Topic: Adam Lallana

[penga]

He might not be getting so goals/assists now which is a bit of a problem but you look at 2 of the goals we scored against Arsenal for example, he did the pass before the assist or hockey assist as it is apparently called which won't show up on the stats. So he still contributing.

[Fiasco]

He might not be getting so goals/assists now which is a bit of a problem but you look at 2 of the goals we scored against Arsenal for example, he did the pass before the assist or hockey assist as it is apparently called which won't show up on the stats. So he still contributing.

Fair point. Yet when Origi got two assists against Burnley last week people said it didn't matter that he laid on a simple 10 yard ball for Can to smash it in, it wasn't a proper assist.

Not you, my friend. I'm just saying in general. It's all about perception, and people get a harder time of it than others for obvious reasons.

[Doc Red]

Just saw Suarez knock a simple rebound wide of the goal when it was easier to score - it happens to the best. Klopp really has taken him to the next level, our player of the season along with Mane and will get into the team of the season.

It does happen to the best. However, bar 2-3 games, Lallana has been a shadow of his early season self since the new year. It could be his miss was down to simply being unlucky, but it could also be a knock on result of him being out of form and lacking confidence in front of goal. 6 months ago, that goal goes in and he heads to the shower as the game winner and MOTM.

[Chalky Boots]

He might not be getting so goals/assists now which is a bit of a problem but you look at 2 of the goals we scored against Arsenal for example, he did the pass before the assist or hockey assist as it is apparently called which won't show up on the stats. So he still contributing.

Exactly. Probably due him getting injured just so the minority can see how abject the midfield looked without him like earlier this season.

The idea that Lallana gets it cushy doesn't wash considering his previous seasons were basically him - rightly sometimes- getting a barrage of stick for not doing enough. He's a central midfielder, ideally he'd get back to scoring a few more but ultimately it was about time the other midfielders started chipping in with some goals and not leaving it all to him.

I also don't see the Coutinho comparison, not only isn't Phil scoring or assisting his general play has -bar a very brief moments- been sub-par since his return. Apart from a couple of fixtures since January (Hull, Leceister he was bad like everyone and Burnley he couldn't influence the attack) Lallana has overall been excellent in his link up play, his defending as well as moving the whole team up the pitch just by being technically superior to most players.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Fair point. Yet when Origi got two assists against Burnley last week people said it didn't matter that he laid on a simple 10 yard ball for Can to smash it in, it wasn't a proper assist.

Not you, my friend. I'm just saying in general. It's all about perception, and people get a harder time of it than others for obvious reasons.

The obvious reason being Lallana has played much better and worked much harder than Origi, for example, who came on yesterday with fresh legs and still barely put himself about? Yeah, football fans cutting very good players slack for mistakes, what are like hey.

You've honestly just posted that, work rate "aside" (as if it can ever be an aside - it's a fundamental of football, especially the way we press through midfield), you haven't seen much difference between Coutinho and Lallana across these last two months and expect to be taken seriously?

[El Lobo]

What player can take the game by the scruff of the neck and change it on his own in midfield? Other than Gerrard, we've had no players like that in midfield in the last 20 years, and there aren't many players like that. If he was like that, he'd be a world class player, but he isn't, he's a good player who is a key part to the way this team functions.

Exactly mate.

People keep pushing this when that sort of player simply doesn't exist anymore.

[PhilV]

His miss yesterday was hilarious, seemed so simple but for me it was one thing, tiredness.


I might be wrong but look at the misses from Aguero and Fernandinho as well, the game was such high intensity that both teams has easy misses and that is probabl cause everyone was blowing out their hoop!

No blame on him from me, he worked his bloody socks off and he has come on so much (that pass from Bobby btw to him, wow, cushioned or what!)

[LallanaInPyjamas]

His miss yesterday was hilarious, seemed so simple but for me it was one thing, tiredness.


I might be wrong but look at the misses from Aguero and Fernandinho as well, the game was such high intensity that both teams has easy misses and that is probabl cause everyone was blowing out their hoop!

No blame on him from me, he worked his bloody socks off and he has come on so much (that pass from Bobby btw to him, wow, cushioned or what!)

Yep. I don't think either are natural finishers in fairness but Lallana almost ran a half marathon yesterday. While playing football. Tired legs, tired mind and all that. You can often see it in him and Firmino - the two hardest working, most fundamental pressers we have and therefore probably the first names on the team-sheet - that they're tired when getting chances. They're always stretching, not entirely relaxed. And yet they still keep going. It was no surprise to see those two in the box (for Fimirno's wasteful shot, a few minutes after Lallana's miss) with Lallana once again running the length of the pitch to get into a goal-scoring position. It was a shame Firmino chose the wrong option denying Lallana the chance to redeem himself but equally you couldn't entirely blame him for going for glory.

We need an ice cool finisher to allow them to run slightly less at times I think. If we can put away our chances earlier/more frequently it will allow us to stay more compact and press in slightly deeper areas rather than seemingly always chasing the game.

[Xabi Gerrard]

He covered 13.51km yesterday. Almost 1.5km more than the next furthest running player. Massive asset to the team having someone putting in that kind of shift. We may not be able to afford players as good as some of our rivals, but by god will we outwork them.

No wonder he couldn't control his feet when he missed at the end, I'm surprised he could even stand up!

[bobadicious]

He covered 13.51km yesterday. Almost 1.5km more than the next furthest running player. Massive asset to the team having someone putting in that kind of shift. We may not be able to afford players as good as some of our rivals, but by god will we outwork them.

No wonder he couldn't control his feet when he missed at the end, I'm surprised he could even stand up!

Thats incredible considering alot of that 13km is probably sprinting.

[Jayworden99]

He covered 13.51km yesterday. Almost 1.5km more than the next furthest running player. Massive asset to the team having someone putting in that kind of shift. We may not be able to afford players as good as some of our rivals, but by god will we outwork them.

No wonder he couldn't control his feet when he missed at the end, I'm surprised he could even stand up!

Incredible stat that. Even after that chance he managed to run the whole length of the pitch on a counter attack aswell, key player in my opinion. One of first names on team sheet

[-HH-]

Thats incredible considering alot of that 13km is probably sprinting.

11 sprints, more than anyone else on the pitch.

[harryc]

Wish he only ran 12km and put that chance away!

[Funky_Gibbons]

11 sprints, more than anyone else on the pitch.

11 more sprints than anyone else.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Wish he only ran 12km and put that chance away!

If he only ran 12km he won't have been able to contribute to breaking down as many City attacks so they probably would have score more too.

[Fiasco]

You've honestly just posted that, work rate "aside" (as if it can ever be an aside - it's a fundamental of football, especially the way we press through midfield), you haven't seen much difference between Coutinho and Lallana across these last two months and expect to be taken seriously?

It's not wrong. I said I'm not understating the importance of it. But Phil and and Lallana are different players, yet one gets a free ride for a lack of output offensively due to work rate when it's not through the want of trying, Lallana is simply more capable of doing it. Phil doesn't shy away from his pressing duties but Lallana is one of a handful of players we have who can maintain it for the whole game.

In terms of output there has been no difference. I don't know what your point about it is. Pressing under Klopp is a key component of how he views the game, of course. No debate there. But our best pressing player done little to get us out of our slump during a difficult period and barring a purple patch from before Christmas hasn't contributed going forward. It's not a tirade, or an outrageous argument to make. Lallana could do more when we need him to. He's capable of it, which is why it frustrates me. I don't want him shot. Jesus Christ.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts with our team. The goals have been shared by and large; Mane has the most I think but we don't have a 20-25 goal a season striker. Firmino, Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Can from deeper, Milner from the spot, Origi had a spell early on this season. When the likes of Mane couldn't do it (AFCON) and Phil and Firmino dropped off I just felt maybe Lallana, being such a leader and on the back of a new contract extension, might have done more going forward. Is that such a crazy thing to suggest? Or even now, when Phil and Bobby aren't near there best?

But no, expecting an established England international to grab the bull by the horns and get us a couple of winning goals or something during a bad spell is crazy because players like that don't exist anymore. Sound.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It's not wrong. I said I'm not understating the importance of it. But Phil and and Lallana are different players, yet one gets a free ride for a lack of output offensively due to work rate when it's not through the want of trying, Lallana is simply more capable of doing it. Phil doesn't shy away from his pressing duties but Lallana is one of a handful of players we have who can maintain it for the whole game.

In terms of output there has been no difference. I don't know what your point about it is. Pressing under Klopp is a key component of how he views the game, of course. No debate there. But our best pressing player done little to get us out of our slump during a difficult period and barring a purple patch from before Christmas hasn't contributed going forward. It's not a tirade, or an outrageous argument to make. Lallana could do more when we need him to. He's capable of it, which is why it frustrates me. I don't want him shot. Jesus Christ.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts with our team. The goals have been shared by and large; Mane has the most I think but we don't have a 20-25 goal a season striker. Firmino, Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Can from deeper, Milner from the spot, Origi had a spell early on this season. When the likes of Mane couldn't do it (AFCON) and Phil and Firmino dropped off I just felt maybe Lallana, being such a leader and on the back of a new contract extension, might have done more going forward. Is that such a crazy thing to suggest? Or even now, when Phil and Bobby aren't near there best?

But no, expecting an established England international to grab the bull by the horns and get us a couple of winning goals or something during a bad spell is crazy because players like that don't exist anymore. Sound.

Where does Adam play and where does Bobby,Mane and Phil play? Are they not playing in different positions?

[Fiasco]

Where does Adam play and where does Bobby,Mane and Phil play? Are they not playing in different positions?

Of course they are. It's a fair point, yet it doesn't become one when people harp on about Lallana's 7 goals and assists from a time when everything was going swimmingly. If he could do it then, why not recently? Wijnaldum plays in a similar position to Lallana and he's contributed lately. Can, from even deeper, has contributed lately. Out of the three of them you would expect Lallana to be the most capable of getting goals when the players you mentioned perhaps aren't. Is that honestly so crazy to suggest?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

So how many goals does Adam need to score in your opinion to certify the notion that he is having a good season at the club? How many midfielders have contributed more in the attacking third  this season in the league? Players in his position?

Your original point was that his season performances are not all that. I disputed that. You mentioned that hes not grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck. Hes contributed to 14 goals in the league from midfield. Who has done similar or better in the same positon in the league?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Of course they are. It's a fair point, yet it doesn't become one when people harp on about Lallana's 7 goals and assists from a time when everything was going swimmingly. If he could do it then, why not recently? Wijnaldum plays in a similar position to Lallana and he's contributed lately. Can, from even deeper, has contributed lately. Out of the three of them you would expect Lallana to be the most capable of getting goals when the players you mentioned perhaps aren't. Is that honestly so crazy to suggest?

So only recent form counts?  Doesn't the massive contributions Lallana made against Spurs or Arsenal count to you?

Also. where was Wijnaldum earlier in the season when Lallana was the only player contributing from midfield?

[Chris~]

Of course they are. It's a fair point, yet it doesn't become one when people harp on about Lallana's 7 goals and assists from a time when everything was going swimmingly. If he could do it then, why not recently? Wijnaldum plays in a similar position to Lallana and he's contributed lately. Can, from even deeper, has contributed lately. Out of the three of them you would expect Lallana to be the most capable of getting goals when the players you mentioned perhaps aren't. Is that honestly so crazy to suggest?

Because finishing is weird and hard to predict. You can't just decide when you want to score or how those goals will be spread out. Lallana doesn't just miss that chance because Firmino missed one. I'd say it is crazy to just expect any player to score because others aren't, it doesn't work like that.

[stockdam]

He covered 13.51km yesterday. Almost 1.5km more than the next furthest running player. Massive asset to the team having someone putting in that kind of shift. We may not be able to afford players as good as some of our rivals, but by god will we outwork them.

No wonder he couldn't control his feet when he missed at the end, I'm surprised he could even stand up!

He is fast becoming my favourite player. The stat above shows how hard he works both in tracking back and also sprinting to support the attack. His control at close quarters is exceptional. Apart from his miss yesterday he had a great game.

[Fiasco]

I can't multiple quote so bare with me:


de Facto - It's not a matter of me thinking that only recent form counts, I don't dispute or take away the contributions Lallana has made this season. His form has fallen off a cliff post-Christmas, in terms of numbers at least. At times earlier on in the season he put in some wonderful, wonderful performances. The caveat to that is that everybody else was playing well, the pressure was off somewhat. A player could score 10 goals in a season but do it over 5 games. The rest of the season he could put in terrible performances, but hey, he scored 10 goals so he had a great season on the whole? Lallana isn't near that kind of scenario, but you see what I'm saying. I wish his contributions going forward would be more spread out. That would help the team when we needed it most. Not just putting up good numbers when everybody else is putting up good numbers. In answer to your question about how many goals he needs to score? He's probably going to end up with around 10 and 10 for goals and assists. Those ARE great numbers, fantastic even. Yet it frustrates me that the bulk of them would have came during a time when everything was rosy, and NONE came when we needed them most. Is that not fair to say?

Funky - I'm not sure it's fair to compare a new signing coming into a team with an established, key player in the first few months of a season. Maybe you do, but I'm not sure it's totally fair. Wijnadum knows his role now, he's comfortable, he knows the system, and he's now contributing. It wouldn't have been fair to compare Lallana with say a Gerrard or a Coutinho during his first few months here.

Chris - How is it crazy to want or hope that certain players step up when others aren't producing? Isn't it a team game? I'm not picking out Lallana specifically, but he would be the go to guy, especially for a player considered such a leader and on the back of a new contract.


But anyway, I'm getting nowhere here. Football is apparently such a different game nowadays. Lallana is a key player for us and for the manager. I don't want him sold, I admire his tenacity, his effort, his technique. I don't have anything against him. I just feel he's had a bit of an easy ride. Wanting him to contribute a little more during a time when the team needed someone to stand up is seemingly such a fucked up and crazy idea. I get it.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Yeah I forget Lallana was given a free ride on here during his first season. By the way, it's Lallana's first season in midfield so he's had to learn a new role too.

As is said, he made massive contributions against Sours and Arsenal and could have been MOTM in either of those games so not sure how you can say he hasn't contributed.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Fiasco, I agree with you that Lallana could improve some aspects of his game in the same way that I think literally every player on earth could improve - yes, even Messi, Neymar, Flanagan and Ronaldo. I'd love it if he started scoring in every game for example.

The problem is, our entire team could improve immensely in so many ways and Lallana's faults are probably the least of them all. All our front 3 and back up strikers need to be MUCH more prolific, even Mane.

We could do with more goals from Wijnaldum, Hendo and Can and dont even get me started on the problems with the defence and keepers.

Whether you meant it or not, your posts read a bit like you're saying we could have avoided our slump if he was more prolific, but my opinion (and I think the people you're arguing with too) is that there are a million and one things that need to be addressed before we start saying it was down to Lallana.

[Chris~]

Chris - How is it crazy to want or hope that certain players step up when others aren't producing? Isn't it a team game? I'm not picking out Lallana specifically, but he would be the go to guy, especially for a player considered such a leader and on the back of a new contract.

Because that's not how it works? I'm sure Suarez would love to have traded in a bunch of goals for one against Chelsea at home, or in the away game to City in 13/14. It doesn't work like that though.

He's still playing at a similar level to what he was, putting in game best distance covered and sprint stats, he just hasn't got the goals at the moment, that shouldn't be a huge thing that we judge him on though because he's never been prolific and really finishing is weird, it's patchy, it doesn't always follow expectations. Expecting him to start scoring more, to basically push above what he's done in the PL before just because others are out/aren't scoring, and especially because he got a new contract isn't fair. He can't decide to just be a better finisher, or to just score more goals, no player can that quickly, it would take a lot of technique training and understanding of where to shoot from and basically just taking a lot more shots.

[jillcwhomever]

Yeah I forget Lallana was given a free ride on here during his first season. By the way, it's Lallana's first season in midfield so he's had to learn a new role too.

As is said, he made massive contributions against Sours and Arsenal and could have been MOTM in either of those games so not sure how you can say he hasn't contributed.

Players should be given time to settle in to new clubs though. I'm sure  I could make a list of players who while being okay in the first season, then go and improve drastically in the second season. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to adapt to new surroundings, especially a club like this one. It depends a lot on the individual player.

Besides which I think Lallana has done okay recently. Yes while its true he hasn't been scoring freely like at the start, he is a major contributor to regaining possession, and puts in huge amounts of work. A number of our players need to improve in the scoring stakes, but hopefully that will come with better players being signed.   

[Reeves]

Bar that miss Lallana was unbelievable yesterday. His ability to receive the ball on the turn is incredible.

[Jayworden99]

Bar that miss Lallana was unbelievable yesterday. His ability to receive the ball on the turn is incredible.

The way he gets out of tight situations with players around him was quality yesterday aswell

[RedForeverTT]

Perhaps we should accept that he will never score enough goals. At 29/30 , if he isn't scoring goals now, he won't be scoring any more in the years ahead. Also the reason why he has been played further away from the goals because there is simply no point playing him in the front 3 as he has not goals in him.

I challenge anyone to name a harder working player for us this season.

[daggerdoo]

He had a great game yesterday and ran his socks off as usual. If we had 3/4 more players like him who get in the opponents face and close them down, we would be laughing.
I don't, however, think it's too hard to believe that he could have shown much more steel/nerve/leadership over the past ten weeks.

[SerbianScouser]

Perhaps we should accept that he will never score enough goals. At 29/30 , if he isn't scoring goals now, he won't be scoring any more in the years ahead. Also the reason why he has been played further away from the goals because there is simply no point playing him in the front 3 as he has not goals in him.

Not sure if serious? Lallana is the highest scoring CM in the league and off the ball nobody even comes close to him. There's also 9 games left to him to improve already an impressive goal return for a CM.

[harryc]

If he only ran 12km he won't have been able to contribute to breaking down as many City attacks so they probably would have score more too.

I wonder how we managed without all this extra running in the past?

[JackWard33]

The way he gets out of tight situations with players around him was quality yesterday aswell

There was a moment in the second half yesterday where the ball came to him and he had zero space with a City player closing in. Literally no way he could keep it and not be tackled. Yet he just opened his right foot, allowed it to run off his instep behind his standing foot and turned away into space - all instantaneously with no time to react. He does this sort of stuff every game - hard to think of a better technical player we've had in terms of two footed control. If he had power and pace he'd be a world beater.

[Xabi Gerrard]

I wonder how we managed without all this extra running in the past?

I can go a lot further back if you need. Good players with good skillsets contributed to us "managing" in the past. Lallana's one of the guy's who's contributing immensely to this team "managing" with his extra running. Enjoy it.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

What's even more intriguing is that 3 years ago he looked knackered at the 60th minute, even at Soton he kept being taken off at that time. People were questioning whether he could play the full 90 minutes. Klopp commeth, Klopp changeth.

[darragh85]

cant be too hard on the guy for the miss.

we lack a finisher though. well we have one but he is never available when needed nowadays.

[clinical]

cant be too hard on the guy for the miss.

we lack a finisher though. well we have one but he is never available when needed nowadays.

Sadly he's also on a major decline this season.

[lgvkarlos]

There was a moment in the second half yesterday where the ball came to him and he had zero space with a City player closing in. Literally no way he could keep it and not be tackled. Yet he just opened his right foot, allowed it to run off his instep behind his standing foot and turned away into space - all instantaneously with no time to react. He does this sort of stuff every game - hard to think of a better technical player we've had in terms of two footed control. If he had power and pace he'd be a world beater.

Yep, he is excellent at receiving the ball under pressure then wriggling away.
Not sure of a top team he couldn't play for, great technique, attitude and a relentless desire to win the ball back.
Think him and Bobby are probably  klopps  favourites.

[ollick]

He might not be getting so goals/assists now which is a bit of a problem but you look at 2 of the goals we scored against Arsenal for example, he did the pass before the assist or hockey assist as it is apparently called which won't show up on the stats. So he still contributing.

Could be wrong but I seem to remember Rafa saying something about Alonso that he was "the player who makes the pass for the team mate to make the assist"

It always stuck with me and I can see the same thing with Lallana.