winning things.

It's like you're remembering only football matters ;D In purely football matters it may be a toss up, but let's revisit this when they're facing a real threat of extinction. Until then you're comparing a paper cut to open heart surgery.

Offline JRed

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39841 on: August 15, 2022, 03:03:27 pm »
No way they will expose him to that, Varane will start against us surely. It's an awful situation to be in though (well for them), drop him and his confidence will be shot to bits, play him and its a big risk
Was just going to comment the same thing.
If he drops him then he’s admitting the little guy can’t play CB in the PL, if he plays him and Nunez and the others completely dominate him then the little guys confidence will be shot to bits.

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39842 on: August 15, 2022, 03:03:57 pm »
I prefer to imagine him next week against Darwin Nunez.
He makes Maguire look like a world beater.

Offline Tonyh8su

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39843 on: August 15, 2022, 03:04:46 pm »
Imagine him against Stoke 10 years ago. Walters and Jones would've eaten him alive with Pulis nodding on in encouragement

Are you asking if they could do it on a cold, wet night in Stoke?

Offline Qston

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39844 on: August 15, 2022, 03:04:47 pm »
We were never this toxic mate. Even during that period,there were still positives. They've now gone 15 years without a European cup and 10 years without a title and they aren't winning either anytime soon.

The more they spend, the worse they get. We only had to watch one rival win while they have to watch two. Imagine watching and the Ev winning things.

Vast difference between on and off the pitch though. Off the pitch toxic doesn`t come close to an apt description. Those 2 cancers were sinking us
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline Qston

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39845 on: August 15, 2022, 03:05:10 pm »
It's like you're remembering only football matters ;D In purely football matters it may be a toss up, but let's revisit this when they're facing a real threat of extinction. Until then you're comparing a paper cut to open heart surgery.

Just noticed you beat me to it Gerry.
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Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39846 on: August 15, 2022, 03:06:07 pm »
It's like you're remembering only football matters ;D In purely football matters it may be a toss up, but let's revisit this when they're facing a real threat of extinction. Until then you're comparing a paper cut to open heart surgery.
I've blocked it out. It was a very anxious wait until FSG bought us. They've done very well.

I remember one tosser called Kenny Hwang was also interested.

Offline Tonyh8su

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39847 on: August 15, 2022, 03:10:30 pm »
Was just going to comment the same thing.
If he drops him then he’s admitting the little guy can’t play CB in the PL, if he plays him and Nunez and the others completely dominate him then the little guys confidence will be shot to bits.

He’ll hardly let this happen already though, Willow? I mean….will he?

Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39848 on: August 15, 2022, 03:27:40 pm »
Cannavaro was one where he played like a much bigger defender.  His reading of the game, his strength and his aggression to compete from the optimum position meant to won so many balls he shouldn't have.  He is the same height as Martinez.

That Cannavaro is so memorable is telling in itself, I can't think of another elite central defender of similar stature.  We sometimes worry about Gomez and he's 6ft 2in!
His five seconds against Germany in 2006 are some of the best pieces of individual defending. Towering header, closes down the next player, simple pass and then gets his team 60 yards up the pitch before they  score.
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Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39849 on: August 15, 2022, 03:30:54 pm »
Cannavaro was one where he played like a much bigger defender.  His reading of the game, his strength and his aggression to compete from the optimum position meant to won so many balls he shouldn't have.  He is the same height as Martinez.

That Cannavaro is so memorable is telling in itself, I can't think of another elite central defender of similar stature.  We sometimes worry about Gomez and he's 6ft 2in!
Baresi wasn't bad as well.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39850 on: August 15, 2022, 03:39:08 pm »
Baresi wasn't bad as well.
Good shout, same for Puyol further up this page!  I guess Azpilicueta and Thiago Silva are probably the best examples in the PL.  Baresi aside who was a classic sweeper the rest were/are all very aggressive which Martinez hasn't demonstrated yet.

In fairness to Martinez that Bournemouth front two caused us a lot of problems in the 3-3 last season.  We didn't lose 4-0 though  :wave

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39851 on: August 15, 2022, 03:42:54 pm »
Lucas did a fine job as a stand-in CB for us!

Height can obviously be an issue but it can be overcome if you're strong, a good reader of the game and have a good leap on you. Martinez displayed none of this though.
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Offline keyop

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39852 on: August 15, 2022, 03:44:08 pm »
It's great to see Ronaldo's career come to an end like this.  ;D
It certainly is, and even more enjoyable considering the hysteria when he joined. The narrative of 'aging ex-player returns to save club' was lapped up by the media and their fans, who bought Ronaldo shirts and followed his Instagram in their millions - oblivious to the fact that was actually the primary reason the club bought him. His personal tally of 18 goals is a smokescreen that hides a poorer (and slower) team setup, a toxic dressing room, 16 less points than 2020/21, 29 less league goals last season, and finishing 4 places lower in the table since they signed him.

They even have that hilarious 'Last Dance' documentary and line of clothing (blatantly plagiarising Netflix), as if Ronaldo is somehow comparable to Michael Jordan (he isn't), and would return to win the title for them (he hasn't, and he won't).

Ronaldo's return has been a microcosm of Utds problems - living in the past, delusions of grandeur, playing to the fans and social media clamour (instead of thinking of the team/brand of football),  buying players that are a poor fit and not good for the dressing room (hello Paul Pogba...), and paying astronomical wages well above market rates.

If someone was to write a book on how not to run a football club, they could just document Utd since 2013 as they've pretty much screwed up everything it's possible to screw up - despite having our post-dominance slump as a reference point, and seeing Klopp build a style and brand of football (with the right players) since 2015. They've had plenty of opportunity (and money) to turn the ship around, but seem to exist in a vacuum, deluded by the United WayTM whilst Fergie watches over like the Ghost of Glories past.

Every year they've suffered helps banish some of those painful memories of their dominance, whilst we overtake their trophy total and retake our perch. The best thing is that we're about 10 years ahead of them in infrastructure, recruitment, analytics, and financial prudence, and have laid foundations that I think makes us less reliant on Jurgen than they were with Ferguson - our success under many different managers also suggests we're a club far more suited to building successive dynasties. Enjoying our success and their demise simultaneously makes it all the more satisfying.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 04:06:56 pm by keyop »
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Offline Mozology

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39853 on: August 15, 2022, 03:52:48 pm »
Years ago a smaller CB could hold a tall striker, prevent him from jumping, now that little to no contact is allowed in the box it's incredibly difficult for shorter CB's

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39854 on: August 15, 2022, 03:54:47 pm »
The Everton/United game in October should be a classic
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Offline Fiasco

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39855 on: August 15, 2022, 03:59:41 pm »
Signing Martinez wasn't a surprise, new managers at clubs often sign someone they've worked with before as a way to integrate their style more smoothly, and of course to have some sort of ally in the dressing room.

It was a very short-signed (pun intended) signing though because he's going to be targeted every single game. Not only in the air, but simply by physically strong forwards running in behind and getting in front of him from full backs providing crosses etc. He's probably a good player in the right system but United are in disarray and adapting during a period of absolute chaos is pretty much impossible. You now have a situation whereby your captain in Maguire shouldn't be playing for you because he's dreadful, and his new partner shouldn't be playing for you because he isn't physically up to it. If you bring in Varane you either have to drop your club captain who cost £70 million or whatever it was or you drop your new signing in that position and admit to the world that you got it wrong (whilst simultaneously giving people ammunition to say that you don't know your arse from your elbow and you don't know what you're doing).

The Martinez situation isn't the main issue there but it just points to a wider issue. They are fucking clueless from top to bottom.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39856 on: August 15, 2022, 03:59:49 pm »
I agree with this United fan:


Vidic struggled in the first 6 months with us then became one of our best cb's ever it's been 2 games give Martinez some time then make a judgement if he's crap after 50 games then so be it but you can't make a call after 2 games especially playing with Maguire.
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39857 on: August 15, 2022, 04:08:27 pm »
We were never this toxic mate. Even during that period,there were still positives. They've now gone 15 years without a European cup and 10 years without a title and they aren't winning either anytime soon.

The more they spend, the worse they get. We only had to watch one rival win while they have to watch two. Imagine watching and the Ev winning things.
I'm not disagreeing or even trying to defend them as a whole. I love seeing them in the state they are, but paradoxically, you're right in saying we were never as bad as them as a fanbase. We were genuinely up shit creek without a paddle, whereas these lot are just a bunch of dummy spitting assholes. The contradiction is that they do have a right to protest their owners, as it's obvious to everyone that they have mismanaged them from top to bottom, yet still spending ludicrous amounts of money doing it. We never even had that luxury.

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39858 on: August 15, 2022, 04:23:51 pm »
In fairness to Martinez that Bournemouth front two caused us a lot of problems in the 3-3 last season.  We didn't lose 4-0 though  :wave
Think you're the second poster to say Bournemouth instead of Brentford. Pro tip: don't turn up at Brentford with a bucket and spade  ;)
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39859 on: August 15, 2022, 04:25:01 pm »

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/UU7POa0j_Es" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/UU7POa0j_Es</a>
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Offline Vote For Pedro

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39860 on: August 15, 2022, 04:37:47 pm »
Think Ten Hag needs to make sure Martinez's confidence isn't shot. Get back on the horse and have him marking Nunez next week  ;D

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39861 on: August 15, 2022, 05:06:38 pm »
Definitely.  Maybe we've all compartmentalised the memories for own sanity but under Gillet and Hicks we were in a dreadful position.  Administration was talked about as a real possibility and our loans were classified as "toxic".  We had Hodgson in who seemed like his only task was minimise expectation and manage a (not so) slow decline of the club.  Even well before then under Souness, Evans and Houllier we'd spent a decade outside of the premier European competition.

For me the huge difference between the fanbases is that there were a fair few of us (myself included) that would have welcomed relegation if it meant getting rid of the owners.

That lot are not prepared to make such a sacrifice. They can't even take the idea that they might have to be shit this season in order to be better next season. After all they already had one major clearout, have a new management structure in place but they are screaming 'This isn't good enough' after two games.

You have to be prepared to go backwards if it means eventually getting to where you want to be but this lot are too full of themselves to ever really contemplate it.

After all, this is Manchester United.

Offline Lusty

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39862 on: August 15, 2022, 05:08:50 pm »
I prefer to imagine him next week against Darwin Nunez.
This is the problem though.  He's come along at the exact worst time, when Liverpool and City have both splashed out on powerful forwards.  Their two biggest rivals have gone out and bought a couple of lumps of kryptonite.

He's lucky that Lukaku has gone because that would have been a disaster.

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39863 on: August 15, 2022, 05:15:14 pm »
We were never this toxic mate. Even during that period, there were still positives. They've now gone 15 years without a European cup and 10 years without a title and they aren't winning either anytime soon.

The more they spend, the worse they get. We only had to watch one rival win while they have to watch two. Imagine watching and the Ev winning things.

Thing is, they are in real danger of becoming the Everton of Manchester. They 'celebrate' City beating us to trophies because that's an actual rivalry, but how much more of this before City actually start to get close to their trophy haul? That may sound mad seeing as it is currently 20 - 8 in favour of the red half, but how silly did it seem that Utd could ever overhaul our 18?

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39864 on: August 15, 2022, 05:18:30 pm »
This is the problem though.  He's come along at the exact worst time, when Liverpool and City have both splashed out on powerful forwards.  Their two biggest rivals have gone out and bought a couple of lumps of kryptonite.

He's lucky that Lukaku has gone because that would have been a disaster.

It isn't just Darwin and the Man City bloke. It's the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Awoniyi, Bamford, Watkins, Antonio, Kane etc. They are players of varying quality but all of them are mobile, aggressive, and technically pretty good as well as tall and dangerous in the air. This is a tough league for a centre back to play in. And it's pretty relentless. You can be sure that Martinez has never been asked to play against opponents like this - and certainly not week after week.

I'm sorry to say that he won't be playing against Liverpool - certainly not at centre back.

Harry Maguire will though....
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39865 on: August 15, 2022, 05:22:59 pm »
Tell you what though, I absolutely loved watching big Kyriakos playing in them games for us.

Strangely, one of the most dominant players I've seen against the brutes was Lucas. Giant heffalump after giant heffalump would lose their shit after getting zero chances against us, with every attempted ball over the top intercepted by this midget with a huge leap.
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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39866 on: August 15, 2022, 05:30:50 pm »
I don`t get this argument that a lot of United fans have about the owners not spending their "own" money on the club. First of all, why do they expect that? That implies that they want owners like City and Newcastle have, or an Abramovic. Most clubs aren`t based on owners spending their "own" money. Secondly, what defines "own money" anyway? If United as a club generates a lot of money now, also because of how the Glaziers have run it, haven`t they been part of making the club more valuable? They own the club, so why then technically isn`t the money that go to signing players, "their" money? Is it the club`s money? If so, why even need owners to begin with?

Yes, the Glaziers take out money of the club. That`s not so uncommon in the stock market. But does that make them bad owners as long as the club becomes more and more worth?

I am not sure if the Glaziers are bad owners because of that. The reason they`re bad is that they can`t put the right people in charge when it comes to the sporting side of things. Would they be bad owners if they had the staff that Liverpool has? If so, why? The problem isn`t that United spend too little money. It`s that they don`t have people who knows how to spend it right. United spend too much money.

Correct me if I`m wrong, but the reason FSG have shown themselves as good owners aren`t because they spend their "own" money. It`s because they know how to gradually grow a business and has bettered the commercial part of the club+ that they have put a system in place/great staff that makes the sporting operation successfull.
   

Offline SamLad

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39867 on: August 15, 2022, 05:39:46 pm »
Was just going to comment the same thing.
If he drops him then he’s admitting the little guy can’t play CB in the PL, if he plays him and Nunez and the others completely dominate him then the little guys confidence will be shot to bits.
he'll put him in midfield vs us. he won't drop him.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39868 on: August 15, 2022, 05:44:05 pm »
Be funny if he does move him to midfield now :

Speaking to ESPN in January 2021, Ten Hag said: "Daley Blind does not have the running capacity to play in midfield. And neither does Martinez."

Offline SamLad

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39869 on: August 15, 2022, 05:45:54 pm »
Be funny if he does move him to midfield now :

Speaking to ESPN in January 2021, Ten Hag said: "Daley Blind does not have the running capacity to play in midfield. And neither does Martinez."

LOL but at that point ETH hadn't been comapring him to McFred, had he?  :)

Offline 4pool

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39870 on: August 15, 2022, 05:48:00 pm »
I don`t get this argument that a lot of United fans have about the owners not spending their "own" money on the club. First of all, why do they expect that? That implies that they want owners like City and Newcastle have, or an Abramovic. Most clubs aren`t based on owners spending their "own" money. Secondly, what defines "own money" anyway? If United as a club generates a lot of money now, also because of how the Glaziers have run it, haven`t they been part of making the club more valuable? They own the club, so why then technically isn`t the money that go to signing players, "their" money? Is it the club`s money? If so, why even need owners to begin with?

Yes, the Glaziers take out money of the club. That`s not so uncommon in the stock market. But does that make them bad owners as long as the club becomes more and more worth?

I am not sure if the Glaziers are bad owners because of that. The reason they`re bad is that they can`t put the right people in charge when it comes to the sporting side of things. Would they be bad owners if they had the staff that Liverpool has? If so, why? The problem isn`t that United spend too little money. It`s that they don`t have people who knows how to spend it right. United spend too much money.

Correct me if I`m wrong, but the reason FSG have shown themselves as good owners aren`t because they spend their "own" money. It`s because they know how to gradually grow a business and has bettered the commercial part of the club+ that they have put a system in place/great staff that makes the sporting operation successfull.
   

Now, now..G. Nev said it's the Glazers fault. That's all you need to know. Toe the company line here, will you..  :missus
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Offline afc tukrish

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39871 on: August 15, 2022, 05:56:15 pm »
Passarella was 5'8"...
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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39872 on: August 15, 2022, 05:59:43 pm »
Thing is, they are in real danger of becoming the Everton of Manchester. They 'celebrate' City beating us to trophies because that's an actual rivalry, but how much more of this before City actually start to get close to their trophy haul? That may sound mad seeing as it is currently 20 - 8 in favour of the red half, but how silly did it seem that Utd could ever overhaul our 18?
I've no doubt that if the sportswashers stay with the ex Man City then they will eclipse the trophy haul of their neighbours.

The only thing stopping the Manc hordes realising this is complacency and shortsightedness.

Of course, the Abu Dhabi trophy haul will be irrelevant to everyone who actually cares about the sport, but the record books will still eventually show the sportswash with a higher trophy count. It's inevitable. Then, the idiots at OT will be crying into their beer.
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Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39873 on: August 15, 2022, 06:02:02 pm »
I don`t get this argument that a lot of United fans have about the owners not spending their "own" money on the club.
There isn't an argument, simply a case of Neville spouting more nonsense and the fans parroting it. Neville is just trying to throw out more reasons why the fans should riot, yet has never called out the ex players and managers within the club who are quite happy with the status quo.

He should know full well that spending more money isn't the solution as they've already spent a £bn, but maybe getting someone else who allows him on the gravy train will be more to his taste.
Some clubs were always destined for greatness...

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39874 on: August 15, 2022, 06:04:54 pm »
I know a Man Utd fan who refuses to acknowledge that they've got the highest net spend.
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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39875 on: August 15, 2022, 06:07:25 pm »
I know a Man Utd fan who refuses to acknowledge that they've got the highest net spend.

How long have you been friends with Gary Neville?
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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39876 on: August 15, 2022, 06:07:30 pm »
I don`t get this argument that a lot of United fans have about the owners not spending their "own" money on the club. First of all, why do they expect that? That implies that they want owners like City and Newcastle have, or an Abramovic. Most clubs aren`t based on owners spending their "own" money. Secondly, what defines "own money" anyway? If United as a club generates a lot of money now, also because of how the Glaziers have run it, haven`t they been part of making the club more valuable? They own the club, so why then technically isn`t the money that go to signing players, "their" money? Is it the club`s money? If so, why even need owners to begin with?

Yes, the Glaziers take out money of the club. That`s not so uncommon in the stock market. But does that make them bad owners as long as the club becomes more and more worth?

I am not sure if the Glaziers are bad owners because of that. The reason they`re bad is that they can`t put the right people in charge when it comes to the sporting side of things. Would they be bad owners if they had the staff that Liverpool has? If so, why? The problem isn`t that United spend too little money. It`s that they don`t have people who knows how to spend it right. United spend too much money.

Correct me if I`m wrong, but the reason FSG have shown themselves as good owners aren`t because they spend their "own" money. It`s because they know how to gradually grow a business and has bettered the commercial part of the club+ that they have put a system in place/great staff that makes the sporting operation successfull.
   

What is great is that a lot of the shitty appointments are people who got in because of references from Whiskey Nose, they are not even directly the fault of Glazers. They can't criticize him so they blame the owner. The Glazers are mostly just clueless rather than malicious. They get taken to the cleaners by Ferguson and the old boys club.

Everyone from Moyes to the more recent clown show of Ole, Carrick, Ronaldo, Fletcher, Murtagh, Schteve etc wouldn't be there had it not been for Ferguson. It's brilliant to see him absolutely ruin em and they can't say a bad word about him.  ;D
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 06:15:25 pm by Max_powers »

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39877 on: August 15, 2022, 06:14:21 pm »
What is great is that a lot of the shitty appointments are people who got in because of references from Whiskey Nose, they are not even directly the fault of Glazers. They can't criticize him so they blame the owner. The Glazers are mostly just clueless rather than malicious. They get taken to the cleaners by the Ferguson and the old boys club.

Everyone from Moyes to the more recent clown show of Ole, Carrick, Ronaldo, Fletcher, Murtagh, Schteve etc wouldn't be there had it not been for Ferguson. It's brilliant to see him absolutely ruin em and they can't say a bad word about him.  ;D

They've sorted all this now. They have a "Think tank" of which Fergie is part.  ;D


United’s chief executive Arnold has given Ferguson a ‘formal role’ at the club.

He will be part of a ‘think-tank’ which also includes ex-CEO David Gill, former captain Bryan Robson and director John Murtough.

This position is said to give Ferguson ‘more influence at Old Trafford than at any time since he stepped down as manager’.

There will be ‘regular meetings’ and they all will ‘advise on a wide range of issues’. This includes the redevelopment of their Carrington training ground.



Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39878 on: August 15, 2022, 06:16:14 pm »
It isn't just Darwin and the Man City bloke. It's the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Awoniyi, Bamford, Watkins, Antonio, Kane etc. They are players of varying quality but all of them are mobile, aggressive, and technically pretty good as well as tall and dangerous in the air. This is a tough league for a centre back to play in. And it's pretty relentless. You can be sure that Martinez has never been asked to play against opponents like this - and certainly not week after week.

I'm sorry to say that he won't be playing against Liverpool - certainly not at centre back.

Harry Maguire will though....

And you missed Mitrovic of that litany of giants.

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Re: Man United thread. Revolution Number... 6?
« Reply #39879 on: August 15, 2022, 06:19:35 pm »
And you missed Mitrovic of that litany of giants.

I've blanked him out. He doesn't exist.
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