Author Topic: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Discussion & Sign Up Thread  (Read 23645 times)

Offline mikey_LFC

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Just wondering, are we doing steals before the second round? Can be a fun way to freshen things up and keep the eliminated teams a part of things. Don't mind either way though.

I was indeed thinking this.

Each team gets to pick one player from the third placed side in their group to add to their side. Winner g the group picks first, runner up picks second.

They’d be added to the squad to give people depth and flexibility going later into the draft.

Thoughts?
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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The group winners already have an advantage in the knockouts being drawn against second placed teams. Seems like that would be loading things a bit too far in their favour.

Offline mikey_LFC

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The group winners already have an advantage in the knockouts being drawn against second placed teams. Seems like that would be loading things a bit too far in their favour.

It’d hardly be fair for second place sides to get first pick. Gives the runners up a new opportunity, and we wouldn’t be allowing first round picks to be chosen. Is that a good compromise to make sure it doesn’t over advantage the first places teams.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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An added opportunity to do what, fall further behind? You can make the argument for picks in a knockout context but if you're doing it after the group stage and giving the winners first pick, you may as well go straight to the semi finals.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 10:10:48 am by Sheer Magnetism »

Offline mikey_LFC

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Tables after Matchday 3:

Group A                     P       Pts     VD
Lastrador                   2        6        6
SheerMagnetism         2        3        3
VivaBobbyGraham       2        0       -9

Group B                      P        Pts     VD
Blue Titi                      2         4        3
Tubby                         2         2        0
Defacto                       2         1       -3

Group C                       P        Pts      VD               
PoetryInMotion             2         4        1
Trend                           2         2        0
FlashGordon                 2         1        -1

Group D                       P         Pts       VD
JSteve                          2          6         7
Mikey_lfc                      2          3         1
GerryAttrick                  2          0        -8


Congratulations to everyone who made it through and unlucky to everyone who didn't.

The Quarter Final Draw is as follows:

1. Lastrador v Tubby

2. PoetryInMotion v mikey_LFC

3. Blue Titi v SheerMagnetism

4. JSteve   v Trend

Winner of Quarter Final 1 plays Winner of Quarter Final 2, Winner of Quarter Final 3 plays Winner of Quarter Final 4


Before the Quarter Finals take place each side will be allowed to pick one player from the team who came bottom of their group.

The team who came first in the group will pick first, with the second place teams following up.

No picking players who were in the first round.

Each player is an addition to the squad giving teams flexibility (each squad will have 12 players after this).

Each XI selected from here on out must still fit with the criteria of the initial draft, so:

You must have one player born in the city of the derby they represent

You must have one player who played for both sides of the derby

You can not have more than one player from any side in your starting XI (e.g. You can pick a player who only played for AC Milan, even if you already have someone who only played for AC Milan in your team, but they can't both be selected for the same XI for any future round)

The following players are not allowed to be picked as they were first rounders:

Group A: Eusebio

Group B: Steven Gerrard

Group C: Diego Armando Maradona

Group D: Garrincha

Players must pick from the side who finished bottom of their group, so:

Group A: VivaBobbyGraham

Group B: DeFacto

Group C: FlashGordon

Group D: GerryAttrick


I will also allow players to swap in as many players as they want who were unselected in the draft however, again you must still fit within the selection criteria and bear in mind:

You can not pick an unpicked player from a side who was maxed out in selection (e.g Maldini is still not available as 5 AC Milan players were selected) - if the unselected player who was available at the end of the draft they are fine, any unselected player who was unavailable at the end of the draft is still unavailable


People will have until 10 am Saturday morning (UK Time / BST) to make their picks and changes, and post their subsequent teams to line up for the Quarter Finals. If no team is posted, your current team will be entered into the next round.

To avoid any Theresa May style running down of the clock, first placed teams will have until midday Friday to post their picks. If they haven't picked by then, second placed teams are free to pick, otherwise, second placed teams must wait for the first place sides to pick. First placed teams can still pick after midday Friday but may not got first dibs.

Hope this is all clear, if there are any questions post them and I will clarify.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 11:30:50 am by mikey_LFC »
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Offline mikey_LFC

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An added opportunity to do what, fall further behind? You can make the argument for picks in a knockout context but if you're doing it after the group stage and giving the winners first pick, you may as well go straight to the semi finals.

Added opportunity to adapt your side, otherwise you would have no chance of winning, as you've already lost to the first place side so you can't win the tournament if all stays the same.

You can't give the second place side the opportunity to pick first. You are now facing different sides until the final. The reason for even allowing second place sides to go through is to make it fairer as there was a chance one group may have been harder, this gives sides an opportunity to show that was the case and they would have won a different group.

However, even if you show you would have won a different group, you didn't win your own group so you won't win the overall tournament. Allowing new picks freshens up your side and allows you to strengthen weaker areas of your side which may tip the balance.

Based on this, it should be the teams who come first who have a complaint as teams they've beaten might not be able to beat them, which otherwise wouldn't happen.

There is a high likelihood you won't look to pick the same players as you'll likely have different areas of weaknesses anyway but it at least gives people the opportunity to adapt in the new rounds.

Either way, you can't have the second place team pick first.

I came second in my group as well, so I'm in the same boat.

I've thought about the ramifications of this and believe it is the best way to make sure the rest of the draft maintains interest. It allows drafters to display and different skill set too.

This was always the plan for the draft, I was just waiting to reveal it. It is similar to what has happened in other drafts too.
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Offline mikey_LFC

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An added opportunity to do what, fall further behind? You can make the argument for picks in a knockout context but if you're doing it after the group stage and giving the winners first pick, you may as well go straight to the semi finals.

What would your suggested alternative be? Going further than limiting the first round?
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Offline tubby

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This is so complicated.  I love it.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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What would your suggested alternative be? Going further than limiting the first round?
If people are desperate to expand the teams, the main alternative would involve picking an extra player that hasn't gone in the draft yet.

I don't have a particular gripe with steals in theory, but when two teams have to choose from the same tiny pool of 10 set players and the 1st place team picks first, it adds a decided advantage to a team that already has a draw advantage in the next round. It just unbalances the competition further. If we were doing steals in the knockout round that would be different as each team would be able to pick from their own unique pool.

Offline Betty Blue

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If people are desperate to expand the teams, the main alternative would involve picking an extra player that hasn't gone in the draft yet.

I don't have a particular gripe with steals in theory, but when two teams have to choose from the same tiny pool of 10 set players and the 1st place team picks first, it adds a decided advantage to a team that already has a draw advantage in the next round. It just unbalances the competition further. If we were doing steals in the knockout round that would be different as each team would be able to pick from their own unique pool.


It's just a bit of fun, mate. No-one really cares who wins these things anymore. When people started taking drafting seriously was when it all went to shit. The steals are just meant to shake things up and keep the voting fresh. We've done them before and people seemed to enjoy them.
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Offline mikey_LFC

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If people are desperate to expand the teams, the main alternative would involve picking an extra player that hasn't gone in the draft yet.

I don't have a particular gripe with steals in theory, but when two teams have to choose from the same tiny pool of 10 set players and the 1st place team picks first, it adds a decided advantage to a team that already has a draw advantage in the next round. It just unbalances the competition further. If we were doing steals in the knockout round that would be different as each team would be able to pick from their own unique pool.

I don't think the draw advantage is that significant to be honest, for example Tubby and Betty Blue drew so you playing one or the other is neither here nor there, seems the matches are more decided based on systems v systems rather than individual players.

I'm unconvinced the selecting first advantage either most players have several class players and most teams have different issues so most will debate between a few different players to pick and end up picking someone for reasons unique to their side.
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Offline Betty Blue

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A small suggestion that might appease the disgruntled among us - after the group winners have made their picks, the 2nd placed teams then get to pick from a pool of ALL the knocked out draft teams. The pecking order decided by who had the most points/best goal difference in their group.
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Offline mikey_LFC

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A small suggestion that might appease the disgruntled among us - after the group winners have made their picks, the 2nd placed teams then get to pick from a pool of ALL the knocked out draft teams. The pecking order decided by who had the most points/best goal difference in their group.

That could work, might push the advantage too far the other way. If the issue is pool size, then we could maybe have everyone pick from the whole pool of knocked out teams?

Another suggestion could be we have steals after each round too, limiting the impact of the group winners advantage further as we go through the tournament.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 01:31:58 pm by mikey_LFC »
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Offline Betty Blue

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That could work, might push the advantage too far the other way. If the issue is pool size, then we could maybe have everyone pick from the whole pool of knocked out teams?

I had the impression that Sheer was most concerned that there would be no-one he wanted to pick after Lastrador took his choice - looking at the players he could steal that would make sense. So maybe just giving everyone the same pool of players help things. I don't mind whatever is decided.

You're doing great work organising the draft in any case  :)
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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I had the impression that Sheer was most concerned that there would be no-one he wanted to pick after Lastrador took his choice - looking at the players he could steal that would make sense. So maybe just giving everyone the same pool of players help things. I don't mind whatever is decided.

You're doing great work organising the draft in any case  :)

This!!!!  Just grateful to still be drafting :)

I'll take whatever rules are agreed upon happily.
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Okay screw it, lets change it. Everyone is drafting from the entire pool of the knocked out sides, except first round picks.

The rest of the rules remain the same.

Drafting order will be:

JSteve
Lastrador
Betty Blue
PoetryInMotion
Sheer
Mikey
Trend
Tubby

We will begin the Quarter Finals once everyone has drafted.

Draftable Players:

GK: Oblak, Taffarel, Alisson, Dasayev

Defenders: Kohler, Coentrao, Vidic, Ruggeri, T.Wright, A.Cole, Aldair, Godin, Piszczek, Briegel, Ramos, Campbell, Jardine, Marzolini, Stam, Cafu,

Midfield: Zidane, Xabi Alonso, Simeone, Rivelino, Fabregas, Gilberto Silva, Paulo Falcao, Rui Costa, Stankovic, Cambiasso, Moller

Forwards: Henry, Romario, Barnes, Raul, Drogba, Hugo Sanchez, Johnstone, Rivaldo, Puskas
« Last Edit: April 5, 2019, 10:15:44 am by mikey_LFC »
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Offline tubby

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We still can't draft players from a team we already have represented though, right?
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Offline mikey_LFC

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We still can't draft players from a team we already have represented though, right?

Nope, same rules still apply, only the pool and drafting order has changed.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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That's definitely better - a bigger selection size makes all the difference.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Bastards :D

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Nope, same rules still apply, only the pool and drafting order has changed.

You mean, if I have a player from a club (say Inter), is it that I cannot draft from this pool anyone from Inter, or I can draft but only pick one of my two Inter players in the starting lineup?

Offline mikey_LFC

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You mean, if I have a player from a club (say Inter), is it that I cannot draft from this pool anyone from Inter, or I can draft but only pick one of my two Inter players in the starting lineup?

You can draft an Inter player but you can only play one of them.
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Offline JSteve

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This is a bit complicated. Can someone clarify which players I can draft from?

Edit: Will I still have to have 11 players from 11 different teams or can double up?
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 02:22:05 pm by JSteve »

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Bastards :D

Don't worry, Gerrard remains intact  :D

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Don't worry, Gerrard remains intact  :D

Don't take my Stevie away  ;D

Offline mikey_LFC

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This is a bit complicated. Can someone clarify which players I can draft from?

Edit: Will I still have to have 11 players from 11 different teams or can double up?

All the players you can draft are listed above, you can pick any of them.

You will have 12 players after you pick.

You have to pick players from 11 different sides in your XI.

Your team has to follow the rules of the draft, your squad doesn't.

You have to have someone from the city of the derby, someone who played for both sides and only 1 from any side in your XI.

The teams your players represent are the ones you listed in the selection thread. These can not be changed. So if you'd picked Peter Beardsley and selected him for Liverpool, you couldn't then change him to Everton, he is classed as a Liverpool player. If you then selected John Barnes from the pool of players, you could have him in your squad but he'd be an additional Liverpool player so you could only play one of Barnes and Beardsley, not both.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 02:31:01 pm by mikey_LFC »
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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This is a bit complicated. Can someone clarify which players I can draft from?

Edit: Will I still have to have 11 players from 11 different teams or can double up?


Three layers

1.  Meet the same criteria of the draft
2.  No new players
3.  Improve your team from the three (Viva, Gerry, & Defacto)

For example, I cannot bench Tevez or replace him since he is my local pick --- so even if Henry were to fall to me at pick #7 (I could not exchange Henry for Tevez because I would lack a local pick.

Second example, since I have players from
Pagliuca - Sampdoria
Alberto - Double Pick (Flamengo)
Baresi - AC Milan
Cannavaro - Real Madrid
Schnellinger - Roma
Emerson - Gremio
Tevez - Boca Juniors
Rakitic - Sevilla
Hagi - Galatasaray
Batistuta - R Plate
Eto'o - Everton

So, I cannot add an additional player from the 11 clubs (so that means no Puskas or Zidane for me) - as I have Cannavaro

Complex yes, but in the end there is usually one or two players who fit, and then its done as they will be snapped up pretty quick.
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Offline JSteve

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All the players you can draft are listed above, you can pick any of them.

You will have 12 players after you pick.

You have to pick players from 11 different sides in your XI.

Your team has to follow the rules of the draft, your squad doesn't.

You have to have someone from the city of the derby, someone who played for both sides and only 1 from any side in your XI.


Three layers

1.  Meet the same criteria of the draft
2.  No new players
3.  Improve your team from the three (Viva, Gerry, & Defacto)

For example, I cannot bench Tevez or replace him since he is my local pick --- so even if Henry were to fall to me at pick #7 (I could not exchange Henry for Tevez because I would lack a local pick.

Second example, since I have players from
Pagliuca - Sampdoria
Alberto - Double Pick (Flamengo)
Baresi - AC Milan
Cannavaro - Real Madrid
Schnellinger - Roma
Emerson - Gremio
Tevez - Boca Juniors
Rakitic - Sevilla
Hagi - Galatasaray
Batistuta - R Plate
Eto'o - Everton

So, I cannot add an additional player from the 11 clubs (so that means no Puskas or Zidane for me) - as I have Cannavaro

Complex yes, but in the end there is usually one or two players who fit, and then its done as they will be snapped up pretty quick.

Thanks, making my pick in the picks thread.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Almost right but not quite Trend. Amendments in bold.


Three layers

1.  Meet the same criteria of the draft
2.  No new players
3.  Improve your team from the four (Viva, Gerry, & Defacto & FlashGordon)
 
For example, I cannot bench Tevez or replace him since he is my local pick --- so even if Henry were to fall to me at pick #7 (I could not exchange Henry for Tevez because I would lack a local pick. Unless you pick one of the fours local picks

Second example, since I have players from
Pagliuca - Sampdoria
Alberto - Double Pick (Flamengo)
Baresi - AC Milan
Cannavaro - Real Madrid
Schnellinger - Roma
Emerson - Gremio
Tevez - Boca Juniors
Rakitic - Sevilla
Hagi - Galatasaray
Batistuta - R Plate
Eto'o - Everton

So, I can add a player from one of these 11 clubs (so that means Puskas or Zidane for me) - as I have Cannavaro, but I can not play them at the same time as Cannavaro, i.e. no Zidane and Cannavaro together, one would have to be dropped out the XI

Complex yes, but in the end there is usually one or two players who fit, and then its done as they will be snapped up pretty quick.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 02:39:37 pm by mikey_LFC »
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Offline JSteve

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Made my pick.
In the starting 11, Ozil (Schalke) will be replaced by Zidane (Real Madrid). Will post the lineup, once I get a bit of time to create it.

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Question. Can I pick a player from the same club of the player I’m going to replace in the first eleven? So they can’t play together but I can choose between them depending on the matchup?
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 03:02:04 pm by Lastrador »

Offline mikey_LFC

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Question. Can I pick a player from the same club of the player I’m going to replace in the first eleven? So they can’t play together but I can chose between them depending on the matchup?

Yes
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Almost right but not quite Trend. Amendments in bold.

Thanks mate... Now, I am picking up what you put down!!!
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Made my pick.
In the starting 11, Ozil (Schalke) will be replaced by Zidane (Real Madrid). Will post the lineup, once I get a bit of time to create it.

Ahem... that's a pretty good upgrade. 

Let this be third time I say that Gerry was hard done by....  :lmao
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Offline Betty Blue

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New line-up -

"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

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New line-up -



No wonder you wanted to add a steal round!  Ruud at striker versus Romario -- reverberates through the entire team.  Well out.

 :thumbup
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Offline Betty Blue

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No wonder you wanted to add a steal round!  Ruud at striker versus Romario -- reverberates through the entire team.  Well out.

 :thumbup

I actually didn't even know I could get to Romario until Lastrador blocked off my first choice Henry. Before that I was weighing up Puskas. Thankfully I looked again at Romario's wiki to see he'd been born in Rio  :)
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Excuse all the arrows. Trying to explain my aims.

Tempted to try and go with the Cruyff 3-4-3 Diamond. What do people think?

Schmeichel the sweeper keeper allowing a high line.

Vierchowod the solid defender who sticks in position

Vasovic the ball pkaying sweeper, who pushes forward when space opens up, as he did in Cruyff’s led Ajax side in 1971

Mascherano defensively placed in the role he played for Pep all the way to the European Cup. Covers for Vasovic when he pushes into gaps in midfield.

Xabi Alonso in the role he occupied for Bayern under Pep, dropping in between the centre backs when necessary. The man dictating the play, moving the ball quickly short as necessary and over the top in the channels to the in running Salah when available.

Marcelo operating the wider left midfield role. Expands  the play as necessary. Looks to run wide as he get the ball to keep the pitch wide.

Yaya Toure takes up the centre midfield role, transitioning the ball forward. Making forward runs as gaps appear, covering wide right when Salah moves central, dropping into defensive cover when Mascherano shifts central. Similar to his role in the Barca side.

Zico operates the key play maker role, with his back to goal as a default. Bouncing the ball back to Xabi Alonso and Yaya Toure when pressured to provide them quickly with a forward pass and making late runs after as Zlatan comes short and the ball goes over the top, but on occasion sucking in the defender, rolling them setting up a direct run at goal or a shift left or right to Salah or Ronaldinho.

Salah feeds off the service of Zlatan and Zico in behind from flick ons and Xabi Alonso’s pinpoint passing over the top, as space opens up from the quick passing game.

Ronaldinho is the major target for Zico when he can shift it wide. He is given a run on goal one on one with defenders unless the play deeper and compact. Pulls into the central position when Zlatan drops into the space. As he was utilised best under Rijkaard.

Ibrahimovic looks to push the ball wide and drop into space to create space for Zico and the wingers behind. When he receives the ball he can turn and shoot from deep when not pressured, or play it wide holding his run on the edge of the box for balls to be pulled back.

This system utilises the best skill set of each player, encourages a ball playing game with players all familiar to the roles.

Wim Suuriber is the backup and could be dropped in, in place of Marcelo or Yaya Toure.

How this works against PoetryInMotion’s 4-4-2 Diamond?

The front two and guarded by the back three and Xabi Alonso closed down from all sides.

The midfield is balanced in numbers but the ball playing ability of everyone in my system allows fast moving transitions that would create holes for the attacking minded players to work with. Marcelo and Yaya can expand the width of the play creating even more room for Alonso and Zico.

Defensively my players are able to close down the centre when needed and cover the wing backs if they push forward. If the ball is one back there the wingers will be open to run at the centre backs.

Zico is the focal point of the attacks, everything through him or caused by him, even if that’s because he’s overmarked creating space for others. So it’ll be crucial to balance closing him down and not giving him space to turn, with not overcommiting leaving space in behind for Zico to quickly release the ball back to Alonso to play in behind or wide directly for Ronaldinho and Salah.

The threat posed by the three up front will pin back the full backs and with them the whole side. Defensive hopes will rely on complete discipline, back to the wall defending.

Even with that the movement and pace of the ball moving side to side, back and forth, both long and short would be a nightmare for any side. With his quality across his XI, Poetry stands a chance but it’d be one hell of a performance to keep them out.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2019, 08:37:44 pm by mikey_LFC »
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Trend's new lineup ----   4-2-3-1 Formation

Central Feature of Change -

1. By adding a stronger defensive midfield and playing with two DM's, I can always have four at home and utilize the space on the flanks for productive counter-attacking football.

2.  This allows me to play Tevez and Hagi is a dual role (interchanging at the attacking midfield position based upon whether we have possession or are pressing to get it back).  Tevez is very good at coming back/pressing to win the ball back, so we keep him in the center of pitch when we lose it for that reason.   Hagi is a false winger whose real intention is to play attacking mid from the right flank. 

This is because Hagi is brilliant in finding the last pass or playable space or even a long range bomb. Thus Tevez mans the right flank during build up play as well as offensive transition.  And defensively, they switch.

The key here is to get our 3 attackers (Eto'o, Tevez, & Hagi) central, connected to, and combining with Batigol in preferred positions. 

The JSteve Match
Going up against Dalglish, Torres and Zidane as a front three is not easy, but we can match their pace, strength.  The question becomes how many join in their attack and how much risk do they take to break our back four and Simeone down?   If they throw numbers forward, we have the players to really punish them.   Two finishers who are good in the air in Batigol/Eto'o (restart garbage goals) and two clever little fire hydrants in (Tevez and Hagi) to dribble, find space or take an unexpected shot.

I expect a tight game.  Maybe have Simeone mutter something to Zidane about his mother? 

Here are my five penalty takers


1.  Carlos Alberto
2.  Batistuta
3.  Baresi
4.  Cannavaro
5.  Hagi




Cannavaro & Baresi know how to handle Zidane

THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline PoetryInMotion

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I actually didn't even know I could get to Romario until Lastrador blocked off my first choice Henry. Before that I was weighing up Puskas. Thankfully I looked again at Romario's wiki to see he'd been born in Rio  :)

Yeah, your third choice, but my first  :(

Upgraded my CB instead..