Author Topic: Ian Rush 1988  (Read 3932 times)

Offline norecat

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Ian Rush 1988
« on: May 5, 2020, 12:54:19 pm »
My question is this

Was it a mistake to buy Rush back in 1988 for £2.7m?

Aldridge had proved himself to be a goal scoring machine. Yes Rush was 3 years younger. However should the money have been allocated to buying a proper pair of CBs. Lawrenson had retired and Hansen was 33. Gillespie was injury prone and Ablett was a useful squad player. Glenn Hysen while a classy player was 30 when bought.

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #1 on: May 5, 2020, 01:25:54 pm »
I can’t believe how excited we were to hear the news of Rush re-signing, we were in the car somewhere on holiday when it came on the news. It even featured in the BBC news that evening I think.

Interesting debate but I think it was the right call still. We still bought defenders, just not the right ones. We’re we in for either Bruce or Pallister who signed for United around that time for relative big fees (pretty sure Pallister was either a British record, or a record for a defender)?


Offline halfpoundcheesy

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #2 on: May 5, 2020, 01:42:15 pm »
Interesting debate but I think it was the right call still. We still bought defenders, just not the right ones. We’re we in for either Bruce or Pallister who signed for United around that time for relative big fees (pretty sure Pallister was either a British record, or a record for a defender)?

Yeah, record for a defender. Bit of background in link below, Pallister wanted to come here originally:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gary-pallisters-manchester-united-transfer-18002284

Offline norecat

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #3 on: May 5, 2020, 01:49:03 pm »
Yeah, record for a defender. Bit of background in link below, Pallister wanted to come here originally:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gary-pallisters-manchester-united-transfer-18002284

Pallister proved his worth in the long run but I think McGrath was a far better player than Pallister ever got to be. He was still playing at the top level at 37 for Aston Villa.

Offline norecat

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #4 on: May 5, 2020, 01:50:57 pm »

Interesting debate but I think it was the right call still. We still bought defenders, just not the right ones. We’re we in for either Bruce or Pallister who signed for United around that time for relative big fees (pretty sure Pallister was either a British record, or a record for a defender)?

We only bought 1 central defender between 1987 and 1990 in the form of Glenn Hysen. We were fine at full back with Nicol and Staunton/Burrows.

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #5 on: May 5, 2020, 04:33:15 pm »
In retrospect, yes. Aldo had a white hot chemistry with Digger, Beardsley and Houghton that I don't think Rushie ever matched, and he was a top player for a while (second in the 1990-91 La Liga scoring charts). Trying to replicate your success at the same club is almost impossible too, which I'm sure is a big part of the reason we never signed Keegan and Owen for a second time.

I can see the reasoning though. Dalglish had to have been a massive Rushie fan having played alongside him and in theory he should have been at his peak for a while. Gillespie and Nicol should have been coming into their peak and in theory Venison, Staunton and Ablett would have been the cornerstones of our defence for another decade. In theory.

For me, the real issue was ending up with a manager without that real eye for a player. Dalglish signed some real duds toward the end of that first Liverpool stint but he also picked up the likes of Redknapp, Hutchison and Harkness for peanuts. Who knows what might have happened if we'd got the likes of Hendry, Le Saux, Flowers, Batty and Ripley in, instead of Ruddock, Dicks, James, Stewart and Walters? Hell, Souness turned down Schmeichel and Cantona within months of each other.

Offline norecat

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #6 on: May 5, 2020, 05:56:52 pm »

For me, the real issue was ending up with a manager without that real eye for a player. Dalglish signed some real duds toward the end of that first Liverpool stint but he also picked up the likes of Redknapp, Hutchison and Harkness for peanuts. Who knows what might have happened if we'd got the likes of Hendry, Le Saux, Flowers, Batty and Ripley in, instead of Ruddock, Dicks, James, Stewart and Walters? Hell, Souness turned down Schmeichel and Cantona within months of each other.

Given what happened at Hillsborough I would give Dalglish a pass for losing his way in terms of signing players. Souness on the other hand took a mallet to a problem that required a chisel. I cry when I think of the players he sold let alone those he signed. Criminal. Set us back years. Mark Wright was the one signing he made that made sense in terms of the first team. We did need a commanding centre back. Bjornebye and R Jones were also solid signings. The rest were puke.
« Last Edit: May 5, 2020, 05:58:39 pm by norecat »

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #7 on: May 5, 2020, 06:13:32 pm »
Beardsley was the worst, followed by Houghton who still had a lot to offer at Villa for another couple of years.

Offline eddiedingle

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #8 on: May 6, 2020, 03:35:25 pm »
We had to. Imagine him ending up at Everton or United?

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #9 on: May 6, 2020, 10:25:15 pm »
Well worth it.

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Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #10 on: May 6, 2020, 10:47:30 pm »
I don't think it was a mistake re-signing Rushie but it was a mistake in selling Aldo and not getting a replacement and also in selling Saunders 2 years later and not getting a replacement.

Whilst there wasn't the rotation in the game back then that there today, in essence we only had Rush and Beardsley in 89/90 and 90/91, though yes we did get in Rosenthal and Speedie we didn't replace the quality of Aldo.

For me what always triggered my thought process was selling Saunders. We bought him for a record fee the year previous and then we just sold him one year after we bought him. Rush was getting older and Fowler hadn't made his debut yet and Saunders was entering his peak years as his 92/93 and 93/94 seasons with Villa showed. Did we need the money? I wouldn't have thought so.

We didn't plan well for the succession of Rush in the team really. Souness said on a Sky MNF that Rush wanted to be paid more than Saunders when he signed, so perhaps that was one of the reasons we sold Saunders.

Selling Beardsley was criminal and I think Souness realised it when he attempted to sign a similar player in Clough but he was nowhere near the talent level of Beardsley, hell even his old man admitted that!

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #11 on: May 7, 2020, 02:09:59 am »
I don't think it was a mistake re-signing Rushie but it was a mistake in selling Aldo and not getting a replacement and also in selling Saunders 2 years later and not getting a replacement.

Whilst there wasn't the rotation in the game back then that there today, in essence we only had Rush and Beardsley in 89/90 and 90/91, though yes we did get in Rosenthal and Speedie we didn't replace the quality of Aldo.

For me what always triggered my thought process was selling Saunders. We bought him for a record fee the year previous and then we just sold him one year after we bought him. Rush was getting older and Fowler hadn't made his debut yet and Saunders was entering his peak years as his 92/93 and 93/94 seasons with Villa showed. Did we need the money? I wouldn't have thought so.

We didn't plan well for the succession of Rush in the team really. Souness said on a Sky MNF that Rush wanted to be paid more than Saunders when he signed, so perhaps that was one of the reasons we sold Saunders.

Selling Beardsley was criminal and I think Souness realised it when he attempted to sign a similar player in Clough but he was nowhere near the talent level of Beardsley, hell even his old man admitted that!
Can only agree with the last paragraph, but I don't think Saunders was a good fit in terms of personality or playing style. Looking back at the goals he scored for Derby and Villa, a lot of them were breakaway goals and we were much more of a possession-based style. Sheringham would have been a far better purchase, either in the summer of 1991 or the year after. As for the rest, Speedie and Rosenthal (initially) had decent scoring records in 1990 and '91, but we sold Speedie and didn't replace him, and Rosenthal's goals fell right off after we signed him properly. Just a mess, all in all.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #12 on: May 9, 2020, 04:57:46 am »
Given what happened at Hillsborough I would give Dalglish a pass for losing his way in terms of signing players. Souness on the other hand took a mallet to a problem that required a chisel. I cry when I think of the players he sold let alone those he signed. Criminal. Set us back years. Mark Wright was the one signing he made that made sense in terms of the first team. We did need a commanding centre back. Bjornebye and R Jones were also solid signings. The rest were puke.

What good CBs were around at the time? I remember being impressed by Mabbutt, but was he any good after Hansen retired (which was when we needed one)?
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Offline norecat

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #13 on: May 9, 2020, 12:15:53 pm »
What good CBs were around at the time? I remember being impressed by Mabbutt, but was he any good after Hansen retired (which was when we needed one)?

Des Walker, Mark Wright (we bought but maybe 3/4 years too late), Richard Gough, Earl Barrett, Keith Curle, Martin Known, etc

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #14 on: May 9, 2020, 12:54:24 pm »
Saunders was a decent striker but Souness inexplicably played him on the left wing, Houghton was our player of the season in a poor 91/92 campaign then sold to Villa, selling Beardsley was criminal.

 I'm surprised we didn't reign Aldo[or any other top flight club for that matter] when Saunders was sold, Aldo ended up at Tranmere, Aldo still had plenty more to give, Souness signed a load of duds
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Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #15 on: May 9, 2020, 01:04:31 pm »
Hansen retired in 91 so Wright was his replacement. Although indeed Wright was probably 2/3 years past his best in terms of physicality but mentally and reading of the game he still had that in his game when we bought him and for the first couple of seasons he was a real asset.

Gough went from Spurs to Rangers so I doubt we'd have been able to buy him at that time plus he was like Wright so I don't think he would have made us so much better. Keown was at Everton in 90/91 was they wouldn't have sold him to us and I doubt he'd have left them except for going back to Arsenal. Barrett was a full back more so than a CB. I didn't think Curle was that great and Mabbutt was past his best then too.

Des Walker would have been the one but I doubt Forest would have sold to us at that time and even if they would have he went to Serie A so doubt he'd have wanted to come. Perhaps when he left Sampdoria in 93 we could have signed him, but we had Wright and Ruddock then.

Imagine our team though for those first couple of seasons in the premier league had we not sold those players we did.

James or Brucie in goal. Rob Jones at right back and Staunton at left back. Wright and Ruddock at centre back. A midfield of Houghton, Redknapp, Barnes, McManaman and then up front Beardsley and Rush.

With squad members like Bjornebye, Harkness, Gillespie, Ablett, Venison, Nicol, Walters, Molby, Whelan, Thomas, Fowler.

Personally I don't think that team could win the league but it sure as hell could challenge for it and is as good or better as the Villa, Norwich and Blackburn teams that did in those first two years.

For me though the biggest regret of the 90's was not getting Bobby Robson in as manager when there was an opportunity to do so in 97 after he left Barca. I love Roy Evans as man and a coach and for what he represents and he deserved the chance to get the job as manager and he did steady us in  94/95 and we have two title challenges there after. But after that second title challenge where we collapsed mentally I'd have loved us to get in Bobby as manager to get us over that line.

I'm not saying there was ever an opportunity of ever a rumour of that happening but when a manager of his clout and repute is available in 1997 I thought it was an opportunity wasted not to sound him out. Sorry for going off a tangent here  ;D

Offline Sangria

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #16 on: May 9, 2020, 04:25:19 pm »
Live commentary: Liverpool v Everton, 1986 FA Cup final.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2020/may/09/everton-v-liverpool-1986-fa-cup-final-live

The first game I remember watching.
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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #17 on: May 9, 2020, 05:21:06 pm »
Hansen retired in 91 so Wright was his replacement. Although indeed Wright was probably 2/3 years past his best in terms of physicality but mentally and reading of the game he still had that in his game when we bought him and for the first couple of seasons he was a real asset.

Gough went from Spurs to Rangers so I doubt we'd have been able to buy him at that time plus he was like Wright so I don't think he would have made us so much better. Keown was at Everton in 90/91 was they wouldn't have sold him to us and I doubt he'd have left them except for going back to Arsenal. Barrett was a full back more so than a CB. I didn't think Curle was that great and Mabbutt was past his best then too.

Des Walker would have been the one but I doubt Forest would have sold to us at that time and even if they would have he went to Serie A so doubt he'd have wanted to come. Perhaps when he left Sampdoria in 93 we could have signed him, but we had Wright and Ruddock then.

Imagine our team though for those first couple of seasons in the premier league had we not sold those players we did.

James or Brucie in goal. Rob Jones at right back and Staunton at left back. Wright and Ruddock at centre back. A midfield of Houghton, Redknapp, Barnes, McManaman and then up front Beardsley and Rush.

With squad members like Bjornebye, Harkness, Gillespie, Ablett, Venison, Nicol, Walters, Molby, Whelan, Thomas, Fowler.

Personally I don't think that team could win the league but it sure as hell could challenge for it and is as good or better as the Villa, Norwich and Blackburn teams that did in those first two years.

For me though the biggest regret of the 90's was not getting Bobby Robson in as manager when there was an opportunity to do so in 97 after he left Barca. I love Roy Evans as man and a coach and for what he represents and he deserved the chance to get the job as manager and he did steady us in  94/95 and we have two title challenges there after. But after that second title challenge where we collapsed mentally I'd have loved us to get in Bobby as manager to get us over that line.

I'm not saying there was ever an opportunity of ever a rumour of that happening but when a manager of his clout and repute is available in 1997 I thought it was an opportunity wasted not to sound him out. Sorry for going off a tangent here  ;D

Funny you should mention Bobby Robson, as i was watched the Bobby Robson documentary the other night on Netflix, Barca treated him appallingly, & never told him he was going to be replaced by Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal until the end of that season when Barca knew a few months before, even had Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal attending that copa del rey match against Atletico, were Barca were 3-0 down at ht, & won 5-4.
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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2020, 12:31:25 pm »

For me though the biggest regret of the 90's was not getting Bobby Robson in as manager when there was an opportunity to do so in 97 after he left Barca. I love Roy Evans as man and a coach and for what he represents and he deserved the chance to get the job as manager and he did steady us in  94/95 and we have two title challenges there after. But after that second title challenge where we collapsed mentally I'd have loved us to get in Bobby as manager to get us over that line.

I'm not saying there was ever an opportunity of ever a rumour of that happening but when a manager of his clout and repute is available in 1997 I thought it was an opportunity wasted not to sound him out. Sorry for going off a tangent here  ;D

For me, it was not getting Kenny back after Sounness quit in 1994. That was a big mistake and I'm sure I've read Kenny saying that he was waiting for the phone call to come but it never did.

Offline norecat

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2020, 08:27:27 pm »
For me, it was not getting Kenny back after Sounness quit in 1994. That was a big mistake and I'm sure I've read Kenny saying that he was waiting for the phone call to come but it never did.

I think I remember reading that in the summer of 91 Kenny would have come back but by then Souness had been appointed. Carnage then followed.

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2020, 12:22:08 pm »
Just found this on LFC Reddit.




"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #21 on: November 1, 2020, 12:25:03 am »
^ ha ha great stuff, Maradona 10 and Rush 9. Holy cow that would have been something. 

Offline idontknow

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #22 on: November 1, 2020, 01:48:37 am »
^ ha ha great stuff, Maradona 10 and Rush 9. Holy cow that would have been something.
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Offline rushyman

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Re: Ian Rush 1988
« Reply #23 on: December 7, 2020, 12:17:18 am »
I’ll pretend I never saw this

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