Topic: Trouble across the UK after Southport stabbings

[reddebs]

^^^

I think what was very telling about her is that she'd posted because she was angry, not because 3 little girls had been stabbed to death but because the community had come out in force to help repair the damage from the rioters and to protect the mosque.

She's proud of coming from a lovely quiet rural village in Cheshire so presumably she's never experienced having a marauding gang of abusive aggressors putting the fear of god into them whilst damaging their church or similar.

She wanted and demanded that total strangers should have had their place of worship torched whilst innocent people were inside just because she was angry at the community showing compassion. 

I doubt very much that doing some community work at a local mosque would cause her to show remorse or have second thoughts in future. 

[afc tukrish]

^^^

I think what was very telling about her is that she'd posted because she was angry, not because 3 little girls had been stabbed to death but because the community had come out in force to help repair the damage from the rioters and to protect the mosque.

She's proud of coming from a lovely quiet rural village in Cheshire so presumably she's never experienced having a marauding gang of abusive aggressors putting the fear of god into them whilst damaging their church or similar.

She wanted and demanded that total strangers should have had their place of worship torched whilst innocent people were inside just because she was angry at the community showing compassion. 

I doubt very much that doing some community work at a local mosque would cause her to show remorse or have second thoughts in future. 

This was my thought as well, think Qston is coming from a good place and looking at the sentencing from a position other than a vengeful one is a good thing, but there really has to be some form of deterrent in the sentencing.

Otherwise cynical racists will simply do a passable act of courtroom contrition to avoid jail time and continue making inflammatory statements, or worse...

[DangerScouse]

It blows the idea that these 'protests' were by decent, concerned, law-abiding citizens right out of the water.

Now I'm sure there were good people in their number who behaved like civilised human beings, but the 'protests' were organized by politically motivated racists and the bigots who were agitating for violence and chaos. If we look at those arrested, how many have been decent people who have 'had enough'? Well, I'm not seeing any. They've pretty much all been thieves, burglars, spouse beaters, petty criminals, street hooligans and suchlike.

The narrative that it was just ordinary, decent Britons who have had enough has been shown up for the lie it is. Basically, the whole sorry mess was the hijacking of a tragedy by political agitators who manipulated and mobilised the stupid and the criminally minded to undermine the stability of our country.

What we saw was mindless criminality, under the guise of 'taking our country back'. Presumably one looted mobile phone, one vape and one Greggs pasty at a time.

i read Qston's comment thinking she had posted something pretty innocuous and then read her comment. Zero sympathy for her.

[reddebs]

This was my thought as well, think Qston is coming from a good place and looking at the sentencing from a position other than a vengeful one is a good thing, but there really has to be some form of deterrent in the sentencing.

Otherwise cynical racists will simply do a passable act of courtroom contrition to avoid jail time and continue making inflammatory statements, or worse...

The sentencing should never be vengeful, it should always be according to the law. 

Unfortunately there has been far too many in recent times who think they can do or say what they want with no repercussions to the damage it's caused.

I doubt any of those who turned out with the mob over that weekend expected to be arrested or charged never mind sent down for it so hopefully it'll give others second thoughts if trouble brews again in the near future.

[Red Beret]

This was my thought as well, think Qston is coming from a good place and looking at the sentencing from a position other than a vengeful one is a good thing, but there really has to be some form of deterrent in the sentencing.

Otherwise cynical racists will simply do a passable act of courtroom contrition to avoid jail time and continue making inflammatory statements, or worse...

The message is simple: think it, chat about it with like minded mates down the pub or at your coffee morning; hell even in your WhatsApp if you enjoy your echo chamber. But don't post it online, publicly, for all to see - especially when tensions are running high.

Freedom of speech is not freedom to hate.

[Barneylfc∗]

i read this comment thinking she had posted something pretty innocuous and then read her comment. Zero sympathy for her.

Exactly the same.

I doubt this is an isolated incident or the first time she has spouted such bile. It'll just be the first time she's been held to account for it.

She's now got plenty of time to reflect and consider whether she wants to be such a hateful c*nt in future.

[redbyrdz]

Hmm. I don`t really disagree with what you're all saying as such, but a custodial sentence isn`t always the answer. What she wrote is utterly horrendous, and clearly she is a racist - otherwise why even type that - but I am just not sure a custodial sentence is appropriate. She could perhaps give back to her local community or perhaps be ordered to do community service at a local mosque ?

I am just thinking back to the Imam at the mosque in Liverpool who chatted with protestors with a cup of tea and has got a long way with them in doing that. Surely education and discussion is the answer ?

I agree. I think a lot of the sentencing is used as a deterrent to others. Those caught are being used to make an example of. It doesn't sit right with me either.

I also find it difficult that a one-off over the top comment lands someone in prison, while years and years of lies and "just asking questions" aimed at inciting hatred has no consequence at all.

[Qston]

As I said, I don't disagree with much of what everyone is posting, but I am not sure imprisonment is going to change her views.

I do agree that a strong deterrent is needed and certainly all this sentencing is sending out a very strong message

To be honest, I am not sure what the answer is. I know the media have a lot to answer for in stoking this for years, almost conditioning people. What I have heard and seen over these past weeks is depressing and terrifying. I genuinely didn't realise quite how extensive racism is in this country and how even relatively intelligent and decent people buy into some of it.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

‘Woman, 52, is remanded in custody after appearing in court accused of buying eggs and water for rioters to throw at police’

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly9njdl489o

[Son of Spion]

Thing is, I'm not sure any of these people are really contrite. They're just shit scared for their own well being. Contrition comes from a shift in your perception. It's not enough to accept you were wrong - you have to understand the why. It's about learning.

Actions have consequences, and that includes hate-posts, which can and do inspire others. Do any of these people truly regret their actions, or are they only sorry because they got punished for something they thought they could get away with?

What kind of person advocates hurting, maiming or killing innocent human beings? This isn't like hoping Putin falls out a window or Trump trips on the stairs. This is a bunch of troglodytes who should know fucking better. They can't even claim it's down to poor education - they know enough right from wrong that setting fire to a building with people inside is pretty fucking wrong.

EDIT: it also fires a warning shot across the bows of pr!cks like Frottage who are actively engaging in online hate-speech. Setting the precedent with a sentence for a one off post is a stark warning to those who engage in serial bullshit for personal gain.

Maybe the odd one might have had a lightbulb moment, but I highly doubt the overwhelming majority of them have any genuine remorse. Many are serial offenders who blight our communities year round.

It's the usual story. Commit a crime. Pretend you are remorseful due to the overwhelming evidence against you, and hope it shaves some time off your sentence. 

[afc tukrish]

I also find it difficult that a one-off over the top comment lands someone in prison, while years and years of lies and "just asking questions" aimed at inciting hatred has no consequence at all.

An entirely fair and infuriating point...

[Craig S]

‘Woman, 52, is remanded in custody after appearing in court accused of buying eggs and water for rioters to throw at police’

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly9njdl489o

Bit of a misleading headline, just snuck in at the bottom:

Freeman was "seen to throw bottles towards police" and "smash bricks up" in footage of the 31 July disorder

[Hazell]

Bit of a misleading headline, just snuck in at the bottom:

Freeman was "seen to throw bottles towards police" and "smash bricks up" in footage of the 31 July disorder

That's somebody else.

[Qston]

I agree. I think a lot of the sentencing is used as a deterrent to others. Those caught are being used to make an example of. It doesn't sit right with me either.

I also find it difficult that a one-off over the top comment lands someone in prison, while years and years of lies and "just asking questions" aimed at inciting hatred has no consequence at all.

Couldn`t agree more.

I started questioning myself on feeling a touch uncomfortable with the sentencing in that particular case, and other cases where there is non violent offending.

It is attitudes we need to change and I am not convinced that custodial sentences will make any difference whatsoever, other than for deterrent effect, and you are absolutely right to say that a lot of these people are simply parroting what they have been told or has been serially implied.

The people who have genuinely stirred all this shit up are walking free and without consequence - at the moment.

[Elzar]

As I said, I don't disagree with much of what everyone is posting, but I am not sure imprisonment is going to change her views.

I do agree that a strong deterrent is needed and certainly all this sentencing is sending out a very strong message

To be honest, I am not sure what the answer is. I know the media have a lot to answer for in stoking this for years, almost conditioning people. What I have heard and seen over these past weeks is depressing and terrifying. I genuinely didn't realise quite how extensive racism is in this country and how even relatively intelligent and decent people buy into some of it.

I completely get your point of view on this. She probably spouts some absolute shite to people around her, and has gone and done it online with massive consequences. However she seemingly has no past police records so clearly stays out of trouble generally, and she is apparently the primary carer for her husband. Feels like 15 month sentences (although probably be less she actual serves) is almost not going to help anything at all here. She isn't going to come out of there with a changed view, just a view she doesn't put online.

For people posting online with no previous, massive fines will put a stop to that and then added community work might help them alter their views.

Obviously hers is a bit of a different case, and maybe there is bits missing, plenty of these nobheads posting online probably have plenty to go off. Also understand they want to make an example. If we were start throwing in jail everyone who posts those sorts of comments anywhere online, it would be top and tail in every available bed.

[Red Beret]

It is indeed infuriating that the likes of Frottage can plead the "just asking questions" defence to try and skirt around the very obvious intent of shit stirring. Pissed me off even more when he basically says, "the riots are wrong but I understand why they're doing it, and the information I had was wrong but it could have been right" - as if that makes a fucking difference.

But he's on notice now. They all are. They're not dealing with soft, compliant Tories looking to cater to the racist vote anymore. If he does it again he'll be pulled in on charges of intent to incite violence because the precedent has been set - he can't plead ignorance next time.

[Son of Spion]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gallery/faces-eight-more-men-police-29743615

Eight more clowns need identifying.

[Kalito]

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/judge-savagely-puts-plymouth-rioter-9479578

 

Blood marvelous, that. 

Useless fucking ingrate.

[Yorkykopite]

Like some other posters I have had the odd misgiving about one or two of the trials. But I realise now I knew very little about the overall picture. Not any more. This is a superb article on the sentencing and the action of the courts generally over the rioting. It answers a lot of questions I think.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2024/08/14/two-tier-justice-cutting-through-the-online-myths/

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Like some other posters I have had the odd misgiving about one or two of the trials. But I realise now I knew very little about the overall picture. Not any more. This is a superb article on the sentencing and the action of the courts generally over the rioting. It answers a lot of questions I think.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2024/08/14/two-tier-justice-cutting-through-the-online-myths/

Hard to see how Frottage, Musk, Hopkins and a few others haven't already been arrested.

[Qston]

Like some other posters I have had the odd misgiving about one or two of the trials. But I realise now I knew very little about the overall picture. Not any more. This is a superb article on the sentencing and the action of the courts generally over the rioting. It answers a lot of questions I think.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2024/08/14/two-tier-justice-cutting-through-the-online-myths/

That's helpful. Thanks Yorky

[KurtVerbose]

Couldn`t agree more.

I started questioning myself on feeling a touch uncomfortable with the sentencing in that particular case, and other cases where there is non violent offending.

It is attitudes we need to change and I am not convinced that custodial sentences will make any difference whatsoever, other than for deterrent effect, and you are absolutely right to say that a lot of these people are simply parroting what they have been told or has been serially implied.

The people who have genuinely stirred all this shit up are walking free and without consequence - at the moment.

I'm with you that we dole out far too many custodial sentences. I think in other circumstances this woman would've been treated differently, it's just the context. Judge Steven Everett, the honorary recorder of Chester, said “in circumstances such as these even people like you need to go to prison”.

[Qston]

What I have noticed about these people getting convicted at that almost all of them look about 10 years older than they actually are !!

[Terry de Niro]

What I have noticed about these people getting convicted at that almost all of them look about 10 years older than they actually are !!

That's what anger does to you.

[Peabee]

That's what anger does to you.

Also, B&H, stella, pizza, cocaine and crisps as your 5 a day.

[Terry de Niro]

Also, B&H, stella, pizza, cocaine and crisps as your 5 a day.

All that and hatred.

[jillc]

Also, B&H, stella, pizza, cocaine and crisps as your 5 a day.

Look in your messages! 

[Red_Mist]

Has anyone seen that clip on the bbc of a fella called Roger Haywood getting arrested?

Haywood: “I’m not going in there” (the Police van)

He then gets bundled in.

Copper: “There you go, look at that, you are going in”



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ydp4wg9pjo

“Haywood was later seen visibly "too intoxicated" to work out how to use a loudhailer to speak to the crowds, the judge added.”

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I see that the famously light fingered Declan Patrick MacManus got almost 5yrs 

We're going to start seeing the serious sentences, up to 10yrs for rioting.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Also, B&H, stella, pizza, cocaine and crisps as your 5 a day.

All that and hatred.

Haha this convos just reminded me of the scene from the jerk. Not that you are him but you keep adding stuff

‘I don’t need any of this stuff, and I don’t need you,. I don’t need anything, …..cept this. That’s the only thing I need is this ‘

[jackh]

I see that the famously light fingered Declan Patrick MacManus got almost 5yrs 

We're going to start seeing the serious sentences, up to 10yrs for rioting.

What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?

The cover of that on Legion (tv series) is brilliant.

[Riquende]

What I have noticed about these people getting convicted at that almost all of them look about 10 years older than they actually are !!

“If a person has ugly thoughts, it begins to show on the face. And when that person has ugly thoughts every day, every week, every year, the face gets uglier and uglier until you can hardly bear to look at it.

A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts it will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.”

 ~ Roald Dahl, The Twits

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

'There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews. I mean there is always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason' - Roald Dahl

[ToneLa]

That Hitler, what a rotter
9/11, such a debacle

[redbyrdz]

'kinell Capon, put it in " ", I started reading that and thought, WTF!, never expected that from you, until I got to the end, lol.

[reddebs]

'kinell Capon, put it in " ", I started reading that and thought, WTF!, never expected that from you, until I got to the end, lol.

😂😂😂 Same

[Red Beret]

Maybe modern "pop" culture was in my head, but even though I saw the words "Roald Dahl", I read it as "JK Rowling". 

[ToneLa]

Maybe modern "pop" culture was in my head, but even though I saw the words "Roald Dahl", I read it as "JK Rowling". 

Disconnect from pop culture I reckon

[Red Beret]

Disconnect from pop culture I reckon

Just to clarify, I was talking about Capon's spoof post.

The worrying thing is, I'm not even all that connected to modern pop culture. I just know that JK is a POS these days, so at some point Hitler praising seems inevitable from her.