Author Topic: Struggling with depression  (Read 618479 times)

Offline telekon

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7760 on: May 30, 2022, 11:09:55 pm »
Much love to anyone who is struggling.

One thing that helps to feel a bit better in general is to exercise. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a long walk is okay. It's basic biology to feel better afterwards, not to mention it is of course physically healthy.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7761 on: June 1, 2022, 07:20:50 pm »
Much love to anyone who is struggling.

One thing that helps to feel a bit better in general is to exercise. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a long walk is okay. It's basic biology to feel better afterwards, not to mention it is of course physically healthy.
it does help but it almost pisses me off that it helps. I don't want something as simple as a 40 minute walk to make me feel a bit better!
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7762 on: June 1, 2022, 09:02:12 pm »
it does help but it almost pisses me off that it helps. I don't want something as simple as a 40 minute walk to make me feel a bit better!
That's an interesting take, actually.

Through being a counsellor and also through having had plenty of mental health issues myself, I found that it's often the case that many people don't actually want to hear about basic things that can help. They want big, complicated answers and approaches to tackle what feels like big, complicated problems.

Sometimes, suggesting small, simple things that may help can be seen as actually belittling the problems faced by the person.

The reality is that a collection of small things that help can actually go a long way to addressing many issues. Exercise is one of them. Same with things like good sleeping habits, binning off caffeine and reducing or quitting alcohol. Eating well is another. Talking is another simple one too.

When I was younger I genuinely believed that only the biggest and most major interventions could help me because my issues were so massive to me. I was actually so wrong on that, as I later worked out.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7763 on: June 1, 2022, 09:06:03 pm »
That's an interesting take, actually.

Through being a counsellor and also through having had plenty of mental health issues myself, I found that it's often the case that many people don't actually want to hear about basic things that can help. They want big, complicated answers and approaches to tackle what feels like big, complicated problems.

Sometimes, suggesting small, simple things that may help can be seen as actually belittling the problems faced by the person.

The reality is that a collection of small things that help can actually go a long way to addressing many issues. Exercise is one of them. Same with things like good sleeping habits, binning off caffeine and reducing or quitting alcohol. Eating well is another. Talking is another simple one too.

When I was younger I genuinely believed that only the biggest and most major interventions could help me because my issues were so massive to me. I was actually so wrong on that, as I later worked out.
exactly my feelings. I don't want small things to help! I want a huge philosophical explanation of why I am where I am and how it could be truly remedied. I don't want binning off the coffees (which hugely helped panic attacks) or gentle, easy exercise to help. I want the solution to feel as critical as I feel the problem is. often it isn't though.
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7764 on: June 2, 2022, 12:00:38 am »
exactly my feelings. I don't want small things to help! I want a huge philosophical explanation of why I am where I am and how it could be truly remedied. I don't want binning off the coffees (which hugely helped panic attacks) or gentle, easy exercise to help. I want the solution to feel as critical as I feel the problem is. often it isn't though.

I can totally relate to that. You are far from alone in feeling that way. I've seen it a lot.

You, and others, might feel different, of course, but I eventually found that my need for the solution to be as monumental as the problems felt, actually became part of the problem itself and hampered my progress.

For what it's worth, I eventually found that big problems usually consist of smaller components. They are usually a culmination of factors. This being so, they can often be addressed by a collection of relatively small changes. A bit like how you solve a jigsaw by the correct placing of individual pieces. In the end, the picture becomes clear, or at least clearer. I'm not suggesting that small changes are easy changes, of course.


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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7765 on: June 2, 2022, 06:47:55 am »
I can totally relate to that. You are far from alone in feeling that way. I've seen it a lot.

You, and others, might feel different, of course, but I eventually found that my need for the solution to be as monumental as the problems felt, actually became part of the problem itself and hampered my progress.

For what it's worth, I eventually found that big problems usually consist of smaller components. They are usually a culmination of factors. This being so, they can often be addressed by a collection of relatively small changes. A bit like how you solve a jigsaw by the correct placing of individual pieces. In the end, the picture becomes clear, or at least clearer. I'm not suggesting that small changes are easy changes, of course.

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Offline damomad

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7766 on: June 2, 2022, 07:51:15 am »


Fair play to you for staying of the booze. I've had similar moments over the last year where I've felt a tonne weight on me while lying in bed, even after try to do everything the "right" way (staying off drink, eating better, staying away from negative people). It might not be for you but when I look back this year, having something to focus on, forcing me to get out the door 3/4 times a week really helped me. For me it was booking a marathon and the training for it. But it could be anything, that commitment, structure and then being able the lay about after knowing I've really done something that day, that I deserve the rest.

You really aren't alone though, I think a lot of us are still suffering from the pandemic hangover and the habits of hopelessness we fell into. Like any hangover, the only real solution is time.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7767 on: June 2, 2022, 10:50:43 am »
Not depression but still consumed by saturday night, struggling to sleep, when i do dream about it and certain images one of a kid next to me in the tear gas keep popping in my head. I am  off this week so I'm reading about the French politician lies which just infuriates, have little energy and no enthusiasm, wrote to phil scraton and the club which helped a little writing it down on paper.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7768 on: June 2, 2022, 05:58:42 pm »
I feel so down at the moment that I don't even have the desire to do anything to combat it, good or bad. I don't really drink much any more, I've had about 3 occasions in 18 months where I've had a proper drink and bar the odd shandy if I go out for a meal I don't caremuch for it. But there was a time when I'd use the ale to try and mask the depression and the darkness. Now I know I'll feel worse the next day (and often for multiple days after) and I don't think it is worth it. I also don't have the motivation to go for a nice walk or run or go the gym. I don't have the energy or time to watch a nice uplifting movie or start a series to take my mind off things. I just want to curl into a ball and hope it all goes away, but then without jest I hardly have the energy for that. I'm just fucking broken at the moment.


Solidarity to you all.
mind yourself and best of luck man. It is exactly how I feel - and I have a similar problem with using the ale to mask it all. And then eventually I hit that "I don't even care how bad it is to hit this level, I'm gonna keep going". Its a spiral and its bleak. Hope you can stay off it, because though you don't feel it is, it is truly a great thing to do for your life and an achievement, even if its been brought about by how bad it makes you feel the next day

I can totally relate to that. You are far from alone in feeling that way. I've seen it a lot.

You, and others, might feel different, of course, but I eventually found that my need for the solution to be as monumental as the problems felt, actually became part of the problem itself and hampered my progress.

For what it's worth, I eventually found that big problems usually consist of smaller components. They are usually a culmination of factors. This being so, they can often be addressed by a collection of relatively small changes. A bit like how you solve a jigsaw by the correct placing of individual pieces. In the end, the picture becomes clear, or at least clearer. I'm not suggesting that small changes are easy changes, of course.



yeah. It just feels like I've been an idiot all my life when I start lifting weights, going for runs and drinking less than 3 coffees a day and it makes me feel 30% better. You want it to be something huge to vindicate how huge the pain has felt
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7769 on: June 3, 2022, 08:28:34 am »
That's an interesting take, actually.

Through being a counsellor and also through having had plenty of mental health issues myself, I found that it's often the case that many people don't actually want to hear about basic things that can help. They want big, complicated answers and approaches to tackle what feels like big, complicated problems.

Sometimes, suggesting small, simple things that may help can be seen as actually belittling the problems faced by the person.

The reality is that a collection of small things that help can actually go a long way to addressing many issues. Exercise is one of them. Same with things like good sleeping habits, binning off caffeine and reducing or quitting alcohol. Eating well is another. Talking is another simple one too.

When I was younger I genuinely believed that only the biggest and most major interventions could help me because my issues were so massive to me. I was actually so wrong on that, as I later worked out.

Its the cumulative effect of all the little simple steps, its taken me 7/8 months from going I need help to me feeling alot better about myself.

Suicidal thoughts are nearly non-existent now, I generally have overall better weeks than bad ones.  I feel I can handle other stuff better than I could before, all due to the small little steps I have taken over the past 7/8 months.  I can see this now, I wanted to rush head first to sort it that was what my heart was telling me but my brain was telling me take it slow.  I can see a place where I can live a life that is content (even happy).

I am just backing up that Son of Spion in that its not a one action solution, even if all the little things are link to one main issue.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7770 on: June 3, 2022, 11:20:02 am »
Its the cumulative effect of all the little simple steps, its taken me 7/8 months from going I need help to me feeling alot better about myself.

Suicidal thoughts are nearly non-existent now, I generally have overall better weeks than bad ones.  I feel I can handle other stuff better than I could before, all due to the small little steps I have taken over the past 7/8 months.  I can see this now, I wanted to rush head first to sort it that was what my heart was telling me but my brain was telling me take it slow.  I can see a place where I can live a life that is content (even happy).

I am just backing up that Son of Spion in that its not a one action solution, even if all the little things are link to one main issue.

I'm glad things have improved for you, Chris. I wish you all the very best, and much progress in the future.

Yes, it's definitely a cumulative effect. Depression usually is too. The result of a number of different factors coming together at once to overwhelm the person. Sometimes it can be a single devastating event, of course, but more often it's a culmination of a number of factors.

To me, recovery comes via a number of small steps/changes. A bit like a football season consists of a number of matches. Or a journey is made up of a number of miles and points along the way to the eventual destination. We don't complete a football season by playing one match, and we don't complete a journey by just putting our coat on and opening the front door.

Talking about things that link together, I once had a client who presented with so many issues they didn't know where to start when it came to addressing them. They reeled off a long list, so I did just that. I made a list of them all. Then we went through them and it quickly became apparent that if, say, there were twenty named issues, five were linked to one issue, seven to another and eight to another one. So, we actually had three issues, not twenty. Address the roots of each, and you find your answers. We did just that over a number of sessions and that person eventually felt they'd addressed everything and could move on.

I'm only relating that because it shows how things link together in a chain. Depression often is a culmination of factors, as is working on it and moving on from it. Big journeys are made up of small steps, but just because they are small doesn't mean they are insignificant.

All the best, Chris.  :)



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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7771 on: June 3, 2022, 08:02:50 pm »
Thanks,

I wrote a list of 10 plus things, probably a lot more than that but wasn't completely open at the start.  Amazing how they linked together and overlapped with a couple of issues.

I was worried after counselling had stopped I would regress and go back into myself, but its not happened.  I have continued with the little steps (although some have been big steps, but I don't like praising myself so its little steps haha).

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7772 on: June 5, 2022, 01:52:02 pm »
Hi all.

My brother is really struggling with depression at the moment. He’s having thoughts of self harm and harming others. He’s lived with this for as long as I can remember but the last few months have been as bad as it’s ever been. He went to the park the other day but came home due to a panic attack… my mother found him laying on the floor in the back garden as he didnt have the key to get in. He’s in his mid 40’s and has had a tough life and the choices he’s made in life have been questionable to put it nicely but right now he’s struggling so much and it’s hard as we cant seem to find the help. Called 111, the crisis team and the emergency services but we cant seem to get thr professional help he needs. Nobody seems to be proactive and deal with the issues, it just seems like they will only do something once he does something really bad. The GP gave him some meds but only a limited amount due to how powerful and addictive the meds are, he’s run out of them and isn’t sleeping. His condition seems the worse at night and first thing in the morning when he’s alone with his thoughts. Got the crisis team to open his file up again after they discharged him and we’re going back to the GP tomorrow. He just sort of sits there all day staring in to space and very quiet, when he speaks he keeps trying to understand what’s wrong with him and asks if he’ll ever get better. I feel bad for him because I’m not much help, I go over and sit with him for a bit and then head on home knowing I’ve not done much to help as I haven’t got a clue what I can do to help.

Best wishes to anyone else going through something similar or that has family or friends with this issue, it’s scary as I dread when my phone goes off thinking oh no what’s happened, praying that he gets the help he needs.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7773 on: June 7, 2022, 05:57:40 pm »
Much love to anyone who is struggling.

One thing that helps to feel a bit better in general is to exercise. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a long walk is okay. It's basic biology to feel better afterwards, not to mention it is of course physically healthy.

This, felt really low this morning. Some fresh air and something else to focus on, did wonders.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7774 on: June 7, 2022, 09:44:39 pm »
Had two of my worst weeks in ages. I just can't get myself going at all and I'm just redlined experiencing raw emotion. It's not "bad" emotion, but my brain wants to make it bad by using it to fuel angry thoughts and bitter memories. The battle not to is exhausting.

I wanted to feel the emotion because I've clearly got some unresolved issues to release, but it's so overwhelming I've needed two valium inside of a week to put the lid back on. (That's a lot for me.)
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Offline El_Frank

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7775 on: June 8, 2022, 08:14:01 pm »

My brother is really struggling with depression at the moment. He’s having thoughts of self harm and harming others. He’s lived with this for as long as I can remember but the last few months have been as bad as it’s ever been.

Has he got a diagnosis?

Offline El_Frank

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7776 on: June 8, 2022, 08:53:34 pm »
I'm also aware that it's the 4th anniversary of Scott Hutchison's sad death. Scott fronted the Scottish band, Frightened Rabbit, and his songs were always searingly honest but so often also full of dark humour & hope.

Good to hear from someone who also shares a love of Scott's genius. There are MANY songs of his that sum things up perfectly but a couple resonate for me in different ways.
Under his Owl John pseudonym 'Cold Creeps' is very good for describing the relentless attack for those that don't have a 'regular' or common kind of illness. The line "Cold creeps in the invisible hurt, Oh, I know you'll return, I know you'll return" says so much for this, for me. It's different when it's something that is ever-present.

Alternatively 'Head Rolls off' gives us one of his most simple and beautiful and well-known lines that I find really uplifting:
"While I'm alive I'll make tiny changes to earth"

What a mantra to live by. Reminding yourself of this little thing and making it appear in tiny places can really have an impact, be it when you take the time to stop and feed some ducks or just take in your surroundings, be thankful for them, and maybe do a little something to help somewhere in there too.
Serious illnesses are much more complex things to deal with and live with. Many will suggest things that simply don't work at that level, but you can always keep little things like 'tiny changes' as weapons in your armoury to use when those silent attacks come.

Stay strong folks.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7777 on: June 11, 2022, 07:40:39 am »
Finally forced myself out the door to go for a walk this morning. I work overtime most Saturdays so it's not always my fault that I dont go. But have been putting it off for ages and it has been so easy to do so.

Within a hundred yards I was glad I did it. Its literally a matter of getting my arse out the door. Only a half hour or so but I live near some lakes and it's quite pleasant to walk through.

Best wishes to you all and I hope your weekends go well.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7778 on: June 11, 2022, 11:20:41 am »
I've been there, sometimes outside just.. It's the world. And all the problems therein

But nature is nice. I aim for parks, non-people places. Its tough in a city, although in a city, nobody pays much attention (one of the cruel parts of my own depression was feeling ashamed for things that didn't exist)

Glad you got out brother. The body is an engine, and you keep it running and feel benefits.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7779 on: June 24, 2022, 01:10:04 am »
Can start to feel myself falling down that slope again.

Had our gorgeous little girl just over 4 months ago and been finding myself getting more and more frustrated about things, which in turn leads me to get angry about other things, all of which I should be frustrated or angry out, stupid little stuff.

The last time I felt like this I spiralled into a full on depressive episode which ended up with me on medication and therapy sessions.

Also been struggling with work a lot lately, not so much the job itself, but my feeling of self worth in the company as I’ve gone from one of the strongest and most wanted workers on the line (on agency,) to a permanent contracted role in the office yet I’m now one of the lowest paid in the factory due to me being salaried.

I can’t go back onto the line as that would mean going back on shifts which in turn would mean less time seeing the baby and my missus, the only things keeping me going at the minute.

I’m not at a stage were I’m going to harm myself or others, I’ve never gotten to that stage and i’m making sure I never do, I couldn’t cause that heartache to my family.

I just feel like at the minute, i’m a shit Dad because I can barely get the baby to laugh at me and that I can’t do everything I want to do for her.

I feel like a shit partner because I’m just not feeling up to doing much at the minute which leaves a lot on my missus shoulders.

I feel like i’m letting down people in work who I saw as friends because i’m leaving my work on their shoulders and overall, i’m just feeling low.

I’ve done a self referral to TALK Liverpool today, hoping they can help like they did last time (I’ve saw the signs a lot earlier this time around because of the help they gave last time,) and i’ve also been given an app by work that helps with employees mental health.

I just want to feel like me again, I want to feel like i’m attached to my feelings and that I’m not just a husk of the person I know I can be.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7780 on: June 24, 2022, 06:47:43 am »
Feel like shite,  second Father’s Day without my dad.    My kids made not effort at all!

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7781 on: June 24, 2022, 09:15:34 pm »
I think that having a living thing to care for; I have a dog and plants; gives me opportunities to do service. I help another living being stay alive and hopefully healthy. That way I don't feel so useless. Has anyone tried Delta8 to deal with depression. Just found this article https://delta8questions.com/can-delta-8-help-fight-depression/ and wanna give it a try.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 09:40:11 pm by DilanGlass »

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7782 on: June 27, 2022, 02:18:46 pm »
Depression is a complicated topic. I guess nobody can understand what it is until he/she experienced it. I tried various ways of treatment. Meds make my head foggy, and also I feel sleepy all the time (having checked the info about them on the Canada Drugs site, it turned out to be a side effect), so I avoid taking them. What helps me distract from bad thoughts is my new hobby. I started painting and doing puzzles. It works for me. By the way, what about therapy? Did anyone find it helpful?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 11:16:58 am by Lalesa »

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7783 on: June 27, 2022, 09:42:06 pm »
Depression is a complicated topic. I guess nobody can understand what it is until he/she experienced it. I tried various ways of treatment. Meds make my head foggy, and also I feel sleepy all the time (it turned out to be a side effect), so I avoid taking them. What helps me distract from bad thoughts is my new hobby. I started painting and doing puzzles. It works for me. By the way, what about therapy? Did anyone find it helpful?

I’ve been to TALK Liverpool in the past for group therapy sessions, I found that it’s helped me notice the signs that i’m starting to spiral a little earlier and has made it easier for me to open up.

Got a call with them on Tuesday as I need long term councilling this time around to try and get to the root of my issues.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7784 on: June 27, 2022, 10:31:42 pm »
Depression is a complicated topic. I guess nobody can understand what it is until he/she experienced it. I tried various ways of treatment. Meds make my head foggy, and also I feel sleepy all the time (it turned out to be a side effect), so I avoid taking them. What helps me distract from bad thoughts is my new hobby. I started painting and doing puzzles. It works for me. By the way, what about therapy? Did anyone find it helpful?
I agree that people who have never experienced it can find it extremely difficult to understand depression. I have a friend who has never felt depression in her life, and she finds the depressed mindset virtually impossible to understand.

Meds can help, but that's all they are; a help, not a cure. They are best used alongside therapy. Meds have helped me, but there is always a trade-off between the help they give and the potential side effects they can have. If it's all side effects and very little benefit, it's best to not use them. If the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, then meds are a good option.

Personally, I'd suggest therapy/counselling before meds, because meds are often difficult to come off. Of course, meds are often more readily available than counselling is, so many go on meds before getting any psychological help.

Is therapy helpful? That's rather subjective. Personally, I found it very helpful. Again, helpful, not a cure.
I've had different therapeutic approaches and I've studied and then practiced others too. I take useful stuff from both having therapy and, in later life, being a counsellor myself. We can always learn things about ourselves via therapy.

It depends what people want and expect from therapy though. So many expect to be gifted all the answers, but that isn't what counselling/therapy is about.

Anyway, it seems like you've identified things that help you. Even more importantly, it sounds like you employ them too. it sounds simplistic, but doing more of what we value, enjoy and helps us, and less of what isn't helpful is a really good, sensible and pragmatic approach.

Regarding 'bad thoughts'. Yes, they can be distressing but, in reality, they cannot actually harm us. They are just words and pictures in our heads. They are normal and natural too. The best way to manage them is to make room for them. Just let them be, whilst doing things you care about. Fighting them simply drains emotional energy.
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7785 on: June 27, 2022, 10:34:46 pm »
Biggesat misunderstanding is when people think 'depression' = feeling sad
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7786 on: June 28, 2022, 11:28:28 am »

It depends what people want and expect from therapy though. So many expect to be gifted all the answers, but that isn't what counselling/therapy is about.

Regarding 'bad thoughts'. Yes, they can be distressing but, in reality, they cannot actually harm us. They are just words and pictures in our heads. They are normal and natural too. The best way to manage them is to make room for them. Just let them be, whilst doing things you care about. Fighting them simply drains emotional energy.

A couple of quick things about the two highlighted parts here:
I think it's true that people expect to be given answers in therapy (there are lots of types of course). CBT is the most commonly used these days and it has its limitations. Its mantra, as you will know, is all about THOUGHTS - FEELINGS - BEHAVIOUR, and how to try and make yourself aware of when you are contributing to the cycle between these things and how you react to them as well. For most people depression can be easily understood, it is perhaps mostly due to circumstances, situational, if you will. If this is the case it can be unpicked and you can stop thoughts that are contributing to them, but CBT assumes that the majority of people are situationally depressed and not biologically so. That is where CBT fails as it is no longer about thoughts-feelings-behaviour for some people as there is a new source, one that doesn't fit in the cycle.

Secondly, I'm interested to know which form of therapy it was that taught you to make room for bad thoughts and how does that fit within recovery?

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7787 on: June 28, 2022, 01:46:32 pm »
A couple of quick things about the two highlighted parts here:
I think it's true that people expect to be given answers in therapy (there are lots of types of course). CBT is the most commonly used these days and it has its limitations. Its mantra, as you will know, is all about THOUGHTS - FEELINGS - BEHAVIOUR, and how to try and make yourself aware of when you are contributing to the cycle between these things and how you react to them as well. For most people depression can be easily understood, it is perhaps mostly due to circumstances, situational, if you will. If this is the case it can be unpicked and you can stop thoughts that are contributing to them, but CBT assumes that the majority of people are situationally depressed and not biologically so. That is where CBT fails as it is no longer about thoughts-feelings-behaviour for some people as there is a new source, one that doesn't fit in the cycle.

Secondly, I'm interested to know which form of therapy it was that taught you to make room for bad thoughts and how does that fit within recovery?

Yes, it's amazing how many people going into counselling/therapy expecting to be provided with the answers and advice. Personally, when I've started with a new client I always ask them on our first meeting what their expectations are? Any misconceptions can be cleared up right there, before we get going.

I've had CBT myself, and I used to be quite interested in it, but I grew tired of the approach eventually. Two reasons really. One being how it was pushed as the gold standard therapeutic approach, when the reality is it's just one approach of many, and no approach has ever been proven to be more effective than any other. CBT was pushed because it was seen as quick and cheap to deliver. That appeals to funders and government.

When I started out we offered open-ended Person-Centred Counselling. Clients worked at their own pace and were not restricted to a set number of sessions. These days, you are lucky if you get six sessions of CBT on a conveyor belt of in the door, out the door. Thing is, it can take a number of sessions for a person to even open up. What if you open up on session five and only have session six to address the emotional tangle that's just been exposed? So many people also need to discuss their feelings, but CBT is more interested in just thoughts.

Also, for me, CBT feels confrontational and sees you fighting against thoughts and feelings. I later learned the futility of that emotionally draining and endless fight, so dropped CBT altogether. I'll come onto what changed my mind when I answer your second question.

I agree on depression. Unfortunately, I've experienced both situational depression and also depression that descends on you for no apparent external reason like a suffocating black fog. The first type is often a quite natural reaction to trauma and difficult life situations. For instance, after a bereavement, losing your job. The ending of a loving relationship etc... These things can be processed and worked through.

The other kind is more difficult. It's difficult to understand what you're dealing with. I'd go to bed one night feeling ok, but awake the next day in the depths of despair. Nothing had happened overnight, yet my inner world had been turned upside down. Add that to a lifelong anxiety disorder and it leaves you in a hell of a mess. Personally, I needed the intervention of meds to bring me a better sense of emotional stability. Only then did I feel I had something of a base to build on with therapy and my own efforts. The meds helped address the nature aspect of my issues and helped free me up a bit so I could address the nurture/environmental aspects. Until I went on meds, it was like trying to build on shifting sands. It felt impossible.

In answer to your second question, it was Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) that was my lightbulb moment with therapeutic approaches. It's a behavioural approach, but differs from CBT in that rather than confronting thoughts, it makes room for them. So, it takes the draining emotional fight out of it.

The years I'd wasted trying to rationalise, confront, question, dispute and overturn my thoughts got me virtually nowhere. The insane need to replace every negative thought with a positive one suddenly seemed utterly ridiculous and futile.

I'll be honest, crushingly negative thoughts used to blight my life. Even more so because I felt I needed to eradicate them before I could feel better in myself. Thing is though, negative thoughts are normal. The mind is always alert for danger, so it often produces thoughts we perceive as negative and, as such, are uncomfortable.

Problem is, pain in life is normal. Being open to it means we process it more fully and more quickly than if we wrestle with it and try to push it away. Sometimes, we just have to make room for our pain and anxiety rather than enter into combat with it.

This helped me with the bereavement process when I lost my dad and father-in-law within a two week period. I never tried to fight or bury the searing pain. I laid myself open to it and made room for it. I knew it was horrible, yet perfectly normal. I also knew it was a process that does work through if you allow it to. I learned this through ACT, and it helped me process what was a dreadful trauma fully, and in a shorter time period than if I'd fought it.

Of course, you address things you can address. You work on what can be worked on. ACT isn't about being passive. In a nutshell, I'd say it was about identifying your values and living your life according to them whilst making room for the difficult and uncomfortable feelings that might arise whilst doing so. Because you are then doing what you value doing in life, any discomfort becomes worth it.

If we wait until we feel great before we do things, chances are we'll never do them. So, we have to make room for the chatter in our heads and do it anyway. Thoughts aren't gospel truth. They are just words and pictures in our heads. They need not dictate what we do with our lives. The thing with thoughts is, the more you don't want to think something, the more you think about it. The more you don't want something, the more you have it. Being anxious about becoming anxious just guarantees you will get anxious.

For a trivial example. Try not to think of bananas. As soon as you try not to think about them, there they are in your mind. The harder you try not to think about them, the more they are there. Yet if you just make room for the thought of them, and don't try to erase the thought of them if it turns up, chances are you pretty much forget about them anyway.

It's the same with uncomfortable, unhelpful thoughts. If you are willing to have them, they turn up far less. Even if they do turn up, you just accept them, make room for them, but get on with other things. You've then called their bluff.

How does all this fit with recovery?
Well I think that's very subjective. I can only speak for myself. I have suffered with depression and Social Anxiety Disorder since I was a young boy. I've never known life any different, and it crippled me. I left school with nothing. I don't know how I can even read or write. I've struggled with suicidal ideation since I was a teenager and genuinely never thought I'd reach my twenties, nevermind reach my now 59th year. I self harmed for many years and had alcohol issues because I couldn't socialise without being rat arsed first. Education, employment prospects etc, all ruined.

Now? Well whilst I'll always have my demons (which I make room for 😊 ) I can actually function. I got myself through all the training it took to get a diploma in counselling and psychotherapy. That was despite it taking me 12 years to pluck up the courage to walk through the college gates after I first decided I wanted to do the training.

I didn't know about ACT back then. I studied that later on. I was made aware of it by a lovely poster on a mental health forum some years ago. I'll be eternally grateful to her for putting me onto it. Sadly, she committed suicide, but I often think of her. You couldn't even get training in ACT in most of England back then, so I taught myself through books. All I can say is the approach helped change my world, but it's horses for courses. It's about looking at the different approaches and seeing what resonates with us individually.

Sorry, that's a long post to wade through, despite the fact it only scratches the surface really. I hope it answers your questions adequately though.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 02:00:55 pm by Son of Spion »
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Offline El_Frank

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7788 on: June 28, 2022, 02:55:04 pm »
No that's fine, thanks for your full answer.

One thing you said in there was about CBT being pushed because it is quick and cheap and appeals with regards to funding. I agree with this 100%. It presents a huge problem for those that it doesn't work for. I had around twelve sessions of it and was only that far in as I was trying to give it a shot, I knew after the third one that it wasn't going to be right for me. In the end I stopped it and was seen as not giving it a chance (not being a willing recipient of the oh-so-valuable help the NHS was affording me  ::) ). People like me are then seen as more of a 'difficult' patient, 'unwilling to help yourself', when really we're just people that can't be helped in that way. Nothing else was offered as an alternative, only medication.

I'm familiar with other forms of therapy, I've spent half my life on mental health forums so I'm well versed now in what works for some illnesses and what works better for other ones, what meds work for some and which ones don't for others, self-management  etc. It's a complicated picture but the big mistake of the NHS is to assume everyone needs the same two options of meds (usually antidepressants) and/or CBT. It still annoys me that it doesn't all start with thorough assessment and then you go down the path that is best suited for you. I'm sure in the long run this would work out cheaper and improve outcomes. Ten minutes with a GP should not be the starting point for everyone, but alas, money.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7789 on: June 28, 2022, 03:43:46 pm »
No that's fine, thanks for your full answer.

One thing you said in there was about CBT being pushed because it is quick and cheap and appeals with regards to funding. I agree with this 100%. It presents a huge problem for those that it doesn't work for. I had around twelve sessions of it and was only that far in as I was trying to give it a shot, I knew after the third one that it wasn't going to be right for me. In the end I stopped it and was seen as not giving it a chance (not being a willing recipient of the oh-so-valuable help the NHS was affording me  ::) ). People like me are then seen as more of a 'difficult' patient, 'unwilling to help yourself', when really we're just people that can't be helped in that way. Nothing else was offered as an alternative, only medication.

I'm familiar with other forms of therapy, I've spent half my life on mental health forums so I'm well versed now in what works for some illnesses and what works better for other ones, what meds work for some and which ones don't for others, self-management  etc. It's a complicated picture but the big mistake of the NHS is to assume everyone needs the same two options of meds (usually antidepressants) and/or CBT. It still annoys me that it doesn't all start with thorough assessment and then you go down the path that is best suited for you. I'm sure in the long run this would work out cheaper and improve outcomes. Ten minutes with a GP should not be the starting point for everyone, but alas, money.
Sadly, like everywhere else in life these days, it all comes down to money.

It's infuriating really, and lots of therapists became both annoyed and disillusioned with being forced away from approaches they preferred and into delivering CBT instead. When I delivered Person-Centred Counselling at an organisation in Liverpool I had a number of clients who had previously had CBT and hated it. It didn't suit them and they didn't respond to it. They got much more out of the PCC.

Just on a personal note, I think taking what's on offer and seeing what you can take out of it is a good, pragmatic approach. I don't need therapy anymore. I've learned to be my own therapist, but in the past I've always seen courses of therapy through to the end and seen what bits I could use. Although ACT has been far and away the most helpful approach for me, I've always been a bit of a Magpie, taking anything I find useful from wherever I find it then employing it. There is always something of use in there somewhere. We don't have to buy entire theories and approaches. Just use bits and bobs that are helpful to us personally, regardless of origin.

Like you, I spent years on mental health forums. I was a prolific poster for a long time. They played a part in me helping myself too.

Anyway, I agree with you. Different people respond to different things. I loathe the way most are funnelled into CBT and have to make do. Quick and cheap doesn't necessarily mean best. Basically, due to funding crisis and government not genuinely giving a shit about mental health issues, it's become a conveyor belt where they want you in and out of therapy in a ridiculously short time. It's not just clients who despair at the situation. Lots of therapists are deeply disillusioned too. Plenty have binned it off altogether.

It's ironic that we live in a money-mad world that often drives people to despair. Many of those in despair seek therapy as a result. Then, due to money, they are channelled towards a therapy basically chosen as the 'go to' model, not because it has been proven most effective, but simply because of money concerns.

Oh, and lots end up on meds because they need immediate help, but waiting lists for therapy are massive.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 03:45:31 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7790 on: July 8, 2022, 04:31:00 pm »
Depression and anxiety is bad.     Tried to ring the doctors and couldn’t get through.    Sick of feeling like this

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7791 on: July 8, 2022, 04:42:32 pm »
Depression and anxiety is bad.     Tried to ring the doctors and couldn’t get through.    Sick of feeling like this

May be of some help

https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/mental-health/find-an-urgent-mental-health-helpline
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7792 on: July 8, 2022, 10:30:06 pm »
Depression and anxiety is bad.     Tried to ring the doctors and couldn’t get through.    Sick of feeling like this

I don't know if you already have any links or not but you can try various mental health websites for resources and techniques you can do yourself. "Self help". In fact, I think one of the good resources that I've come across in the past was a website called getselfhelp, I'll check...

Yep, getselfhelp.co.uk

It has a tonne of things on there so you can apply techniques that you'd get taught from therapy/counselling, you just have to lead yourself through them instead of a professional leading you through them. These kinds of things are good for when you need that kind of help but can't get it yet. If it's medicinal help you need and cannot get through to your GP's then by all means try other routes to get help, especially if you find yourself in a crisis situation where you feel you're about ready to snap. You can phone 111, or 999 if it feels like an emergency situation, or you can turn up at A&E and request help there, which could get you some short-term medication help at least. But there are loads of things available to help from phone lines, online forums, text services, webchat services, loads of stuff so do try and make use of at least some of it, there is a lot of help out there.

If you need someone to speak to you can also feel free to message me and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7793 on: July 8, 2022, 11:32:58 pm »
I would recommend some of you guys ask your GP about any psilocybin trials for depression, or check out londontrials.com where you can get paid to partake in a study.

Psilocybin is well worth your time researching.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7794 on: July 10, 2022, 06:57:07 am »
I suspect a lot of us spent unforgettable days of our youth researching psilocybin...;)

But good to know it's being put to therapeutic use now
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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7795 on: July 11, 2022, 01:24:31 pm »
My gf has been suffering since 2020 and has been off work since (she is a nurse) but I'm finding it really hard to try and motivate her to at least pick up one shift a week to ease her back into the swing of things. I'm finding it hard to carry both of us now as the cost of bills etc have all risen since 2020. Don't know what to do anymore and I've been with her nearly 12 years and I've suffered with depression in the past and was out of work for around 3-4 months at the most but it has been hard to try and talk her back into work. I'm not sure how long she or even we can go on to be honest.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7796 on: July 11, 2022, 03:29:37 pm »
That's shit. Is she on meds? If so, which ones? Also, does she do much else, like go out with friends, or yourself? Does she partake in any form of exercise etc?

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7797 on: July 11, 2022, 03:37:34 pm »
That's shit. Is she on meds? If so, which ones? Also, does she do much else, like go out with friends, or yourself? Does she partake in any form of exercise etc?

I think she was on sertraline at first but not sure if she has stopped now. She does sometimes but does say no to a lot of social events aswell and even though we built our own gym in the back garden she very rarely uses it and has put on weight due to it. Not sure if we will last to be honest she has changed since 2020 and I probably have aswell.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7798 on: July 11, 2022, 03:51:21 pm »
It can certainly change a person at the time but it doesn't necessarily mean this is her changed for good. Social events when depressed are a no-go for many, and the pressures sometimes put on us to go to them can only add problems like expectations, letting people down, worry or anxiety, feeling broken, a failure, or different or unable to just be normal and happy.
I'd try and encourage her to go for walks with you (yes, you'll have to be involved if you do indeed want to save things). It ticks a lot of boxes for this kind of thing, especially if your walks are to/around places where she'll not have much social interaction beyond saying passing hello's to people - low pressure. The exercise will contribute to a healthier body and mind, you'll get a little bit of time together that's different to the norm and hopefully in time she'll start seeing some light again that reignites some lust for life.
I'd try and find out about the meds and try and be a bit more involved so she doesn't feel it's all on her to fix things, sometimes we need a bit of help, don't we.

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Re: Struggling with depression
« Reply #7799 on: July 11, 2022, 03:58:58 pm »
My gf has been suffering since 2020 and has been off work since (she is a nurse) but I'm finding it really hard to try and motivate her to at least pick up one shift a week to ease her back into the swing of things. I'm finding it hard to carry both of us now as the cost of bills etc have all risen since 2020. Don't know what to do anymore and I've been with her nearly 12 years and I've suffered with depression in the past and was out of work for around 3-4 months at the most but it has been hard to try and talk her back into work. I'm not sure how long she or even we can go on to be honest.

Sorry to hear about this. Though it's not a quick fix for a clearly pressing issue, have you spoken to her about trying something voluntary for a short period? Re-connecting with something of a bit of a routine, but outside of the 'spotlight' & the responsibility of returning to the workplace, might be a useful way of dipping a toe. If it were in a charitable/caring environment, it might even spark the old nursing flame back into action. I'm coming at this from no sort of experience at all, but it was what sprang to mind upon reading your post.

I'd also suggest not overlooking your own position in this too, given that you've referenced "finding it hard" and later having suffered with depression yourself in the past - it'd be easy for that to be taking a toll, so keep checking in on yourself too.