Author Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold  (Read 1381347 times)

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10200 on: October 3, 2022, 08:45:07 pm »
Yeah thought so, that makes more sense.  He might've had to come across to help out.

Or he's just gone wandering.

He went wandering, I remember thinking WTF is he doing there.

He isn't that far over that often though, but he does (and always has) taken up positions much higher and more central than an actual RB would.

Offline paddysour

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10201 on: October 3, 2022, 08:46:13 pm »
He went wandering, I remember thinking WTF is he doing there.

He isn't that far over that often though, but he does (and always has) taken up positions much higher and more central than an actual RB would.

With the frequency and lack of Klopp going mental, would you say it's wandering or by design?

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10202 on: October 3, 2022, 08:51:50 pm »
With the frequency and lack of Klopp going mental, would you say it's wandering or by design?

I mean that pic was a one off from what I remember, it certainly wasn't a common occurance.

His normal positioning is clearly by design given he's been doing it for a number of seasons now and is an integral part of his game and how we play. What's changed most, IMO, is those around him not providing the cover.

Offline paddysour

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10203 on: October 3, 2022, 08:57:38 pm »
I mean that pic was a one off from what I remember, it certainly wasn't a common occurance.

His normal positioning is clearly by design given he's been doing it for a number of seasons now and is an integral part of his game and how we play. What's changed most, IMO, is those around him not providing the cover.

I think it's a double whammy. Agreed on the others not covering, especially the RCM who is basically a RW these days. But I feel like we've also gone more aggressive with Trent as well. It's making him and Fabinho look really bad. But I'm not sure there's any player in world football who can cover the spaces we're leaving in those areas.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10204 on: October 3, 2022, 09:03:06 pm »
Exactly, just go back to how we played before and the problem is fixed surely?

I certainly don’t see the logic of taking him out for someone more defensive like Joey if we’re then going to ask him to do something different to what we’re asking Trent to do.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10205 on: October 3, 2022, 10:55:03 pm »
Last season the tactics were to get Trent on the "elbow" so to say like where KdB operates in the attacking 3rd to accentuate the good stuff he does and then everything defensively is still in front of him as he's not asked to get to the byline so much. Now? I honestly have no clue as it seems we're just like "go do whatever you think you need to do" and there really is no rhyme or reason to it other than "attack". Even last season though I don't recall any real instances where the overload on his side comes as is typical and he just stands there watching. There is a clear issue seemingly in game where he just either expects he doesn't have to defend or doesn't want to defend and its honestly infuriating to watch.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10206 on: October 3, 2022, 11:23:09 pm »
I certainly don’t see the logic of taking him out for someone more defensive like Joey if we’re then going to ask him to do something different to what we’re asking Trent to do.

Trent’s been doing this new tactic thing for a while and when Gomez has played he has played like a conventional right back. More of that would be nice.

Also both us and City have been doing this full back in midfield thing for a while. Something is not right in how we are covering him.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10207 on: October 4, 2022, 12:01:10 am »
Trent’s been doing this new tactic thing for a while and when Gomez has played he has played like a conventional right back. More of that would be nice.

Also both us and City have been doing this full back in midfield thing for a while. Something is not right in how we are covering him.

It's not really a new tactic.Trent was taking up the inverted full back position in 19/20 when Phillips was the right sided centre back.

It happens when he isn't comfortable venturing higher and wider up the pitch.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10208 on: October 4, 2022, 12:07:10 am »
Trent’s been doing this new tactic thing for a while and when Gomez has played he has played like a conventional right back. More of that would be nice.

Also both us and City have been doing this full back in midfield thing for a while. Something is not right in how we are covering him.


We have Arsenal and City up next so probably need to fix this one quick
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10209 on: October 4, 2022, 12:12:07 am »

We have Arsenal and City up next so probably need to fix this one quick

Against City and Arsenal we will not be having an overwhelming possession advantage though.

There will be far less need to push the team so high up the pitch. We will be able to drop into a low to mid block and use the ability of our forwards.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10210 on: October 4, 2022, 12:37:12 am »
in the first 45 at different times I saw him at RB, central mid, right wing .... and even one time Salah put him through on goal when he was in the CF position, our furthest player forward. it was bizarre.

With the frequency and lack of Klopp going mental, would you say it's wandering or by design?

I kinda suspect Klopp is telling him to play him that way.  if not, he's OK with Trent's regressing to play like an 8-year-old or deciding he can do whatever he wants at any point in the game.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10211 on: October 4, 2022, 11:19:57 am »
in the first 45 at different times I saw him at RB, central mid, right wing .... and even one time Salah put him through on goal when he was in the CF position, our furthest player forward. it was bizarre.

I kinda suspect Klopp is telling him to play him that way.  if not, he's OK with Trent's regressing to play like an 8-year-old or deciding he can do whatever he wants at any point in the game.

Trent has been doing that for the last two or three seasons. The right hand side is allowed positional rotation.

One provides width, one covers defensively and one looks to find space in the half spaces. As long as we have a player performing each role then it works really well.

From Trent

It always comes from the manager,” he says. “He has set up a system to allow the players to move with fluidity to help the team create moments that win games. He has allowed me to have that freedom to drift inside a little bit more. It helps offensively and defensively.

“If we lose the ball, there is an extra number in the middle of the park to go and win it back. And when I am getting on the ball, I am in more dangerous areas than just standing out wide.
“There has been a lot of focus this season on the two triangles out wide — so, we have the No 8 in midfield, the full-backs and the wingers on each side. It is about making sure, at all times, there should be someone occupying the width, someone high up on the last line and someone in a half-space or in a midfield eight.

“The manager says it is not too important who it is, just as long as we are occupying those three spaces. With that flexibility, you can do what you want — just make sure that there is someone in those positions. That’s why at times you will see me in between a centre-back and full-back making channel runs, because the No 8 has dropped in at right-back and Mo (Mohamed Salah) is out wide. There’s flexibility and also an understanding of movement and patterns.”

How do you trust someone is going to be there to cover you?

“It is all about communication, really. It is about having an understanding with the players you are playing with. But you can only have full confidence in your position. It helps if you know people are there backing you up. We have played with each other for a long enough time as a team to understand where we need to be when certain things are happening.”

He continues: “The main principle we have is, no matter what system the opposition play, we always have two centre-backs around the halfway line and Fabinho should always be screening that. If they (Liverpool’s opponents) play two up front, we will leave it as three vs two. It is like when the ball is on the left-hand side, we all know Mo is getting in the box. It is then between me and the No 8, say that’s Jordan Henderson, on who gets into the box and backs him up. It should always be one or the other.

“Mo has got no responsibility in staying back defending, that’s not where the team needs him. We need him in the box to go and score goals. You see with Hendo against Everton getting into the box, they are the areas we need to occupy. It is about numbers in the box. If the ball is on a certain side, then that winger is not getting in there, so it is up to the midfielder or the opposite full-back to. You see Robbo (left-back Andrew Robertson) and I in there a lot at the back post. But for that to happen, it is about the protection and that comes from the communication between the centre-backs and Fabinho.


« Last Edit: October 4, 2022, 11:30:50 am by Al 666 »
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Offline tubby

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10212 on: October 4, 2022, 11:25:05 am »
Trent has been doing that for the last two or three seasons. The right hand side is allowed positional rotation.

One provides width, one covers defensively and one looks to find space in the half spaces. As long as we have a player performing each role then it works really well.

Seems to me then the problem is Elliott in that 8 position.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10213 on: October 4, 2022, 11:38:57 am »
Seems to me then the problem is Elliott in that 8 position.
Pre his injury Elliot played the role really well at the start of last season. This season he has been poor in the role and left Trent exposed.

At the moment we have Hendo who has the positional discipline to play the role but not the athleticism. Then we have Elliott whose positioning has been really poor and doesn't seem to be fully over his ankle injury.

It was telling against Brighton that Fabinho and Thiago won three tackles each. However Hendo/Elliott won none.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10214 on: October 4, 2022, 11:39:56 am »
My problem with the 'it doesn't matter who it is' thing is actually it does. Salah can finish and is very dangerous in the box, Trent is a good defender (in absolute terms and certainly relative to Salah and our 8) but he's not good on the half turn, Elliot isn't very quick (unlike Salah) but is good in tight spaces. Plus the degree of tactical discipline and awareness you need to maintain control and proper shape when you're rotating between 3 positions is much higher than if you were sticking to one.

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10215 on: October 4, 2022, 12:29:29 pm »
Gary Neville speaking about Trent on the Beeb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63124826

Although generally a gob shite, he’s speaking some sense here
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10216 on: October 4, 2022, 12:31:48 pm »
Gary Neville speaking about Trent on the Beeb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63124826

Although generally a gob shite, he’s speaking some sense here

I dont see it really (that he's speaking sense). Essentially saying he'll be really, really good if he fundamentally changes how he plays.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10217 on: October 4, 2022, 12:39:37 pm »
Gary Neville speaking about Trent on the Beeb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63124826

Although generally a gob shite, he’s speaking some sense here

He went into more detail on the Sky Sports app. Although Neville can be a bit of a dick at times, he was a quality right back who knew how to defend.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10218 on: October 4, 2022, 12:54:01 pm »
He went into more detail on the Sky Sports app. Although Neville can be a bit of a dick at times, he was a quality right back who knew how to defend.
He did know how to defend but that's about it. The role of the modern full-back has changed so much since his day though and they're expected to do more than just defend though. Neville would get a nose bleed just crossing the halfway line.

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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10219 on: October 4, 2022, 12:56:08 pm »
He did know how to defend but that's about it. The role of the modern full-back has changed so much since his day though and they're expected to do more than just defend though. Neville would get a nose bleed just crossing the halfway line.

That’s exactly what he said. Said the role is completely different now to when he was playing. Think that type of out and out defender will, if not already, be a thing of that past soon. Not like Carragher getting to the halfway line years ago and playing the ball back.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12711304/gary-neville-trent-alexander-arnold-must-redress-imbalance-in-his-game-but-its-not-a-time-to-give-up-on-him
« Last Edit: October 4, 2022, 01:14:14 pm by lfcred1976 »

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10220 on: October 4, 2022, 01:21:58 pm »
My problem with the 'it doesn't matter who it is' thing is actually it does. Salah can finish and is very dangerous in the box, Trent is a good defender (in absolute terms and certainly relative to Salah and our 8) but he's not good on the half turn, Elliot isn't very quick (unlike Salah) but is good in tight spaces. Plus the degree of tactical discipline and awareness you need to maintain control and proper shape when you're rotating between 3 positions is much higher than if you were sticking to one.

If everyone sticks to a single role though you have very little movement against a low block. It is as much about moving the opposition around as it is about our positional rotation.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10221 on: October 4, 2022, 01:22:20 pm »
Neville does have first hand knowledge of the full-back role. Worth a watch.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0X77y9gC0z0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0X77y9gC0z0</a>

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10222 on: October 4, 2022, 01:37:03 pm »
He did know how to defend but that's about it. The role of the modern full-back has changed so much since his day though and they're expected to do more than just defend though. Neville would get a nose bleed just crossing the halfway line.



Ferguson didn't really play with two out and out full backs. Evra played as almost a left winger and Neville, Brown or O'Shea three converted centre backs played on the right. The right sided role was predominately to protect Vidic on the counter.

The interesting thing is when United were behind in games. Ferguson would sacrifice the right back and just throw forwards on.

Neville lecturing Trent is about as relevant as Enoch Powell talking about equality.

Funny how the snide attacks on Trent come a day after United getting their arse handed to them by City. As he said he has wanted to talk about Trent for awhile. Funny how he left it until the day after the Manchester Derby.

I look forward to Steve Bruce lecturing Matip on how to dribble through midfield.

Amazing how such such a self appointed brilliant coach as Ratboy failed at Valencia
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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10223 on: October 4, 2022, 01:48:01 pm »
So because he’s a failed coach means he’s can’t give an opinion then?  Best not let John Barnes try and give advice to any of our players as he’s failed at every managers job he’s ever had. Must be absolute shit him, eh?

And like I said earlier. As a defender, Neville was very, very good, so Trent listening to him wouldn’t be a bad thing at all.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10224 on: October 4, 2022, 02:03:41 pm »
Neville is right in what he's saying.

Trent isn't alert enough and is bad when someone is one on one with him. He switches off a lot. This might not be a popular thing to say on this forum but it's true and has been the whole time. He's saying Trent should change the way he's playing at all, just that he needs to sharpen up defensively.

He's also right that he's already great at the stuff that's harder to teach. The stuff Neville mentioned is a fairly easy fix.


EDIT: While not very talented, Neville was a fairly attacking full back and was decent going forward. Some of the comments about him here are a bit bizarre
« Last Edit: October 4, 2022, 02:06:07 pm by Adams83 »

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10225 on: October 4, 2022, 02:08:13 pm »
So because he’s a failed coach means he’s can’t give an opinion then?  Best not let John Barnes try and give advice to any of our players as he’s failed at every managers job he’s ever had. Must be absolute shit him, eh?

And like I said earlier. As a defender, Neville was very, very good, so Trent listening to him wouldn’t be a bad thing at all.

Neville is giving Trent coaching advice so yes Neville's coaching record is relevant.

The same thing with John Barnes if a player has a choice of listening to Klopp or Barnes then despite Digger being the better player then it is Klopp they should be listening to.

I think it is insulting that Neville should be claiming that Trent isn't being coached in the basics by our coaching staff.
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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10226 on: October 4, 2022, 02:11:16 pm »
Neville is giving Trent coaching advice so yes Neville's coaching record is relevant.

The same thing with John Barnes if a player has a choice of listening to Klopp or Barnes then despite Digger being the better player then it is Klopp they should be listening to.

I think it is insulting that Neville should be claiming that Trent isn't being coached in the basics by our coaching staff.

Maybe Neville can highlight the 8 premier league titles he won as a player to say he knows what he’s talking about from a playing perspective. You ever thought about that?

Last couple of lines. He obviously isn’t get coached on how to defend. That’s pretty clear to see. If you think he is then fair enough. But I’ll use my own eyes to see him being poor at defending and not having a clue at what’s going on around him.

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10227 on: October 4, 2022, 02:11:57 pm »
Neville does have first hand knowledge of the full-back role. Worth a watch.

Neville has first hand knowledge of knowing fuck all about managing or coaching players as he so gloriously proved at Valencia, so I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice to him picking out flash points out of a players entire repertoire and then generalising the fuck out of it.

Trent is well out of form, it is nothing to do with him not crouching down to the fucking ground.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10228 on: October 4, 2022, 02:16:06 pm »
Neville does have first hand knowledge of the full-back role. Worth a watch.

That is true.

I look forward to reading what Danny Mills has to say about Trent.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10229 on: October 4, 2022, 02:19:36 pm »
Neville is right in what he's saying.

Trent isn't alert enough and is bad when someone is one on one with him. He switches off a lot. This might not be a popular thing to say on this forum but it's true and has been the whole time. He's saying Trent should change the way he's playing at all, just that he needs to sharpen up defensively.

He's also right that he's already great at the stuff that's harder to teach. The stuff Neville mentioned is a fairly easy fix.


EDIT: While not very talented, Neville was a fairly attacking full back and was decent going forward. Some of the comments about him here are a bit bizarre

The hardest thing to teach are the instinctive things. What Neville fails to mention is that he was always a defender so always had those instincts.

It is a bit like telling a striker to sharpen up and then expecting them to turn into a Robbie Fowler like poacher.

The funny bit is that Neville has failed as a coach to improve players that is why he is on TV. Yet he is now telling Klopp how to coach Trent. A failure telling a coach with an unparalleled career based on improving players being told what to do by a failure.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10230 on: October 4, 2022, 02:24:02 pm »
Maybe Neville can highlight the 8 premier league titles he won as a player to say he knows what he’s talking about from a playing perspective. You ever thought about that?

Last couple of lines. He obviously isn’t get coached on how to defend. That’s pretty clear to see. If you think he is then fair enough. But I’ll use my own eyes to see him being poor at defending and not having a clue at what’s going on around him.




You had better not be talking about Trent there.
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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10231 on: October 4, 2022, 02:25:37 pm »



You had better not be talking about Trent there.

No, Rob Jones!!!  Who else would I be taking about when discussing Trent, in a Trent thread?

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10232 on: October 4, 2022, 02:26:53 pm »
Maybe Neville can highlight the 8 premier league titles he won as a player to say he knows what he’s talking about from a playing perspective. You ever thought about that?

Last couple of lines. He obviously isn’t get coached on how to defend. That’s pretty clear to see. If you think he is then fair enough. But I’ll use my own eyes to see him being poor at defending and not having a clue at what’s going on around him.

As Sachi said “I never realised that to be a jockey you had to be a horse first.”
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Offline stevieG786

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10233 on: October 4, 2022, 02:27:45 pm »

Funny how the snide attacks on Trent come a day after United getting their arse handed to them by City. As he said he has wanted to talk about Trent for awhile. Funny how he left it until the day after the Manchester Derby.


when did you want him to analyze trent exactly? the last time monday night football was on was when we lost to United, since then Trent has been in the headlines for not getting into the England team and he has had poor performances against Napoli and Brighton which many believe was the cause for Southgate not picking him

not everything is a conspiriacy you know

Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10234 on: October 4, 2022, 02:29:43 pm »
when did you want him to analyze trent exactly? the last time monday night football was on was when we lost to United, since then Trent has been in the headlines for not getting into the England team and he has had poor performances against Napoli and Brighton which many believe was the cause for Southgate not picking him

not everything is a conspiriacy you know

Take no notice of Al. By his own reasoning, he’s never been a player or coach so his opinion is completely irrelevant. I mean, why would someone who struggles at defending listen to someone who won 8 premier leagues as a right back. Crazy talk that when you think about it really.

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10235 on: October 4, 2022, 02:31:29 pm »
Fuck me, surely there are much better hills to die on than Gary fucking Neville.

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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10236 on: October 4, 2022, 02:31:29 pm »
No, Rob Jones!!!  Who else would I be taking about when discussing Trent, in a Trent thread?


Hard to know with all your fellow idiots posting about all players in all threads no matter if they play for Liverpool or not.

And I asked because what you posted is just about the biggest load of shite I've read on here,if you actually meant it then you're fucking clueless,like really fucking clueless.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10237 on: October 4, 2022, 02:34:00 pm »
when did you want him to analyze trent exactly? the last time monday night football was on was when we lost to United, since then Trent has been in the headlines for not getting into the England team and he has had poor performances against Napoli and Brighton which many believe was the cause for Southgate not picking him

not everything is a conspiriacy you know

Who mentioned a conspiracy. For me it was Neville deflecting the attention away from his beloved United.

Look at how he used the ESL to blame Liverpool when the Glazers were right in the centre of it. He defended a fucking riot at old Trafford and basically blamed us.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10238 on: October 4, 2022, 02:36:30 pm »
Take no notice of Al. By his own reasoning, he’s never been a player or coach so his opinion is completely irrelevant. I mean, why would someone who struggles at defending listen to someone who won 8 premier leagues as a right back. Crazy talk that when you think about it really.

Fuck me let's listen to Ryan Giggs beliefs on monogamony after all he won 13 Premier League titles.
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Re: Trent Alexander-Arnold
« Reply #10239 on: October 4, 2022, 02:44:07 pm »
The simple truth is that one of the major reasons that top players fail to be good coaches is because they quite often take for granted the instincts that made them top players.

Having instinctive qualities and being able to coach them into other players are two completely different things.
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