Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[upthereds1993]

Think the answer is that the Echo only reports on crime and tragedies these days.

Oh I'm far too aware of that - it's been that way for years. Just noticed during the last few months that there seem to be a lot more of a specific type of tragedy

[AlphaDelta]

The Echo is just a bottomless pit of misery and doom. I deleted the app a long time ago, but occasionally log onto their website whilst in work.

They had an article this week about a lad from Skegness who spent £100 to win a load of tat in an arcade. I couldn't resist a little dig in the comments, low and behold they actually replied saying, 'and you read it'. Reach PLC rag of a set up.

[So… Howard Philips]

Another example of mindless vandalism ‘legitimised’ by Bonfure Night;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjkpmynk4e8o

[Son of Spion]

Another example of mindless vandalism ‘legitimised’ by Bonfure Night;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjkpmynk4e8o

I used to love this time of year when I was younger, but it's horrible these days. Too many seem to believe the Halloween to bonfire night period is free licence to commit all manner of criminal damage to communities.

On a separate note, I see the vermin who murdered Ashley Dale has said the last year has been torture for him. Poor fella. Diddums, you scumbag. 

[Black Bull Nova]

I think the ability to but and use what are essentially weapons is now past it's sell by date. Friendly family bonfires, baked potatoes in the fire and the odd firework is a thing of the past now. Millions of scared animals, idiots with fire and random destruction and mindlessness is no longer sensible (as is burning catholics which people seem to have forgotten about)
These days we get halloween imported from the USA which can be fun for small kids, OK, but mischief, fireworks, belongs in the past.
Anyway, I'm sick of fireworks, it used to be bonfire night its now people's birthdays and all kinds of shit these days, enough.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I'm in two minds about it. Obviously, you get plenty of dickheads using Bonfire Night as an excuse to do whatever they want. I get why people don't like it.

On the other hand, there are so few traditional celebrations left in the UK anymore, and that really is sad. We live in an completely individualistic society, with everything sanitised or commercialised to the point of utter meaninglessness (the US-style-version-of-Halloween being one of them). Most other countries have multiple traditional or unique celebrations throughout the year. In England, what do we have? US-style-commercialised-Christmas, US-style-commercialised-Halloween, US-style commercialised-Easter. And what else? Pancake Tuesday?!

Living in Spain now, I see how much these sorts of celebrations help build some sense of community and common ground and a general link to the past. And actually one of those, San Juan, is controversial for the same reasons. San Juan takes place around Summer Solstace, involves the detonation of prolific amounts of fireworks and French bangers, and is celebrated like New Year with the tradition to stay awake until sunrise. You see kids as young as 5 (I'm not taking the piss here) lining up at pop-up fireworks stalls to buy them. The explosions do my head in, and plenty of other peoples too. But people here also value these sorts of traditions.

If Bonfire Night goes, we have literally no unique celebrations left in England. In my mind, rather than cancelling Bonfire Night, we should be looking for even more things to publicly celebrate. And for fucks sake have some more public holidays. 7 a year is an utter joke. Maybe people would like Bonfire Night more if you got a day off work for it?

[Son of Spion]

It's not the celebrations that are the problem. The issue is the hijacking of them. Bonfire night needn't go, but the selling of fireworks to the public needs to be abolished. Sadly, it's all just become one big anti-social free-for-all. Organized displays? Fine.

I'm fine with Halloween generally. Yes, it's been americanised but the little kids love it. It's mostly toddlers and young kids dressing up and going out with parents. The real problem is the night before. Criminal Damage Night. When the dregs of society live down to their reputation and brick buses with elderly passengers on and generally act like feral scum. That needs wiping out completely.

Christmas has been dead for a long time now anyway. A soulless commercial festival of greed and misery. Horribly hijacked and turned on its head. The complete opposite of what it really should be about. Those who still want it can have it. I just swerve the entire period because it's by far the most depressing time of the year. Shame really, because I used to love it. I'm not religious, but I could buy into the spirit of what it used to mean. Jesus seemed like a good socialist too.

This country just can't seem to do anything with responsibility and dignity anymore. Everything is hijacked and taken to extremes. Celebrations are a welcome aspect of life and socializing, but maybe we need to learn how to do them a bit better.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Most other countries have multiple traditional or unique celebrations throughout the year. In England, what do we have? US-style-commercialised-Christmas, US-style-commercialised-Halloween, US-style commercialised-Easter. And what else? Pancake Tuesday?!

Ottery tar barrels

Gloucestershire cheese rolling

The Padstow ‘Obby ‘Oss

etc

https://www.iheartbritain.com/23-strange-quirky-british-festivals/

[So… Howard Philips]

Ottery tar barrels

Gloucestershire cheese rolling

The Padstow ‘Obby ‘Oss

etc

https://www.iheartbritain.com/23-strange-quirky-british-festivals/

Mud snorkelling

[Son of Spion]

Mud snorkelling

You're thinking of Glastonbury. 

[So… Howard Philips]

You're thinking of Glastonbury. 

Snorkelling in the residue of the overflowing toilets?

[Indomitable_Carp]

It's not the celebrations that are the problem. The issue is the hijacking of them. Bonfire night needn't go, but the selling of fireworks to the public needs to be abolished. Sadly, it's all just become one big anti-social free-for-all. Organized displays? Fine.

I'm fine with Halloween generally. Yes, it's been americanised but the little kids love it. It's mostly toddlers and young kids dressing up and going out with parents. The real problem is the night before. Criminal Damage Night. When the dregs of society live down to their reputation and brick buses with elderly passengers on and generally act like feral scum. That needs wiping out completely.

Christmas has been dead for a long time now anyway. A soulless commercial festival of greed and misery. Horribly hijacked and turned on its head. The complete opposite of what it really should be about. Those who still want it can have it. I just swerve the entire period because it's by far the most depressing time of the year. Shame really, because I used to love it. I'm not religious, but I could buy into the spirit of what it used to mean. Jesus seemed like a good socialist too.

This country just can't seem to do anything with responsibility and dignity anymore. Everything is hijacked and taken to extremes. Celebrations are a welcome aspect of life and socializing, but maybe we need to learn how to do them a bit better.

That would be packing in a whole aspect of the celebration for a minority of idiots. And the council don't even have the money for organised displays anymore, anyway. And like everything else in thiscountry, as soon as it all falls to official events, it's only a matter of time before it gets commercialised (who wants to buy some tacky, plastic Bonfire Night-themed objects, anyone? Maybe a £7 cup of mulled wine to go with that?)

As for this country unable to do things with dignity and responsibility these days.....the fact is, it never has. Bonfire Night used to be notoious for violence and rioting since it started in the 1600s all the way up to the mid-1800s. What goes on nowadays is comparatively tame (as it should be, because no one is going to condone rioting). Interestingly enough, this country was also among the first to celebrate the Running of the Bulls, since the 1300s (same as Spain).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_running

It was cancelled in the 1800s. Why? Nothing to do with animal suffering, of course. Like everything else in this country, it was cancelled because of persistent drunken violence. And obviously we're on a football forum, so it doesn't need repeating what the mob got up to in the 60s/70s/80s. In this country football has long been a replacement for other traditional communal acitvities.

The closest we have got to adopting a new festival in this country has been Black Friday. How much more depressing can you get?! Agreed about Christmas in many respects. But for me it is still a great time of year for going to the pub, meeting friends, seeing family, and eating (and watching footy). As you say, you can do Christmas without the commercialism.

Ottery tar barrels

Gloucestershire cheese rolling

The Padstow ‘Obby ‘Oss

etc

https://www.iheartbritain.com/23-strange-quirky-british-festivals/

I mean I'm all for those, but they're all local village festivals. I'm talking national or even regional festivals. With (preferably) days off work to accompany them. Why can't England make St. George's Day a public holiday, for example? It's a public holiday here in Catalonia (Sant Jordi - who is also their patron saint). Scotland has St. Andrews, Wales St. Davids, and Ireland St. Patricks.

Long story short, I just think it's a shame the first instinct in the UK is always to start banning things, rather than taking in a wider view. I also think it's a shame we have lost any interest in communal celebration. The only events we are allowed to communally celebrate in (football, music festivals, gigs) invovle paying eye watering sums that are out of reach for many. The basic glue that binds wider soceities together has been sacrificed on the altar of individualism and rampant consumerism.

[Black Bull Nova]

I'm in two minds about it. Obviously, you get plenty of dickheads using Bonfire Night as an excuse to do whatever they want. I get why people don't like it.

On the other hand, there are so few traditional celebrations left in the UK anymore, and that really is sad. We live in an completely individualistic society, with everything sanitised or commercialised to the point of utter meaninglessness (the US-style-version-of-Halloween being one of them). Most other countries have multiple traditional or unique celebrations throughout the year. In England, what do we have? US-style-commercialised-Christmas, US-style-commercialised-Halloween, US-style commercialised-Easter. And what else? Pancake Tuesday?!

Living in Spain now, I see how much these sorts of celebrations help build some sense of community and common ground and a general link to the past. And actually one of those, San Juan, is controversial for the same reasons. San Juan takes place around Summer Solstace, involves the detonation of prolific amounts of fireworks and French bangers, and is celebrated like New Year with the tradition to stay awake until sunrise. You see kids as young as 5 (I'm not taking the piss here) lining up at pop-up fireworks stalls to buy them. The explosions do my head in, and plenty of other peoples too. But people here also value these sorts of traditions.

If Bonfire Night goes, we have literally no unique celebrations left in England. In my mind, rather than cancelling Bonfire Night, we should be looking for even more things to publicly celebrate. And for fucks sake have some more public holidays. 7 a year is an utter joke. Maybe people would like Bonfire Night more if you got a day off work for it?

Don't have to get rid of bonfire night, just have organised one's only, they are better anyway. Keep it to one night a year and stop the explosions after 9pm. Simple.


Anyone who has a young baby who has not slept for 6 months and finds themselves putting up with random explosions at midnight which kick off the dog and then the baby will appreciate this. There's some selfish bastards out there as well as the dickheads, 4th July for god's sake, why do we celebrate that over here.

[Black Bull Nova]

That would be packing in a whole aspect of the celebration for a minority of idiots. And the council don't even have the money for organised displays anymore, anyway. And like everything else in thiscountry, as soon as it all falls to official events, it's only a matter of time before it gets commercialised (who wants to buy some tacky, plastic Bonfire Night-themed objects, anyone? Maybe a £7 cup of mulled wine to go with that?)

As for this country unable to do things with dignity and responsibility these days.....the fact is, it never has. Bonfire Night used to be notoious for violence and rioting since it started in the 1600s all the way up to the mid-1800s. What goes on nowadays is comparatively tame (as it should be, because no one is going to condone rioting). Interestingly enough, this country was also among the first to celebrate the Running of the Bulls, since the 1300s (same as Spain).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_running

It was cancelled in the 1800s. Why? Nothing to do with animal suffering, of course. Like everything else in this country, it was cancelled because of persistent drunken violence. And obviously we're on a football forum, so it doesn't need repeating what the mob got up to in the 60s/70s/80s. In this country football has long been a replacement for other traditional communal acitvities.

The closest we have got to adopting a new festival in this country has been Black Friday. How much more depressing can you get?! Agreed about Christmas in many respects. But for me it is still a great time of year for going to the pub, meeting friends, seeing family, and eating (and watching footy). As you say, you can do Christmas without the commercialism.


I mean I'm all for those, but they're all local village festivals. I'm talking national or even regional festivals. With (preferably) days off work to accompany them. Why can't England make St. George's Day a public holiday, for example? It's a public holiday here in Catalonia (Sant Jordi - who is also their patron saint). Scotland has St. Andrews, Wales St. Davids, and Ireland St. Patricks.

Long story short, I just think it's a shame the first instinct in the UK is always to start banning things, rather than taking in a wider view. I also think it's a shame we have lost any interest in communal celebration. The only events we are allowed to communally celebrate in (football, music festivals, gigs) invovle paying eye watering sums that are out of reach for many. The basic glue that binds wider soceities together has been sacrificed on the altar of individualism and rampant consumerism.

It's not banning things, it having things safe and organised (and community based)


I've seen the Ottery Barrels, don't ban it but then don't let 14 years olds do it on their own any night of their choosing without supervision, it's the same thing.

[Black Bull Nova]

And, again, even if we keep bonfire night let's just remember what it actually is.


It is a protestant celebration, involving the ritual burning of a catholic militant who was originally hung, drawn and quartered. I think many Scottish and Irish catholics are probably aware of this, I doubt most people are even aware of it anymore.

[So… Howard Philips]

And, again, even if we keep bonfire night let's just remember what it actually is.


It is a protestant celebration, involving the ritual burning of a catholic militant who was originally hung, drawn and quartered. I think many Scottish and Irish catholics are probably aware of this, I doubt most people are even aware of it anymore.

Actually as a lapsed Catholic I’m deeply hurt that the State sanctions celebrating the martyrdom by hanging, drawing and quartering of the renowned freedom fighters, of the Fawkes Six.

[Black Bull Nova]

Actually as a lapsed Catholic I’m deeply hurt that the State sanctions celebrating the martyrdom by hanging, drawing and quartering of the renowned freedom fighters, of the Fawkes Six.

Can't remember whether it was The catholic liberation front or the people's front for the liberation of catholics. They fought so you could freely lapse.


The best argument for lapsing is that this country is not afflicted to the same degree by of division as those societies still plagued by hatred of people because of their religion. The price we pay is dickheads emerging without fear of burning in eternal damnation.


Religious fanatics with guns and rockets all year


or


Dickheads with guns all year and rockets in November


Take your choice

[bradders1011]

Snorkelling in the residue of the overflowing toilets?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pop%20up%20pirate

[courty61]

The end of the Ashley Dale case is upon us.

Quite depressing reading through it all.

Drugs are a major issue in the city and anyone who sniffs a line or has a joint is feeding these cretins.

As said before, she was obviously innocent, but she full well knew that her fella was a wrong un. Sums him up too that his girlfriend of 4 years is shot and he keeps his mouth shut and goes off to Dubai for weeks and months on end.

[So… Howard Philips]

Mandela memorial in Princes Park vandalised;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67370747

[Only Me]

Mandela memorial in Princes Park vandalised;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67370747

Ignorant racist c*nts would actually be funny if they weren’t so mindlessly destructive.

Twats.

[John C]

Mandela memorial in Princes Park vandalised;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67370747

Just mindless, why are people pricks?

[Red Beret]

Mandela memorial in Princes Park vandalised;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67370747

Shouldn't have been put on the island anyway. Could have gone anywhere in the park.

[gazzalfc]

Thomas Cashman's appeal to have his minimum 42 year sentence for shooting Olivia Pratt-Korbel reduced lasted less than 10 minutes. Failed on all counts. Will stay in prison until he is into his 70's

[Red Beret]

Sentence should have been increased. The appeal should have been treated as a contempt of court.

[Terry de Niro]

Thomas Cashman's appeal to have his minimum 42 year sentence for shooting Olivia Pratt-Korbel reduced lasted less than 10 minutes. Failed on all counts. Will stay in prison until he is into his 70's

Should be swinging from the highest tree.
c*nt.

[Son of Spion]

Good. Horrible little rat.

[courty61]

Unless his barrister had to use that language today as he's been found guilty, but it was the first time any person from his side essentially admitted it was him.

As Cashman was still denying it was him after conviction.

Which has gone against him today.

Basically wanted to be the big man with a gun, thought he was untouchable, got convicted and now has to serve those years.

If he would have admitted it, then likely, not guaranteed though he would have got less years. Enjoy the next 42 dickhead

[Nobby Reserve]

Unless his barrister had to use that language today as he's been found guilty, but it was the first time any person from his side essentially admitted it was him.

As Cashman was still denying it was him after conviction.

Which has gone against him today.

Basically wanted to be the big man with a gun, thought he was untouchable, got convicted and now has to serve those years.

If he would have admitted it, then likely, not guaranteed though he would have got less years. Enjoy the next 42 dickhead

One down, about a thousand similar scumbags to go...

[gazzalfc]

One down, about a thousand similar scumbags to go...

4 more about to join him

Niall Barry, Sean Zeisz, James Witham and Joseph Peers all found guilty of murdering Ashley Dale

[Nobby Reserve]

4 more about to join him

Niall Barry, Sean Zeisz, James Witham and Joseph Peers all found guilty of murdering Ashley Dale

Good news.

Pity the scumbag himself wasn't home, and they killed the innocent girl instead.

[courty61]

Just hope other girls see the light after this case. If you know he's a wrong un, run

[gazzam1963]

Just hope other girls see the light after this case. If you know he's a wrong un, run

Sadly there are many many young women like this in the city . Some of the names mentioned and tried in court will undoubtedly be in the news again in months or years to come

[Son of Spion]

Just hope other girls see the light after this case. If you know he's a wrong un, run

It's tragic that too many normally bright and intelligent young women are attracted to these low life characters. Filth like these scumbags need to be shunned by the communities they leech off.

Anyway, hopefully life sentences are given to these now they've been proven guilty.

[Indomitable_Carp]

The same way young men get dragged into thinking running around and acting like a gangster is cool or glamorous or whatever else, you will also get young women attracted to them for much the same reasons.

In this case it's hard to understand, because the impression given by the trial is that Ashley was an intelligent and sensitive girl, who could see things were getting out of hand. But I guess once you like someone, it's hard to turn away from them.

[reddebs]

The same way young men get dragged into thinking running around and acting like a gangster is cool or glamorous or whatever else, you will also get young women attracted to them for much the same reasons.

In this case it's hard to understand, because the impression given by the trial is that Ashley was an intelligent and sensitive girl, who could see things were getting out of hand. But I guess once you like someone, it's hard to turn away from them.

It's also difficult to disentangle yourself from the life and all their known associates. 

These sorts don't take kindly to rejection and will use threats of violence or actual violence towards anyone and everyone who are close to you due to how much you know about their business.

[Indomitable_Carp]

It's also difficult to disentangle yourself from the life and all their known associates. 

These sorts don't take kindly to rejection and will use threats of violence or actual violence towards anyone and everyone who are close to you due to how much you know about their business.

A good point!

[AlphaDelta]

I hope and expect when these four are sentenced tomorrow, that they don’t see the light of day for a very long time, if at all. The Echo has partially glamourised these vermin with words like ‘operations centre’, ‘ordered a hit’ and ‘foot soliders’, but the grim reality is they are nothing but stains on society. They don’t want to work like the rest of us, they are too lazy to get up each morning and go and earn an honest wage.

To be honest, when I read that the boyfriend drove past her road and it was all taped off by the police, paramedics etc, he didn’t even contact her, just carried on and went home, I found that chilling but not surprising.

[Nobby Reserve]

I hope and expect when these four are sentenced tomorrow, that they don’t see the light of day for a very long time, if at all. The Echo has partially glamourised these vermin with words like ‘operations centre’, ‘ordered a hit’ and ‘foot soliders’, but the grim reality is they are nothing but stains on society. They don’t want to work like the rest of us, they are too lazy to get up each morning and go and earn an honest wage.

To be honest, when I read that the boyfriend drove past her road and it was all taped off by the police, paramedics etc, he didn’t even contact her, just carried on and went home, I found that chilling but not surprising.

Worth acknowledging here the great police work and community assistance in nabbing not just these scumbags, but the scum who killed both Olivia Pratt-Korbel and Elle Edwards.

Three murders of innocent girls/women by jumped-up vermin that happened in close succession around the City Region, and all solved.

[Son of Spion]

I hope and expect when these four are sentenced tomorrow, that they don’t see the light of day for a very long time, if at all. The Echo has partially glamourised these vermin with words like ‘operations centre’, ‘ordered a hit’ and ‘foot soliders’, but the grim reality is they are nothing but stains on society. They don’t want to work like the rest of us, they are too lazy to get up each morning and go and earn an honest wage.

To be honest, when I read that the boyfriend drove past her road and it was all taped off by the police, paramedics etc, he didn’t even contact her, just carried on and went home, I found that chilling but not surprising.

I find the media glamourisation of such scumbags to be part of the ongoing problem. It's a murky, rancid, seedy little cesspool these vermin swim in, and the wording used to describe it should reflect this fact. Those involved are fragile, weak human beings. Often highly emotionally immature and childish. They rely on violence to appear strong, but they are children in men's bodies. The glamourisation of such inadequate wasters does society in general no favours at all.

Go down their route and you eventually end up in prison or dead. In the meantime, they leech off their communities like the parasites they are. Innocent people get hurt. Lives ruined. All so these idiots can feel like they're in an episode of Miami Vice. All so little boys in men's bodies can feel good about themselves. Well, until they get shot themselves or end up inside.

I also agree with Nobby there. Brilliant work once again from the police and the community in bringing the scum connected with this and other local atrocities to trial and eventual conviction. The vermin perpetrating these hideous crimes are urban terrorists who need eradicating. It's good to see police and community coming together in very difficult circumstances to nail these to the wall.